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Reply #25: That's reasonable--this mother isn't--- [View All]

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msanthrope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-20-11 05:04 PM
Response to Reply #17
25. That's reasonable--this mother isn't---
Amy Chua was in a restaurant, celebrating her birthday with her husband and daughters, Sophia, seven, and Lulu, four. "Lulu handed me her 'surprise', which turned out to be a card," writes Chua in her explosive new memoir, Battle Hymn of the Tiger Mother. "More accurately, it was a piece of paper folded crookedly in half, with a big happy face on the front. Inside, 'Happy Birthday, Mummy! Love, Lulu' was scrawled in crayon above another happy face. I gave the card back to Lulu. 'I don't want this,' I said. 'I want a better one one that you've put some thought and effort into. I have a special box, where I keep all my cards from you and Sophia, and this one can't go in there.' I grabbed the card again and flipped it over. I pulled out a pen and scrawled 'Happy Birthday Lulu Whoopee!' I added a big sour face. 'I reject this.'"

When Lulu turns in a poor practice session on the piano, Chua hauls her doll's house to the car and tells her she'll donate it to the Salvation Army piece by piece if she doesn't have The Little White Donkey mastered by the next day. When Sophia does the same, she screams: "If the next time's not perfect, I'm going to take all your stuffed animals and burn them."

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  -Teachers are not pushing our kids far enough nadinbrzezinski  Jan-20-11 04:48 PM   #0 
  - It's been that way for about 20 years,  virgogal   Jan-20-11 04:52 PM   #1 
  - I am willing to go all the way back to Reagan  nadinbrzezinski   Jan-20-11 04:53 PM   #3 
  - I'm not so sure that the "Chinese Mother" approach yields children who can think for themselves..  Fumesucker   Jan-20-11 04:52 PM   #2 
  - Yep, I guess I was a very unhappy kid  nadinbrzezinski   Jan-20-11 04:54 PM   #6 
  - So your experiences are valid for everyone?  Fumesucker   Jan-20-11 04:56 PM   #9 
  - My experience is like most kids around the world  nadinbrzezinski   Jan-20-11 04:57 PM   #11 
     - I'm definitely a believer in a good educational system.  Fumesucker   Jan-20-11 05:00 PM   #18 
     - Mine wasn't  nadinbrzezinski   Jan-20-11 05:01 PM   #20 
        - I was responding to the specifics of the Chinese mother you wrote about in the OP..  Fumesucker   Jan-20-11 05:22 PM   #41 
           - And I am amused that while we go ballistic on her  nadinbrzezinski   Jan-20-11 05:25 PM   #44 
              - I've spoken up on a number of education threads recently..  Fumesucker   Jan-20-11 05:39 PM   #63 
                 - Let me try to explain this, since obviously you are fixing on her  nadinbrzezinski   Jan-20-11 05:43 PM   #69 
                    - I've spoken up about the things you mention..  Fumesucker   Jan-20-11 05:52 PM   #80 
                    - +1  smokey nj   Jan-20-11 05:53 PM   #82 
                    - That was the point though,  nadinbrzezinski   Jan-20-11 05:56 PM   #87 
                    - no. i see no relation whatsoever between the chinese mother & the fact that the us is cutting  Hannah Bell   Jan-20-11 06:29 PM   #113 
     - bullshit.  Hannah Bell   Jan-20-11 06:28 PM   #110 
     - I think religion-think creationist & dominionist types, home schooling, &  StarsInHerHair   Jan-20-11 06:32 PM   #115 
  - Deleted sub-thread  Name removed   Jan-20-11 06:03 PM   #95 
  - 1 son has a 4.0 GPA BSME the other @ 13yrs is building a turbine engine  FreakinDJ   Jan-20-11 05:00 PM   #17 
  - THANK YOU  nadinbrzezinski   Jan-20-11 05:00 PM   #19 
  - but but .... Jet Turbines can be way cool  FreakinDJ   Jan-20-11 05:03 PM   #23 
