RaleighNCDUer
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Thu Sep-15-11 11:58 AM
Response to Reply #55 |
| 128. To clarify - are you saying the process of reconciliation was wrong for this vote, |
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or the the vote would not have gotten the 50 votes to pass under reconciliation?
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| -Why is the lie that we needed 60 votes to pass a public option so widely accepted here? |
no limit |
Sep-14-11 11:27 AM |
#0 |
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K and R |
Broderick |
Sep-14-11 11:28 AM |
#1 |
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Deleted message |
Name removed |
Sep-14-11 11:32 AM |
#2 |
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Gee gosh golly |
durablend |
Sep-14-11 11:35 AM |
#3 |
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I thought it had something to do with a threatened filibuster... |
KansDem |
Sep-14-11 11:37 AM |
#4 |
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Reconciliation avoids the filibuster completely. It only needs 50 votes plus Joe Biden |
no limit |
Sep-14-11 11:38 AM |
#6 |
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"Reconciliation" |
KansDem |
Sep-14-11 11:51 AM |
#14 |
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Because the public option COULD NOT BE PASSED BY RECONCILIATION. |
TheWraith |
Sep-14-11 11:37 AM |
#5 |
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Really? Then how did COBRA and SCHIP get passed using reconciliation? |
no limit |
Sep-14-11 11:38 AM |
#7 |
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See post 89. |
BzaDem |
Sep-15-11 12:05 AM |
#91 |
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I did. Show me one source that claims they had to overwrite the Byrd rule. |
no limit |
Sep-15-11 08:21 AM |
#103 |
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You don't need to override the Byrd rule if not a single Senator makes a point of order. |
BzaDem |
Sep-15-11 10:23 AM |
#114 |
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Let's say for the sake of the argument the senate parliamentarian rules you can't do it |
no limit |
Sep-15-11 10:51 AM |
#117 |
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That would be equivalent to nuking the filibuster. While there are good arguments for and against |
BzaDem |
Sep-15-11 12:39 PM |
#130 |
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So it was possible to get around the filibuster. |
no limit |
Sep-15-11 12:48 PM |
#131 |
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As I said, it is hillarious that someone who is blatantly wrong is actually telling OTHERS that they |
BzaDem |
Sep-15-11 12:56 PM |
#132 |
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The are counting on short term memory to pass off the "Reconciliation would have worked", lie.n/t |
Sheepshank |
Sep-15-11 12:59 PM |
#133 |
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All of the alternate realities rely on short term memories. It's so easy to say things like |
BzaDem |
Sep-15-11 01:03 PM |
#134 |
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You are the one deciding to live in an alternate reality |
no limit |
Sep-15-11 01:49 PM |
#138 |
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Was Harry Reid an idot for saying he would push for the public option in reconciliation? |
no limit |
Sep-15-11 01:13 PM |
#135 |
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FAIL! |
joeybee12 |
Sep-14-11 11:41 AM |
#9 |
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WRONG |
Maven |
Sep-14-11 12:48 PM |
#29 |
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60 votes needed to break the filibuster and then only 51 votes needed to pass the bill. |
Lord Helmet |
Sep-14-11 12:59 PM |
#35 |
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This is completely not true, you don't understand the reconciliation process |
no limit |
Sep-14-11 01:25 PM |
#40 |
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Barney Frank says its true. I consider him a better source than DU pundits. |
Lord Helmet |
Sep-14-11 01:28 PM |
#42 |
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Show me where Barney Frank said you need 60 votes to use reconciliation |
no limit |
Sep-14-11 01:32 PM |
#46 |
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He apparently doesn't think this could have been passed by reconciliation. |
Lord Helmet |
Sep-14-11 01:35 PM |
#50 |
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The comments you posted have him saying "the president didnt have the votes" |
no limit |
Sep-14-11 01:37 PM |
#52 |
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Frank doesn't think this could have been passed by reconciliation. You do. |
Lord Helmet |
Sep-14-11 01:40 PM |
#55 |
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It's like I'm talking to a robot. Where does Frank say you can't use reconciliation |
no limit |
Sep-14-11 01:41 PM |
#57 |
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Deleted message |
Name removed |
Sep-14-11 01:44 PM |
#58 |
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Really? It's inferred? According to who? You? Let's pretend for a sec what you inferred is correct |
no limit |
Sep-14-11 01:47 PM |
#59 |
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If you dispute his statements on this, ask him. He's the expert on process, not you. |
