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Reply #193: Doing one's best to eliminate fraud and waste in a program is not "reforming" that program. [View All]

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No Elephants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-28-11 05:36 AM
Response to Reply #160
193. Doing one's best to eliminate fraud and waste in a program is not "reforming" that program.
It's managing a program the way it should be managed--and should ALWAYS have been managed.

Too often "reform" is code for cutting OASDI, Medicare or social safety nets.
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  -Fake forum commenters 'eroding' trust in the web - BBC sixmile  Nov-26-11 02:38 PM   #0 
  - Describing them as "people" is rather misleading.  TheWraith   Nov-26-11 02:41 PM   #1 
  - Ever debated a Troll?  sixmile   Nov-26-11 02:51 PM   #3 
     - Yeah, but obfuscating stupidity is different from paid astroturf. ;) nt  TheWraith   Nov-26-11 03:36 PM   #12 
        - I've seen a lot of really nasty ones on YouTube who sound like they could be Establishment shills...  AverageJoe90   Nov-27-11 11:01 PM   #179 
  - I'm not worried. They'll try to automate it so as not to have to pay people  annabanana   Nov-26-11 02:41 PM   #2 
  - Commercials should be clearly labeled as such. nt  woo me with science   Nov-26-11 02:51 PM   #4 
  - All your comment  Jackpine Radical   Nov-27-11 02:15 PM   #127 
  - How many fake forum commenting agents provocateurs does the BBC and other powers-that-be employ  phasma ex machina   Nov-26-11 02:57 PM   #5 
  - As many red herrings as grow in the wood.  Donald Ian Rankin   Nov-27-11 10:27 AM   #63 
  - I think the vast majority are GOP paid operatives.  DCBob   Nov-26-11 03:01 PM   #6 
  - If I managed a Marketing/PR firm For Corporate/Wall Street America,  bvar22   Nov-26-11 03:25 PM   #9 
  - If I were the GOP, and controlled the media,  Robb   Nov-26-11 03:33 PM   #11 
  - Help me out here.  bvar22   Nov-26-11 03:39 PM   #13 
  - How do you define "Alternative Media," exactly?  Robb   Nov-26-11 03:43 PM   #14 
  - Robb...Come On...Alternative Media is now many sites banned on DU...  KoKo   Nov-26-11 08:20 PM   #28 
  - How do we learn which sites are banned afrom mentioning (?) on D.U.?  Mimosa   Nov-27-11 10:21 AM   #61 
     - It's for "Some to Know" and "You and Me" not to know....???  KoKo   Nov-27-11 07:37 PM   #167 
     - I know of 2 ultra-right-wing sites that are forbidden to mention here.  Quantess   Nov-28-11 04:40 AM   #187 
        - Thanks, I found them.  Mimosa   Nov-28-11 10:08 AM   #199 
  - Evasion. You know he's right. nt  caseymoz   Nov-27-11 12:35 PM   #84 
  - Alternative media is not paid for by advertising or corporations. What's so hard about that?  saras   Nov-27-11 04:59 PM   #165 
     - There is no such beast.  Robb   Nov-28-11 03:50 PM   #201 
  - "I have to search the Alternative Media to find any commentators from The Left."  phasma ex machina   Nov-26-11 03:59 PM   #16 
  - Wait - you were serious, then ?  muriel_volestrangler   Nov-26-11 07:44 PM   #27 
  - Oh, me too. Please.  Laelth   Nov-27-11 11:39 AM   #80 
  - +1...nt  SidDithers   Nov-26-11 03:50 PM   #15 
  - we know how you feel about many of us  CreekDog   Nov-26-11 10:27 PM   #37 
  - I should think a person paid to post by the GOP  JDPriestly   Nov-27-11 11:32 AM   #77 
