pnwmom
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Tue Jan-18-11 04:26 PM
Response to Reply #15 |
| 19. No. And the mandate doesn't require anyone to buy insurance. |
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It only requires them to pay an excise tax which they won't have to pay if they can show they have insurance.
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| -CNN poll: Half favor repealing health care law. Which is why we should compromise and repeal the |
grahamhgreen |
Jan-18-11 03:20 PM |
#0 |
 -
No more polls |
bluestateguy |
Jan-18-11 03:23 PM |
#1 |
| -
The mandate is important to the overall bill |
Schema Thing |
Jan-18-11 03:25 PM |
#2 |
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The mandate is ONLY important to for-profit insurance corporations |
leftstreet |
Jan-18-11 03:28 PM |
#3 |
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Not true |
Schema Thing |
Jan-18-11 03:55 PM |
#10 |
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"If I'm going to have to get my health insurance from a for profit..." |
leftstreet |
Jan-18-11 04:24 PM |
#17 |
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I didn't lose you. You are going to deal with the system we have |
Schema Thing |
Jan-18-11 04:59 PM |
#24 |
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You're basically right. The Democrats took Single Payer off the table |
leftstreet |
Jan-18-11 05:34 PM |
#48 |
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they "took it off the table" because about 5 people in the senate caucus supported it. |
dionysus |
Jan-18-11 08:37 PM |
#103 |
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And they arrested the Single Payer advocates |
leftstreet |
Jan-18-11 09:31 PM |
#112 |
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Except that forcing people to buy a consumer product is unconstitutional |
derby378 |
Jan-18-11 06:49 PM |
#67 |
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Dealing with the system we have means preventing the repubs from repealing the whole bill, |
grahamhgreen |
Jan-18-11 06:56 PM |
#70 |
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A form of single payer has taken hold - it's called Medicare |
dflprincess |
Jan-18-11 07:59 PM |
#89 |
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oh please. You may as well be on Free Republic to say: |
Schema Thing |
Jan-18-11 08:29 PM |
#99 |
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I gather your employer has not moved to one of those delightful "Consumer Driven Health Plans" |
dflprincess |
Jan-18-11 08:41 PM |
#105 |
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Oh I see... you've had the tastiest insurance through your employer |
Schema Thing |
Jan-18-11 09:27 PM |
#111 |
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Obama and the alleged Democrats in Congress are the ones who have |
dflprincess |
Jan-18-11 09:47 PM |
#120 |
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obama did that singlehandedly huh? he could have strongarmed our entire caucus to make it so? |
dionysus |
Jan-18-11 08:39 PM |
#104 |
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He could have vetoed the bill |
dflprincess |
Jan-18-11 09:04 PM |
#110 |
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single payer never had the support to get out of committee. you can disbelieve simple facts if it |
dionysus |
Jan-19-11 12:17 PM |
#135 |
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That's why the Public Option should have been included. |
PassingFair |
Jan-18-11 08:47 PM |
#108 |
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Well without a mandate the insurance companies would have to attract those clients |
Hello_Kitty |
Jan-18-11 05:39 PM |
#51 |
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Ins. co's get by quite well now w/o those clients |
Schema Thing |
Jan-18-11 08:23 PM |
#97 |
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Those young people are going to be one of the most heavily subsidized groups |
Hello_Kitty |
Jan-18-11 08:35 PM |
#102 |
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I couldn't agree more. The thougt that big insurance will |
grahamhgreen |
Jan-19-11 02:00 PM |
#145 |
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And how are those people who cannot afford it now, |
sabrina 1 |
Jan-19-11 12:59 PM |
#139 |
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Co-ops |
vi5 |
Jan-18-11 03:33 PM |
#6 |
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As I understand it.. |
Schema Thing |
Jan-18-11 03:59 PM |
#12 |
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The 'not for profits' already exist and already have |
GinaMaria |
Jan-18-11 05:07 PM |
#25 |
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No. This is something completely different. |
Schema Thing |
Jan-18-11 05:13 PM |
#30 |
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Actually, it's BCBS that's working on it right now |
GinaMaria |
Jan-18-11 05:16 PM |
#34 |
