ixion
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Mon Aug-29-11 09:59 PM
Response to Reply #94 |
| 96. I beg to differ, sir, that is PRECISELY the question |
|
and the reason so many progressives are disappointed, among many other smaller reasons.
|
| -Obama offers 2012 election supporters change they can believe in — next term |
Better Believe It |
Aug-29-11 07:18 PM |
#0 |
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"Make no mistake: I won't pull the football away this time, |
MannyGoldstein |
Aug-29-11 07:21 PM |
#1 |
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... |
William769 |
Aug-29-11 07:27 PM |
#5 |
| -
He was such a nice guy! |
marlakay |
Aug-29-11 07:35 PM |
#8 |
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Charles Schultz? |
MannyGoldstein |
Aug-29-11 09:44 PM |
#83 |
| -
Thanks for that wonderful post! nt |
SusanaMontana41 |
Aug-30-11 09:26 AM |
#159 |
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Wow, that was great!!! |
Beacool |
Aug-30-11 02:54 PM |
#162 |
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I thought it would make Manny's day. |
William769 |
Aug-30-11 08:00 PM |
#169 |
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I'm sure it did. |
Beacool |
Aug-30-11 09:39 PM |
#172 |
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lol |
Skip Intro |
Aug-29-11 08:30 PM |
#47 |
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Lol |
walerosco |
Aug-29-11 09:38 PM |
#80 |
| -
yup |
shanti |
Aug-29-11 09:56 PM |
#93 |
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This works for me: |
abelenkpe |
Aug-29-11 07:22 PM |
#2 |
| -
duzy worthy..nt |
xiamiam |
Aug-30-11 03:12 PM |
#164 |
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I'm partial to: |
LondonReign2 |
Aug-30-11 03:33 PM |
#166 |
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K & R !!! |
WillyT |
Aug-29-11 07:24 PM |
#3 |
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I think the bumper sticker should be "Obama 2012 - we cannot risk the alternative" |
DCBob |
Aug-29-11 07:26 PM |
#4 |
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Ah yes, the tired, old 'terra terra terra' BS |
ixion |
Aug-29-11 07:50 PM |
#10 |
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nothing to do with "terra".. its about not letting the psycho-Republicans take control. |
DCBob |
Aug-29-11 07:54 PM |
#11 |
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But we're told Obama can't do anything because the GOP has control |
leftstreet |
Aug-29-11 08:03 PM |
#17 |
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Yes you are confused. They are not in control but they sure have gummed up the works. |
DCBob |
Aug-29-11 08:06 PM |
#19 |
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So the Democrats are currently in control? |
leftstreet |
Aug-29-11 08:11 PM |
#20 |
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Do you read? We have a divided government in a political gridlock. |
DCBob |
Aug-29-11 08:16 PM |
#23 |
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You had the majority from 2006 through 2010 |
ixion |
Aug-29-11 08:19 PM |
#28 |
| -
who's you?? |
DCBob |
Aug-29-11 08:21 PM |
#32 |
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I'm an independent |
ixion |
Aug-29-11 08:22 PM |
#33 |
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then why are you here? |
DCBob |
Aug-29-11 08:23 PM |
#36 |
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To keep folks like you honest |
ixion |
Aug-29-11 08:24 PM |
#38 |
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honesty is in serious short supply on this site and in politics in general. |
DCBob |
Aug-29-11 08:27 PM |
#41 |
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and that is something that really needs to 'change' |
ixion |
Aug-29-11 08:29 PM |
#46 |
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Voting is not necessarily an "endorsement," and it is not a "pact." That is nonsensical. When you |
BzaDem |
Aug-29-11 09:16 PM |
#67 |
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That you treat it so lightly is very telling |
ixion |
Aug-29-11 09:18 PM |
#68 |
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It has nothing to do with the way "I" treat it. It has to do with something called reality. |
BzaDem |
Aug-29-11 09:22 PM |
#70 |
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That is a tired, stale argument |
ixion |
Aug-29-11 09:24 PM |
#72 |
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You aren't claiming Republicans won't end Medicare, or that they won't appoint justices that will |
BzaDem |
Aug-29-11 09:30 PM |
#74 |
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No, I'm saying |
ixion |
Aug-29-11 09:33 PM |
#75 |
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How are these "threats" at all? Doesn't a threat require the promise of voluntary action as a |
BzaDem |
Aug-29-11 09:42 PM |
#81 |
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Saying "Vote Dem because the other guy is worse" is a threat |
ixion |
Aug-29-11 09:48 PM |
#86 |