  - That's reasonable--this mother isn't---  msanthrope   Jan-20-11 05:04 PM   #25 
  - that's just sick.  cali   Jan-20-11 05:08 PM   #29 
  - She's a sick, twisted individual....making a buck over her self-absoprtion. Nothing more American  msanthrope   Jan-20-11 05:14 PM   #37 
     - +1  Innoma   Jan-20-11 05:36 PM   #60 
  - Where the hell is Child Protective Services?  Odin2005   Jan-20-11 05:17 PM   #39 
  - On what grounds?  cleanhippie   Jan-20-11 06:15 PM   #103 
     - Emotional abuse isn't abuse to you?  Odin2005   Jan-20-11 06:45 PM   #127 
        - It is abuse. You're absolutely right. It's why I'm absolutely sickened by the OP.  Pithlet   Jan-20-11 08:16 PM   #172 
  - There will ALWAYS be an example of someone taking things to the extreme.  cleanhippie   Jan-20-11 06:14 PM   #101 
  - I've seen kids from the very same family take very different paths..  Fumesucker   Jan-20-11 05:07 PM   #27 
  - That would be my oldest - he drives a truck  FreakinDJ   Jan-20-11 05:10 PM   #32 
  - We need more dads like you!  Codeine   Jan-20-11 05:31 PM   #54 
  - Correct. But it does, apparently, yield a child who is technically superior to  jtuck004   Jan-20-11 07:02 PM   #140 
     - Japan has been re-examining the system  nadinbrzezinski   Jan-20-11 07:22 PM   #151 
        - imho, its what they emphasize. Math, science, finance, some music  jtuck004   Jan-20-11 07:55 PM   #166 
  - I like to think that the sleep-overs my sons enjoy as part of their socialization actually helps  villager   Jan-20-11 04:53 PM   #4 
  - Yes, but the curriculum, when compared to other places  nadinbrzezinski   Jan-20-11 04:55 PM   #7 
  - Latin was a required course in my dad's day  texastoast   Jan-20-11 04:53 PM   #5 
  - My mom's HS work in the 40s at the American School  nadinbrzezinski   Jan-20-11 04:56 PM   #10 
  - It was required in mine, too. n/t  msanthrope   Jan-20-11 04:58 PM   #13 
  - My mom was required to take Latin as well - in a small high school in Wisconsin.  TBF   Jan-20-11 05:04 PM   #24 
  - My ex-father-in-law was from a small rancho town in Mexico.  Codeine   Jan-20-11 05:41 PM   #66 
  - The difference between making a life...  Davis_X_Machina   Jan-20-11 07:04 PM   #141 
  - In many parts of the country, most young people did not graduate from high school  Nikia   Jan-20-11 07:38 PM   #162 
  - refusing your small child bathroom breaks until she nails a difficult violin piece is child abuse.  msanthrope   Jan-20-11 04:56 PM   #8 
  - Yes, why kids at Bangalore, and Xinxua where they understand  nadinbrzezinski   Jan-20-11 04:58 PM   #15 
  - She doesn't believe in anything but herself--it's classic narcissism,  msanthrope   Jan-20-11 05:02 PM   #21 
  - I am telling you that this is why we  nadinbrzezinski   Jan-20-11 05:04 PM   #26 
  - which is why kids from all over the world want to go to Harvard and M.I.T.  cali   Jan-20-11 05:11 PM   #33 
  - That is increasingly less true every year.  MedicalAdmin   Jan-20-11 07:20 PM   #149 
  - Great. Now insult Jewish people, along with the Chinese---  msanthrope   Jan-20-11 05:12 PM   #35 
  - That is your opinion  nadinbrzezinski   Jan-20-11 05:16 PM   #38 
     - Did the Jews you grew up with threaten to burn your possessions? Call you 'garbage?'  msanthrope   Jan-20-11 05:23 PM   #42 
        - While you focus on her I focused on cultural values  nadinbrzezinski   Jan-20-11 05:26 PM   #47 
           - The only cultural value Amy Chua represents is American narcissism and how to make a buck off it.  msanthrope   Jan-20-11 05:32 PM   #55 
              - and... re-read the OP  nadinbrzezinski   Jan-20-11 05:44 PM   #71 
  - No, that's why they will fall behind further  treestar   Jan-20-11 06:02 PM   #94 
  - Great ideas. Excellent points. Fab analysis.. And a crappy example.  MedicalAdmin   Jan-20-11 07:18 PM   #147 
