| 167. You speak of party stances and I say |
|
it is the people, the ones that live in the cities, join unions, teachers, people that have empathy are the ones that are the party and not the leaders. It is not the elected officials that is the government, but the people. The people are the true party and government. It seems that this is forgotten by the party leaders and the elected officials. Until that mindset changes then it will be almost impossible to move forward.
|
| -A 9 yr DU journey...going from too moderate to too liberal to fit in. |
madfloridian |
Dec-07-11 08:16 PM |
#0 |
-
it's called growing. |
barbtries |
Dec-07-11 08:19 PM |
#1 |
 -
+1 |
rtassi |
Dec-08-11 04:04 PM |
#151 |
 -
Growing ... being fickle... |
iamthebandfanman |
Dec-13-11 06:12 PM |
#205 |
-
I enjoy and appreciate your posts very much. |
yardwork |
Dec-07-11 08:22 PM |
#2 |
-
Love ya, mad... |
tnlefty |
Dec-07-11 08:22 PM |
#3 |
-
Very good analysis of actuality, or truth. I don't know where to go either. |
northoftheborder |
Dec-07-11 08:23 PM |
#4 |
 -
+1 for integrity nt |
tblue |
Dec-08-11 01:04 PM |
#129 |
 -
It would be a huge mistake .... |
defendandprotect |
Dec-08-11 03:45 PM |
#148 |
-
I tend to agree. The fartherest left (socialists) |
socialist_n_TN |
Dec-10-11 08:00 PM |
#193 |
-
it has gone beyond humoring them into pandering to them |
SwampG8r |
Dec-31-11 12:12 AM |
#212 |
-
K&R |
EFerrari |
Dec-07-11 08:27 PM |
#5 |
-
I for one appreciate your point of view, madfloridian.. |
Fumesucker |
Dec-07-11 08:31 PM |
#6 |
-
I've always been pretty far out on the freak-side |
malthaussen |
Dec-07-11 08:32 PM |
#7 |
-
I started out too liberal but I've learned to be more, um... |
mike_c |
Dec-07-11 08:33 PM |
#8 |
-
good post |
quinnox |
Dec-07-11 08:38 PM |
#9 |
-
Your posts were some of the first I read when I landed |
Cleita |
Dec-07-11 08:42 PM |
#10 |
-
I am surprised I am here considering how many posts I've had |
Rex |
Dec-07-11 08:44 PM |
#11 |
-
I think that politics, as a whole, have shifted further right in the last 10 + years |
The Genealogist |
Dec-07-11 08:46 PM |
#12 |
 -
My biggest nightmare |
malthaussen |
Dec-07-11 09:21 PM |
#15 |
  -
Do yourself a favor and look up the actual numbers for FoxNews |
Bluenorthwest |
Dec-08-11 07:11 AM |
#82 |
 -
Prosperity makes conservatives. |
aquart |
Dec-08-11 01:49 AM |
#49 |
  -
But so does fear |
quakerboy |
Dec-08-11 04:36 AM |
#63 |
 -
So, if the nation is so far to the right-- |
eridani |
Dec-08-11 04:34 AM |
#62 |
  -
Pick an issue |
quakerboy |
Dec-08-11 04:39 AM |
#64 |
   -
The overall trend is to supporting gay rights |
eridani |
Dec-08-11 06:17 AM |
#72 |
  -
Have we won the popular vote on that one in any state so far? |
quakerboy |
Dec-09-11 09:13 PM |
#189 |
  -
Answers: a) They benefit personally and b) they don't pay personally. |
Pholus |
Dec-08-11 07:07 AM |
#81 |
 -
80% progressive opinions among Dems is pretty good |
eridani |
Dec-08-11 03:09 PM |
#141 |
 -
Well, I wouldn't interpret it as strongly as you do. |
Pholus |
Dec-08-11 08:36 PM |
#174 |
 -
This is also true. Remember that these are people who commonly say |
eridani |
Dec-09-11 06:22 AM |
#182 |
 -
I think a lot of Americans are more liberal than they realize, |
CrispyQ |
Dec-08-11 10:11 AM |
#104 |
 -