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Once again, if someone were to tell you to avoid jumping off a ledge, would you consider that a |
BzaDem |
Aug-29-11 09:53 PM |
#90 |
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What 'entirely true' statement is it that you are making |
ixion |
Aug-29-11 09:57 PM |
#95 |
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The statement about the particular consequences of a Republican victory that are different than |
BzaDem |
Aug-29-11 10:02 PM |
#98 |
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That isn't even close to an 'entirely true' statement |
ixion |
Aug-29-11 10:05 PM |
#100 |
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What will you do if you are wrong? Of course someone who isn't capable of rebutting a claim will say |
BzaDem |
Aug-29-11 10:07 PM |
#103 |
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I'm not wrong, though, so no worries. Endless war is bad. |
ixion |
Aug-29-11 10:08 PM |
#105 |
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I wasn't asking about endless war. What if you are wrong that Republicans won't end entitlements? nt |
BzaDem |
Aug-29-11 10:09 PM |
#106 |
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As I've said numerous times in this thread: |
ixion |
Aug-29-11 10:11 PM |
#109 |
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But much of what you want (prosecutions of Bush et al) you aren't ever going to get. You have the |
BzaDem |
Aug-29-11 10:16 PM |
#112 |
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Then, as I said, entitlements become irrelevant in a state of endless war. |
ixion |
Aug-29-11 10:20 PM |
#116 |
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Your choice already ceases to exist, because it never existed. The problems that you say need to be |
BzaDem |
Aug-29-11 10:23 PM |
#118 |
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If it is not solved, we cease to be. |
ixion |
Aug-29-11 10:24 PM |
#120 |
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But even if I assume that for the sake of argument, what do you GAIN by enabling a candidate that |
BzaDem |
Aug-29-11 10:26 PM |
#122 |
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I gain nothing in either case. |
ixion |
Aug-29-11 10:30 PM |
#126 |
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If you were the deciding vote, and your vote enabled the election of a Republican over the election |
BzaDem |
Aug-29-11 10:32 PM |
#127 |
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Once again, this is sheer rhetorical, theoretical, political spin |
ixion |
Aug-29-11 10:34 PM |
#131 |
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How could a question be spin? n/t |
BzaDem |
Aug-29-11 10:35 PM |
#133 |
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quite easily. It is, in fact, the hallmark of spin. |
ixion |
Aug-29-11 10:36 PM |
#136 |
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a majority |
DonCoquixote |
Aug-29-11 11:12 PM |
#152 |
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Gridlock? The Republicans seem to get almost everything they want! |
Better Believe It |
Aug-29-11 08:19 PM |
#29 |
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you have no idea what this country would look like if they "get everything they want". |
DCBob |
Aug-29-11 08:22 PM |
#35 |
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We could end up with mandatory health insurance pymts. No jobs, more war |
leftstreet |
Aug-29-11 08:27 PM |
#42 |
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well its hard to talk sense with a closed mind. |
DCBob |
Aug-29-11 08:30 PM |
#48 |
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You mean mass unemployment, foreclosures, wage/benefit cuts, attacks on so-called "entitlements"? |
Better Believe It |
Aug-29-11 08:29 PM |
#45 |
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You're scaring me. Where can I get one of those bumper stickers? |
leftstreet |
Aug-29-11 08:32 PM |
#53 |
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yawn |
Little Star |
Aug-29-11 08:38 PM |
#59 |
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Maybe if the GOP wins the Dems can 'gum up the works' |
leftstreet |
Aug-29-11 08:20 PM |
#30 |
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The Democratic leadership seems to be doing that when they win! |
Better Believe It |
Aug-29-11 08:22 PM |
#34 |
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not if they take the WH and both chambers.. nothing can stop them. |
DCBob |
Aug-29-11 08:25 PM |
#40 |
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The Dems had a Golden Opportunity to be heroes, to be populists |
ixion |
Aug-29-11 08:27 PM |
#43 |
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Nothing new. Democratic leaders failed to stop George W. Bush |
Better Believe It |
Aug-29-11 08:37 PM |
#57 |
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So, why can't the Democrats 'gum up the works'? In the minority |
sabrina 1 |
Aug-29-11 10:05 PM |
#101 |
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Thank you, Sabrina. |
Raksha |
Aug-30-11 03:14 AM |
#156 |