  - 1+++  patrice   Nov-27-11 12:52 PM   #88 
  - So why are so many "centrist" commenters such condescending assholes?  ZenaD   Nov-27-11 01:29 PM   #100 
  - They already do that. The only 'democrats' I ever see on the MSM  sabrina 1   Nov-27-11 01:35 PM   #105 
  - Your posts consistently  Enthusiast   Nov-27-11 02:13 PM   #125 
  - We have two kinds of media, Republican and establishment (whomever the establishment  No Elephants   Nov-28-11 04:24 AM   #184 
  - 'divisive commentators on the left '  Rex   Nov-27-11 02:44 PM   #140 
     - I'd like them to identify one with a following in numbers that would have any impact on an election  ZenaD   Nov-27-11 04:03 PM   #161 
        - It was rhetorical.  Rex   Nov-27-11 04:31 PM   #163 
  - Isn't that what the DLC was designed to do? nt  Lucky Luciano   Nov-26-11 10:40 PM   #43 
  - No. It was to neuter the Democratic Party.  No Elephants   Nov-28-11 04:29 AM   #185 
  - I strongly disagree.  JNelson6563   Nov-27-11 10:03 AM   #54 
  - Yep, "divide and conquer"  GoCubsGo   Nov-27-11 11:07 AM   #67 
  - But for your theory to work  hulka38   Nov-27-11 12:33 PM   #83 
  - "Lifelong Dems"  JNelson6563   Nov-27-11 01:25 PM   #97 
  - "real grown ups in the big campaigns" huh?  ZenaD   Nov-27-11 01:42 PM   #109 
  - Ther gaping hole in your rebuttal is that...  bvar22   Nov-27-11 02:58 PM   #147 
  - Excellent post, thank you.  sabrina 1   Nov-27-11 03:48 PM   #154 
  - Paul Krugman, who was their BFF during the health care debate is now UTB  ZenaD   Nov-27-11 03:52 PM   #158 
  - Whaddaya tryin' to do? Kill a meme?  No Elephants   Nov-28-11 04:37 AM   #186 
  - Yeah, those "real grown-ups" here in Michigan sure promoted our last candidate. NOT.  PassingFair   Nov-27-11 10:54 PM   #178 
  - Just because they are informed doesn't me they're immune to discouragement.  GoCubsGo   Nov-27-11 01:29 PM   #99 
  - + a brazillion  ZenaD   Nov-27-11 01:32 PM   #102 
  - Re "beholden", yeah, and We the People had absolutely nothing to do with the Dem's(or anyone-else's)  patrice   Nov-27-11 02:18 PM   #129 
  - This is a damn good post.  Enthusiast   Nov-27-11 02:24 PM   #131 
  - "...Work(ing) to co-opt..." can also result in being co-opted, another reason that it is avoided. It  patrice   Nov-27-11 01:01 PM   #89 
  - Wow, if only the WH, DNC, DSCC, DCCC etc  ZenaD   Nov-27-11 01:37 PM   #106 
  - Deleted message  Name removed   Nov-27-11 01:43 PM   #110 
     - I'm not a believer in supernatural phenomena  ZenaD   Nov-27-11 01:51 PM   #116 
  - So, can you give us some examples of these 'patterns' you see  sabrina 1   Nov-27-11 01:45 PM   #112 
  - Thank you. This is classic projection.  ZenaD   Nov-27-11 01:54 PM   #117 
  - Woo hooo!  Enthusiast   Nov-27-11 02:40 PM   #139 
     - "Party of Wall Street"  No Elephants   Nov-28-11 05:09 AM   #191 
  - Offering certain alternatives violates DU rules.  No Elephants   Nov-28-11 05:06 AM   #190 
  - That appears to be the M.O., BVar. n/t  Mimosa   Nov-27-11 10:11 AM   #57 
  - bvar22, it appears your strategy has been successfully employed.  Laelth   Nov-27-11 11:35 AM   #78 
  - Yeah. Relentlessly promote core GOP ideology under the "big tent" meme.  Zorra   Nov-27-11 11:38 AM   #79 
  - I agree with you, Bvar22. n/t  Blue_In_AK   Nov-27-11 01:08 PM   #91 
  - That's what I would do also. Infiltrate the party.  sabrina 1   Nov-27-11 01:32 PM   #103 