Actually, not -- this is a liberal nation -- and OWS is the proof of that -- !! |
defendandprotect |
Dec-08-11 03:55 PM |
#149 |
  -
Glad I missed Cowan on C-Span. Yes, they do control the party now. |
madfloridian |
Dec-22-11 06:52 PM |
#206 |
 -
The political parties have shifted to the right, but NOT the public |
sabrina 1 |
Dec-08-11 04:32 PM |
#157 |
  -
Public opinion on those issues does a complete 180 after Frank Luntz gets done with re-wording |
Hippo_Tron |
Dec-09-11 12:13 AM |
#180 |
  -
Well said. |
madfloridian |
Dec-10-11 10:44 AM |
#190 |
   -
I always just thought of myself as a democrat |
newspeak |
Dec-10-11 11:14 AM |
#191 |
  -
with the help of a corporate media |
newspeak |
Dec-12-11 08:29 AM |
#196 |
 -
The party made a huge lurch to the right when Obama was sworn in. |
Marr |
Dec-12-11 11:56 AM |
#200 |
-
Brava! |
Stinky The Clown |
Dec-07-11 09:13 PM |
#13 |
-
Kick and recommend and sympathize. |
progressoid |
Dec-07-11 09:18 PM |
#14 |
-
I have been going to socialist meetups. |
immoderate |
Dec-07-11 09:31 PM |
#16 |
-
K&R |
Solly Mack |
Dec-07-11 09:34 PM |
#17 |
-
rec., dammit! |
KG |
Dec-07-11 09:37 PM |
#18 |
-
Well, whatever you are, you are an esteemed, valued, Democratic wonder n/t |
UTUSN |
Dec-07-11 09:40 PM |
#19 |
-
There is something indeed wrong with this picture, but it is inherent in our system. |
BzaDem |
Dec-07-11 09:46 PM |
#20 |
 -
The de facto |
sulphurdunn |
Dec-08-11 05:39 AM |
#68 |
-
You are correct. The Washington crowd likes to pretend that |
Bluenorthwest |
Dec-08-11 07:04 AM |
#80 |
-
It might have had to do with this a year ago. Not now. |
BzaDem |
Dec-08-11 04:04 PM |
#152 |
-
I have to say that you are one of the DU'ers who has literally laid the groundwork |
Horse with no Name |
Dec-07-11 10:02 PM |
#21 |
 -
Nice words. I guess I have reached a point in life where only truth matters. |
madfloridian |
Dec-13-11 12:16 PM |
#203 |
-
Well done! |
Warpy |
Dec-07-11 10:03 PM |
#22 |
-
Kick & Rec! |
jannyk |
Dec-07-11 10:12 PM |
#23 |
-
Thank you for this post |
MedleyMisty |
Dec-07-11 10:12 PM |
#24 |
-
What are you - some kind of danged pinko?! |
man4allcats |
Dec-07-11 10:25 PM |
#25 |
-
I love your post. |
femrap |
Dec-07-11 10:30 PM |
#26 |
 -
I'm with you on the "none of the above" thing. |
kath |
Dec-08-11 12:30 AM |
#43 |
-
I am with you both on 'none of the above'. nt |
SammyWinstonJack |
Dec-08-11 09:05 AM |
#98 |
-
K&R! Thanks for teaching us so much here at D.U. |
midnight |
Dec-07-11 10:45 PM |
#27 |
-
Please stay |
Ken Burch |
Dec-07-11 10:47 PM |
#28 |
 -
Couldn't be truer -- but do you see the depth of intimidation |
defendandprotect |
Dec-08-11 04:08 PM |
#154 |
-
We must have taken the same train, |
mmonk |
Dec-07-11 10:52 PM |
#29 |
-
your posts are great |
RainDog |
Dec-07-11 10:55 PM |
#30 |
-
I love reading your posts and journals |
Irishonly |
Dec-07-11 11:16 PM |
#31 |
-
K&R. nt |
OnyxCollie |
Dec-07-11 11:25 PM |
#32 |
-
k&r |
Starry Messenger |
Dec-07-11 11:40 PM |
#33 |
-
Recommend |
xchrom |
Dec-07-11 11:42 PM |
#34 |
-
You are one of my favorite DUers, MadFloridian |
clyrc |
Dec-07-11 11:54 PM |
#35 |
-
Very true. And I think the party has bounded centerward sometime during the Clinton Presidency. |
Fearless |
Dec-08-11 12:00 AM |
#36 |
-
I've been following your education posts. Thanks. |
mojowork_n |
Dec-08-11 12:03 AM |
