| 14. Mine might have been one of those insensitive replies. |
|
And I only wish I could apologize to you in person.
But this will have to do.
Here's my apology and I hope you can accept it, housewolf.
Sonoman
|
| -Regarding the link between oral sex & oral cancer that posted here yesterday, please read this story |
housewolf |
Feb-02-11 03:36 PM |
#0 |
-
recommend |
xchrom |
Feb-02-11 03:39 PM |
#1 |
 -
Thank you, Xchrom |
housewolf |
Feb-02-11 08:37 PM |
#70 |
-
typo. |
Maru Kitteh |
Feb-02-11 03:44 PM |
#2 |
 -
It's the OP's story so it's all the same in the end. nt |
JTFrog |
Feb-02-11 03:50 PM |
#4 |
  -
I know, but it's heartfelt and she put a lot of work into it. I wanted to help. |
Maru Kitteh |
Feb-02-11 04:08 PM |
#12 |
 -
Then send a private IM |
LynneSin |
Feb-03-11 06:37 AM |
#111 |
 -
When people remain in one forum, PM's may go unseen for hours or more - well beyone the edit period. |
Maru Kitteh |
Feb-03-11 12:37 PM |
#149 |
 -
That's not true -you get a big red bar across the top of DU forum saying you have a PM |
LynneSin |
Feb-03-11 03:34 PM |
#169 |
 -
No, I do not. |
Maru Kitteh |
Feb-03-11 06:26 PM |
#183 |
 -
i do. stay in gd and i will pm you..... test. nt |
seabeyond |
Feb-03-11 07:17 PM |
#189 |
 -
HOLY COW. Thanks seabeyond! |
Maru Kitteh |
Feb-03-11 07:44 PM |
#192 |
 -
Thank you! |
housewolf |
Feb-02-11 04:24 PM |
#25 |
-
Again, thank you for sharing your story. |
demmiblue |
Feb-02-11 03:48 PM |
#3 |
 -
Yes. |
A-Schwarzenegger |
Feb-02-11 03:57 PM |
#7 |
 -
Thank you for your good wishes |
housewolf |
Feb-02-11 04:27 PM |
#27 |
-
oops, I meant "young women", not "your women" |
housewolf |
Feb-02-11 08:29 PM |
#68 |
-
And yet many DUers think the HPV vaccination is evil. |
Odin2005 |
Feb-02-11 03:54 PM |
#5 |
 -
+1 |
xchrom |
Feb-02-11 04:16 PM |
#18 |
 -
blah blah all vaxes are giant corporate money schemes blah blah blah - it's ignorance that kills |
Maru Kitteh |
Feb-02-11 04:37 PM |
#35 |
 -
I posted against it (caveat alert) |
MedicalAdmin |
Feb-02-11 07:02 PM |
#56 |
  -
In the United States ALL girls and boys are likely to encounter the virus. I disagree. I think all |
Maru Kitteh |
Feb-02-11 07:18 PM |
#59 |
   -
Agreed. By the time a vaccine makes it through clinical trials, it's |
mistertrickster |
Feb-03-11 12:28 PM |
#146 |
  -
Our children's doctor believes the same... |
Dappleganger |
Feb-02-11 07:22 PM |
#60 |
   -
Why not the girls? |
boppers |
Feb-03-11 01:56 AM |
#93 |
    -
We have boys too... |
Dappleganger |
Feb-03-11 11:15 AM |
#135 |
   -
3 of them will likely encounter HPV. You are more comfortable gambling with their lives and health |
Maru Kitteh |
Feb-03-11 11:34 AM |
#138 |
   -
I know the risks. |
Dappleganger |
Feb-03-11 11:42 AM |
#141 |
    -
Barring extreme circumstances I fail to see how any rational being |
Maru Kitteh |
Feb-03-11 12:30 PM |
#147 |
   -
That's a judgment call. |
Dappleganger |
Feb-03-11 12:35 PM |
#148 |
   -
You may not be an irrational person and still have the appearance of not approaching this subject |
Maru Kitteh |
Feb-03-11 12:50 PM |
#150 |
   -
Argh. Wrong place. n/t |
Maru Kitteh |
Feb-03-11 12:56 PM |
#152 |
   -
The problem here is that there are virtually no longitudinal |
MedicalAdmin |