     - She is extreme, she is in the media  nadinbrzezinski   Jan-20-11 07:24 PM   #152 
        - It's a shame.  MedicalAdmin   Jan-20-11 07:37 PM   #161 
           - Nah the idea of the post was to highlight  nadinbrzezinski   Jan-20-11 07:41 PM   #163 
  - +1000  cali   Jan-20-11 05:10 PM   #31 
  - I think she's using "believing in education" as an excuse to be a control freak.  Hello_Kitty   Jan-20-11 05:57 PM   #88 
  - We don't believe in education as a culture?  Pithlet   Jan-20-11 07:57 PM   #167 
  - What a bitch.  Lucian   Jan-20-11 05:32 PM   #56 
  - Amen! What a fuckn' lunatic  treestar   Jan-20-11 06:00 PM   #91 
  - Socrates:  Sancho   Jan-20-11 04:57 PM   #12 
  - I've Read Dozens of Responses to this Article  On the Road   Jan-20-11 08:16 PM   #171 
  - my kids gets up at 5:30. starts day at 6:30. i dont pick him up until after 5:30  seabeyond   Jan-20-11 04:58 PM   #14 
  - I don't believe you are the average  nadinbrzezinski   Jan-20-11 04:59 PM   #16 
  - i hear ya. i have been saying over and over, the opportunity for education is there. i know  seabeyond   Jan-20-11 05:03 PM   #22 
  - +1  Codeine   Jan-20-11 05:35 PM   #59 
     - and why you had the incentive, dont know. but exactly. school wasnt the priority in our house  seabeyond   Jan-20-11 07:18 PM   #148 
  - btw... pta, i was tellin principal.... MORE homework. and telling teachers  seabeyond   Jan-20-11 05:07 PM   #28 
     - And there lies part of the problem  nadinbrzezinski   Jan-20-11 05:09 PM   #30 
     - another thing i realized nad. by 7th grade they barely take time to teach to tests  seabeyond   Jan-20-11 07:28 PM   #157 
     - As a former teacher who was the toughest most demanding ...  MedicalAdmin   Jan-20-11 07:30 PM   #158 
     - what happened to kids having time to be kids?  Odin2005   Jan-20-11 06:48 PM   #129 
        - weekends. but they arent little kids anymore. they are almost adults. they want  seabeyond   Jan-20-11 07:20 PM   #150 
        - Kids mostly don't exercise imagination anymore.  Codeine   Jan-20-11 07:33 PM   #159 
  - Wow. What grade is he in?  GreenPartyVoter   Jan-20-11 05:23 PM   #43 
     - sophmore. all AP course so lots of tough work. cross country and track  seabeyond   Jan-20-11 05:26 PM   #46 
        - Yeah, mine get up around 6:00am or 6:30am most days. The older one is in 7th grade  GreenPartyVoter   Jan-20-11 05:33 PM   #57 
           - i have one in 7th and it does get tough. what i see is 7th is when it starts.  seabeyond   Jan-20-11 07:25 PM   #153 
              - Yeah, he's very self-driven. Has already mapped out a plan for how long it  GreenPartyVoter   Jan-20-11 08:37 PM   #175 
  - Very good OP -  TBF   Jan-20-11 05:11 PM   #34 
  - Sorry, but that mother is an emotionally absuive monster.  Odin2005   Jan-20-11 05:14 PM   #36 
  - So let me get this straight  nadinbrzezinski   Jan-20-11 05:20 PM   #40 
     - I knew it--you don't actually have kids.....Jeebus.....  msanthrope   Jan-20-11 05:29 PM   #50 
     - I got nephews, and your point  nadinbrzezinski   Jan-20-11 05:30 PM   #52 
     - So not abusing kids is coddling?  Odin2005   Jan-20-11 05:39 PM   #64 
     - Don't you get it? There's no middle ground. Either you have to totally abuse your children to make  Brickbat   Jan-20-11 05:40 PM   #65 
     - Heh, I'm of the opinion that kids should not let their schooling get in the way of their education.  Odin2005   Jan-20-11 05:44 PM   #70 
     - You do not need to abuse them to push them  nadinbrzezinski   Jan-20-11 05:42 PM   #68 
        - This woman isn't pushing her kid, she is abusing her.  Odin2005   Jan-20-11 05:46 PM   #72 
           - Try this, forget her... compare academics  nadinbrzezinski   Jan-20-11 05:47 PM   #75 
              - The much-vaunted East Asian educational systems are all about rote learning and obedience...  Odin2005   Jan-20-11 05:53 PM   #83 
