Scout
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Tue Dec-06-11 02:43 PM
Response to Original message |
| 109. discover/explore the permaculture movement n/t |
| -Urban Food Self-Sufficiency - The Myth |
MineralMan |
Dec-06-11 08:30 AM |
#0 |
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I for one welcome |
Tsiyu |
Dec-06-11 08:39 AM |
#1 |
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I don't welcome that at all. |
MineralMan |
Dec-06-11 08:40 AM |
#2 |
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We need all sorts of solutions |
Tsiyu |
Dec-06-11 09:39 AM |
#31 |
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I would love to have chickens. |
emcguffie |
Dec-06-11 12:34 PM |
#93 |
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We use the square foot gardening method |
MedicalAdmin |
Dec-06-11 02:42 PM |
#108 |
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Sounds like you do a lot with that garden |
Tsiyu |
Dec-06-11 05:10 PM |
#131 |
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It can be done. It has been done before. |
fasttense |
Dec-06-11 10:21 AM |
#46 |
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I agree it has been done before - I was born in 1941 and we seldom |
jwirr |
Dec-06-11 10:51 AM |
#54 |
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I am talking about 1850 Paris that fed 1.8 million people |
fasttense |
Dec-06-11 10:53 AM |
#56 |
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I would hope that would work if we come to the brink of starvation. nt |
jwirr |
Dec-06-11 11:07 AM |
#65 |
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And yet, by 1870, they starved when besieged |
muriel_volestrangler |
Dec-06-11 11:08 AM |
#68 |
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If you cut off supplies any city would starve. |
fasttense |
Dec-06-11 12:16 PM |
#89 |
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Well, manure was part of their production system |
muriel_volestrangler |
Dec-06-11 12:28 PM |
#90 |
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Well, how far back are you willing to take your restrictions on local? |
fasttense |
Dec-06-11 02:52 PM |
#110 |
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OK, thanks for the reference |
muriel_volestrangler |
Dec-06-11 03:35 PM |
#118 |
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You raise a lot of good points. Transportation is one of the |
MineralMan |
Dec-06-11 03:01 PM |
#111 |
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This is one of my concerns with big ag food. |
MedicalAdmin |
Dec-06-11 03:49 PM |
#121 |
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Discover square foot gardening! |
TNDemo |
Dec-06-11 08:42 AM |
#3 |
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No matter how intensive, raising a large percentage of the food |
MineralMan |
Dec-06-11 08:52 AM |
#7 |
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I have a quarter acre lot with a house on most of it. |
TNDemo |
Dec-06-11 09:07 AM |
#15 |
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Never went to the supermarket? Really? |
MineralMan |
Dec-06-11 09:12 AM |
#19 |
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Of course I went to the supermarket to supplement. |
TNDemo |
Dec-06-11 09:14 AM |
#22 |
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It's not a bad thing, and I didn't even suggest that it was. Some |
MineralMan |
Dec-06-11 09:18 AM |
#24 |
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Amazing we managed to survive all these centuries |
TNDemo |
Dec-06-11 09:21 AM |
#26 |
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"Centuries", "population." You use these words without grasping the changes within each. |
WinkyDink |
Dec-06-11 11:13 AM |
#74 |
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You do realize that we haven't had this population for "all these centuries". |
Crunchy Frog |
Dec-06-11 12:49 PM |
#97 |
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Not 200 years ago, and not in this country. |
emcguffie |
Dec-06-11 12:55 PM |
#100 |
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No, you're incorrect. In the year 1911, there were only |
MineralMan |
Dec-06-11 03:07 PM |
#112 |
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Lucky you, to have such a friend. Lucky you, to have a farmers' market. You seem unable to see a |
WinkyDink |
Dec-06-11 11:11 AM |
#70 |
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I read an article a while back about people growing food in Oregon. |
emcguffie |
Dec-06-11 12:48 PM |
#96 |
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Berea College has an "edible landscape" |
Tsiyu |
Dec-06-11 05:17 PM |
#132 |
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I think this is a very positive trend and that it should be encouraged and developed |
Crunchy Frog |
Dec-06-11 06:06 PM |
#137 |
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In Saint Paul, our farmers' markets have shut down for the winter. |
MineralMan |
Dec-06-11 03:10 PM |
#113 |
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There are some very good designs for passively solar heated greenhouses. |