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Exactly. BOTH sides use fear as a motivator |
ixion |
Aug-29-11 08:17 PM |
#26 |
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but what if its completely true? |
DCBob |
Aug-29-11 08:18 PM |
#27 |
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true? oh please... |
ixion |
Aug-29-11 08:21 PM |
#31 |
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so what do you think this country would look like with Teabagers running the show? |
DCBob |
Aug-29-11 08:24 PM |
#37 |
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Pretty much what it looks like now, which is crap |
ixion |
Aug-29-11 08:25 PM |
#39 |
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clearly you dont know much about what the Republicans want to do to this country. |
DCBob |
Aug-29-11 08:29 PM |
#44 |
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Clearly, I do. All I have to do is look around, because they're doing it still |
ixion |
Aug-29-11 08:30 PM |
#50 |
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"I'm just supposed to let that pass?" You are supposed to recognize that it isn't really up to you. |
BzaDem |
Aug-29-11 09:21 PM |
#69 |
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gee, just a second ago you called me an enabler... so what is it? |
ixion |
Aug-29-11 09:34 PM |
#77 |
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Sure, on some issues (such as not prosecuting previous presidents) we will be going the same way |
BzaDem |
Aug-29-11 09:46 PM |
#85 |
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I am concerned about the big things, like hostile occupations and endless 'wars' |
ixion |
Aug-29-11 09:51 PM |
#88 |
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But that isn't the question. The question isn't between a candidate who will prosecute his |
BzaDem |
Aug-29-11 09:56 PM |
#94 |
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I beg to differ, sir, that is PRECISELY the question |
ixion |
Aug-29-11 09:59 PM |
#96 |
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If that is the question, then where is the viable candidate that wants to end entitlements but |
BzaDem |
Aug-29-11 10:04 PM |
#99 |
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entitlements are little wins. I'm talking about serious issues that threaten our existence |
ixion |
Aug-29-11 10:07 PM |
#104 |
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So the entire senior population keeping their Medicare is a "little win?" |
BzaDem |
Aug-29-11 10:10 PM |
#107 |
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Yes, in the big picture it is, and here's why: |
ixion |
Aug-29-11 10:13 PM |
#110 |
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But you would be voting to enable a candidate that would want to expand such wars even more than you |
BzaDem |
Aug-29-11 10:18 PM |
#114 |
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Obama expanded into Pakistan and Yemen, and escalated Afghanistan |
ixion |
Aug-29-11 10:21 PM |
#117 |
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But do you think the Republican is going to pull out of those places? n/t |
BzaDem |
Aug-29-11 10:24 PM |
#119 |
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No, I don't. |
ixion |
Aug-29-11 10:25 PM |
#121 |
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Then why take an action that will increase the likelihood that one becomes President? n/t |
BzaDem |
Aug-29-11 10:29 PM |
#124 |
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one will become pResident no matter what action I take |
ixion |
Aug-29-11 10:32 PM |
#128 |
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So your entire argument comes down to not wanting to spend 5 minutes voting? |
BzaDem |
Aug-29-11 10:33 PM |
#130 |
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No, my argument is that I have to live with myself |
ixion |
Aug-29-11 10:35 PM |
#134 |
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Like Nader's voters, you will have to live with the knowledge that every action the next Republican |
BzaDem |
Aug-29-11 10:36 PM |
#137 |
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lol... whatever with your threats |
ixion |
Aug-29-11 10:37 PM |
#139 |
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Pointing out the obvious is not a threat, any more than any warning of danger is a threat. n/t |
BzaDem |
Aug-29-11 10:38 PM |
#140 |
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So, you're stating how progressives think, but upthread you said you are an independent. |
blue neen |
Aug-29-11 10:44 PM |
#145 |
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Yeah, that's the beauty of being an independent |
ixion |
Aug-29-11 10:53 PM |
#147 |
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Really? I was kind of feeling that you were thinking for me. |
blue neen |
Aug-29-11 10:58 PM |
#150 |
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Nah, you're on your own... |
ixion |
Aug-29-11 11:02 PM |
#151 |
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They want to cut so-called "entitlements". Isn't that right? |
