BzaDem
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Mon Aug-29-11 10:20 PM
Response to Reply #111 |
| 115. My only point is that the people who decide in the end not to vote for Obama (for the most part) are |
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Edited on Mon Aug-29-11 10:28 PM by BzaDem
completely fine with privatization and then ending of the entitlements (whether it is because they want to "rip the baindaid off" or for some other rreason). They know that this will be the consequence of a Republican presidency. For the people that actually vote against Obama (not the people who merely threaten to but then vote for him in the end), they know exactly what they are doing. A lack of knowledge might have been excusable before 2000, when most were not knowledgeable about what the consequences of their actions were. (Most who found out regretted their action ever since and will not be repeating it.) But the ones left over know exactly what the consequences will be this time.
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| -Obama offers 2012 election supporters change they can believe in — next term |
Better Believe It |
Aug-29-11 07:18 PM |
#0 |
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"Make no mistake: I won't pull the football away this time, |
MannyGoldstein |
Aug-29-11 07:21 PM |
#1 |
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... |
William769 |
Aug-29-11 07:27 PM |
#5 |
| -
He was such a nice guy! |
marlakay |
Aug-29-11 07:35 PM |
#8 |
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Charles Schultz? |
MannyGoldstein |
Aug-29-11 09:44 PM |
#83 |
| -
Thanks for that wonderful post! nt |
SusanaMontana41 |
Aug-30-11 09:26 AM |
#159 |
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Wow, that was great!!! |
Beacool |
Aug-30-11 02:54 PM |
#162 |
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I thought it would make Manny's day. |
William769 |
Aug-30-11 08:00 PM |
#169 |
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I'm sure it did. |
Beacool |
Aug-30-11 09:39 PM |
#172 |
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lol |
Skip Intro |
Aug-29-11 08:30 PM |
#47 |
| -
Lol |
walerosco |
Aug-29-11 09:38 PM |
#80 |
| -
yup |
shanti |
Aug-29-11 09:56 PM |
#93 |
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This works for me: |
abelenkpe |
Aug-29-11 07:22 PM |
#2 |
| -
duzy worthy..nt |
xiamiam |
Aug-30-11 03:12 PM |
#164 |
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I'm partial to: |
LondonReign2 |
Aug-30-11 03:33 PM |
#166 |
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K & R !!! |
WillyT |
Aug-29-11 07:24 PM |
#3 |
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I think the bumper sticker should be "Obama 2012 - we cannot risk the alternative" |
DCBob |
Aug-29-11 07:26 PM |
#4 |
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Ah yes, the tired, old 'terra terra terra' BS |
ixion |
Aug-29-11 07:50 PM |
#10 |
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nothing to do with "terra".. its about not letting the psycho-Republicans take control. |
DCBob |
Aug-29-11 07:54 PM |
#11 |
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But we're told Obama can't do anything because the GOP has control |
leftstreet |
Aug-29-11 08:03 PM |
#17 |
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Yes you are confused. They are not in control but they sure have gummed up the works. |
DCBob |
Aug-29-11 08:06 PM |
#19 |
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So the Democrats are currently in control? |
leftstreet |
Aug-29-11 08:11 PM |
#20 |
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Do you read? We have a divided government in a political gridlock. |
DCBob |
Aug-29-11 08:16 PM |
#23 |
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You had the majority from 2006 through 2010 |
ixion |
Aug-29-11 08:19 PM |
#28 |
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who's you?? |
DCBob |
Aug-29-11 08:21 PM |
#32 |
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I'm an independent |
ixion |
Aug-29-11 08:22 PM |
#33 |
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then why are you here? |
DCBob |
Aug-29-11 08:23 PM |
#36 |
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To keep folks like you honest |
ixion |
Aug-29-11 08:24 PM |
#38 |
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honesty is in serious short supply on this site and in politics in general. |
DCBob |
Aug-29-11 08:27 PM |
#41 |
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and that is something that really needs to 'change' |
ixion |
Aug-29-11 08:29 PM |
#46 |
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Voting is not necessarily an "endorsement," and it is not a "pact." That is nonsensical. When you |
BzaDem |
Aug-29-11 09:16 PM |
#67 |
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That you treat it so lightly is very telling |
ixion |