#37 |
-
I completely understand the feeling. |
blackspade |
Dec-08-11 12:03 AM |
#38 |
-
some of us are here for the "Democratic" and some for the "underground" |
lumberjack_jeff |
Dec-08-11 12:03 AM |
#39 |
-
Take heart Mad....this place would not be the same without you |
ooglymoogly |
Dec-08-11 12:06 AM |
#40 |
 -
America wants a nation run according to very liberal standards -- |
defendandprotect |
Dec-08-11 03:59 PM |
# |
-
"Die Revolution frisst ihre Kinder auf" |
DFW |
Dec-08-11 12:07 AM |
#41 |
-
Mad, Mad, Mad, Mad. |
Jakes Progress |
Dec-08-11 12:20 AM |
#42 |
-
I've been there with you. |
ellisonz |
Dec-08-11 12:32 AM |
#44 |
-
The older I get the more liberal I get... when I move back to FL, we can be a party of |
JCMach1 |
Dec-08-11 12:57 AM |
#45 |
-
A fantastic post from one of DU's best. Thank you madfloridian. Thank you. |
Luminous Animal |
Dec-08-11 01:06 AM |
#46 |
-
Excellent post |
slay |
Dec-08-11 01:18 AM |
#47 |
 -
+1 |
Hell Hath No Fury |
Dec-08-11 10:29 AM |
#105 |
-
That's what happens if you don't succumb to "amoral party drift" |
Bonobo |
Dec-08-11 01:34 AM |
#48 |
-
I don't understand what the person at the Kos blog said that bothered you. |
Major Hogwash |
Dec-08-11 01:59 AM |
#50 |
-
K & R. Yes, I am sad at what is now happening, and that's all that I can say. |
freshwest |
Dec-08-11 01:59 AM |
#51 |
-
You were not alone on your journey |
emsimon33 |
Dec-08-11 02:01 AM |
#52 |
-
I'll take one issue. I want a liberal education system. |
boppers |
Dec-08-11 02:06 AM |
#53 |
-
Recommended |
me b zola |
Dec-08-11 02:15 AM |
#54 |
 -
Wise, wise words. True not only for DU, but for the entire country |
RufusTFirefly |
Dec-08-11 08:31 AM |
#97 |
 -
+1 |
Ignis |
Dec-08-11 12:14 PM |
#122 |
-
K&R |
libmom74 |
Dec-08-11 02:46 AM |
#55 |
-
I actually have grown more liberal the longer I stay with DU... |
WCGreen |
Dec-08-11 02:55 AM |
#56 |
-
Love your soul. Thanks for sharing it so freely. |
BeHereNow |
Dec-08-11 03:02 AM |
#57 |
-
MadFloridian, will you still be on the DU3? I am not sure if I will make the switch. |
Leopolds Ghost |
Dec-08-11 03:31 AM |
#58 |
 -
I don't know. |
madfloridian |
Dec-08-11 11:44 PM |
#179 |
-
I've seen the same............ |
HowHeThinks |
Dec-08-11 03:52 AM |
#59 |
-
I went from your standard bleeding heart liberal to a more radical position |
WildNovember |
Dec-08-11 04:08 AM |
#60 |
-
Mad you are a Dem moderate imo |
mntleo2 |
Dec-08-11 04:17 AM |
#61 |
-
I'm seeing a rightward drift here as well |
eridani |
Dec-08-11 04:57 AM |
#65 |
-
thank you |
irisblue |
Dec-08-11 05:07 AM |
#66 |
-
You`re right, it has been a strange trip. |
democrank |
Dec-08-11 05:33 AM |
#67 |
-
The vast majority of posts on this thread are responses to you. |
randome |
Dec-08-11 05:45 AM |
#69 |
-
+++ |
DemReadingDU |
Dec-08-11 06:00 AM |
#70 |
-
Excellent post, madflo |
MissDeeds |
Dec-08-11 06:08 AM |
#71 |
-
I honestly don't think you are at odds with the majority.. |
Little Star |
Dec-08-11 06:18 AM |
#73 |
 -
True -- and it's unbelievable that so many here feel INTIMIDATED by the RW NOISE machine -- !! |
defendandprotect |
Dec-08-11 04:05 PM |
#153 |
-
As far as personal journeys I grew up in a union household. |
TBF |
Dec-08-11 06:39 AM |
#74 |
-
I'm a radical liberal leftie... |
ananda |
Dec-08-11 06:49 AM |
#75 |