  - I really wish the DLC crowd would go back to the GOP where they belong  ZenaD   Nov-27-11 04:48 PM   #164 
  - Looks like you smoked a few out  Union Scribe   Nov-27-11 01:32 PM   #104 
  - Interesting video  No Elephants   Nov-28-11 05:05 AM   #189 
  - + 1,000  SpiralHawk   Nov-26-11 09:31 PM   #35 
  - Remember the clumsy anti-Tibet posts from new, low count posters right before the 2008 Olympics?  CreekDog   Nov-26-11 10:31 PM   #40 
  - It's painfully obvious this is true in responses to news articles posted at RoadRunner.  Pacifist Patriot   Nov-27-11 06:26 AM   #52 
  - I agree.  Rex   Nov-27-11 02:47 PM   #142 
  - Remember all the "fake commentators" on DU during the Fukushima Daiichi nuclear disaster?  lutefisk   Nov-26-11 03:12 PM   #7 
  - yup  nadinbrzezinski   Nov-26-11 03:14 PM   #8 
  - Watch the Iran commenters across the interwebs  sixmile   Nov-26-11 03:25 PM   #10 
  - They stand out like a sore thumb as do Chinese commenters.  snagglepuss   Nov-26-11 07:02 PM   #24 
  - I'd be especially wary of those fervently defending the government and/or bashing Israel....  AverageJoe90   Nov-27-11 11:03 PM   #180 
  - You meant THESE posts?  bvar22   Nov-26-11 05:18 PM   #18 
     - LOL You've summed them up in a nutshell  MichaelMcGuire   Nov-26-11 05:26 PM   #20 
     - 'However, fakes can be spotted by analysing their patterns of activity and the words they use ...  GeorgeGist   Nov-27-11 10:04 AM   #55 
     - And I'm wondering about the deadly exploding batteries in the  Sal Minella   Nov-26-11 05:55 PM   #22 
     - Or big phama. A few lurk regularly in the health forum  Lorien   Nov-27-11 11:13 AM   #69 
     - I've got some facebook friends who are pro-nuke zealots  ZenaD   Nov-27-11 01:58 PM   #120 
     - THAT'S THE ONES!  Rex   Nov-27-11 02:49 PM   #143 
  - They've swooped in destroyed Huffington Post... n/t  taught_me_patience   Nov-26-11 04:00 PM   #17 
  - Have you been over to "TPM's site recently?  KoKo   Nov-26-11 07:18 PM   #26 
  - HuffPo destroyed itself with fluff and woo.  Odin2005   Nov-26-11 08:46 PM   #32 
     - By selling out to AOL and not paying their writers. That was BS and made  cui bono   Nov-26-11 10:27 PM   #38 
     - True, but the paid trolls had already crapped the place up.  GoCubsGo   Nov-27-11 11:01 AM   #66 
     - Point taken!  Odin2005   Nov-27-11 01:19 PM   #92 
     - +1  No Elephants   Nov-28-11 05:00 AM   #188 
  - The bbc pretty much shuts off comment from their site anyway  MichaelMcGuire   Nov-26-11 05:24 PM   #19 
  - The 1% have LOTS of money to pay for this sort of thing, and I guarantee  kestrel91316   Nov-26-11 05:29 PM   #21 
  - .  fascisthunter   Nov-26-11 06:12 PM   #23 
  - Yep. And their main objective is to stop OWS. There are no other threats  Zorra   Nov-26-11 09:07 PM   #33 
     - I agree with you.  Enthusiast   Nov-27-11 02:51 PM   #145 
     - "They have no message."  bvar22   Nov-27-11 03:32 PM   #151 
  - Oh these "Bots" are all over the web on the most respectable of sites which one would  KoKo   Nov-26-11 07:16 PM   #25 
  - Gee, that doesn't sound like anyone here.  eShirl   Nov-26-11 08:29 PM   #29 
  - I think this thread if just fucking hilarious..  Fumesucker   Nov-26-11 08:39 PM   #30 
  - We have a bunch of them here bashing Progressives.  Odin2005   Nov-26-11 08:43 PM   #31 
  - Oh please...  ellisonz   Nov-26-11 09:59 PM   #36 