Aug-29-11 09:18 PM |
#68 |
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It has nothing to do with the way "I" treat it. It has to do with something called reality. |
BzaDem |
Aug-29-11 09:22 PM |
#70 |
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That is a tired, stale argument |
ixion |
Aug-29-11 09:24 PM |
#72 |
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You aren't claiming Republicans won't end Medicare, or that they won't appoint justices that will |
BzaDem |
Aug-29-11 09:30 PM |
#74 |
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No, I'm saying |
ixion |
Aug-29-11 09:33 PM |
#75 |
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How are these "threats" at all? Doesn't a threat require the promise of voluntary action as a |
BzaDem |
Aug-29-11 09:42 PM |
#81 |
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Saying "Vote Dem because the other guy is worse" is a threat |
ixion |
Aug-29-11 09:48 PM |
#86 |
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Once again, if someone were to tell you to avoid jumping off a ledge, would you consider that a |
BzaDem |
Aug-29-11 09:53 PM |
#90 |
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What 'entirely true' statement is it that you are making |
ixion |
Aug-29-11 09:57 PM |
#95 |
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The statement about the particular consequences of a Republican victory that are different than |
BzaDem |
Aug-29-11 10:02 PM |
#98 |
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That isn't even close to an 'entirely true' statement |
ixion |
Aug-29-11 10:05 PM |
#100 |
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What will you do if you are wrong? Of course someone who isn't capable of rebutting a claim will say |
BzaDem |
Aug-29-11 10:07 PM |
#103 |
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I'm not wrong, though, so no worries. Endless war is bad. |
ixion |
Aug-29-11 10:08 PM |
#105 |
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I wasn't asking about endless war. What if you are wrong that Republicans won't end entitlements? nt |
BzaDem |
Aug-29-11 10:09 PM |
#106 |
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As I've said numerous times in this thread: |
ixion |
Aug-29-11 10:11 PM |
#109 |
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But much of what you want (prosecutions of Bush et al) you aren't ever going to get. You have the |
BzaDem |
Aug-29-11 10:16 PM |
#112 |
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Then, as I said, entitlements become irrelevant in a state of endless war. |
ixion |
Aug-29-11 10:20 PM |
#116 |
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Your choice already ceases to exist, because it never existed. The problems that you say need to be |
BzaDem |
Aug-29-11 10:23 PM |
#118 |
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If it is not solved, we cease to be. |
ixion |
Aug-29-11 10:24 PM |
#120 |
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But even if I assume that for the sake of argument, what do you GAIN by enabling a candidate that |
BzaDem |
Aug-29-11 10:26 PM |
#122 |
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I gain nothing in either case. |
ixion |
Aug-29-11 10:30 PM |
#126 |
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If you were the deciding vote, and your vote enabled the election of a Republican over the election |
BzaDem |
Aug-29-11 10:32 PM |
#127 |
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Once again, this is sheer rhetorical, theoretical, political spin |
ixion |
Aug-29-11 10:34 PM |
#131 |
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How could a question be spin? n/t |
BzaDem |
Aug-29-11 10:35 PM |
#133 |
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quite easily. It is, in fact, the hallmark of spin. |
ixion |
Aug-29-11 10:36 PM |
#136 |
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a majority |
DonCoquixote |
Aug-29-11 11:12 PM |
#152 |
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Gridlock? The Republicans seem to get almost everything they want! |
Better Believe It |
Aug-29-11 08:19 PM |
#29 |
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you have no idea what this country would look like if they "get everything they want". |
DCBob |
Aug-29-11 08:22 PM |
#35 |
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We could end up with mandatory health insurance pymts. No jobs, more war |
leftstreet |
Aug-29-11 08:27 PM |
#42 |
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well its hard to talk sense with a closed mind. |
DCBob |
Aug-29-11 08:30 PM |
#48 |
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You mean mass unemployment, foreclosures, wage/benefit cuts, attacks on so-called "entitlements"? |
Better Believe It |
Aug-29-11 08:29 PM |
#45 |
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You're scaring me. Where can I get one of those bumper stickers? |
