TBF
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Sun Nov-27-11 01:36 PM
Response to Reply #2 |
| 57. There might be a civil war with Texas leaving the union, |
|
Edited on Sun Nov-27-11 01:37 PM by TBF
but would that really be bad (well, I would have to get out of here first ... but that is my problem not the rest of y'alls ...)
"The bet we can hope for is to slow the relentless move to the right" - if that is true than they might as well start that revolution today as far as I'm concerned.
|
| -We Have to go Socialist |
Taverner |
Nov-26-11 09:32 PM |
#0 |
 -
Recommended. nt |
ZombieHorde |
Nov-26-11 09:43 PM |
#1 |
  -
We are already a socialist state . It came in through the back-door when |
nineteen50 |
Nov-27-11 02:58 PM |
#61 |
| -
That's not a planned socialist economy. That's capitalism at its worst. |
Better Believe It |
Nov-27-11 07:32 PM |
#107 |
| -
It's Socialism for the rich -- cold hearted Capitalism for the rest of us. |
txlibdem |
Nov-29-11 07:59 PM |
#178 |
| -
Nice fantasy, but it's never going to happen in the U.S. Never. |
elocs |
Nov-26-11 09:43 PM |
#2 |
| -
The bigger fantasy, really, is that capitalism can remain viable |
villager |
Nov-26-11 10:22 PM |
#11 |
| -
Capitalism, as understood here in the United States, demands constant growth. |
Tesha |
Nov-27-11 07:11 AM |
#32 |
| -
Exactly -- like a cancer cell |
villager |
Nov-27-11 10:34 AM |
#44 |
| -
Capitalism is a workable system. You just have to regulate it so |
nineteen50 |
Nov-27-11 03:01 PM |
#62 |
| -
IMHO It just seems like every time we have tried to regulate capitalism |
Denver Progressive |
Nov-27-11 08:29 PM |
#123 |
| -
and time is running out |
dothemath |
Nov-27-11 04:49 PM |
#82 |
| -
Nature requires balance for the continuation of life in all forms. |
AlbertCat |
Nov-27-11 09:42 PM |
#136 |
| -
Yep. Exactly. eom |
Taverner |
Nov-27-11 06:08 PM |
#97 |
| -
There might be a civil war with Texas leaving the union, |
TBF |
Nov-27-11 01:36 PM |
#57 |
| -
Yes, because if we move to the right much further than the candidates |
jwirr |
Nov-27-11 05:28 PM |
#93 |
| -
If Texas wants to leave |
Berlin Expat |
Nov-28-11 12:47 PM |
#160 |
| -
Deleted message |
Name removed |
Nov-27-11 06:41 PM |
#99 |
| -
but it's never going to happen in the U.S. Never. |
AlbertCat |
Nov-27-11 07:59 PM |
#115 |
| -
That sounds like a threat |
Mosaic |
Nov-27-11 09:23 PM |
#131 |
| -
Times change. There was recently a time when citizens took up arms to protect workers' rights. |
LanternWaste |
Nov-29-11 02:31 PM |
#174 |
| -
Single payer health care will be here circa 2130 |
banned from Kos |
Nov-26-11 09:46 PM |
#3 |
| -
Single payer will be here in 10-15 years, tops. Our health care system is collapsing. |
joshcryer |
Nov-26-11 10:15 PM |
#10 |
| -
The costs are high, but I doubt it dwarfs our military budget. |
white_wolf |
Nov-28-11 03:33 PM |
#166 |
| -
I'm just hoping we don't have to go Tribal!.... |
Bigmack |
Nov-26-11 09:55 PM |
#4 |
| -
You go right ahead. I'd rather not. |
NYC_SKP |
Nov-26-11 10:00 PM |
#5 |
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"Socialism" is a mighty big tent. |
Jackpine Radical |
Nov-26-11 10:07 PM |
#7 |
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K & R that |
freshwest |
Nov-27-11 05:20 PM |
#91 |
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+1 |
patrice |
Nov-27-11 08:25 PM |
#120 |
| -
Social democracies are neither unproven nor utopian. |
PDJane |
Nov-26-11 10:08 PM |
#8 |
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The topic was socialism and not Euro social democracy |
banned from Kos |
Nov-26-11 10:13 PM |
# |
| -
actually, that's state socialism: |
PDJane |
Nov-26-11 10:32 PM |
#13 |
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The super-ordinate trait would something TTE "People before profits" of which state-ownership isonly |
patrice |
Nov-27-11 08:29 PM |
#124 |
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"public ownership of the means of production." |
Mosaic |
Nov-27-11 09:32 PM |
#134 |