  - Really? Really.....  DainBramaged   Nov-26-11 10:31 PM   #41 
  - Somebody get this guy a helmet...  ellisonz   Nov-26-11 10:40 PM   #44 
  - Go back to sleep...............  DainBramaged   Nov-27-11 03:27 AM   #45 
  - I can't remember what the topic was now  JanMichael   Nov-27-11 06:03 AM   #50 
     - HFCS is big money, a major industry.  Mimosa   Nov-27-11 10:16 AM   #58 
        - I'll bet they succeed too.. and if by some miracle they don't win  russspeakeasy   Nov-27-11 11:18 AM   #73 
           - It gets discouraging when they succeed at everything.  Enthusiast   Nov-27-11 03:05 PM   #150 
  - There isn't?  Enthusiast   Nov-27-11 02:55 PM   #146 
  - +1  cui bono   Nov-26-11 10:30 PM   #39 
  - Yes, the Democratic party. Do you really think that pro-Obama posters are out of line  muriel_volestrangler   Nov-27-11 04:51 AM   #46 
  - Obama is solidly in the mainstream of the Democratic party - Sadly, This may be true  panzerfaust   Nov-27-11 06:03 AM   #49 
  - Support of those issues would mean the democratic party offers a genuine alternative. n/t  Mimosa   Nov-27-11 10:17 AM   #59 
     - "A genuine alternative" is undesirable to financial markets; and the golden rule prevails.  No Elephants   Nov-28-11 05:23 AM   #192 
  - The Democratic Party used to support "rights",  bvar22   Nov-27-11 11:13 AM   #70 
  - Free trade and austerity are mainstream Dem positions?  ZenaD   Nov-27-11 02:12 PM   #124 
  - Americans, especially Democratic Party Americans, HATE  Enthusiast   Nov-27-11 03:47 PM   #153 
  - You missed the memo!  a simple pattern   Nov-27-11 10:19 AM   #60 
  - How do you differentiate between "bashing" and horizontal processing? nt  patrice   Nov-27-11 01:25 PM   #96 
  - LOL, WUT?  Odin2005   Nov-27-11 01:40 PM   #108 
     - Horizontal, as in Occupation general assemblies, which include occupiers who disagree with one  patrice   Nov-27-11 01:47 PM   #113 
  - Fucking kidding?  bluestate10   Nov-27-11 06:29 PM   #166 
  - Deleted sub-thread  Name removed   Nov-26-11 09:12 PM   #34 
  - Go to any article on any mainstream newspaper or news site...  backscatter712   Nov-26-11 10:38 PM   #42 
  - I noticed that, backscatter712  a simple pattern   Nov-27-11 10:24 AM   #62 
  - Right here in River City  Jim Warren   Nov-27-11 04:54 AM   #47 
  - ??? The significance of this remark escapes me  panzerfaust   Nov-27-11 06:08 AM   #51 
     - DU must be designed wrong.  patrice   Nov-27-11 01:23 PM   #95 
  - Information provided by random, unknown persons is not to be trusted??  panzerfaust   Nov-27-11 05:49 AM   #48 
  - It's esp. obvious on smaller blogs when there are virtually NO comments on post after post,  snot   Nov-27-11 09:21 AM   #53 
  - Don't they mean bought and paid for right wing posters.  sarcasmo   Nov-27-11 10:06 AM   #56 
  - Paid posters should be required to disclose the fact. It's advertising, disguised as speech.  DirkGently   Nov-27-11 10:45 AM   #64 
  - Agreed. Instead one dare not even ask the question  Lorien   Nov-27-11 11:15 AM   #72 
  - That's one of the best ideas that I have heard on the subject.  Response   Nov-27-11 12:48 PM   #87 
  - I've often wondered why this area isn't regulated. Commerical speech should be transparent.  DirkGently   Nov-28-11 12:32 PM   #200 
  - Much can be revealed by asking them questions. A poster can refuse to answer just so often before  patrice   Nov-27-11 01:28 PM   #98 