              - Tell me where are they right now?  nadinbrzezinski   Jan-20-11 05:58 PM   #89 
                 - you don't know what you're talking about. no clue whatsoever.  Hannah Bell   Jan-20-11 06:34 PM   #118 
                 - I agree  MedicalAdmin   Jan-20-11 07:46 PM   #164 
              - If we have to be abusive assholes to kids to be "number one" who needs it?  Hello_Kitty   Jan-20-11 06:10 PM   #98 
              - How about funding schools?  nadinbrzezinski   Jan-20-11 06:13 PM   #100 
                 - All of those things are great  Hello_Kitty   Jan-20-11 06:27 PM   #109 
                    - Since this is not about her, try again  nadinbrzezinski   Jan-20-11 06:28 PM   #111 
                       - You're the one who brought her up. You're the one who made it about her.  smokey nj   Jan-20-11 06:37 PM   #123 
                          - I used how she is being attacked and the SUBTEXT  nadinbrzezinski   Jan-20-11 06:42 PM   #125 
                             - You should have chosen a better example.  smokey nj   Jan-20-11 06:52 PM   #132 
                                - Since that is what the media is talking about  nadinbrzezinski   Jan-20-11 06:55 PM   #133 
              - bullshit.  Hannah Bell   Jan-20-11 06:33 PM   #117 
     - Then tell us about your bilingual, music playing nephews, and how they could benefit from Chua's  msanthrope   Jan-20-11 05:54 PM   #85 
        - Your problem is not the methods  nadinbrzezinski   Jan-20-11 06:47 PM   #128 
           - You are putting words into people's mouths, Nadin. Shame on you.  Odin2005   Jan-20-11 06:52 PM   #131 
           - I am not  nadinbrzezinski   Jan-20-11 06:56 PM   #134 
              - But you are.  MedicalAdmin   Jan-20-11 07:53 PM   #165 
                 - No I wont, in fact, I am about to ask the admins to just lock the damn thread  nadinbrzezinski   Jan-20-11 07:57 PM   #168 
                 - THANK YOU!  smokey nj   Jan-20-11 08:17 PM   #173 
           - Dude, my aspie kid is fluent in another language, and plays piano  msanthrope   Jan-20-11 07:12 PM   #143 
              - Did I say you got to threaten your kid? NO  nadinbrzezinski   Jan-20-11 07:17 PM   #146 
                 - Please do not blame the posters on this thread for failing to 'get' an OP  msanthrope   Jan-20-11 08:43 PM   #177 
     - +1  demmiblue   Jan-20-11 05:51 PM   #78 
     - Most homework is useless BS busywork. IMO kids are getting way to much.  Odin2005   Jan-20-11 05:37 PM   #62 
     - Yes it is insanity  nadinbrzezinski   Jan-20-11 05:46 PM   #73 
        - The HELL if it isn't.  Odin2005   Jan-20-11 05:50 PM   #77 
           - Ah... poor kid  nadinbrzezinski   Jan-20-11 05:55 PM   #86 
     - and you don't even HAVE kids? wowza that's rich...  dionysus   Jan-20-11 06:07 PM   #96 
     - it is, isn't it?  cali   Jan-20-11 06:08 PM   #97 
     - Careful, some wil call you a "child abuser" for that!  cleanhippie   Jan-20-11 06:17 PM   #104 
        - Yep, implied  nadinbrzezinski   Jan-20-11 06:32 PM   #116 
  - One can treat school as a serious matter and allow sleepovers, encourage outside activities and  Brickbat   Jan-20-11 05:25 PM   #45 
  - And while the US contnues to decline  nadinbrzezinski   Jan-20-11 05:29 PM   #51 
     - Are you seriously saying this woman's book is a Sputnik moment?  Brickbat   Jan-20-11 05:37 PM   #61 
        - No, it is not her  nadinbrzezinski   Jan-20-11 05:41 PM   #67 
        - Using Amy Chua's example as a way to point out how the American attitude toward education is flawed  Brickbat   Jan-20-11 05:53 PM   #81 
           - +1  smokey nj   Jan-20-11 05:54 PM   #84 
           - Again re-read what I said  nadinbrzezinski   Jan-20-11 06:00 PM   #92 
              - She is, indeed, a distraction.  Brickbat   Jan-20-11 06:19 PM   #107 