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It can't be much more wretched than your beloved capitalism. |
white_wolf |
Nov-28-11 03:35 PM |
#167 |
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I would agree, after financial capitalism the last phase of capitalism is fascism. |
nineteen50 |
Nov-27-11 03:06 PM |
#63 |
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Those social democracies all have capitalism as the bedrock of their economies. nt |
hack89 |
Nov-28-11 11:06 AM |
#154 |
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I hate to say, but employee-owned businesses are forms of socialism, too. |
Selatius |
Nov-26-11 10:38 PM |
#15 |
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+1 |
MichaelMcGuire |
Nov-27-11 05:37 AM |
#24 |
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They are not. |
DireStrike |
Nov-27-11 07:13 AM |
#33 |
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What would that make insurance? socialist or communist |
nineteen50 |
Nov-27-11 03:09 PM |
#64 |
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You stole my thunder ... |
Fantastic Anarchist |
Nov-27-11 04:37 PM |
#75 |
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No irony, really. When Lenin wanted to overthrow the state, he saw that the soviets |
eridani |
Nov-27-11 10:22 PM |
#141 |
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Exactly. nt |
Fantastic Anarchist |
Nov-28-11 02:57 PM |
#164 |
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Both Proudhon and Bakunin advocated what you call for ... |
Fantastic Anarchist |
Nov-27-11 04:28 PM |
#74 |
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That's what I think. It seems to me that many more or less different kinds of solutions would be |
patrice |
Nov-27-11 08:51 PM |
#126 |
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I'll take Senator Sanders idea of government any day over what |
OwnedByFerrets |
Nov-27-11 05:12 PM |
#88 |
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The problem with employee owned business..... |
blindpig |
Nov-28-11 02:04 PM |
#163 |
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It's certainly worth looking at. nt |
LWolf |
Nov-26-11 10:03 PM |
#6 |
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Toss the state and I'm with you on that. |
joshcryer |
Nov-26-11 10:13 PM |
#9 |
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Actually, we are HAD by cronyism of either flavor. |
jtuck004 |
Nov-26-11 10:28 PM |
#12 |
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I think you are right. When Russia failed everyone said it was do to |
nineteen50 |
Nov-27-11 03:13 PM |
#65 |
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I'd rather not have either ... |
Fantastic Anarchist |
Nov-27-11 04:39 PM |
#76 |
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Funny how so many people jump to defend Capitalism |
txlibdem |
Nov-26-11 10:33 PM |
#14 |
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We are all the same to the top 1%: |
AlbertCat |
Nov-27-11 09:51 PM |
#139 |
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We are all the same to the top 1%, truth |
txlibdem |
Nov-28-11 06:53 AM |
#148 |
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A rigid, unyielding dogma has got to be a pain in the ass... |
LanternWaste |
Nov-29-11 02:36 PM |
#175 |
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We see places where it works fine - we want to be like them |
hack89 |
Nov-29-11 02:24 PM |
#173 |
| -
What does your version look like? |
nobodyspecial |
Nov-26-11 10:39 PM |
#16 |
| -
kr |
Norrin Radd |
Nov-26-11 10:49 PM |
#17 |
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We need a heavy dose of FDR. |
mick063 |
Nov-26-11 10:52 PM |
#18 |
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Welcome to DU. |
Norrin Radd |
Nov-27-11 03:07 AM |
#21 |
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In FDR's day, 30% of Americans belonged to the Socialist or Communist Parties, that's the difference |
txlibdem |
Nov-27-11 06:51 AM |
#27 |