Feb-03-11 02:53 PM |
#164 |
   -
Does your clinic reject evidence-based medicine? Longitudinal studies on the effects of wearing |
Maru Kitteh |
Feb-03-11 07:38 PM |
#190 |
   -
Arrrgggh ! wrong place again :( |
Maru Kitteh |
Feb-03-11 07:41 PM |
#191 |
   -
We are all about peer review. |
MedicalAdmin |
Feb-04-11 07:02 AM |
#202 |
   -
Let me tell you what I hear you saying, I don't want to misunderstand you. |
Maru Kitteh |
Feb-04-11 01:25 PM |
#206 |
   -
No, it isn't accurate. |
MedicalAdmin |
Feb-04-11 01:53 PM |
#207 |
   -
Good lord. That was like pulling teeth. |
Maru Kitteh |
Feb-04-11 05:00 PM |
#210 |
   -
Because the dangers of not getting HPV outweigh the risks of getting it? |
mistertrickster |
Feb-03-11 08:49 AM |
#120 |
  -
We have given them ever other vaccine recommended... |
Dappleganger |
Feb-03-11 11:14 AM |
#134 |
  -
Okay, makes sense . . . nt |
mistertrickster |
Feb-03-11 12:25 PM |
#145 |
  -
70% of sexually active people have confirmed strains of HPV |
tavalon |
Feb-03-11 04:33 AM |
#98 |
 -
Is it the strain or is it the way the virus reacts in the body? |
mistertrickster |
Feb-03-11 08:53 AM |
#122 |
  -
Once your daughter is laying there dying with cancer I"m sure that will be an important distinction. |
Maru Kitteh |
Feb-03-11 11:29 AM |
#137 |
   -
What is it with you? Btw, it's "lying" not "laying." Lay is transitive. nt |
mistertrickster |
Feb-03-11 12:23 PM |
#144 |
  -
Well thanks for the typo/usage tip - but what about addressing the content? Did I misunderstand you |
Maru Kitteh |
Feb-03-11 01:00 PM |
#155 |
  -
I'm all for the vaccination. We should give it free as a public service |
mistertrickster |
Feb-03-11 03:31 PM |
#168 |
  -
I'm sorry I misunderstood you! I agree that the more we know about how HPV-->cancer the better |
Maru Kitteh |
Feb-03-11 06:42 PM |
#186 |
  -
thank you . . . smiley pals below-- |
mistertrickster |
Feb-04-11 06:33 PM |
#211 |
  -
See my other reply further down. |
tavalon |
Feb-03-11 06:06 PM |
#179 |
  -
That's why this and all cancers are multifactorial |
tavalon |
Feb-03-11 06:19 PM |
#182 |
  -
Certain strains are more linked with cancer |
tavalon |
Feb-03-11 06:43 PM |
#187 |
 -
correlation vs. causality. |
MedicalAdmin |
Feb-03-11 03:05 PM |
#165 |
 -
We're leaving out the fact that people are now genotyping these cancers |
tavalon |
Feb-03-11 06:05 PM |
#178 |
 -
I have a son who was severly damaged by his vaccinations and will never live an independent life |
tavalon |
Feb-03-11 04:30 AM |
#97 |
  -
Oh Tavalon, I'm so sorry about your son |
housewolf |
Feb-03-11 01:36 PM |
#158 |
 -
We love him to pieces |
tavalon |
Feb-03-11 06:16 PM |
#180 |
 -
i think MANDATED hpv vaccine is wrong. |
tomp |
Feb-03-11 05:44 AM |
#108 |
 -
I thought only right wing |
Enthusiast |
Feb-03-11 07:16 AM |
#112 |
  -
Look at our Health forum to see the kooks here. |
Odin2005 |
Feb-03-11 08:39 AM |
#119 |
 -
Health forum? We have let the anti-vax nutters run loose all over this place |
AngryAmish |
Feb-03-11 02:47 PM |
#163 |
 -
That they do. |
HuckleB |
Feb-03-11 03:50 PM |
#173 |
-
Sweet housewolf! |
hippywife |
Feb-02-11 03:57 PM |
#6 |
 -
gladly done; K&R |
inna |
Feb-02-11 04:00 PM |
#8 |
  -
Thank you so much, inna! |
hippywife |
