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Reply #62: I'd say we need to shift to a multi-party parliamentary system. [View All]

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wickerwoman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-10-11 09:23 PM
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62. I'd say we need to shift to a multi-party parliamentary system.
When we send advisors to emerging democracies, we don't advise them to follow our system. Most of the Eastern European countries went for something much closer to the British system where there are a large number of parties which then have to form coalitions to get the majority.

It's the "Coke or Pepsi" party system in the US that is undermining democracy by forcing the center to be much, much too conservative in approaching environmental issus and financial regulation. The US desperately needs a viable Green Party and a viable Labor Party (and, God help us, a Tea Party and a Libertarian Party and a Nationalist Party).

Nobody takes Peak Oil or Climate Change seriously because people who would otherwise vote for the Green Party are never going to vote for Republicans. So Democrats take their votes for granted and *the* pressing issues of our time take a complete backseat to things like prayer in school, abortion and gun control where the centist votes are won.

I think step one is publically financed elections. We have to get corporate money out of politics and we have to create an environment where new political parties can be viable.
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  -It's a given that some form of Socialism is a better system MineralMan  Oct-10-11 07:26 PM   #0 
  - We could start with the guillotine for the Let Them Eat Cake crowd. nt  valerief   Oct-10-11 07:27 PM   #1 
  - hehe  leftstreet   Oct-10-11 07:28 PM   #3 
  - Who's at the top of your list for execution, Valerie?  MineralMan   Oct-10-11 07:28 PM   #4 
  - The four greatest mass murders in history  Nederland   Oct-10-11 07:40 PM   #14 
  - +100  MineralMan   Oct-10-11 07:46 PM   #19 
  - You'll find out that self-identification does not amount to a hill of beans.  Zanzoobar   Oct-10-11 07:50 PM   #25 
  - Then please enlighten us...  Nederland   Oct-10-11 08:14 PM   #45 
     - Socialism is where the working class holds power. They held power in none of those instances.  white_wolf   Oct-10-11 08:17 PM   #46 
     - Is there anywhere the working class holds the power?  Zanzoobar   Oct-10-11 08:19 PM   #48 
     - Currently no.  white_wolf   Oct-10-11 08:26 PM   #50 
        - Let us make an assumption...  Zanzoobar   Oct-10-11 08:31 PM   #51 
        - It really depends on which branch of socialism we are talking about.  white_wolf   Oct-10-11 08:36 PM   #53 
           - Take a look at the 17th amendment  Zanzoobar   Oct-10-11 08:44 PM   #55 
        - Isn't that telling?  Nederland   Oct-10-11 09:04 PM   #57 
           - You do realize that democracy itself has failed several times throughout human history, correct?  white_wolf   Oct-10-11 09:12 PM   #59 
              - Yes I do realize that  Nederland   Oct-10-11 10:18 PM   #69 
     - There is no form of state socialism where the working class holds power.  joshcryer   Oct-10-11 10:09 PM   #66 
     - Surely, you can define socialism?  Zanzoobar   Oct-10-11 08:18 PM   #47 
        - No problem  Nederland   Oct-10-11 09:01 PM   #56 
           - State owned  Zanzoobar   Oct-10-11 09:06 PM   #58 
  - So what do we do if and when the ruling class uses violence against us?  white_wolf   Oct-10-11 07:52 PM   #26 
  - Non-violence worked pretty well for Gandhi and MLK  Nederland   Oct-10-11 07:55 PM   #30 
     - It did, didn't it? nt.  MineralMan   Oct-10-11 07:57 PM   #33 
     - Non-violence only works when the alternative is worse.  white_wolf   Oct-10-11 07:59 PM   #35 
        - And how is that any different than today?  Nederland   Oct-10-11 08:08 PM   #42 
  - That's debatable. Neither of them can even touch the mass murder  Fool Count   Oct-10-11 07:54 PM   #28 
     - And endless war  valerief   Oct-10-11 07:55 PM   #31 
        - And the destruction of our environment that could very well wipe us all out.  white_wolf   Oct-10-11 07:57 PM   #34 
           - War fallout does that. Fracking does that. Nuclear waste does that. Oil industry does that.  valerief   Oct-10-11 08:00 PM   #37 
  - You forgot your sarcasm thingie  FrodosPet   Oct-10-11 08:00 PM   # 
  - This time robiespierre goes first  Riftaxe   Oct-10-11 09:42 PM   #63 