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We already had co-ops BEFORE the HCR bill. |
bvar22 |
Jan-18-11 07:22 PM |
#79 |
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We have "co ops" now. They are not and have never been a "public option". |
TheKentuckian |
Jan-18-11 07:54 PM |
#88 |
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Really? Could you give an example of a co-op |
Schema Thing |
Jan-18-11 08:34 PM |
#101 |
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Medicare for All? Public option?? |
subterranean |
Jan-18-11 03:29 PM |
#4 |
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Assuming that eliminating the mandate would result |
grahamhgreen |
Jan-18-11 05:25 PM |
#42 |
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If you eliminate the mandate for this |
kctim |
Jan-18-11 03:32 PM |
#5 |
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If people understood it, you wouldn't have to fight for it |
leftstreet |
Jan-18-11 03:35 PM |
#8 |
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No matter how you spin the name |
kctim |
Jan-18-11 03:49 PM |
#9 |
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What was passed already resulted in a pay cut for me |
GinaMaria |
Jan-18-11 05:11 PM |
#27 |
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at BCBS? |
Schema Thing |
Jan-18-11 08:43 PM |
#106 |
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Yep. Due to the provision in HCR around MLR |
GinaMaria |
Jan-18-11 09:51 PM |
#121 |
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We are talking of the government mandate |
kctim |
Jan-19-11 09:30 AM |
#131 |
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"the loss of free choice, not money" |
GinaMaria |
Jan-19-11 09:53 AM |
#132 |
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That is you're opinion |
kctim |
Jan-19-11 12:25 PM |
#136 |
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Do you have a jump to conclusions mat? |
GinaMaria |
Jan-19-11 04:37 PM |
#166 |
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There is no mandate for single payer |
grahamhgreen |
Jan-19-11 02:04 PM |
#146 |
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Repeal the mandate...but as somone who HAS gotten insurance as a result of reform... |
NuclearDem |
Jan-18-11 03:34 PM |
#7 |
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Glad to hear that you have benefitted... but your throwing under the bus the mandates |
salin |
Jan-18-11 09:02 PM |
#109 |
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Eliminating the mandate will not eliminate the other reforms in the bill. |
grahamhgreen |
Jan-19-11 02:35 PM |
#148 |
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How can you repeal the mandate and not the pre-existing condition change? |
Still a Democrat |
Jan-18-11 03:58 PM |
#11 |
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Exactly. n/t |
pnwmom |
Jan-18-11 04:20 PM |
#14 |
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How? By compromising with the Republicans who claim |
grahamhgreen |
Jan-18-11 05:08 PM |
#26 |
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What stops them now? 85% of the country has coverage, with no mandate. |
Hello_Kitty |
Jan-18-11 05:40 PM |
#53 |
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Precisely! |
markpkessinger |
Jan-18-11 06:18 PM |
#58 |
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Are you saying that without the mandate, big insurance will go bankrupt? |
grahamhgreen |
Jan-18-11 06:51 PM |
#68 |
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I'll say that but not for the same reasons |
dflprincess |
Jan-18-11 08:23 PM |
#95 |
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The mandate doesn't prevent people from buying insurance only after they get sick. |
girl gone mad |
Jan-18-11 06:39 PM |
#62 |
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The fine is just stupid for the low income people who qualify for subsidies |
Hello_Kitty |
Jan-18-11 06:47 PM |
#66 |
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Very good point! |
grahamhgreen |
Jan-18-11 06:52 PM |
#69 |
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But you'd be paying the fine indefinitely before you get sick and seek insurance |
Still a Democrat |
Jan-18-11 08:04 PM |
#91 |
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Right. People are just irrational about it. |
treestar |
Jan-18-11 07:24 PM |
#81 |
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No, people don't want to be forced to pay for services that they never recieve from |
grahamhgreen |
Jan-18-11 07:27 PM |
#84 |
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You know I've been through all this before when the law was being passed |
treestar |
Jan-18-11 07:37 PM |
#85 |
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It's not that the never cover anything, it's just that they |
grahamhgreen |
Jan-18-11 07:45 PM |
#87 |
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Have you read the portion of the bill that deals with insurers denying claims? |