Feb-02-11 04:01 PM |
#9 |
   -
you're more than welcome and thank you for your great post, btw! |
inna |
Feb-02-11 04:38 PM |
#37 |
  -
Nice to meet you, inna! |
hippywife |
Feb-02-11 05:10 PM |
#46 |
  -
Thanks for your support, Inna |
housewolf |
Feb-02-11 08:34 PM |
#69 |
  -
delete, wrong place |
inna |
Feb-02-11 04:21 PM |
#23 |
 -
i gave her a rec miss hippywife. |
xchrom |
Feb-02-11 04:02 PM |
#10 |
  -
Princess Spice to the rescue! |
hippywife |
Feb-02-11 04:17 PM |
#19 |
   -
fist bumps to my peeps! |
xchrom |
Feb-02-11 04:19 PM |
#22 |
  -
... |
hippywife |
Feb-02-11 04:27 PM |
#26 |
  -
HW, they let you out of the cooking forum? |
Beacool |
Feb-02-11 08:06 PM |
#63 |
  -
Hey there, B! |
hippywife |
Feb-02-11 08:08 PM |
#64 |
  -
Nice seeing you too. |
Beacool |
Feb-02-11 08:11 PM |
#65 |
  -
Why, yes you should! |
hippywife |
Feb-02-11 08:27 PM |
#67 |
  -
No, I haven't. |
Beacool |
Feb-02-11 08:41 PM |
#71 |
  -
I don't think we'll be able to say that in a few years |
tavalon |
Feb-03-11 04:37 AM |
#99 |
 -
I understand the sentiment, tavalon, but we were doing the same things BEFORE the pill |
bertman |
Feb-03-11 11:47 AM |
#142 |
  -
I agree. Unconstrained sex activity isn't new behavior. |
hippywife |
Feb-03-11 12:04 PM |
#143 |
  -
And now we're seeing those cancers |
tavalon |
Feb-03-11 06:01 PM |
#177 |
 -
So my question is what is causing them? Oral sex has been going down (sorry) |
bertman |
Feb-03-11 09:59 PM |
#194 |
 -
Do you have some documentation for that claim about oral sex? |
tavalon |
Feb-04-11 03:22 AM |
#198 |
 -
How about the Kama Sutra? It was written over 1400 years ago. |
bertman |
Feb-05-11 11:48 AM |
#215 |
 -
I asked my gyn about Farrah's cancer |
Sugarcoated |
Feb-04-11 01:26 AM |
#196 |
 -
Yeah, I don't think anyone chose to be that graphic, but yeah, that's |
tavalon |
Feb-04-11 06:29 AM |
#201 |
 -
Oh, thank you, thank you tavalon for helping me navigate through this |
Sugarcoated |
Feb-04-11 10:41 AM |
#204 |
 -
If he's been around and was around without a condom |
tavalon |
Feb-04-11 01:04 PM |
#205 |
  -
I don't think he'd been around a whole lot |
Sugarcoated |
Feb-04-11 08:34 PM |
#212 |
 -
I have a theory |
tavalon |
Feb-05-11 04:03 AM |
#213 |
 -
It's really important that you know that even though I know some information, |
tavalon |
Feb-05-11 04:08 AM |
#214 |
 -
done! |
Phentex |
Feb-02-11 04:08 PM |
#11 |
  -
Thank you, Phentex! |
hippywife |
Feb-02-11 04:17 PM |
#20 |
  -
I appreciate it to! |
housewolf |
Feb-02-11 04:32 PM |
#29 |
 -
Thanks for your support, HW! |
housewolf |
Feb-02-11 04:30 PM |
#28 |
  -
As does yours to me, sweetheart. |
hippywife |
Feb-02-11 04:41 PM |
#40 |
 -
Done deal. |
pengillian101 |
Feb-02-11 10:42 PM |
#83 |
-
I missed the original post... |
Phentex |
Feb-02-11 04:10 PM |
#13 |
-
Mine might have been one of those insensitive replies. |
Sonoman |
Feb-02-11 04:13 PM |
#14 |
 -
Good man. |
A-Schwarzenegger |
Feb-02-11 04:15 PM |
#16 |
 -
i read the thread, and all the humor and i didnt get it. but YOU |
seabeyond |
Feb-02-11 04:15 PM |
#17 |
  -
... |
Sonoman |
Feb-02-11 04:36 PM |
#34 |
 -
man. |
seabeyond |
Feb-02-11 04:46 PM |
#41 |
 -
Thank you, Sonoman! |
hippywife |
Feb-02-11 04:19 PM |
#21 |
  -
