Malikshah
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Tue Oct-11-11 02:19 PM
Response to Reply #2 |
| 31. OK. At the risk of perpetuating your disdain. Epic Fail based on faulty evidence |
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Edited on Tue Oct-11-11 02:20 PM by Malikshah
As someone who is teaching upper division courses with a total enrollment of ~140 students and who is paid less than some of the executive assistants at my university...your argument holds no water whatsoever. I would go so far as to say your way of thinking (based on faulty evidence and specious logic) actually makes a strong case for a Liberal Arts Education. Spare us the anecdotes about prima donna profs who make 250K plus/annum. Do a modicum of research and you will find that 99% (funny, huh) of Liberal Arts professors (from various ranks from adjunct to full) make far far far less than that. Members of the academy are expected to do three things-- teach, research, and service. The percentage expected for each varies based upon the college/university with which one is associated. At state-run schools, the research output is especially onerous as one is dealing with little or no money and/or time, and yet one's salary/career is based upon research output in many cases.
Add to that the exponential rise of the administrative load on professors just as the administration of the universities rise (salary included for the myriad VPs, provosts, etc) Assessment, Retention, Outcome are the watchwords of the day....nothing about what the University is all about.
Suffice it to say, you appear to have not read the article closely and/or know little if anything about the University system as it truly functions.
Stop being the enemy.
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| -The End of the Liberal Arts at Public Universities |
marmar |
Oct-11-11 01:35 PM |
#0 |
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Heaven forbid someone should learn something just for the sake of knowledge. |
CurtEastPoint |
Oct-11-11 01:36 PM |
#1 |
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Working class kids CAN'T AFFORD to "learn something just for the sake of knowledge" |
Romulox |
Oct-11-11 01:39 PM |
#2 |
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There's a problem with saying universities aren't trade schools? They're not. |
EdMaven |
Oct-11-11 01:41 PM |
#4 |
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It's not even a true statement. The University I attended had half a dozen "trade schools" |
Romulox |
Oct-11-11 01:46 PM |
#7 |
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And students in all those "trade schools" took liberal arts classes |
pnwmom |
Oct-11-11 02:06 PM |
#18 |
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Many of those "trade schools" ARE liberal arts disciplines. |
Romulox |
Oct-11-11 02:12 PM |
#26 |
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Law school is not a liberal arts discipline. n/t |
pnwmom |
Oct-11-11 03:16 PM |
#63 |
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OK. It's not terribly material to any relevant point, at this point. |
Romulox |
Oct-11-11 03:51 PM |
#75 |
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None of those are trades. They're professions. |
EdMaven |
Oct-11-11 02:29 PM |
#42 |
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That's a semantics argument. The prof. and I both mean "vocations" by "trade" |
Romulox |
Oct-11-11 02:39 PM |
#45 |
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Yes, semantic argument, because a "Trade School" is a school that trains people for the trades & a |
EdMaven |
Oct-11-11 02:48 PM |
#55 |
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Nonsense. "Trade" has a broader meaning than the one you insist on. |
Romulox |
Oct-11-11 03:13 PM |
#60 |
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"trade" has many meanings. But not in the context of Trade Schools. |
EdMaven |
Oct-11-11 03:29 PM |
#69 |
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This is perhaps the silliest argument I've heard here. Just ridiculous. nt |
Romulox |
Oct-11-11 03:48 PM |
#72 |
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That's what people say when they're wrong. :) Check the dictionary. |
EdMaven |
Oct-11-11 03:50 PM |
#74 |
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"Trade: a : the business or work in which one engages regularly : occupation" |
Romulox |
Oct-11-11 03:52 PM |
#76 |
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Trade School: a secondary school teaching the skilled trades. |
EdMaven |
Oct-11-11 04:03 PM |
#81 |
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That's because everyone is disagreeing with your premise that $250 K |
pnwmom |
Oct-11-11 03:17 PM |
#64 |
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LOL. It's like debate/telephone. Now I'm arguing that it is a "common" salary? |
Romulox |
Oct-11-11 03:49 PM |
#73 |
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250k, really? in what universe? |
JCMach1 |
Oct-11-11 01:59 PM |
#14 |
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I know; what a joke. |
pnwmom |
Oct-11-11 02:07 PM |
#19 |
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Ahem (linky!) |
Romulox |
Oct-11-11 02:09 PM |
#21 |
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Ahem! Your link doesn't support your point. |
pnwmom |