Lord Helmet |
Sep-14-11 01:48 PM |
#60 |
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Yeah, let me get Bernie on the phone real quick. I'll let you know what he says |
no limit |
Sep-14-11 01:51 PM |
#62 |
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Sanders: Senate has the votes to pass public option via reconciliation |
no limit |
Sep-14-11 01:53 PM |
#63 |
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from what I remember, they didn't have enough dem |
rainy |
Sep-15-11 11:18 AM |
#124 |
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You didn't need a committee. The house could have added it and it would be on the senate floor |
no limit |
Sep-15-11 01:19 PM |
#137 |
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To clarify - are you saying the process of reconciliation was wrong for this vote, |
RaleighNCDUer |
Sep-15-11 11:58 AM |
#128 |
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SCHIP and COBRA were both bipartisan programs. ANYTHING can pass by reconciliation if you have 60 |
BzaDem |
Sep-15-11 12:00 AM |
#89 |
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Show me the vote where they bypassed the Byrd rule. |
no limit |
Sep-15-11 08:19 AM |
#101 |
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The original SCHIP passed under UNANIMOUS CONSENT, and the original COBRA passed 93-6. There were no |
BzaDem |
Sep-15-11 10:22 AM |
#113 |
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reconciliation requires cooperation from both sides |
pasto76 |
Sep-15-11 10:57 AM |
#120 |
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No, it does not. |
no limit |
Sep-15-11 01:18 PM |
#136 |
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Deleted message |
Name removed |
Sep-14-11 01:33 PM |
#49 |
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If it relates to the budget it could have been passed that way. |
sabrina 1 |
Sep-14-11 01:57 PM |
#65 |
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"Where there is will, there is a way." More bogus magical thinking. |
BzaDem |
Sep-15-11 12:07 AM |
#92 |
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Really? I'm glad FDR and LBJ were magical |
sabrina 1 |
Sep-15-11 02:17 PM |
#139 |
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Wait, you mean we couldn't just get SINGLE-PAYER by reconciliation? |
MH1 |
Sep-15-11 11:35 AM |
#127 |
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Because people want to cling to something |
Harmony Blue |
Sep-14-11 11:39 AM |
#8 |
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Senatorial privilege was more important |
SixthSense |
Sep-14-11 11:41 AM |
#10 |
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I'm not sure I understand your point? They didn't preserve the 60 vote threshold |
no limit |
Sep-14-11 11:42 AM |
#11 |
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They would have needed 60 votes to beat the |
sufrommich |
Sep-14-11 11:48 AM |
#12 |
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Deleted message |
Name removed |
Sep-14-11 11:49 AM |
#13 |
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Don't give up |
Harmony Blue |
Sep-14-11 11:53 AM |
#15 |
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I've been informed here in DU that it's all the Liberals' fault |
LondonReign2 |
Sep-14-11 11:57 AM |
#16 |
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There was no will so there was no way. |
tblue |
Sep-14-11 12:00 PM |
#17 |
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Willful Ignorance? Propaganda? A need to Justify the lack of a public option at all costs? |
Dragonfli |
Sep-14-11 12:13 PM |
#18 |
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Did you do any research about this? From a simple google search: |
elocs |
Sep-14-11 12:36 PM |
#19 |
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The only thing I get from your link is that Democrats are weak. n/t |
Dawgs |
Sep-14-11 12:39 PM |
#21 |
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Basically |
Harmony Blue |
Sep-14-11 12:41 PM |
#23 |
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Also noticed that referenced article was written months before the it passed through reconciliation. |
Dawgs |
Sep-14-11 12:44 PM |
#27 |
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That certainly is a much easier tact than addressing any of the points. |
elocs |
Sep-14-11 12:45 PM |
#28 |
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I'm not understanding what this article has to do with my OP, maybe you can clarify? |
no limit |
Sep-14-11 12:50 PM |
#30 |
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The bottom line is that from the beginning they could not pass the original bill |
elocs |
Sep-14-11 12:56 PM |
#34 |
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You say that is the bottom line but you aren't explaining why |
no limit |
Sep-14-11 01:24 PM |
#38 |
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I heard that Lieberman had more power than the President or anyone else in Congress. |
Dawgs |
Sep-14-11 12:37 PM |
#20 |
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first of all you have to want the public option and stand up against republicans nt |
msongs |
Sep-14-11 12:40 PM |
#22 |
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Why did they agree to adjourn for the month of August? |
robdogbucky |
Sep-14-11 12:41 PM |
#24 |