I sit here in the sunshine... |
Sonoman |
Feb-02-11 04:35 PM |
#32 |
 -
Hey, we've all been there, hon. |
hippywife |
Feb-02-11 04:51 PM |
#43 |
 -
That has to be one of the most honorable statements I have EVER read. |
Zoeisright |
Feb-03-11 09:23 AM |
#125 |
 -
+1 with a smile n/t |
Maru Kitteh |
Feb-03-11 07:56 PM |
#193 |
 -
Thank you, Sonoman |
housewolf |
Feb-02-11 04:21 PM |
#24 |
-
housewolf... |
Sonoman |
Feb-02-11 04:37 PM |
#36 |
 -
Very sweet, Sonoman |
housewolf |
Feb-02-11 05:53 PM |
#49 |
-
I didn't see the original article or the reaction here |
tavalon |
Feb-03-11 04:40 AM |
#100 |
-
thank you housewolf. nt |
seabeyond |
Feb-02-11 04:13 PM |
#15 |
-
Boorish reply based on a missed sentence or two. Sorry. |
cliffordu |
Feb-02-11 04:35 PM |
#30 |
-
gladly knr |
Maine-ah |
Feb-02-11 04:35 PM |
#31 |
-
Deleted sub-thread |
Name removed |
Feb-02-11 04:36 PM |
#33 |
-
You are very brave and you have my admiration.... |
cynatnite |
Feb-02-11 04:39 PM |
#38 |
-
oh wolfie, no words |
NMDemDist2 |
Feb-02-11 04:39 PM |
#39 |
 -
Thanks, NMDem |
housewolf |
Feb-02-11 07:03 PM |
#57 |
-
ahh sweetie, sorry it's been so rough |
NMDemDist2 |
Feb-02-11 10:10 PM |
#80 |
-
Thank you for sharing your personal story with us. |
myrna minx |
Feb-02-11 04:49 PM |
#42 |
-
Thanks for putting a human face on this terrible disease. |
undeterred |
Feb-02-11 05:00 PM |
#44 |
 -
Actually, most people die quickly from the head and neck and cervical cancers caused by HPV |
tavalon |
Feb-03-11 04:42 AM |
#101 |
-
Dear HW, thank you for posting your story. You are coming |
japple |
Feb-02-11 05:05 PM |
#45 |
-
how frustrating... that your life has been so altered by something that happened 35 years ago |
renate |
Feb-02-11 05:25 PM |
#47 |
 -
Yes, definitely read up on the link between HPV and oral cancer |
housewolf |
Feb-02-11 09:07 PM |
#73 |
-
You are brave and tough to endure what you have had to |
yellerpup |
Feb-02-11 05:44 PM |
#48 |
 -
Thanks, Yellerpup |
housewolf |
Feb-02-11 06:27 PM |
#52 |
-
You are right to speak out. You have first-hand wisdom |
yellerpup |
Feb-02-11 08:19 PM |
#66 |
-
You are amazing |
tavalon |
Feb-03-11 04:44 AM |
#102 |
-
Thank you for all your supportive and kind comments, Tavalon |
housewolf |
Feb-03-11 01:46 PM |
#159 |
-
Yes, I would be honored to call you a friend. |
tavalon |
Feb-03-11 05:57 PM |
#176 |
-
I alway knew there was something |
Tesha |
Feb-02-11 06:00 PM |
#50 |
 -
Oh Tesha - |
housewolf |
Feb-02-11 06:42 PM |
#54 |
-
I understand the backing away so well. I did the same thing when I belonged to a small |
pacalo |
Feb-03-11 03:46 PM |
#172 |
-
and all the knowledge you could have shared |
seabeyond |
Feb-03-11 05:54 PM |
#175 |
-
Thanks so much, seabeyond. |
pacalo |
Feb-04-11 12:54 AM |
#195 |
-
Hey.... |
PCIntern |
Feb-02-11 06:08 PM |
#51 |
 -
That's very strange that you PM didn't go through |
housewolf |
Feb-02-11 09:15 PM |
#74 |
 -
Hey |
tavalon |
Feb-03-11 04:46 AM |
#103 |
-
Why, thank you... |
PCIntern |
Feb-03-11 05:12 AM |
#106 |
-
Your welcome |
tavalon |
Feb-03-11 05:15 AM |
#107 |
-
Thank you. |
emilyg |
Feb-02-11 06:35 PM |
#53 |
-
Thank you for sharing your |
femrap |
Feb-02-11 06:54 PM |
#55 |
-
Thank you for telling your story. |