-
I'm with you! n/t |
BridgeTheGap |
Dec-08-11 06:53 AM |
#76 |
-
Recommended. |
H2O Man |
Dec-08-11 06:58 AM |
#77 |
-
K&R. |
City Lights |
Dec-08-11 07:01 AM |
#78 |
-
You're not alone Mad! Came here at the same time you did - |
axollot |
Dec-08-11 07:02 AM |
#79 |
-
Totally Understand |
pmorlan1 |
Dec-08-11 07:14 AM |
#83 |
-
I came back from self-imposed exile to tell you how much I have appreciated your words! |
Pholus |
Dec-08-11 07:16 AM |
#84 |
-
I feel much the same way- minus any republican influences |
Marrah_G |
Dec-08-11 07:16 AM |
#85 |
-
Well met, fellow traveler, but the journey is far from over. |
Tansy_Gold |
Dec-08-11 07:29 AM |
#86 |
-
You are simply excellent on educational subjects, so much of |
Bluenorthwest |
Dec-08-11 07:42 AM |
#87 |
-
Thank you for this wonderful and timely post, mad! |
LiberalEsto |
Dec-08-11 07:44 AM |
#88 |
-
The choice issue is going to hurt the Democratic party |
proud2BlibKansan |
Dec-08-11 07:49 AM |
#89 |
 -
It will...and |
madfloridian |
Dec-08-11 11:12 PM |
#178 |
-
i have discovered that not fitting in is good. |
dembotoz |
Dec-08-11 07:54 AM |
#90 |
-
That's my journey, too. |
LWolf |
Dec-08-11 07:57 AM |
#91 |
-
I still dig what you say, so I'm too liberal, too, I suppose... |
MrMickeysMom |
Dec-08-11 08:03 AM |
#92 |
-
Agree completely, Mad ... and it's disconcerting to see. |
Myrina |
Dec-08-11 08:05 AM |
#93 |
 -
+1 |
Little Star |
Dec-08-11 11:09 AM |
#110 |
-
Thanks for your thoughts mad... |
russspeakeasy |
Dec-08-11 08:15 AM |
#94 |
-
Me, too, and I don't know what to do about it to effectively change |
Vinca |
Dec-08-11 08:18 AM |
#95 |
-
k&r |
polichick |
Dec-08-11 08:20 AM |
#96 |
-
To paraphrase Steve Jobs, "Stay hungry, stay mad!" |
FailureToCommunicate |
Dec-08-11 09:05 AM |
#99 |
-
Maybe you're too liberal for the paid operatives but not for the real people liberals. |
valerief |
Dec-08-11 09:18 AM |
#100 |
-
The only disagreement is with tenure |
ccavagnolo |
Dec-08-11 09:22 AM |
#101 |
-
I enjoy your posts, Mad. nt |
raccoon |
Dec-08-11 10:07 AM |
#102 |
-
You're one of the consistently great posters, and your expertise in the field of |
Lydia Leftcoast |
Dec-08-11 10:10 AM |
#103 |
-
I'm still stunned how easy it's been to sell privatization to the American public. |
CrispyQ |
Dec-08-11 10:30 AM |
#106 |
-
Deleted message |
Name removed |
Dec-08-11 10:34 AM |
#107 |
-
Thank you! |
jopacaco |
Dec-08-11 10:34 AM |
#108 |
-
I think that is what exposure to Truth does -- |
Hell Hath No Fury |
Dec-08-11 11:03 AM |
#109 |
 -
As a 2001'er....I understand so well what you say. n/t |
KoKo |
Dec-08-11 03:21 PM |
#144 |
-
I must confess I do not pay |
xxqqqzme |
Dec-08-11 11:11 AM |
#111 |
-
It's a vocal (probably organized), strident, shrill minority here at DU... |
FredStembottom |
Dec-08-11 11:12 AM |
#112 |
 -
Yes, I agree that unfortunately it works. |
madfloridian |
Dec-09-11 03:15 PM |
#186 |
-
As long as you still believe we landed on the moon and planes really did hit the WTC |
snooper2 |
Dec-08-11 11:13 AM |
#113 |
-
"the president is consulting with the Catholic bishops on birth control rights for women" |
Mimosa |
Dec-08-11 11:14 AM |
#114 |
-
You certainly have never seemed too critical to me |
Generic Other |
Dec-08-11 11:15 AM |
#115 |
-
There's nothing wrong with your set... |