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I have always wondered this myself. Dems were sent to slaughter with no direction |
boston bean |
Sep-15-11 11:26 AM |
#125 |
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Because if it were acknowledged that our system has that kind of power |
Starry Messenger |
Sep-14-11 12:42 PM |
#25 |
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The last reason they gave for this was because it was a budget issue or something like that. |
Shagbark Hickory |
Sep-14-11 12:42 PM |
#26 |
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Yeah, with COBRA and SCHIP being passed using the same process this excuse is BS |
no limit |
Sep-14-11 12:51 PM |
#31 |
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If you don't get the differences between COBRA/SCHIP and this, that is YOUR problem (not thiers). nt |
BzaDem |
Sep-15-11 12:11 AM |
#93 |
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The final paragraph of the link tells a true story about what happened with reconciliation, |
elocs |
Sep-14-11 12:52 PM |
#32 |
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60 votes needed on procedural vote to break the filibuster, then only 51 votes needed to pass it. |
Lord Helmet |
Sep-14-11 12:56 PM |
#33 |
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Deleted message |
Name removed |
Sep-14-11 01:24 PM |
#39 |
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I'm pretty sure Barney Frank knows what he's talking about on this. |
Lord Helmet |
Sep-14-11 01:27 PM |
#41 |
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If Barney Frank had said you need 60 votes to pass a bill using reconciliation... |
no limit |
Sep-14-11 01:30 PM |
#44 |
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Believe what you want. I believe Barney Frank on this. |
Lord Helmet |
Sep-14-11 01:38 PM |
# |
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Deleted message |
Name removed |
Sep-14-11 01:38 PM |
#54 |
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Again believe what you want. I believe Barney Frank on this. He knows what he's talking about. |
Lord Helmet |
Sep-14-11 01:41 PM |
#56 |
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Sanders: Senate has the votes to pass public option via reconciliation |
no limit |
Sep-14-11 02:02 PM |
#68 |
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Smoke and mirrors.. |
Kermitt Gribble |
Sep-14-11 01:11 PM |
#36 |
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Barney Frank: Not president's fault on public option (see video) |
Lord Helmet |
Sep-14-11 01:17 PM |
#37 |
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Self-delete: wrong reply. Im moving this reply to you above. |
no limit |
Sep-14-11 01:29 PM |
#43 |
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Apparently he doesn't think this could have been passed as reconciliation. |
Lord Helmet |
Sep-14-11 01:32 PM |
#47 |
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Where did he say this? |
no limit |
Sep-14-11 01:33 PM |
#48 |
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Sanders: Senate has the votes to pass public option via reconciliation |
no limit |
Sep-14-11 01:54 PM |
#64 |
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Who appointed Max Baucus, again?? |
Kermitt Gribble |
Sep-14-11 09:24 PM |
#74 |
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Just as other appointments have been revealing. |
Enthusiast |
Sep-15-11 10:02 AM |
#107 |
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Deleted sub-thread |
Name removed |
Sep-14-11 01:31 PM |
#45 |
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The Republicans could have been but were not forced to engage in a real filibuster. |
Better Believe It |
Sep-14-11 01:36 PM |
#51 |
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Right, but this has nothing to do with the filibuster. They had no way to filibuster reconciliation |
no limit |
Sep-14-11 01:38 PM |
#53 |
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That's true. |
Better Believe It |
Sep-14-11 01:57 PM |
#66 |
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people hollering "filibuster" better watch what happens in 2013 |
0rganism |
Sep-14-11 01:50 PM |
#61 |
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+1 |
hulka38 |
Sep-14-11 11:57 PM |
#86 |
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Democrats prefer to lose |
Claudia Jones |
Sep-14-11 02:01 PM |
#67 |
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+1000 |
U4ikLefty |
Sep-14-11 11:49 PM |
#84 |
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Ding!! |
disillusioned73 |
Sep-15-11 07:42 AM |
#100 |
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Insurance Co's wouldn't like tampering with their legislation nt |
One_Life_To_Give |
Sep-14-11 02:14 PM |
#69 |
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Four reasons: |
truedelphi |
Sep-14-11 03:49 PM |
#70 |
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Thanks for the truth. |
Enthusiast |
Sep-15-11 10:06 AM |
#108 |
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You are totally wrong. |
JoePhilly |
Sep-14-11 05:12 PM |
#71 |
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This is basically exactly as i remember it also |
Papa |
Sep-14-11 07:02 PM |
#72 |
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^ This |
Poll_Blind |
Sep-14-11 11:58 PM |
#87 |
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Corporations do not want a healthy citizenry... |