MedicalAdmin |
Dec-06-11 03:47 PM |
#120 |
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$10,000, eh? |
MineralMan |
Dec-06-11 04:01 PM |
#124 |
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What can I say? |
MedicalAdmin |
Dec-06-11 04:52 PM |
#128 |
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If greenhouses were subsidized like Big Ag monoculture is |
Tsiyu |
Dec-06-11 05:19 PM |
#133 |
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Very true. |
MedicalAdmin |
Dec-06-11 06:04 PM |
#136 |
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Subsidies inflate prices |
Nuclear Unicorn |
Dec-06-11 06:19 PM |
#138 |
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Well, not Minnesota, but I grew up in suburbia and we grew all |
Bluenorthwest |
Dec-06-11 09:11 AM |
#17 |
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You grew all your vegetables. Cool. I used to do that, too. |
MineralMan |
Dec-06-11 09:14 AM |
#21 |
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Yeah, we did not buy produce in the supermarket at all. |
Bluenorthwest |
Dec-06-11 09:40 AM |
#32 |
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I believe the fact that you use Past Tense is pertinent. 1950 (e.g.) is not 2011. |
WinkyDink |
Dec-06-11 11:14 AM |
#75 |
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I was long from being born in 1950! |
Bluenorthwest |
Dec-06-11 11:57 AM |
#86 |
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The same suburbs have the same houses and yards -- |
emcguffie |
Dec-06-11 12:53 PM |
#98 |
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One and 2 acre farmers within Paris were able to produce all the fruits and vegetables needed |
fasttense |
Dec-06-11 09:49 AM |
#34 |
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We stayed with a friend of my husband's in an old castle in France-- |
emcguffie |
Dec-06-11 12:43 PM |
#95 |
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Absolutely - the solution doesn't need to be 100% to improve lives |
bhikkhu |
Dec-06-11 10:07 AM |
#43 |
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That's what we use in our 8' x 12' plot. |
emcguffie |
Dec-06-11 12:38 PM |
#94 |
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Level the playing field |
BanzaiBonnie |
Dec-06-11 08:45 AM |
#4 |
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That kind of small-scale agriculture is a great idea, but would be |
MineralMan |
Dec-06-11 08:55 AM |
#9 |
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Paris did it with 1.8 million people from 1850 to 1900. That's fifty years. n/t |
fasttense |
Dec-06-11 09:51 AM |
#37 |
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We did a similar thing here, too, in that time period |
MineralMan |
Dec-06-11 10:26 AM |
#48 |
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No it's not. |
fasttense |
Dec-06-11 10:51 AM |
#55 |
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why did that system come to an end? |
fishwax |
Dec-06-11 12:54 PM |
#99 |
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You're going to inspire me if you're not careful. |
emcguffie |
Dec-06-11 01:12 PM |
#104 |
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And all that farmland is now paved over. nt |
hack89 |
Dec-06-11 03:54 PM |
#122 |
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It is, indeed. |
MineralMan |
Dec-06-11 04:01 PM |
#125 |
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1.8 million people in the city of Paris is pretty concentrated. |
fasttense |
Dec-06-11 10:08 AM |
#44 |
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I think the point people are trying to make -- |
emcguffie |
Dec-06-11 01:00 PM |
#101 |
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The Lots of Pulp variety always seems to be available when I'm |
MineralMan |
Dec-06-11 01:57 PM |
#105 |
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localized food is the ONLY way forward. we need to figure out the how, but burning 12 fossil fuel |
piratefish08 |
Dec-06-11 08:45 AM |
#5 |
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Aren't they betting on our food prices on Wall Street? |
BanzaiBonnie |
Dec-06-11 08:47 AM |
#6 |
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that would be in chicago...... |
madrchsod |
Dec-06-11 09:00 AM |
#11 |
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Farmer's markets avoid that problem pretty well |
bhikkhu |
Dec-06-11 10:12 AM |
#45 |
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the vast majority of corporate farms are owned by families or family trusts |
madrchsod |
Dec-06-11 08:55 AM |
#8 |
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Exactly. Our population has exploded and has concentrated |
MineralMan |
Dec-06-11 09:02 AM |
#12 |
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my dad`s family had over 1000 acres around Austin. |
madrchsod |
Dec-06-11 09:59 AM |
#39 |
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Yes, that seems to be the pattern. Same thing in my |
MineralMan |
Dec-06-11 10:04 AM |
#42 |