  - And now, I turn the thread over to everyone else.  MineralMan   Oct-10-11 07:27 PM   #2 
  - My suggestion: start networking for a 'parallel' vote for...  Amonester   Oct-10-11 09:20 PM   #61 
  - 80% Capitalism 20% Socialism  banned from Kos   Oct-10-11 07:31 PM   #5 
  - How do we get there? That's not a step, it's a goal.  MineralMan   Oct-10-11 07:32 PM   #7 
  - How is that going to work?  Zanzoobar   Oct-10-11 07:49 PM   #23 
  - If you're afraid 'millions will die,' better to stick with Capitalism n/t  leftstreet   Oct-10-11 07:31 PM   #6 
  - I'm not a big fan of millions of people dying, to tell you the truth.  MineralMan   Oct-10-11 07:33 PM   #8 
     - How will these 'millions' die if Capitalism is defeated?  leftstreet   Oct-10-11 07:37 PM   #11 
        - How does it get defeated? You're still skipping all the steps that  MineralMan   Oct-10-11 07:39 PM   #13 
           - If we had Single Payer NonProfit healthcare, would people die?  leftstreet   Oct-10-11 07:42 PM   #15 
              - I've supported Single Payer Healthcare for years. So how do we  MineralMan   Oct-10-11 07:44 PM   #18 
                 - You don't know that you have to remove the profit-takers? Yet you've read Marx and Engels?  leftstreet   Oct-10-11 07:46 PM   #20 
                    - There are many ways to remove the "profit-takers."  MineralMan   Oct-10-11 07:47 PM   #22 
                       - So you're back to being for it? Er... n/t  leftstreet   Oct-10-11 07:55 PM   #29 
                          - Again, I'll answer your question when you answer mine.  MineralMan   Oct-10-11 07:59 PM   #36 
                             - Your vigorous construction of Strawmen makes me think Obama has released his Jobs Program  leftstreet   Oct-10-11 08:11 PM   #44 
  - It's a long journey IMO, but I think OWS is a good start if the momentum can  RKP5637   Oct-10-11 07:35 PM   #9 
  - Yes, it's interesting, and I admire the spirit of those who are there.  MineralMan   Oct-10-11 07:38 PM   #12 
     - Definitely, a plan will need to be in the works soon with an articulated doable goal set, because  RKP5637   Oct-10-11 07:54 PM   #27 
        - They've already started to co-opt it. Yup.  MineralMan   Oct-10-11 07:57 PM   #32 
           - No, I didn't see that poll, I had no idea it was that low, none at all. Maybe this  RKP5637   Oct-10-11 08:05 PM   #40 
           - Can you blame them for not voting?  white_wolf   Oct-10-11 08:08 PM   #43 
  - Start Nationalizing things of extreme importance to the continuity and prosperity of our country.  FarLeftFist   Oct-10-11 07:36 PM   #10 
  - Right now, that's not something that can be done within the current  MineralMan   Oct-10-11 07:42 PM   #16 
  - My gut feeling is capitalism will eventually implode on this current course. The  RKP5637   Oct-10-11 07:43 PM   #17 
  - You cannot nationalize anything without just compensation. Constitution would need to be modified.  joshcryer   Oct-10-11 10:10 PM   #67 
     - We could get creative.  white_wolf   Oct-10-11 10:14 PM   #68 
        - Sure, but that's trillions of dollars in liquidity that the government couldn't pay back.  joshcryer   Oct-10-11 10:53 PM   #70 
  - taxation on wealth over x amt is a start  RainDog   Oct-10-11 07:46 PM   #21 
  - That seems pretty distant right now. We can't even get people  MineralMan   Oct-10-11 07:49 PM   #24 
     - The majority of people in this nation are not opposed to taxes on the wealthy  RainDog   Oct-10-11 08:23 PM   #49 
  - I'd settle for equal rights for labor vs capital  yurbud   Oct-10-11 08:00 PM   #38 
  - Support unions, for one...  War Horse   Oct-10-11 08:00 PM   #39 
  - One word: Co-ops.  Odin2005   Oct-10-11 08:07 PM   #41 
  - Existing model  Jim Warren   Oct-10-11 08:36 PM   #52 
  - we use the Swedish/Norway blueprint as best we can  StarsInHerHair   Oct-10-11 08:40 PM   #54 
  - The nordic countries have a capitalist economic system, too.  Honeycombe8   Oct-10-11 09:14 PM   #60 
  - I'd say we need to shift to a multi-party parliamentary system.  wickerwoman   Oct-10-11 09:23 PM   #62 
  - it's not one-size-fits-all  procon   Oct-10-11 10:07 PM   #64 
  - But how would you address the problem of finite resources?  wickerwoman   Oct-10-11 11:36 PM   #71 
  - The last thing you want is the government taking over the means of production. LAST THING.  joshcryer   Oct-10-11 10:07 PM   #65 
  - I don't think it is a given. Socialism is based on unit labor, just like capitalism  JCMach1   Oct-10-11 11:48 PM   #72 
 

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