leftstreet |
Aug-29-11 08:32 PM |
#53 |
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yawn |
Little Star |
Aug-29-11 08:38 PM |
#59 |
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Maybe if the GOP wins the Dems can 'gum up the works' |
leftstreet |
Aug-29-11 08:20 PM |
#30 |
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The Democratic leadership seems to be doing that when they win! |
Better Believe It |
Aug-29-11 08:22 PM |
#34 |
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not if they take the WH and both chambers.. nothing can stop them. |
DCBob |
Aug-29-11 08:25 PM |
#40 |
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The Dems had a Golden Opportunity to be heroes, to be populists |
ixion |
Aug-29-11 08:27 PM |
#43 |
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Nothing new. Democratic leaders failed to stop George W. Bush |
Better Believe It |
Aug-29-11 08:37 PM |
#57 |
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So, why can't the Democrats 'gum up the works'? In the minority |
sabrina 1 |
Aug-29-11 10:05 PM |
#101 |
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Thank you, Sabrina. |
Raksha |
Aug-30-11 03:14 AM |
#156 |
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Exactly. BOTH sides use fear as a motivator |
ixion |
Aug-29-11 08:17 PM |
#26 |
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but what if its completely true? |
DCBob |
Aug-29-11 08:18 PM |
#27 |
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true? oh please... |
ixion |
Aug-29-11 08:21 PM |
#31 |
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so what do you think this country would look like with Teabagers running the show? |
DCBob |
Aug-29-11 08:24 PM |
#37 |
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Pretty much what it looks like now, which is crap |
ixion |
Aug-29-11 08:25 PM |
#39 |
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clearly you dont know much about what the Republicans want to do to this country. |
DCBob |
Aug-29-11 08:29 PM |
#44 |
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Clearly, I do. All I have to do is look around, because they're doing it still |
ixion |
Aug-29-11 08:30 PM |
#50 |
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"I'm just supposed to let that pass?" You are supposed to recognize that it isn't really up to you. |
BzaDem |
Aug-29-11 09:21 PM |
#69 |
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gee, just a second ago you called me an enabler... so what is it? |
ixion |
Aug-29-11 09:34 PM |
#77 |
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Sure, on some issues (such as not prosecuting previous presidents) we will be going the same way |
BzaDem |
Aug-29-11 09:46 PM |
#85 |
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I am concerned about the big things, like hostile occupations and endless 'wars' |
ixion |
Aug-29-11 09:51 PM |
#88 |
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But that isn't the question. The question isn't between a candidate who will prosecute his |
BzaDem |
Aug-29-11 09:56 PM |
#94 |
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I beg to differ, sir, that is PRECISELY the question |
ixion |
Aug-29-11 09:59 PM |
#96 |
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If that is the question, then where is the viable candidate that wants to end entitlements but |
BzaDem |
Aug-29-11 10:04 PM |
#99 |
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entitlements are little wins. I'm talking about serious issues that threaten our existence |
ixion |
Aug-29-11 10:07 PM |
#104 |
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So the entire senior population keeping their Medicare is a "little win?" |
BzaDem |
Aug-29-11 10:10 PM |
#107 |
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Yes, in the big picture it is, and here's why: |
ixion |
Aug-29-11 10:13 PM |
#110 |
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But you would be voting to enable a candidate that would want to expand such wars even more than you |
BzaDem |
Aug-29-11 10:18 PM |
#114 |
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Obama expanded into Pakistan and Yemen, and escalated Afghanistan |
ixion |
Aug-29-11 10:21 PM |
#117 |
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But do you think the Republican is going to pull out of those places? n/t |
BzaDem |
Aug-29-11 10:24 PM |
#119 |
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No, I don't. |
ixion |
Aug-29-11 10:25 PM |
#121 |
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Then why take an action that will increase the likelihood that one becomes President? n/t |
BzaDem |
Aug-29-11 10:29 PM |
#124 |
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one will become pResident no matter what action I take |
ixion |
Aug-29-11 10:32 PM |
#128 |