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Corn and soybeans. |
emcguffie |
Dec-06-11 01:10 PM |
#103 |
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That is not true. |
fasttense |
Dec-06-11 09:57 AM |
#38 |
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Native Americans grew enough food on Manhattan |
MattBaggins |
Dec-06-11 11:08 AM |
#67 |
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Thanks, I did not know I was "cute" |
fasttense |
Dec-06-11 12:29 PM |
#91 |
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Here's a satellite view of greater Paris. |
MineralMan |
Dec-06-11 03:17 PM |
#114 |
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Okay, I saw that also. What is going to happen to that 1000 acre farm |
jwirr |
Dec-06-11 11:05 AM |
#63 |
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You are correct. |
trotsky |
Dec-06-11 08:56 AM |
#10 |
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Let the piling on begin. |
MineralMan |
Dec-06-11 09:06 AM |
#14 |
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Why do you see it as binary? The solutions are multiple. |
Bluenorthwest |
Dec-06-11 09:23 AM |
#27 |
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I haven't studied this in depth |
Dorian Gray |
Dec-06-11 10:23 AM |
#47 |
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Or like my college professor who got irate |
MattBaggins |
Dec-06-11 11:10 AM |
#69 |
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LOL |
trotsky |
Dec-06-11 12:12 PM |
#88 |
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Tell that to this family: |
ret5hd |
Dec-06-11 09:03 AM |
#13 |
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Hey, now! I'll just go out in the backyard and convert my pool |
MineralMan |
Dec-06-11 09:11 AM |
#18 |
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You said it couldn't be done. They proved you wrong. Take it up with them. |
ret5hd |
Dec-06-11 09:12 AM |
#20 |
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Nah, that's OK. I'll send that video to all the folks living in that |
MineralMan |
Dec-06-11 09:15 AM |
#23 |
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Wouldn't it do more good to send it to "the residential homeowner... |
ret5hd |
Dec-06-11 09:31 AM |
#29 |
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None of those in my neighborhood have a swimming pool, but |
MineralMan |
Dec-06-11 09:49 AM |
#35 |
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*facepalm* |
cleanhippie |
Dec-06-11 10:59 AM |
#59 |
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Never mind. I was clear about what I was saying. I'm not sure why |
MineralMan |
Dec-06-11 11:00 AM |
#60 |
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I thought your point was perfectly clear, and spot on. |
cleanhippie |
Dec-06-11 11:02 AM |
#62 |
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It doesn't matter. I post and let people reply in whatever way |
MineralMan |
Dec-06-11 11:07 AM |
#66 |
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Need i give the complete sentence that i was quoting from? I guess i do: |
ret5hd |
Dec-06-11 11:02 AM |
#61 |
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And the family in that video represents the "average" across the country? |
cleanhippie |
Dec-06-11 11:06 AM |
#64 |
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They didn't prove him wrong |
MattBaggins |
Dec-06-11 11:11 AM |
#72 |
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I don't know about NYC, but it seems like you could make a large dent in Phoenix. |
ret5hd |
Dec-06-11 11:25 AM |
#79 |
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From your own OP: |
Bluenorthwest |
Dec-06-11 10:00 AM |
#40 |
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Produce does not make up an entire diet. |
MineralMan |
Dec-06-11 10:02 AM |
#41 |
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For those who are vegan it is an entire diet, sir. |
Bluenorthwest |
Dec-06-11 10:35 AM |
#49 |
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Deleted sub-thread |
Name removed |
Dec-06-11 10:42 AM |
#51 |
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I did not write about agriculture for that publication. |
MineralMan |
Dec-06-11 10:50 AM |
#53 |
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I asked only because you used that association to enhance |
Bluenorthwest |
Dec-06-11 11:51 AM |
#84 |
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I'm still reading MEN. I've read it since it started. |
MineralMan |
Dec-06-11 02:00 PM |
#106 |
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I'd be interested to know what subjects you wrote on for Mother Earth... |
SixString |
Dec-06-11 06:55 PM |
#140 |
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That pool also gives them tilapia, chickens and eggs. |
ret5hd |
Dec-06-11 11:28 AM |
#81 |
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Yes, combining fish raising with hyrdoponics is growing in popularity. |
MineralMan |
Dec-06-11 02:03 PM |
#107 |
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the point is it is one backyard feeding a family of 4...and not just produce. |