Oct-11-11 02:18 PM |
#30 |
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There are several professors in that list that make in excess of that amount |
Romulox |
Oct-11-11 02:23 PM |
#37 |
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The only professors making that much are in the med school, |
pnwmom |
Oct-11-11 03:15 PM |
#62 |
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Your own evidence shows you to be deft at hyperbole |
alcibiades_mystery |
Oct-11-11 02:32 PM |
#43 |
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Nonsense. You're dissecting a point I didn't make. |
Romulox |
Oct-11-11 02:36 PM |
#44 |
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No, you invented a persona that doesn't exist in reality |
alcibiades_mystery |
Oct-11-11 02:41 PM |
#48 |
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Again nonsense. I won't defend arguments that you have constructed. nt |
Romulox |
Oct-11-11 02:46 PM |
#52 |
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Yes, promoting. You said that working class students |
pnwmom |
Oct-11-11 03:23 PM |
#67 |
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Studying for a specific job (i.e. to be an engineer) is NOT what is meant by "education for the sake |
Romulox |
Oct-11-11 03:47 PM |
#71 |
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Good analysis. Thanks! n/t |
pnwmom |
Oct-11-11 03:19 PM |
#65 |
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Large land-grant in my home state. The "good one". nt |
Romulox |
Oct-11-11 02:08 PM |
#20 |
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This recent hiring year in the Chronicle, the State of Florida was hiring profs |
JCMach1 |
Oct-11-11 03:06 PM |
#57 |
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My mom got a degree in English and she's been on welfare her whole life |
XemaSab |
Oct-11-11 02:04 PM |
#16 |
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Things aren't the same today as they were in your mother's day. |
Romulox |
Oct-11-11 02:10 PM |
#24 |
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It's tough everywhere, even in technical fields. |
pnwmom |
Oct-11-11 02:22 PM |
#35 |
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It's true, but there is still a need for liberal arts students |
XemaSab |
Oct-11-11 04:29 PM |
#82 |
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Yes they can. Engineering students can and do take liberal arts |
pnwmom |
Oct-11-11 02:05 PM |
#17 |
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That's a silly response. So engineers can afford a Liberal Arts education (just 1 elective, tho!) |
Romulox |
Oct-11-11 02:10 PM |
#25 |
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The required courses usually include many courses |
pnwmom |
Oct-11-11 02:20 PM |
#32 |
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OK. But filling out a distribution on the way to an Engineering degree isn't |
Romulox |
Oct-11-11 02:26 PM |
#39 |
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Yes, it is. The point of fulfilling the distribution requirement |
pnwmom |
Oct-11-11 03:13 PM |
#59 |
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But engineering is one of the dreaded "T" words. So no. It's about getting a job as an engineer.nt |
Romulox |
Oct-11-11 03:14 PM |
#61 |
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The required humanities courses are about getting a broad education |
pnwmom |
Oct-11-11 03:38 PM |
# |
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The engineering students are there to earn engineering degrees. |
Romulox |
Oct-11-11 03:55 PM |
#77 |
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ROFL |
alcibiades_mystery |
Oct-11-11 02:09 PM |
#22 |
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OK. At the risk of perpetuating your disdain. Epic Fail based on faulty evidence |
Malikshah |
Oct-11-11 02:19 PM |
#31 |
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My point wasn't really about salaries. It was about the insensitivity of demanding the poor take on |
Romulox |
Oct-11-11 02:28 PM |
#41 |
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If you re-read your post-- you start off with the issue of salary-- |
Malikshah |
Oct-11-11 02:40 PM |
#47 |
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Stop taking a salary for teaching and you can tell people about the fallacy of focusing on money |
Romulox |
Oct-11-11 02:45 PM |
#51 |
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And I'm living it long after I finished a terminal degree to be able to do research and |
Malikshah |
Oct-11-11 04:44 PM |
#84 |
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Despite being an academic myself for 39 years, and having been married to |
tblue37 |
Oct-11-11 08:31 PM |
#92 |
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I don;t see how LA/BA degrees engender more "self-thinking" than tech/BS degrees. |
OneTenthofOnePercent |
Oct-11-11 01:40 PM |
#3 |
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I agree, but I think the distinction w/ li arts is the subject matter -- language, |
EdMaven |
Oct-11-11 01:44 PM |
#6 |
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But they give access to thoughts the oppressors don't want us to hold |
HereSince1628 |
Oct-11-11 01:58 PM |
#13 |
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Liberal Arts is a curricula based on learning a little bit about a lot of things. |