BzaDem |
Jan-18-11 09:34 PM |
#113 |
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Yes. They can still deny claims if they claim that the patient has committed |
grahamhgreen |
Jan-19-11 01:48 PM |
#142 |
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Repealing the mandate would be as silly as deciding no one |
pnwmom |
Jan-18-11 04:18 PM |
#13 |
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(you changed your title) So, is Medicare a for-profit system? |
leftstreet |
Jan-18-11 04:22 PM |
#15 |
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And the socialists have had plenty of time to prove their plans |
pnwmom |
Jan-18-11 04:24 PM |
#16 |
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Yeah, they fought Congress for decades to get SS and Medicare |
leftstreet |
Jan-18-11 04:25 PM |
#18 |
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Fine. Were they capitalists then? n/t |
pnwmom |
Jan-18-11 04:27 PM |
#20 |
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Actually, the Capitalists used FDR to push back against the Left |
leftstreet |
Jan-18-11 04:28 PM |
#22 |
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The "socialists" isn't that a far right meme? |
grahamhgreen |
Jan-18-11 05:13 PM |
#31 |
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Yes n/t |
leftstreet |
Jan-18-11 05:30 PM |
#46 |
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I like socialists. But I was responding to the previous post |
pnwmom |
Jan-18-11 09:40 PM |
#115 |
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FDR Democrats, perhaps... |
grahamhgreen |
Jan-19-11 01:50 PM |
#143 |
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Weren't most of them socialists? |
pnwmom |
Jan-19-11 02:28 PM |
#147 |
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What socialists would those be? |
Hello_Kitty |
Jan-18-11 06:06 PM |
#57 |
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The previous post referred to capitalists. I suppose I could have |
pnwmom |
Jan-18-11 09:43 PM |
#117 |
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You should have gone full bore and accused them of being Communists! |
Hello_Kitty |
Jan-18-11 10:58 PM |
#123 |
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"socialists" |
girl gone mad |
Jan-18-11 06:42 PM |
#63 |
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Uh-Oh. |
bvar22 |
Jan-18-11 07:26 PM |
#83 |
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No. And the mandate doesn't require anyone to buy insurance. |
pnwmom |
Jan-18-11 04:26 PM |
#19 |
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If you can prove you're already giving Insurance Execs money.... |
leftstreet |
Jan-18-11 04:27 PM |
#21 |
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You're not supposed to call it a tax.. |
girl gone mad |
Jan-18-11 06:43 PM |
#64 |
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The plan will NOT collapse. The only |
grahamhgreen |
Jan-18-11 05:13 PM |
#29 |
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how the hell would the private insurers collapse? you really don't understand the issue i am afraid. |
dionysus |
Jan-18-11 05:16 PM |
#35 |
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So you are saying that without a mandate, the insurers will be just fine? Then why have it? |
grahamhgreen |
Jan-18-11 05:28 PM |
#44 |
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this has been spelled out many times. if you don't grasp the fact by now, you never will. sorry. |
dionysus |
Jan-18-11 05:29 PM |
#45 |
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Nor does the rest of the civilized world. That's why for-profit basic insurance is illegal |
grahamhgreen |
Jan-18-11 05:35 PM |
#50 |
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That's a very important distinction. Nowhere else has mandatory for-profit insurance |
Hello_Kitty |
Jan-18-11 05:46 PM |
#55 |
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i'm not advocating for private insurance over a govt run plan. no one here is. |
dionysus |
Jan-18-11 06:27 PM |
#59 |
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I understand what your saying, but this isn't about |
grahamhgreen |
Jan-18-11 07:09 PM |
#75 |
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i'm stil not seeing where ins co's go bankrupt. they were screwing ppl and reaping obscene profits |
dionysus |
Jan-18-11 08:21 PM |
#94 |
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If big insurance will not go bankrupt, |
grahamhgreen |
Jan-19-11 02:49 PM |
#150 |
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I do not believe health insurers will go into bankruptcy without the mandate. |
Selatius |
Jan-19-11 12:08 AM |
#125 |
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I agree. The mandate is unecessary, unpopular, and getting rid of it |
grahamhgreen |
Jan-19-11 02:38 PM |
#149 |
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OK |
DonCoquixote |