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So your entire argument comes down to not wanting to spend 5 minutes voting? |
BzaDem |
Aug-29-11 10:33 PM |
#130 |
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No, my argument is that I have to live with myself |
ixion |
Aug-29-11 10:35 PM |
#134 |
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Like Nader's voters, you will have to live with the knowledge that every action the next Republican |
BzaDem |
Aug-29-11 10:36 PM |
#137 |
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lol... whatever with your threats |
ixion |
Aug-29-11 10:37 PM |
#139 |
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Pointing out the obvious is not a threat, any more than any warning of danger is a threat. n/t |
BzaDem |
Aug-29-11 10:38 PM |
#140 |
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So, you're stating how progressives think, but upthread you said you are an independent. |
blue neen |
Aug-29-11 10:44 PM |
#145 |
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Yeah, that's the beauty of being an independent |
ixion |
Aug-29-11 10:53 PM |
#147 |
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Really? I was kind of feeling that you were thinking for me. |
blue neen |
Aug-29-11 10:58 PM |
#150 |
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Nah, you're on your own... |
ixion |
Aug-29-11 11:02 PM |
#151 |
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They want to cut so-called "entitlements". Isn't that right? |
Better Believe It |
Aug-29-11 08:31 PM |
#52 |
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Actually that is false. They don't want to "cut" entitlements. They want to END entitlements. |
BzaDem |
Aug-29-11 09:23 PM |
#71 |
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Wouldn't ending them save us more money than cutting them? |
leftstreet |
Aug-29-11 09:37 PM |
#78 |
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What does that question have to do with my post? |
BzaDem |
Aug-29-11 09:45 PM |
#84 |
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If you're going to run on RW policy you should go all the way |
leftstreet |
Aug-29-11 09:55 PM |
#92 |
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Why is that? Isn't it better that one of the eventual people who might be inaugurated does not want |
BzaDem |
Aug-29-11 09:59 PM |
#97 |
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No. The GOP plan could end up looking better. Privatize rather than lose it. |
leftstreet |
Aug-29-11 10:06 PM |
#102 |
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But Obama is not in favor of privatization or ending it, and you are saying he should be. |
BzaDem |
Aug-29-11 10:11 PM |
#108 |
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It's the intention of both parties to privatize it. At least the GOP says it |
leftstreet |
Aug-29-11 10:14 PM |
#111 |
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My only point is that the people who decide in the end not to vote for Obama (for the most part) are |
BzaDem |
Aug-29-11 10:20 PM |
#115 |
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Privatization vs nothing at all. Which would you choose? |
leftstreet |
Aug-29-11 10:27 PM |
#123 |
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Are you actually claiming that the Democrats aren't offering an alternative to privatization? n/t |
BzaDem |
Aug-29-11 10:29 PM |
#125 |
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Yes n/t |
leftstreet |
Aug-29-11 10:33 PM |
#129 |
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So just to be clear: you think Obama's stated proposal to not privatize Medicare is actually |
BzaDem |
Aug-29-11 10:35 PM |
#135 |
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What did the Catfood Commission recommend? Neighborhood Potluck & Cataract Surgery Days? |
leftstreet |
Aug-29-11 10:39 PM |
#142 |
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They recommended keeping Medicare as a fully public program. They didn't even offer vouchers as an |
BzaDem |
Aug-29-11 10:41 PM |
#143 |
| -
Not immediately. But you know that |
leftstreet |
Aug-29-11 10:47 PM |
#146 |
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So your entire theory relies on denial? The proposed plans are not what you wish they would be to |
BzaDem |
Aug-29-11 10:56 PM |
#149 |
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Do you understand that Obama's 2010 HCR is privatized healthcare? |
leftstreet |
Aug-30-11 03:28 PM |
#165 |
| -
yawn, again. |
Little Star |
Aug-29-11 08:40 PM |
#60 |
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There will become a time where a lot of people yawning now will not be yawning in the yawning in the |
BzaDem |
Aug-29-11 09:24 PM |
#73 |
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LOL.... |
cliffordu |
Aug-29-11 07:59 PM |
#13 |
| -
Tell it to Christopher Hitchens |
ixion |
Aug-29-11 08:17 PM |
#24 |