Old and In the Way |
Oct-11-11 01:43 PM |
#5 |
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You got that wrong |
Confusious |
Oct-11-11 02:41 PM |
#50 |
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Fuck him and all the rest of the anti-education wads. |
Wait Wut |
Oct-11-11 01:48 PM |
#8 |
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I think they just want future generations to be as stupid and narrow-minded as they are... |
truebrit71 |
Oct-11-11 01:51 PM |
#9 |
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I don't think "we'll" be invited to their cocktail parties. |
Wait Wut |
Oct-11-11 02:23 PM |
#36 |
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Are you saying that folks with engineering degrees are not educated? |
AngryAmish |
Oct-11-11 01:55 PM |
#11 |
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"Are you saying that folks with engineering degrees are not educated?" |
marmar |
Oct-11-11 01:57 PM |
#12 |
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It's a reflection of generations of frat boy engineering students ... |
MedicalAdmin |
Oct-11-11 02:03 PM |
#15 |
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I think the arrogance is just as great in people who think |
pnwmom |
Oct-11-11 02:09 PM |
#23 |
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I agree. |
Wait Wut |
Oct-11-11 02:20 PM |
#33 |
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I'm with you about farms. |
pnwmom |
Oct-11-11 02:25 PM |
#38 |
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WTF? |
Wait Wut |
Oct-11-11 02:13 PM |
#28 |
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Charging to use the PUBLIC library??????? |
BrendaBrick |
Oct-11-11 02:21 PM |
#34 |
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They had a "reason"... |
Wait Wut |
Oct-11-11 02:28 PM |
#40 |
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Unbelievable! |
BrendaBrick |
Oct-11-11 02:40 PM |
#46 |
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Damn! I got a degree in Anthropology. Was the first person |
morningglory |
Oct-11-11 01:52 PM |
#10 |
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That's ridiculous. |
ceile |
Oct-11-11 02:12 PM |
#27 |
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Interesting. I have a degree in English, with another year of |
MineralMan |
Oct-11-11 02:15 PM |
#29 |
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Times have changed |
Confusious |
Oct-11-11 02:47 PM |
#53 |
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What job? I've worked for myself since 1974. |
MineralMan |
Oct-11-11 03:12 PM |
#58 |
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Bootstrap maker, no doubt. nt |
Romulox |
Oct-11-11 03:57 PM |
#78 |
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Nope. I never did any leather work. I had a friend who did, though. |
MineralMan |
Oct-11-11 06:39 PM |
#90 |
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Crap. dupe |
Confusious |
Oct-11-11 02:47 PM |
#54 |
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Teabaggers rejoyce! |
Dawson Leery |
Oct-11-11 02:41 PM |
#49 |
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What scares me about getting rid of the liberal arts is that we already |
jwirr |
Oct-11-11 03:01 PM |
#56 |
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Our local university has a 45 hour Liberal Arts Core |
exboyfil |
Oct-11-11 03:38 PM |
#70 |
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Well speaking to a lady who has a learning disability in math I am |
jwirr |
Oct-11-11 04:01 PM |
#80 |
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I put out that comment to generate this feedback |
exboyfil |
Oct-11-11 04:53 PM |
#86 |
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Two words: ASS HOLE |
justiceischeap |
Oct-11-11 03:19 PM |
#66 |
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I guess East Asian Studies is useless then, too. |
geardaddy |
Oct-11-11 03:26 PM |
#68 |
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Yes. Take out large loans for humanities degrees! What could go wrong? |
Romulox |
Oct-11-11 03:58 PM |
#79 |
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No offense |
Harmony Blue |
Oct-11-11 04:45 PM |
#85 |
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We are currently hiring Mechanical and Agricultural Engineering |
exboyfil |
Oct-11-11 04:56 PM |
#88 |
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Why shouldn't somebody pursue the field, the profession that they love? |
MadHound |
Oct-11-11 06:50 PM |
#91 |
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At the University of South Florida |
Harmony Blue |
Oct-11-11 04:39 PM |
#83 |
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You're focusing on the WRONG PROBLEM |
Lydia Leftcoast |
Oct-11-11 04:55 PM |
#87 |
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I went to college to get a job |
belcffub |
Oct-11-11 05:00 PM |
#89 |
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You can find a job with a liberal arts degree |
Harmony Blue |
Oct-11-11 08:36 PM |
#93 |
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K&R'd |
snot |
Oct-12-11 10:33 AM |
#94 |
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Science/Engineering/Business/Law teach people how to earn a living. |
bvar22 |
Oct-12-11 12:26 PM |
#95 |