Octafish |
Dec-08-11 11:20 AM |
#116 |
-
As an LGBT person, |
Zorra |
Dec-08-11 11:27 AM |
#117 |
-
I'm a fellow traveller MF |
swilton |
Dec-08-11 11:53 AM |
#118 |
-
I've always considered myself kind of centrist by DU standards. |
KamaAina |
Dec-08-11 11:53 AM |
#119 |
-
IMO Obama's victory in 2008 has caused the forum to go downhill. |
Odin2005 |
Dec-08-11 12:04 PM |
#120 |
-
Would the last progressive to leave DU please turn the lights off. |
Fly by night |
Dec-08-11 12:08 PM |
#121 |
 -
Yes, it is |
Missy Vixen |
Dec-08-11 12:54 PM |
#128 |
-
Revolutionaries |
Anatos |
Dec-08-11 12:36 PM |
#123 |
 -
Sorry, but the "correction" is not only -- |
Hell Hath No Fury |
Dec-08-11 01:25 PM |
#131 |
-
"Fewer" works like that |
Anatos |
Dec-08-11 02:57 PM |
#140 |
-
If 2008-2010 taught us anything |
plantwomyn |
Dec-08-11 04:17 PM |
#155 |
-
Quite the opposite |
Anatos |
Dec-09-11 10:32 AM |
#183 |
-
Outstanding post! ... Thank you, MF. |
Bozita |
Dec-08-11 12:40 PM |
#124 |
-
The well-written responses show that some had good teachers. |
AnotherMcIntosh |
Dec-08-11 12:47 PM |
#125 |
 -
Welcome to DU! |
demmiblue |
Dec-08-11 01:28 PM |
#133 |
  -
Thanks, friend. |
AnotherMcIntosh |
Dec-08-11 02:12 PM |
#138 |
 -
Welcome to DU!!! |
Renew Deal |
Dec-08-11 10:57 PM |
#175 |
 -
Very kind words. |
madfloridian |
Dec-08-11 11:06 PM |
#176 |
-
Although I've been a LIBERAL for over 40 years and only been at DU for 3+ years your words resonate. |
bertman |
Dec-08-11 12:49 PM |
#126 |
-
I've been here since Inauguration Weekend 11 years ago |
Missy Vixen |
Dec-08-11 12:51 PM |
#127 |
-
This could be me saying these words, I totally agree with you. |
WHEN CRABS ROAR |
Dec-08-11 01:22 PM |
#130 |
-
K&R n/t |
myrna minx |
Dec-08-11 01:25 PM |
#132 |
-
madfloridian |
Diclotican |
Dec-08-11 01:28 PM |
#134 |
-
Well said and I agree! |
LongTomH |
Dec-08-11 01:46 PM |
#135 |
-
The more informed you are AND honest with yourself about what the |
Jefferson23 |
Dec-08-11 01:58 PM |
#136 |
-
And don't you change one darn bit madfloridian! |
Jazzgirl |
Dec-08-11 02:04 PM |
#137 |
-
A Great post for the Greatest Threads! |
FloriTexan |
Dec-08-11 02:56 PM |
#139 |
-
I joined in 2003. You're one of the reasons I stay here |
concord |
Dec-08-11 03:15 PM |
#142 |
-
I am with you all the way Mad. But what the hell we goina do about it. Why or how has the Democratic |
rhett o rick |
Dec-08-11 03:21 PM |
#143 |
-
Thanks for this post MadFloridian. It's very timely and appreciated... |
KoKo |
Dec-08-11 03:34 PM |
#145 |
 -
Me, too! |
chervilant |
Dec-08-11 08:07 PM |
#172 |
-
This is a liberal nation ... how could you NOT fit in? Look at OWS -- !! |
defendandprotect |
Dec-08-11 03:35 PM |
#146 |
-
You speak for me, madfloridian, and apparently for a lot of other |
JDPriestly |
Dec-08-11 03:35 PM |
#147 |
-
Good story. I've never been a church goer that much. Growing up I disliked religion. |
craigmatic |
Dec-08-11 03:59 PM |
#150 |
-
Well, you're one of a select few on my 'Buddy' list... |
truebrit71 |
Dec-08-11 04:19 PM |
#156 |
-
K&R !!! n/t |
RKP5637 |
Dec-08-11 05:28 PM |
#158 |
-
Great post! |
Taverner |
Dec-08-11 05:29 PM |
#159 |
-
K&R n/t |
louslobbs |
Dec-08-11 05:33 PM |
#160 |
-
K&R... |
awoke_in_2003 |
Dec-08-11 05:44 PM |
#161 |
-
yup 10+yr journey for me...i'm progressive+ DU is |
katty |