  - That is true. Eg, anyone who will not support SS, Medicare  sabrina 1   Nov-27-11 01:49 PM   #114 
     - Oh! I'm a Medicare Reform supporter. Have SEEN it up close and personal.  patrice   Nov-27-11 01:56 PM   #119 
     - So what does the proposed deep cut to providers have to do with eliminating fraud?  ZenaD   Nov-27-11 02:16 PM   #128 
     - If you'll look at HR 676, I think you'll find payments in general to be reviewed, this would include  patrice   Nov-27-11 02:25 PM   #132 
     - AND - This isn't just about fraud. Have you ever been around a CMS reporting system?  patrice   Nov-27-11 02:28 PM   #133 
     - No I haven't. Can you explain how cuts to providers will adress that?  ZenaD   Nov-27-11 02:30 PM   #136 
        - I think you can read the bill and decide for yourself, can't you? I have to take some food to our  patrice   Nov-27-11 02:35 PM   #137 
           - HR676? Are we getting Medicare for all with this provider cut?  ZenaD   Nov-27-11 02:46 PM   #141 
     - Physicians for a National Health Program: HR 676 Expanded & Improved Medicare for All Act  patrice   Nov-27-11 02:30 PM   #134 
     - The point being, if cuts are appropriate, they'll be proportional to their in-efficiencies.  patrice   Nov-27-11 02:30 PM   #135 
     - Heh  ZenaD   Nov-27-11 02:49 PM   #144 
     - Please source "deep". Thanks! nt  patrice   Nov-27-11 02:39 PM   #138 
     - Well, I didn't address that in my comment. My point was that  sabrina 1   Nov-27-11 03:42 PM   #152 
     - No one should be against your Medicare proposals.  Enthusiast   Nov-27-11 03:55 PM   #160 
     - Doing one's best to eliminate fraud and waste in a program is not "reforming" that program.  No Elephants   Nov-28-11 05:36 AM   #193 
        - Agreed. nt  Enthusiast   Nov-28-11 08:53 AM   #197 
     - Please see Reply 195,  No Elephants   Nov-28-11 05:39 AM   #194 
     - BTW, after passage of the ACA, Bernie Sanders said he supported Medicare reform and he  patrice   Nov-27-11 01:59 PM   #121 
        - He does not support raising the age as is now being proposed.  sabrina 1   Nov-27-11 03:51 PM   #156 
  - Plus one!  Enthusiast   Nov-27-11 03:52 PM   #157 
  - I call them on it when I run into them on my local paper's board.  BiggJawn   Nov-27-11 10:52 AM   #65 
  - I'm going to have to remember that one.  GoCubsGo   Nov-27-11 11:09 AM   #68 
  - Deleted sub-thread  Name removed   Nov-27-11 01:29 PM   #101 
  - The editorials in the papers around here are nothing but regurgitated press releases.  ZenaD   Nov-27-11 02:18 PM   #130 
  - And the fakers here to direct what they don't like to other forums to keep attention off  DainBramaged   Nov-27-11 11:14 AM   #71 
  - One way to identify them; they generally post about a single issue, and never  Lorien   Nov-27-11 11:18 AM   #74 
  - Here's some great info from an earlier post on a different thread,  Zorra   Nov-27-11 01:20 PM   #94 
  - Wow. Fascinating. Thanks for that, hadn't seen it the first time around.  cui bono   Nov-27-11 03:55 PM   #159 
  - There's a reason that earlier thread is in the Woo-Woo Dungeon...nt  SidDithers   Nov-27-11 07:57 PM   #169 
     - No, the thread I'm speaking of was actually posted today, a bit after this one.  Zorra   Nov-27-11 08:40 PM   #172 
        - Just following the link you provided in your post...  SidDithers   Nov-27-11 08:52 PM   #174 