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My sources have that figure well below 30%. |
LanternWaste |
Nov-29-11 02:52 PM |
#176 |
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What you don't seem to realize... |
AntiFascist |
Nov-27-11 01:35 AM |
#19 |
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socializing the risk? |
MichaelMcGuire |
Nov-27-11 05:36 AM |
#23 |
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Both the risks and the losses when they lose... |
AntiFascist |
Nov-27-11 02:54 PM |
#59 |
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We can't even nominate a very liberal Democrat without losing 49 states |
Ter |
Nov-27-11 01:40 AM |
#20 |
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Socialism would work no better with the governance we currently have... |
JCMach1 |
Nov-27-11 05:04 AM |
#22 |
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It's the GREED that screws up any system |
socialindependocrat |
Nov-27-11 06:55 AM |
#28 |
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You do understand that not all socialism is left wing don't you? |
NNN0LHI |
Nov-27-11 05:45 AM |
#25 |
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The Khmer Rouge were radically left wing. |
eomer |
Nov-27-11 06:24 AM |
#26 |
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They were communists. . . |
B Calm |
Nov-27-11 07:03 AM |
#31 |
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Really, did they have socialized medicine and did they run a national transportation system? |
ThomWV |
Nov-27-11 07:20 AM |
#34 |
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Yes, I actually agree with you more then me on this; let me explain better. |
eomer |
Nov-27-11 08:13 AM |
#41 |
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But it wasn't "collective ownership of the means of production." |
Fantastic Anarchist |
Nov-27-11 04:45 PM |
#79 |
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True, in reality ownership was by a small group that was in control. |
eomer |
Nov-28-11 04:24 AM |
#147 |
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That's a very useful distinction. :-) |
patrice |
Nov-27-11 09:04 PM |
#129 |
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False. The Khmer Rouge folded when their leader died -- that's Fascism |
txlibdem |
Nov-27-11 07:26 AM |
#37 |
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That is false. |
former9thward |
Nov-27-11 10:58 AM |
#45 |
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They did nothing of note after Pol Pot was dead |
txlibdem |
Nov-27-11 12:42 PM |
#47 |
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They did very little from 1979 until Pot died in 1998. |
former9thward |
Nov-27-11 03:16 PM |
#68 |
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The case can be made that the state socialism/state capitalism .. |
Fantastic Anarchist |
Nov-27-11 04:51 PM |
#83 |
| -
Pol Pot even admited that he wasn't a communist. |
Fantastic Anarchist |
Nov-27-11 04:48 PM |
#81 |
| -
True communism would require the opposite of dictatorship |
Mosaic |
Nov-27-11 09:49 PM |
#138 |
| -
"It's time for a paradigm change." |
Fantastic Anarchist |
Nov-28-11 08:59 AM |
#151 |
| -
Hahaha |
MFrohike |
Nov-27-11 03:23 PM |
#70 |
| -
You can't be serious |
txlibdem |
Nov-27-11 07:39 PM |
#109 |
| -
I call Leninist Communism |
MFrohike |
Nov-28-11 02:37 AM |
#145 |
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Who are you arguing against? Pol Pot? Lenin? Mao? Do you even know??? |
txlibdem |
Nov-28-11 06:56 AM |
#149 |
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I do know |
MFrohike |
Nov-28-11 12:14 PM |
#158 |
| -
No, they weren't. |
Fantastic Anarchist |
Nov-27-11 04:43 PM |
#78 |
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The term is "Regressive" - they were trying to return to Angkor... |
Taverner |
Nov-27-11 07:46 PM |
#112 |
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That is the single stupidest thing I've read on DU in ages... |
Imajika |