Dec-08-11 05:50 PM |
#162 |
-
K&R |
demmiblue |
Dec-08-11 05:52 PM |
#163 |
-
Love your informed opinion |
hapkidogal |
Dec-08-11 06:00 PM |
#164 |
-
I think the number of Republicans posting increased when Obama won. |
McCamy Taylor |
Dec-08-11 06:00 PM |
#165 |
-
This resonates with me. Good post. Hope you stick around. |
harun |
Dec-08-11 06:31 PM |
#166 |
-
You speak of party stances and I say |
Angry Dragon |
Dec-08-11 06:37 PM |
#167 |
-
Perhaps because we've gone from "right side/wrong side" thinking... |
TheMadMonk |
Dec-08-11 06:38 PM |
#168 |
-
Great OP. Keep those posts coming. n/t |
Paka |
Dec-08-11 06:42 PM |
#169 |
-
Good for you. Reagan was my first vote for President for |
davidwparker |
Dec-08-11 06:44 PM |
#170 |
-
Don't worry. When a Republican is re-elected, all of a sudden Democrats will be liberal again. nt |
krabigirl |
Dec-08-11 07:14 PM |
#171 |
 -
You noticed that, too? |
madfloridian |
Dec-09-11 07:06 PM |
#187 |
-
For me as well |
davidthegnome |
Dec-08-11 08:24 PM |
#173 |
 -
.... |
madfloridian |
Dec-09-11 09:11 PM |
#188 |
-
So, the 312 people here reccing this feel too liberal here? |
joshcryer |
Dec-08-11 11:08 PM |
#177 |
 -
I believe that the reason for this is basically the corporatism in the party. |
Zorra |
Dec-09-11 11:08 AM |
#185 |
-
I went thru a similar process myself. |
AverageJoe90 |
Dec-09-11 12:54 AM |
#181 |
 -
During the build-up to the Iraq Invasion of 2003.... |
madfloridian |
Dec-10-11 05:43 PM |
#192 |
-
I remember those early days, and your "spiritual growth"! |
PassingFair |
Dec-09-11 10:44 AM |
#184 |
 -
Been a lot of years, hasn't it? |
madfloridian |
Dec-12-11 12:47 AM |
#194 |
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It's weird, huh? |
ladyVet |
Dec-12-11 07:55 AM |
#195 |
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Mostly because our democratic party moved .... |
Bryn |
Dec-12-11 11:36 AM |
#197 |
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That first frame of the cartoon could so easily apply. |
madfloridian |
Dec-12-11 11:42 AM |
#198 |
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Wow your last sentence, so true: if you favor free education, you are a creep, I learned last week. |
closeupready |
Dec-12-11 11:53 AM |
#199 |
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What a Long, Strange Trip its Been! |
bvar22 |
Dec-12-11 12:40 PM |
#201 |
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Well said.."My Core Beliefs & Values haven't changed over the last 10 years." |
madfloridian |
Dec-12-11 12:45 PM |
#202 |
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kickety |
countryjake |
Dec-13-11 05:48 PM |
#204 |
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K&R |
KoKo |
Dec-22-11 06:56 PM |
#207 |
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Seems OWS is not the only group that got forced out of their tent by the 1%. |
Zorra |
Dec-22-11 10:40 PM |
#208 |
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Nice thoughtful post. |
madfloridian |
Dec-22-11 11:11 PM |
#209 |
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A kick for "MF's Post" as we go into the final Countdown to "Lights Out, Here." |
KoKo |
Dec-30-11 07:13 PM |
#210 |
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Kick |
Bryn |
Dec-30-11 10:41 PM |
#211 |