  - LOL, Lorien. You nailed it.  Mimosa   Nov-27-11 03:02 PM   #148 
  - The word troll is arguably one of the most overused words on the itnernet.  Quartermass   Nov-27-11 11:20 AM   #75 
  - Somebody paid you to say that, didn't they?  MilesColtrane   Nov-27-11 11:39 AM   #81 
  - We need a troll sub-species for these people. Anyone have a good name?  jimlup   Nov-27-11 11:26 AM   #76 
  - Here's one: Stupidius trollius. xD  AverageJoe90   Nov-27-11 11:04 PM   #181 
  - talk radio paid callers is good value. & citizens united money means going to see a lot more of both  certainot   Nov-27-11 11:47 AM   #82 
  - remember - the one absolute proof of someone being a troll is that they deny being a troll  Douglas Carpenter   Nov-27-11 12:40 PM   #85 
  - Lol!  sabrina 1   Nov-27-11 01:55 PM   #118 
  - Good one, Douglas.  Enthusiast   Nov-27-11 04:17 PM   #162 
  - LOL! n/t  tammywammy   Nov-27-11 11:39 PM   #183 
  - Let's face it. Corporations all have their agents, provocateurs and crumbots.  caseymoz   Nov-27-11 12:47 PM   #86 
  - I trust posters here and huffpo  PatrynXX   Nov-27-11 01:05 PM   #90 
  - a couple more threads discussing this topic  darth marth   Nov-27-11 01:19 PM   #93 
  - Lol! you beat me by a minute  Zorra   Nov-27-11 01:38 PM   #107 
  - + a million - Should be required reading here. AND WE SHOULD DISCUSS this kind of stuff when we  patrice   Nov-27-11 01:44 PM   #111 
  - I laugh when posters pull threads from the Conspiracy Theory dungeon to try to prove their point...  SidDithers   Nov-27-11 07:59 PM   #170 
  - "Hey, look, ma! It's another red herring!"  Zorra   Nov-27-11 08:49 PM   #173 
     - BHN's thread wasn't posted in the Conspiracy Theory forum...  SidDithers   Nov-27-11 08:56 PM   #176 
        - And that proves what? That's actually extremely disturbing when you think about it.  Zorra   Nov-27-11 11:33 PM   #182 
  - Fast simple rules to make your DU less polluted by paid trolls...  Evasporque   Nov-28-11 09:19 AM   #198 
  - Won't work  aletier_v   Nov-27-11 01:50 PM   #115 
  - Agree. Software won't work. You have to do it yourself.  McCamy Taylor   Nov-27-11 02:11 PM   #123 
  - Here is my fool proof plan for messing with the corporatew poster. Figure out which industry  McCamy Taylor   Nov-27-11 02:10 PM   #122 
  - Another clue: anyone whose detailed knowledge of an industry or issue seems at odds with his "just  McCamy Taylor   Nov-27-11 02:14 PM   #126 
  - "Anyone who posts anything in support of China's occupation of Tibet is a paid Chinese poster"...  SidDithers   Nov-27-11 08:02 PM   #171 
  - Yes, I don't even bother anymore at the local paper....  WCGreen   Nov-27-11 03:04 PM   #149 
  - I remember reading a hilariously dishonest example a few months ago.  chrisa   Nov-27-11 03:48 PM   #155 
  - Some of it, I think, is driven by a weird form of actual mental illness  Warren DeMontague   Nov-27-11 07:47 PM   #168 
  - Spot on...  Bobbie Jo   Nov-27-11 08:54 PM   #175 
  - Ha!  Number23   Nov-27-11 10:34 PM   #177 
  - Yup...  SidDithers   Nov-28-11 08:02 AM   #195 
  - They'll post at wee-hours to have the "last word" for at least a few hours too.  Populist_Prole   Nov-28-11 04:26 PM   #202 
  - I guess that's 62.43% of the people on DU including me  snooper2   Nov-28-11 08:38 AM   #196 
 

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