                 - +1  smokey nj   Jan-20-11 06:29 PM   #112 
                 - Well indeed, why we are still not discussing closing schools  nadinbrzezinski   Jan-20-11 06:35 PM   #119 
                    - OK, now you're just talking in circles.  Brickbat   Jan-20-11 08:36 PM   #174 
        - +1. I resoundingly agree.  cali   Jan-20-11 05:48 PM   #76 
  - Every time I push a kid in my class they start whining about their "right to be pushed"  Bucky   Jan-20-11 05:26 PM   #48 
  - my family valued and stressed education, but behaved nothing like she advocates  fishwax   Jan-20-11 05:28 PM   #49 
  - One of my favorite books: The Age of American Unreason by Susan Jacoby  ashling   Jan-20-11 05:31 PM   #53 
  - Absolutely a must read  nadinbrzezinski   Jan-20-11 05:46 PM   #74 
  - I thought we didn't need algebra. I read it here. nt  Obamanaut   Jan-20-11 05:34 PM   #58 
  - I agree our schools should be better, but there is one big problem that remains.  JVS   Jan-20-11 05:51 PM   #79 
  - That is where we need to put pressure to change our  nadinbrzezinski   Jan-20-11 06:01 PM   #93 
  - "Pushing" never works  treestar   Jan-20-11 05:59 PM   #90 
  - Bravo!  cleanhippie   Jan-20-11 06:12 PM   #99 
  - methinks I touched a raw nerve though  nadinbrzezinski   Jan-20-11 06:15 PM   #102 
     - You certainly did.  cleanhippie   Jan-20-11 06:18 PM   #105 
     - the "raw nerve" is your post is illogical & contains errors of fact, as does your defense.  Hannah Bell   Jan-20-11 06:35 PM   #120 
  - I don't think so.  rug   Jan-20-11 06:19 PM   #106 
  - America has a lot of different mini-cultures going on, unlike China, which is  Liquorice   Jan-20-11 06:26 PM   #108 
  - It is not a paragon of what we need to do  nadinbrzezinski   Jan-20-11 06:30 PM   #114 
  - I agree with you actually. I was just making the point that there are parents  Liquorice   Jan-20-11 06:36 PM   #121 
  - china has many "mini-cultures," more so than the us.  Hannah Bell   Jan-20-11 06:36 PM   #122 
  - As a teacher, I largely agree  TeacherB87   Jan-20-11 06:39 PM   #124 
  - Oh and corny as it will sound  nadinbrzezinski   Jan-20-11 06:43 PM   #126 
  - My kids' piano teacher sent me a link to the Tiger Mom article. She said it really resonated with  MissB   Jan-20-11 06:52 PM   #130 
  - A parent telling their kid that a 99% grade is not good enough is an asshole.  Odin2005   Jan-20-11 06:58 PM   #136 
  - There is always balance  nadinbrzezinski   Jan-20-11 07:01 PM   #139 
  - Goddamn...  Innoma   Jan-20-11 06:56 PM   #135 
  - You need to post more. n/t  msanthrope   Jan-20-11 06:58 PM   #137 
  - Nobody said adopt her methods  nadinbrzezinski   Jan-20-11 06:59 PM   #138 
     - Why is the press covering it in such a bad way?  Pithlet   Jan-20-11 08:03 PM   #170 
  - When do they have time to challenge students?  Canuckistanian   Jan-20-11 07:11 PM   #142 
  - And that is part of our social mores  nadinbrzezinski   Jan-20-11 07:13 PM   #144 
  - that is another thing. i have found by 7th grade,no longer taking the time to teach to tak tests  seabeyond   Jan-20-11 07:27 PM   #155 
  - and when they do, parents howl with rage over all that extra work  SoCalDem   Jan-20-11 07:16 PM   #145 
  - Why I said it is not them teachers  nadinbrzezinski   Jan-20-11 07:25 PM   #154 
     - I'd like to know what you base this judgment on, exactly.  Pithlet   Jan-20-11 08:43 PM   #176 
  - My entire house was a noisy playground and sleepover.  hunter   Jan-20-11 07:28 PM   #156 
  - Rec'd in vain. n/t  Catherina   Jan-20-11 07:37 PM   #160 
  - I rarely unrec, but I enthusiastically unreced this one.  Pithlet   Jan-20-11 07:58 PM   #169 
  - The OP of this thread has asked that we lock it.  greatauntoftriplets   Jan-20-11 08:46 PM   #178 

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