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So fucking what? |
cliffordu |
Aug-30-11 12:16 AM |
#154 |
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It's a valid premise |
ixion |
Aug-30-11 06:57 AM |
#157 |
| -
Or "Vote Obama 2012 - The Republican is worse" That's catchy. |
Better Believe It |
Aug-29-11 08:15 PM |
#21 |
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that is the underlying message and for many that is good enough. |
DCBob |
Aug-29-11 08:17 PM |
#25 |
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Since you so genuinely seem to want to be helpful to the President's re-election campaign, |
blue neen |
Aug-29-11 10:55 PM |
#148 |
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So basically "Obama 2012, not as repulsive as the other guy/gal" |
Raine |
Aug-29-11 08:54 PM |
#63 |
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That's pretty fucking sad. |
muffin1 |
Aug-29-11 10:34 PM |
#132 |
| -
Edwin Edwards' "Vote for the crook, it's important" had the same message and it certainly worked |
Hippo_Tron |
Aug-30-11 10:17 PM |
#175 |
| -
“2012,” Well at least he isn't making any catchy promises. |
Autumn |
Aug-29-11 07:27 PM |
#6 |
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gives me fond memories when the "present" crap gets dredged up years later. |
dionysus |
Aug-29-11 07:30 PM |
#7 |
| -
Deleted message |
Name removed |
Aug-29-11 08:30 PM |
#49 |
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Isn't '2012' the title of a disaster movie? |
leftstreet |
Aug-29-11 07:58 PM |
#12 |
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Why yes I believe it was. |
Autumn |
Aug-29-11 09:42 PM |
#82 |
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A movie about preparing 6 billion people for the end of the world |
leftstreet |
Aug-29-11 09:51 PM |
#87 |
| -
Change you can believe in... no, really.... trust me... |
ixion |
Aug-29-11 07:49 PM |
#9 |
| -
I'm not sure I would buy a used car from |
Autumn |
Aug-30-11 10:53 AM |
#160 |
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Corrupt. |
Bluebear |
Aug-29-11 08:01 PM |
#14 |
| -
I will gladly pay you Tuesday for a hamburger today. |
Safetykitten |
Aug-29-11 08:02 PM |
#15 |
| -
And just as wimpy |
Bluebear |
Aug-29-11 08:03 PM |
#16 |
| -
lol!!!!! |
Little Star |
Aug-29-11 08:41 PM |
#61 |
| -
I can't wait to see the slogan |
quinnox |
Aug-29-11 08:06 PM |
#18 |
| -
This sounds vaguely familiar . . . |
Le Taz Hot |
Aug-29-11 08:16 PM |
#22 |
| -
Fuck. That. Noise. |
BulletproofLandshark |
Aug-29-11 08:31 PM |
#51 |
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Yep. We're the "Professional Left" |
ixion |
Aug-29-11 08:56 PM |
#64 |
| -
"Meh you can believe in!" |
Starry Messenger |
Aug-29-11 08:33 PM |
#54 |
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"There'll be pie in the sky when you die." |
Tierra_y_Libertad |
Aug-29-11 08:35 PM |
#55 |
| -
And that's no lie! |
Better Believe It |
Aug-29-11 08:38 PM |
#58 |
| -
Change goes buh-bye |
ixion |
Aug-29-11 08:57 PM |
#65 |
| -
And Hope runs dry |
Bluebear |
Aug-29-11 09:15 PM |
#66 |
| -
That is like a slap in the face, no? n/t |
Little Star |
Aug-29-11 08:36 PM |
#56 |
| -
Here's a 2012 for you... |
ladyVet |
Aug-29-11 08:54 PM |
#62 |
| -
You really want him to lose, don't you? |
treestar |
Aug-29-11 09:33 PM |
#76 |
| -
Whoooosh .... nt |
TBF |
Aug-29-11 09:52 PM |
#89 |
| -
a great example of the 'fear' motivator |
ixion |
Aug-29-11 09:53 PM |
#91 |
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He won't lose if he becomes the Democrat that he claimed to be |
Raine |
Aug-29-11 10:36 PM |
#138 |
| -
I see a republican right now. He's going to have to do something |
B Calm |
Aug-30-11 03:09 PM |
#163 |
| -
Ya think? |
Bobbie Jo |
Aug-30-11 09:22 AM |
#158 |
| -
OMG |
LWolf |
Aug-29-11 09:38 PM |
#79 |
| -
"His triumphant 2008 message of “hope and change” has undergone a radical transformation, |
Beacool |
Aug-29-11 10:17 PM |
#113 |
| -
Are you kidding? Only yesterday someone here... |
Bluebear |
Aug-30-11 02:54 AM |
#155 |
| -
Then that's more of a shame. |
Beacool |
Aug-30-11 02:46 PM |
#161 |
| -
With you. |
Bluebear |
Aug-30-11 04:28 PM |
#167 |
| -
tomorrow, next week, next month, next term - what's the difference |
Broderick |
Aug-29-11 10:39 PM |
#141 |
| -
Now more than ever. |
BlueCheese |
Aug-29-11 10:44 PM |
#144 |
| -
It's now or never. nt |
bemildred |
Aug-29-11 11:45 PM |
#153 |
| -
fool me once... |
amborin |
Aug-30-11 04:29 PM |
#168 |
| -
Deleted message |
Name removed |
Aug-30-11 08:22 PM |
#170 |
| -
Deleted message |
Name removed |
Aug-30-11 09:07 PM |
#171 |
| -
This is a progressive discussion board. I don't expect everyone to agree with me. |
Better Believe It |
Aug-30-11 09:51 PM |
#173 |
| -
Fool me once - Shame on you . . . |
lynne |
Aug-30-11 10:10 PM |
#174 |
| -
Everybody chill out. I got this. |
Zorra |
Aug-30-11 11:16 PM |
#176 |
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