Nov-27-11 01:33 PM |
#55 |
| -
Khmer Rouge was a totalitarian political government. |
Fantastic Anarchist |
Nov-27-11 04:43 PM |
#77 |
| -
massive fail. nt |
Javaman |
Nov-27-11 06:58 PM |
#101 |
| -
I could agree if only you had said DEMOCRATIC SOCIALIST |
B Calm |
Nov-27-11 06:58 AM |
#29 |
| -
At what level and who do you consider to the "we"? |
ThomWV |
Nov-27-11 06:58 AM |
#30 |
| -
This kind of talk is like candy to the GOP |
Courtesy Flush |
Nov-27-11 07:21 AM |
#35 |
| -
There is a term ... |
Fantastic Anarchist |
Nov-27-11 04:55 PM |
#85 |
| -
It will come to some of the regions after the breakup of the "United" States. |
Tesha |
Nov-27-11 07:21 AM |
#36 |
| -
Cascadia? Socialist? |
DonCoquixote |
Nov-27-11 08:29 AM |
#42 |
| -
Over the hills. But not so much in the region near the ocean. |
Tesha |
Nov-27-11 08:30 AM |
#43 |
| -
So the Puget Sound isn't the "ocean" then? What mountains do you have to traverse to get from |
cherokeeprogressive |
Nov-27-11 12:54 PM |
#51 |
| -
Boeing and microsoft are predominately in king county |
Muskypundit |
Nov-27-11 05:18 PM |
#90 |
| -
... |
dionysus |
Nov-27-11 07:58 PM |
#114 |
| -
Yes. We won't live to see it, but yes. |
Taverner |
Nov-27-11 08:58 PM |
#128 |
| -
People are starting to wake up |
Harmony Blue |
Nov-27-11 07:38 AM |
#38 |
| -
K & R !!! |
WillyT |
Nov-27-11 07:42 AM |
#39 |
| -
Pipe dream. |
DCBob |
Nov-27-11 07:49 AM |
#40 |
| -
Well, that's your *HOPE*, anyway. Whether it's true is yet to be seen. (NT) |
Tesha |
Nov-27-11 12:47 PM |
#48 |
| -
My hope is something good comes out of all of this and it doesnt just fade away like a pipe dream. |
DCBob |
Nov-27-11 05:22 PM |
#92 |
| -
The focus should be on both. |
Tesha |
Nov-27-11 07:19 PM |
#106 |
| -
Deleted message |
Name removed |
Nov-27-11 12:53 PM |
#49 |
| -
Some change has to come about OUTSIDE the corrupt established political system |
Vincardog |
Nov-27-11 12:55 PM |
#52 |
| -
But what sort of socialism? I think a huge problem |
OnionPatch |
Nov-27-11 11:51 AM |
#46 |
| -
THIS is the most meaningful post in the thread. I'm admittedly not well-versed in the tenets |
cherokeeprogressive |
Nov-27-11 01:07 PM |
#53 |
| -
+1. I, for one, am tired of all talk of "isms" |
OneGrassRoot |
Nov-27-11 01:10 PM |
#54 |
| -
I agree get out of the box. And when your stomach is empty "isms" will not |
nineteen50 |
Nov-27-11 03:20 PM |
#69 |
| -
Yes! Of late I find myself suggesting we get rid of the darn box altogether. n/t |
OneGrassRoot |
Nov-27-11 03:40 PM |
#72 |
| -
my personal definition, of what i'd like to see; nationalized health care, energy, and banking. |
dionysus |
Nov-27-11 08:07 PM |
#116 |
| -
I have seen responses elsewhere to the kinds of issues you raise that suggest |
patrice |
Nov-27-11 09:25 PM |
#133 |
| -
Glad this didn't get locked |
upi402 |
Nov-27-11 12:53 PM |
#50 |
| -
I'm with you on that. nt |
TBF |
Nov-27-11 01:35 PM |
#56 |
| -
PLEASE DEFINE SOCIALISM |
Martin Eden |
Nov-27-11 02:08 PM |
#58 |
| -
Worker control of the means of production |
Taverner |
Nov-27-11 06:04 PM |
#96 |
| -
I'm in.... the Danes are the happiest people in the world. |
secondwind |
Nov-27-11 02:55 PM |
#60 |
| -
They also have a market economy that embraces capitalism |
hack89 |
Nov-28-11 10:19 AM |
#152 |
| -
We need the same kind of socialism |
sulphurdunn |
Nov-27-11 03:15 PM |
#66 |
| -
yeah. we need to let go of our minor differences of opinion and get together for the big stuff. |
earcandle |
Nov-27-11 03:16 PM |
#67 |
| -
Pointless |
MFrohike |
Nov-27-11 03:26 PM |
#71 |
| -
Absolutely backwards - it is the system that rewards behavior so the system |
TBF |
Nov-27-11 05:13 PM |
#89 |
| -
+1000 agreed |
txlibdem |
Nov-27-11 08:09 PM |
#118 |
| -
Which is done how? |
MFrohike |
Nov-28-11 02:38 AM |
#146 |
| -
Your "constant vigilanace of capital" has resulted in the top 1% of the country |
TBF |
Nov-28-11 07:10 AM |
#150 |
| -
Not so much, no |
MFrohike |
Nov-28-11 11:57 AM |
#155 |
| -
You might call it a failure when a dictatorship of the proletariat takes over - |
TBF |