Jan-18-11 07:16 PM |
#78 |
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Just look at the polls - the majority of Americans do want SP or a PO, and |
grahamhgreen |
Jan-18-11 07:25 PM |
#82 |
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Lots of people get Medicare who didn't pay into it. |
Hello_Kitty |
Jan-18-11 05:50 PM |
#56 |
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NO, once you turn 65 and qualify for Medicare, |
shimmergal |
Jan-19-11 05:34 PM |
#168 |
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How many supported paying for the uninsured? |
kirby |
Jan-18-11 04:42 PM |
#23 |
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Which is why Medicare for All works. The Repubs want a compromise - what part of the bill should we |
grahamhgreen |
Jan-18-11 05:15 PM |
#33 |
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why would medicare for all work? why, because it would be MANDATED. |
dionysus |
Jan-18-11 05:19 PM |
#37 |
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It is not a mandate, it is a tax. Big difference. The mandate is like allowing a private company |
grahamhgreen |
Jan-18-11 05:23 PM |
#39 |
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taxes aren't optional. |
dionysus |
Jan-18-11 05:27 PM |
#43 |
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Medicare for all is a misnomer |
GinaMaria |
Jan-18-11 05:25 PM |
#41 |
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Yes it would be mandated - we all know we're going to have to pay for health care somehow |
dflprincess |
Jan-18-11 08:08 PM |
#92 |
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i'm not disagreeing with you about medicare for all. what i'm saying is we didn't have |
dionysus |
Jan-18-11 08:33 PM |
#100 |
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uncompensated care accounts for a tiny portion total health care expenses.. |
girl gone mad |
Jan-18-11 07:01 PM |
#72 |
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ROFL @ The Mandate Being Ruled Unconstitutional |
Motown_Johnny |
Jan-18-11 05:12 PM |
#28 |
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1 is all it takes. The Repubs hate the mandate, let's pony up with them and |
grahamhgreen |
Jan-18-11 05:17 PM |
#36 |
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The Repubs LOVE the mandate. They will fight repealing only that provision |
Motown_Johnny |
Jan-18-11 08:45 PM |
#107 |
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Here is where getting the Dems to repeal the mandate becomes a political coup! |
grahamhgreen |
Jan-19-11 03:11 PM |
#156 |
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mandated coverage is the only way to even out the risk pool. we've been over this a million times |
dionysus |
Jan-18-11 05:14 PM |
#32 |
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That is only true in a non-profit scenario, otherwise the corporation |
grahamhgreen |
Jan-18-11 05:22 PM |
#38 |
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It's a guaranteed costs plus contract. |
Hello_Kitty |
Jan-18-11 05:35 PM |
#49 |
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And it's been rebutted a million times. |
Hello_Kitty |
Jan-18-11 05:33 PM |
#47 |
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Precisely, but they will never address these issues. |
girl gone mad |
Jan-18-11 07:03 PM |
#73 |
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Uninsured people have been turned into Welfare Queens. |
Hello_Kitty |
Jan-18-11 07:39 PM |
#86 |
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Just because someone rebuts it doesn't mean their rebuttal is accurate. |
BzaDem |
Jan-18-11 09:39 PM |
#114 |
| -
If I might |
grahamhgreen |
Jan-19-11 02:54 PM |
#151 |
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But if you repeal the mandate |
Riftaxe |
Jan-18-11 05:24 PM |
#40 |
| -
So eager to buy into RW memes. |
Codeine |
Jan-18-11 05:40 PM |
#52 |
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I disagree. The mandate is to (some) Democrats what tort reform is to Republicans |
Hello_Kitty |
Jan-18-11 05:41 PM |
#54 |
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it's not a magic bullet, but it is, in fact, one aspect of a rather lousy bill that will decrease |
dionysus |
Jan-18-11 06:28 PM |
#60 |
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The mandate will not decrease costs, the profits will go into corporate profits, not to |
grahamhgreen |
Jan-18-11 06:34 PM |
#61 |
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you forgot the part ofthe bill that mandates a specific percentage of premiums is spent on treatment |
dionysus |
Jan-18-11 06:45 PM |
#65 |
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80% |
grahamhgreen |
Jan-18-11 07:16 PM |
#77 |
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I don't care if it's 99%. |
Hello_Kitty |
Jan-18-11 07:59 PM |
#90 |
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Actually it's 80-85% (depending on the group size) be spent on claims or |