thanks_imjustlurking |
Feb-02-11 07:10 PM |
#58 |
-
Thank you for sharing your story. |
Dappleganger |
Feb-02-11 07:23 PM |
#61 |
-
A co worker, who was also a friend, died of tongue cancer last March at 44. |
Beacool |
Feb-02-11 07:50 PM |
#62 |
-
I'm glad that you reposted. |
abq e streeter |
Feb-02-11 08:44 PM |
#72 |
 -
I'm actually glad I missed the first one |
tavalon |
Feb-03-11 04:50 AM |
#104 |
-
Thank you for your important post. |
mahina |
Feb-02-11 09:16 PM |
#75 |
-
Thank you |
TuxedoKat |
Feb-02-11 09:23 PM |
#76 |
-
Hopefully will make people think better. Hang in there! |
webDude |
Feb-02-11 09:36 PM |
#77 |
-
Whoa, this is the most amazing and personal thing I've ever read .. bless you |
likesmountains 52 |
Feb-02-11 09:47 PM |
#78 |
-
Dear housewolf |
Tsiyu |
Feb-02-11 10:07 PM |
#79 |
-
Hugs and K&R |
pengillian101 |
Feb-02-11 10:26 PM |
#81 |
-
I don't have words either, sweetie. You are very much loved by all of us C&B freaks |
Lucinda |
Feb-02-11 10:29 PM |
#82 |
-
Deleted message |
Name removed |
Feb-02-11 11:22 PM |
#84 |
-
I read the other day about the world's first trachea transplant. |
Liberty Belle |
Feb-02-11 11:25 PM |
#85 |
-
Deleted message |
Name removed |
Feb-02-11 11:32 PM |
#86 |
 -
..I'm going to go with... |
AtheistCrusader |
Feb-02-11 11:56 PM |
#89 |
-
So sorry about what you had to experience housewolf |
Sugarcoated |
Feb-02-11 11:50 PM |
#87 |
 -
Sugarcoated - symptoms |
housewolf |
Feb-03-11 02:03 PM |
#160 |
-
Thank you housewolf. for sharing that . . . |
Sugarcoated |
Feb-04-11 01:33 AM |
#197 |
-
My original post |
tpsbmam |
Feb-02-11 11:54 PM |
#88 |
-
This is another BIG reason to leagalize Sex Workers |
Mojeoux |
Feb-03-11 12:05 AM |
#90 |
 -
That's a whole other topic and yes, it's a really important thing |
tavalon |
Feb-03-11 04:52 AM |
#105 |
-
Thank you for sharing, very powerful. |
grahamhgreen |
Feb-03-11 01:10 AM |
#91 |
-
K&R. |
Kurovski |
Feb-03-11 01:28 AM |
#92 |
-
I didn't know what to say, so I said this: |
boppers |
Feb-03-11 02:20 AM |
#94 |
-
Yes, we have just recently been figuring out that strains of HPV |
tavalon |
Feb-03-11 04:19 AM |
#95 |
-
Damn, I only read half of your post before putting my STD instructor information on here |
tavalon |
Feb-03-11 04:27 AM |
#96 |
 -
all your posts. and boppers. thank you for all this information. |
seabeyond |
Feb-03-11 06:06 AM |
#110 |
-
You are wise, Seabeyond |
housewolf |
Feb-03-11 02:13 PM |
#161 |
-
I am sorry housewolf. |
lonestarnot |
Feb-03-11 05:54 AM |
#109 |
-
Thank you for sharing this.... |
ProfessionalLeftist |
Feb-03-11 07:35 AM |
#113 |
-
I'm sorry for the suffering and hope living with the remaining effects |
mmonk |
Feb-03-11 07:37 AM |
#114 |
-
Thanks you for sharing your story. |
cate94 |
Feb-03-11 07:53 AM |
#115 |
-
Thank you so much for your post |
onlyadream |
Feb-03-11 08:24 AM |
#116 |
-
Rec |
cleverusername |
Feb-03-11 08:29 AM |
#117 |
-
I'm not giving up my blowjobs! Quit trying to scare me! |
CLANG |
Feb-03-11 08:36 AM |
#118 |
 -
scare you? you mean, you giving blow jobs, right? educate. if that scares you |
seabeyond |
Feb-03-11 09:09 AM |
#123 |
  -
I don't give them, I receive them from my wife. |
CLANG |
Feb-03-11 09:29 AM |
#126 |
 -