Nov-28-11 12:12 PM |
#156 |
| -
Seriously? |
MFrohike |
Nov-28-11 12:33 PM |
#159 |
| -
You've been quite explicit but you're wrong - |
TBF |
Nov-28-11 03:25 PM |
#165 |
| -
I think a Paris Commune type system is the best. |
white_wolf |
Nov-28-11 03:51 PM |
#168 |
| -
Marx recognized the PC as the first example of the dicatorship of the proletarian |
TBF |
Nov-28-11 04:07 PM |
#169 |
| -
Oh, you're adorable |
MFrohike |
Nov-28-11 04:11 PM |
#170 |
| -
Solidarity Kick and Recommend! |
Fantastic Anarchist |
Nov-27-11 04:23 PM |
#73 |
| -
K&R |
Lunabelle |
Nov-27-11 04:48 PM |
#80 |
| -
No. You need a hybrid |
jeffrey_X |
Nov-27-11 04:53 PM |
#84 |
| -
Then we need affirmative action for entreprenuers and small business |
Mosaic |
Nov-27-11 10:16 PM |
#140 |
| -
Capitalism will someday finally collapse under its own rapacious greed. |
ChadwickHenryWard |
Nov-27-11 04:55 PM |
#86 |
| -
I think that day may be coming sooner than some would like to admit - |
TBF |
Nov-28-11 12:14 PM |
#157 |
| -
Yep. Bilderbergers don't do it alone. nt |
valerief |
Nov-27-11 05:03 PM |
#87 |
| -
Humans vs, machines...where did I hear that? |
Uben |
Nov-27-11 05:35 PM |
#94 |
| -
Perhaps it is time for a Butlerian Jihad, no? |
Taverner |
Nov-27-11 06:04 PM |
#95 |
| -
Rise up against our robot masters because they slaughtered our bastard child? |
Cid_B |
Nov-27-11 06:46 PM |
#100 |
| -
Revolutions were started for less... |
Taverner |
Nov-27-11 07:11 PM |
#104 |
| -
Deleted message |
Name removed |
Nov-27-11 06:10 PM |
#98 |
| -
I don't think you'll get an answer to that. |
cherokeeprogressive |
Nov-27-11 07:07 PM |
#103 |
| -
Socialism is: Wresting the means of production from the capitalists to the workers |
Taverner |
Nov-27-11 07:13 PM |
#105 |
| -
Social Democracy, akin to what they have in Europe |
CreekDog |
Nov-27-11 10:53 PM |
#144 |
| -
I keep waiting for the clarion call from a Democratic president that will turn Reagan's |
deutsey |
Nov-27-11 07:05 PM |
#102 |
| -
AMEN! |
Taverner |
Nov-27-11 07:34 PM |
#108 |
| -
Privatize Profits... Socialize Debt ..... |
lib2DaBone |
Nov-27-11 07:39 PM |
#110 |
| -
Forgot to mention.. the "Golden Rule"... |
lib2DaBone |
Nov-27-11 07:41 PM |
#111 |
| -
Disagree, appropriately regulated capitalism is the way to go |
usregimechange |
Nov-27-11 07:51 PM |
#113 |
| -
Pure capitalism is a bad system because.. |
mvd |
Nov-27-11 08:07 PM |
#117 |
| -
1++ |
patrice |
Nov-27-11 09:35 PM |
#135 |
| -
For those who choose to CO - operate, there're as many custom-made solutions, as there are problems |
patrice |
Nov-27-11 08:13 PM |
#119 |
| -
I prefer Sweden's brand of capitalism. nt |
hack89 |
Nov-27-11 08:26 PM |
#121 |
| -
We need to brand it with a different name. |
tavalon |
Nov-27-11 08:28 PM |
#122 |
| -
K&R (n/t) |
a2liberal |
Nov-27-11 08:44 PM |
#125 |
| -
Indeed. That means no more divide and conquer. Immigrants, women, gays, Muslims all under the tent. |
McCamy Taylor |
Nov-27-11 08:52 PM |
#127 |
| -
YES! |
Taverner |
Nov-27-11 09:07 PM |
#130 |
| -
White men, women must be all under the Same Tent |
Mosaic |
Nov-27-11 10:35 PM |
#142 |
| -
Good luck, the pushbacks would be tougher than 1917 and 1950's combined |
CatholicEdHead |
Nov-27-11 09:25 PM |
#132 |
| -
I think that is an outdated meme |
Mosaic |
Nov-27-11 10:38 PM |
#143 |
| -
John Maynard Keynes - "Capitalism is the extraordinary belief that the nastiest of men for the nasti |
Bozita |
Nov-27-11 09:45 PM |
#137 |
| -
We have to mix more socialism in with our capitalism, you mean. |
Orsino |
Nov-28-11 10:37 AM |
#153 |
| -
at least in part.... |
dembotoz |
Nov-28-11 01:04 PM |
#161 |
| -
Whenever presented with only two choices.... |
chaska |
Nov-28-11 01:40 PM |
#162 |
| -
Well, the current money system isn't working for 99% of the world |
txlibdem |
Nov-28-11 11:10 PM |
#171 |
| -
Deleted message |
Name removed |
Nov-29-11 04:35 AM |
#172 |
| -
Is that a statue of Adam Smith??? That would make the caption make sense. |
txlibdem |
Nov-29-11 07:55 PM |
#177 |
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