ret5hd |
Dec-06-11 03:34 PM |
#117 |
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Perhaps they are. |
MineralMan |
Dec-06-11 03:38 PM |
#119 |
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all i have is the link: gardenpool.org |
ret5hd |
Dec-06-11 04:54 PM |
#130 |
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Or, in the long range view, we could address this problem: |
LWolf |
Dec-06-11 09:08 AM |
#16 |
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Yes, a smaller population would make it a lot simpler. |
MineralMan |
Dec-06-11 09:21 AM |
#25 |
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It seems like we have to reach a certain critical mass |
LWolf |
Dec-06-11 03:24 PM |
#115 |
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It's a remarkably bad idea to have our food supply concentrated in the hands of 8-10 suppliers, |
woo me with science |
Dec-06-11 09:29 AM |
#28 |
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Some of our food supply is concentrated in that way. |
MineralMan |
Dec-06-11 09:37 AM |
#30 |
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Well in 1875, small, 1 to 2 acres, farms were able to supply all the fruits |
fasttense |
Dec-06-11 09:45 AM |
#33 |
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Good article on current legislation around these issues can be |
Bluenorthwest |
Dec-06-11 11:11 AM |
#71 |
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Deleted sub-thread |
Name removed |
Dec-06-11 09:51 AM |
#36 |
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With respect, MM, you are off base. Many people can and do have "less expensive |
wiggs |
Dec-06-11 10:40 AM |
#50 |
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You've captured my point very well. |
MineralMan |
Dec-06-11 10:54 AM |
#57 |
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Sherrod Brown introduced the Local Farms, Food, and Jobs Act, |
Bluenorthwest |
Dec-06-11 10:44 AM |
#52 |
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I agree with that farmer. He's quite correct. |
MineralMan |
Dec-06-11 11:18 AM |
#76 |
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No one maintains that one method is THE answer, man. That |
Bluenorthwest |
Dec-06-11 11:27 AM |
#80 |
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Feeding others ≠ commercial agriculture |
saras |
Dec-06-11 10:57 AM |
#58 |
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As usual, the solution lies somewhere in the middle |
KamaAina |
Dec-06-11 11:12 AM |
#73 |
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Very true. Monterey County is ideal for growing lettuce. I lived |
MineralMan |
Dec-06-11 11:20 AM |
#78 |
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National Sustainable Agriculture Coalition page on the Local |
Bluenorthwest |
Dec-06-11 11:19 AM |
#77 |
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Suggested reading about food and population growth: |
OxQQme |
Dec-06-11 11:44 AM |
#82 |
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You can find millions of works that claim only the corporate farming method works. |
fasttense |
Dec-06-11 12:33 PM |
#92 |
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Sustainable Gardening |
SixString |
Dec-06-11 11:47 AM |
#83 |
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I tilled and weeded for a mythological urban garden last year... |
T S Justly |
Dec-06-11 11:57 AM |
#85 |
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How much of what kinds of food did you bring home from |
MineralMan |
Dec-06-11 04:05 PM |
#126 |
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They were community gardens in the urban center... |
T S Justly |
Dec-06-11 05:38 PM |
#134 |
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Here in the Bay Area, birthplace of the "locavore" movement, "local" is defined rather loosely |
KamaAina |
Dec-06-11 12:10 PM |
#87 |
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I always get flack for eating organic food |
Cats Against Frist |
Dec-06-11 01:01 PM |
#102 |
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discover/explore the permaculture movement n/t |
Scout |
Dec-06-11 02:43 PM |
#109 |
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Is there a prevalence of posters who claim to grow enough |
LanternWaste |
Dec-06-11 03:26 PM |
#116 |
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There are a number of poster who claim that it's possible. |
MineralMan |
Dec-06-11 03:56 PM |
#123 |
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How about: Starvation -- the alternative |
Terry in Austin |
Dec-06-11 04:09 PM |
#127 |
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How it can be done: biointensive farming |
Gormy Cuss |
Dec-06-11 04:52 PM |
#129 |
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Yes, this is the bitter reality. |
DCBob |
Dec-06-11 05:46 PM |
#135 |
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Commercial farming blows chunks. It's crap. |
RegieRocker |
Dec-06-11 06:40 PM |
#139 |
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