midnight |
Sep-14-11 07:38 PM |
#73 |
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Because of all the Dem apologists |
slay |
Sep-14-11 10:13 PM |
#75 |
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Budget Reform Act of 2011 sets aside cloture rule |
soryang |
Sep-14-11 10:25 PM |
#76 |
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Believe it or not, a bipartisan bill that passes with a vast majority can set aside the rules. |
BzaDem |
Sep-15-11 12:12 AM |
#94 |
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Actually, we don't know the content of the bill |
soryang |
Sep-15-11 04:11 PM |
#140 |
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Tell that to the Senate. McConnell always threatens a filibuster |
gateley |
Sep-14-11 10:37 PM |
#77 |
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Senate procedure is arguably more nuanced than constitutional law |
Hippo_Tron |
Sep-14-11 11:17 PM |
#78 |
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It was accepted by elected Dems |
In Jest |
Sep-14-11 11:25 PM |
#79 |
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Do not recall repeating that lie even once. |
lonestarnot |
Sep-14-11 11:26 PM |
#80 |
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Santa talked everyone into it. |
gulliver |
Sep-14-11 11:34 PM |
#81 |
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Howard Dean was also highly critical of Democratic leadership |
hulka38 |
Sep-14-11 11:45 PM |
#82 |
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Virtual filibuster is not a lie. |
joshcryer |
Sep-14-11 11:46 PM |
#83 |
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No, it's a threat by bullies. |
ClassWarrior |
Sep-14-11 11:54 PM |
#85 |
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Because it makes it easier to turn one's back on people like me. |
ScreamingMeemie |
Sep-15-11 12:00 AM |
#88 |
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It's pretty amazing for someone to use the word "lie" while simultaneously making false statements. |
BzaDem |
Sep-15-11 12:03 AM |
#90 |
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It's been well-established that the White House cut a deal early on. |
BlueCheese |
Sep-15-11 02:42 AM |
#95 |
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also: PBS Frontline- Obamas Deal |
court jester |
Sep-15-11 03:10 AM |
#98 |
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More truth. |
Enthusiast |
Sep-15-11 10:11 AM |
#109 |
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+1000 |
Hawkowl |
Sep-15-11 11:31 AM |
#126 |
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K&R nt |
Raine |
Sep-15-11 02:47 AM |
#96 |
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Unrec. Because the OP is a lie filled with much misinformation. |
Tx4obama |
Sep-15-11 03:02 AM |
#97 |
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You are the one spreading falsehoods. You either don't know how reconciliation works |
no limit |
Sep-15-11 08:21 AM |
#102 |
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Thanks for the reminder... |
disillusioned73 |
Sep-15-11 07:35 AM |
#99 |
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PLUS ONE! |
Enthusiast |
Sep-15-11 10:16 AM |
#111 |
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Because the president must be supported and defended at all costs. |
LWolf |
Sep-15-11 08:33 AM |
#104 |
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don't we have any fresh horses to beat? |
mopinko |
Sep-15-11 09:26 AM |
#105 |
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This is by far the clearest example of the president telling us something |
no limit |
Sep-15-11 10:52 AM |
#119 |
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Kicked and recommended! nt |
Enthusiast |
Sep-15-11 09:55 AM |
#106 |
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Because fighting a filibuster is scary and requires you to stand up for what you say you believe in. |
Brickbat |
Sep-15-11 10:14 AM |
#110 |
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Sigh. Where does the reconciled bill go after it passes? |
sofa king |
Sep-15-11 10:17 AM |
#112 |
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Jesus fucking christ. How many times does this have to be repeated? |
no limit |
Sep-15-11 10:43 AM |
#116 |
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(Hint: stop using Wikipedia as your source) |
sofa king |
Sep-16-11 05:58 AM |
#141 |
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Absolutely correct;. But the meme now is "Nothing to see here- |
COLGATE4 |
Sep-15-11 10:31 AM |
#115 |
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K&R at the same time someone -1'ed XD |
pam4water |
Sep-15-11 10:51 AM |
#118 |
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The Senate represents the interests of capital, not labor |
SOS |
Sep-15-11 10:59 AM |
#121 |
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More importantly, why do so few here recognize that it was off the table from the beginning? |
EOTE |
Sep-15-11 11:01 AM |
#122 |
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They LIE for the same reason most people lie... to cover the shame. |
bvar22 |
Sep-15-11 11:13 AM |
#123 |
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wishful thinking |
librechik |
Sep-15-11 12:33 PM |
#129 |
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