dflprincess |
Jan-18-11 08:11 PM |
#93 |
| -
i personally would like single payer. but we couldn't get that even with the dem majorities |
dionysus |
Jan-18-11 08:23 PM |
#96 |
| -
Half the people think their taxes went up |
Doctor_J |
Jan-18-11 07:00 PM |
#71 |
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Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act |
Swede |
Jan-18-11 07:06 PM |
#74 |
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This bill has as much to do with "affordable care" |
dflprincess |
Jan-18-11 08:25 PM |
#98 |
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OK, let's see your count of votes in the house for no Mandate...... |
rgbecker |
Jan-18-11 07:10 PM |
#76 |
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What we're talking about here is saving the rest of the bill by giving away the mandate, |
grahamhgreen |
Jan-18-11 07:23 PM |
#80 |
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If by being "saved," you mean making insurance cost thousands PER MONTH for everyone |
BzaDem |
Jan-18-11 09:41 PM |
#116 |
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I don't understand why I have to pay for something I don't want- |
Brilliantrocket |
Jan-18-11 09:45 PM |
#118 |
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Because you are going to need healthcare at some point in your life, whether you want it or not. n/t |
BzaDem |
Jan-18-11 09:46 PM |
#119 |
| -
You could say the same thing about food, water, shelter.. |
girl gone mad |
Jan-18-11 10:09 PM |
#122 |
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The price of food/water/shelter does not go up when you don't pay for it. |
BzaDem |
Jan-18-11 11:53 PM |
#124 |
| -
No, there is NO COUNTRY in the world that has a mandate to buy for-profit insurance |
grahamhgreen |
Jan-19-11 03:01 PM |
#152 |
| -
You're argument in support of the mandate is fairly twisted. |
girl gone mad |
Jan-19-11 03:51 PM |
#164 |
| -
Do you want to live in a country where emergency rooms let you bleed to death |
Warren DeMontague |
Jan-19-11 02:36 AM |
#129 |
| -
Do you drive a car? |
Warren DeMontague |
Jan-19-11 02:33 AM |
#127 |
| -
Auto insurance analogy is flawed on many levels. |
Hello_Kitty |
Jan-19-11 12:44 PM |
#137 |
| -
And when people who have no insurance turn up at emergency rooms, what happens? |
Warren DeMontague |
Jan-19-11 01:12 PM |
#140 |
| -
Last time my uninsured self went to the ER I paid for it. |
Hello_Kitty |
Jan-19-11 01:55 PM |
#144 |
| -
I'm sort of hardworking, more responsible than I used to be, and I am white. |
Warren DeMontague |
Jan-19-11 03:10 PM |
#155 |
| -
A single payer system is NOT |
shimmergal |
Jan-19-11 06:06 PM |
#169 |
| -
A single payer system- which makes the most sense, IMHO- basically makes everyone one big ins. pool. |
Warren DeMontague |
Jan-19-11 06:47 PM |
#171 |
| -
I'm sure there may be people who have that approach but I think you're overestimating their numbers |
Hello_Kitty |
Jan-19-11 06:18 PM |
#170 |
| -
And the choices remain: Do nothing, enact a single payer system, or have incremental change. |
Warren DeMontague |
Jan-19-11 06:49 PM |
#172 |
| -
The emergency room ALWAYS sends the patient a bill. |
grahamhgreen |
Jan-19-11 03:12 PM |
#158 |
| -
And the patient always pays it? |
Warren DeMontague |
Jan-19-11 03:33 PM |
#163 |
| -
No. |
grahamhgreen |
Jan-19-11 03:08 PM |
#154 |
| -
That's probably a good thing, if you also refuse to have health insurance. |
Warren DeMontague |
Jan-19-11 03:12 PM |
#157 |
| -
I have Kaiser, from my employer. |
grahamhgreen |
Jan-19-11 03:18 PM |
#159 |
| -
I agree 100% on Single Payer, sir. |
Warren DeMontague |
Jan-19-11 03:32 PM |
#162 |
| -
There is no mechanism in the bill that would |
grahamhgreen |
Jan-19-11 03:08 PM |
#153 |
| -
Oh, God, not this fight about the Mandate again. |
Warren DeMontague |
Jan-19-11 02:32 AM |
#126 |
| -
Yes you can. You eliminate the mandate by |
grahamhgreen |
Jan-19-11 03:23 PM |
#160 |
| -
You say you work for Kaiser. Isn't Kaiser non-profit? |
Warren DeMontague |
Jan-19-11 06:51 PM |
#173 |
| -
Eliminating the mandate is a good way to appeal to moderate voters. |
JVS |
Jan-19-11 02:35 AM |
#128 |
| -
And an EXCELLENT way to kill all possible progress/reform for yet another generation. |
Maru Kitteh |
Jan-19-11 09:57 AM |
#133 |
| -
How and why would it kill any reform? All it would do is allow us to get a claw back from |
grahamhgreen |
Jan-19-11 01:37 PM |
#141 |
| -
Don't feed the hungry |
Turbineguy |
Jan-19-11 02:41 AM |
#130 |
| -
POLLS SCHMOLLS! |
divine_truine |
Jan-19-11 10:06 AM |
#134 |
| -
"optional universal" health care is an oxymoron. nt |
lumberjack_jeff |
Jan-19-11 12:47 PM |
#138 |
| -
The bill does not provide universal health care. |
grahamhgreen |
Jan-19-11 03:25 PM |
#161 |
| -
+1000 |
GSLevel9 |
Jan-19-11 04:23 PM |
#165 |
| -
Exactly how would repeal put Medicare for All or a public option back on the table? |
Radical Activist |
Jan-19-11 04:42 PM |
#167 |
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