seemed to be all about you.... as you received, oh so scared. well, really wouldnt |
seabeyond |
Feb-03-11 09:35 AM |
#127 |
 -
And as long as both of you were virgins from the beginning |
tavalon |
Feb-03-11 06:33 PM |
#185 |
 -
Would you like me to tell you how you can still have your blowjobs and protect your partner |
tavalon |
Feb-03-11 06:31 PM |
#184 |
-
Very very powerful and impressive post.... |
hlthe2b |
Feb-03-11 08:50 AM |
#121 |
-
Sorry this happened, housewolf. Thanks for posting for those who didn't know |
raccoon |
Feb-03-11 09:15 AM |
#124 |
-
I'm so sorry |
wryter2000 |
Feb-03-11 10:10 AM |
#128 |
-
Again, my family's story |
derby378 |
Feb-03-11 10:14 AM |
#129 |
 -
. |
seabeyond |
Feb-03-11 10:24 AM |
#130 |
-
It's forced me to think about stuff I take for granted |
derby378 |
Feb-03-11 10:38 AM |
#131 |
-
Out of respect for the girls |
madokie |
Feb-03-11 10:46 AM |
#132 |
-
while there is no excuse for insensitivity |
Tsiyu |
Feb-03-11 10:56 AM |
#133 |
-
. |
Coyote_Bandit |
Feb-03-11 11:24 AM |
#136 |
-
I don't see what could be funny about this. |
Shining Jack |
Feb-03-11 11:36 AM |
#139 |
-
A Great Argument For Male Circumcision Since Their Partners Are Less Likely To Get HPV |
DemocratSinceBirth |
Feb-03-11 11:37 AM |
#140 |
 -
I suspect... |
Chan790 |
Feb-03-11 12:55 PM |
#151 |
  -
I Don't Think Most Males Or Females Like The Taste Of Latex |
DemocratSinceBirth |
Feb-03-11 12:59 PM |
#154 |
 -
No, I mean I support an infant circ. ban. |
Chan790 |
Feb-03-11 01:12 PM |
#156 |
 -
"the partners of the unfortunate woman in this article" |
housewolf |
Feb-04-11 04:17 PM |
#209 |
 -
.... Are the rates of oral hpv much higher in Europe? |
krabigirl |
Feb-03-11 03:08 PM |
#166 |
 -
Female Condom |
tavalon |
Feb-03-11 06:49 PM |
#188 |
-
+! |
DemocratSinceBirth |
Feb-04-11 06:02 AM |
#199 |
-
I've spent my adult life seeing that as infant mutilation |
tavalon |
Feb-04-11 06:24 AM |
#200 |
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+2 |
DemocratSinceBirth |
Feb-04-11 09:19 AM |
#203 |
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Wow! |
blackspade |
Feb-03-11 12:57 PM |
#153 |
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Thank you for having the courage to post this. |
zanana1 |
Feb-03-11 01:36 PM |
#157 |
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You're one very special woman. You're very brave. |
Stinky The Clown |
Feb-03-11 02:43 PM |
#162 |
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Oh, housewolf... |
pacalo |
Feb-03-11 03:24 PM |
#167 |
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TY housewolf! Approx 20 million Americans have HPV & don't know it |
girl_interrupted |
Feb-03-11 03:36 PM |
#170 |
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Thank you SO much for that info about vaccinating boys and men for HPV! |
housewolf |
Feb-04-11 03:58 PM |
#208 |
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For Housewolf . . . |
moreland01 |
Feb-03-11 03:36 PM |
#171 |
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Thank you for sharing your story. |
HuckleB |
Feb-03-11 03:51 PM |
#174 |
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Thank you for sharing your story. |
bigwillq |
Feb-03-11 06:17 PM |
#181 |