Better Believe It |
Aug-29-11 08:31 PM |
#52 |
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Actually that is false. They don't want to "cut" entitlements. They want to END entitlements. |
BzaDem |
Aug-29-11 09:23 PM |
#71 |
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Wouldn't ending them save us more money than cutting them? |
leftstreet |
Aug-29-11 09:37 PM |
#78 |
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What does that question have to do with my post? |
BzaDem |
Aug-29-11 09:45 PM |
#84 |
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If you're going to run on RW policy you should go all the way |
leftstreet |
Aug-29-11 09:55 PM |
#92 |
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Why is that? Isn't it better that one of the eventual people who might be inaugurated does not want |
BzaDem |
Aug-29-11 09:59 PM |
#97 |
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No. The GOP plan could end up looking better. Privatize rather than lose it. |
leftstreet |
Aug-29-11 10:06 PM |
#102 |
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But Obama is not in favor of privatization or ending it, and you are saying he should be. |
BzaDem |
Aug-29-11 10:11 PM |
#108 |
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It's the intention of both parties to privatize it. At least the GOP says it |
leftstreet |
Aug-29-11 10:14 PM |
#111 |
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My only point is that the people who decide in the end not to vote for Obama (for the most part) are |
BzaDem |
Aug-29-11 10:20 PM |
#115 |
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Privatization vs nothing at all. Which would you choose? |
leftstreet |
Aug-29-11 10:27 PM |
#123 |
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Are you actually claiming that the Democrats aren't offering an alternative to privatization? n/t |
BzaDem |
Aug-29-11 10:29 PM |
#125 |
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Yes n/t |
leftstreet |
Aug-29-11 10:33 PM |
#129 |
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So just to be clear: you think Obama's stated proposal to not privatize Medicare is actually |
BzaDem |
Aug-29-11 10:35 PM |
#135 |
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What did the Catfood Commission recommend? Neighborhood Potluck & Cataract Surgery Days? |
leftstreet |
Aug-29-11 10:39 PM |
#142 |
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They recommended keeping Medicare as a fully public program. They didn't even offer vouchers as an |
BzaDem |
Aug-29-11 10:41 PM |
#143 |
| -
Not immediately. But you know that |
leftstreet |
Aug-29-11 10:47 PM |
#146 |
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So your entire theory relies on denial? The proposed plans are not what you wish they would be to |
BzaDem |
Aug-29-11 10:56 PM |
#149 |
| -
Do you understand that Obama's 2010 HCR is privatized healthcare? |
leftstreet |
Aug-30-11 03:28 PM |
#165 |
| -
yawn, again. |
Little Star |
Aug-29-11 08:40 PM |
#60 |
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There will become a time where a lot of people yawning now will not be yawning in the yawning in the |
BzaDem |
Aug-29-11 09:24 PM |
#73 |
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LOL.... |
cliffordu |
Aug-29-11 07:59 PM |
#13 |
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Tell it to Christopher Hitchens |
ixion |
Aug-29-11 08:17 PM |
#24 |
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So fucking what? |
cliffordu |
Aug-30-11 12:16 AM |
#154 |
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It's a valid premise |
ixion |
Aug-30-11 06:57 AM |
#157 |
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Or "Vote Obama 2012 - The Republican is worse" That's catchy. |
Better Believe It |
Aug-29-11 08:15 PM |
#21 |
| -
that is the underlying message and for many that is good enough. |
DCBob |
Aug-29-11 08:17 PM |
#25 |
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Since you so genuinely seem to want to be helpful to the President's re-election campaign, |
blue neen |
Aug-29-11 10:55 PM |
#148 |
| -
So basically "Obama 2012, not as repulsive as the other guy/gal" |
Raine |
Aug-29-11 08:54 PM |
#63 |
| -
That's pretty fucking sad. |
muffin1 |
Aug-29-11 10:34 PM |
#132 |
| -
Edwin Edwards' "Vote for the crook, it's important" had the same message and it certainly worked |
Hippo_Tron |
Aug-30-11 10:17 PM |
#175 |
| -
“2012,” Well at least he isn't making any catchy promises. |
Autumn |
Aug-29-11 07:27 PM |
#6 |
| -
gives me fond memories when the "present" crap gets dredged up years later. |
dionysus |
Aug-29-11 07:30 PM |
#7 |
| -
Deleted message |
Name removed |
Aug-29-11 08:30 PM |
#49 |
| -
Isn't '2012' the title of a disaster movie? |
leftstreet |
Aug-29-11 07:58 PM |
#12 |
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Why yes I believe it was. |
Autumn |
Aug-29-11 09:42 PM |
#82 |
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A movie about preparing 6 billion people for the end of the world |
leftstreet |
Aug-29-11 09:51 PM |
#87 |
| -
Change you can believe in... no, really.... trust me... |
ixion |
Aug-29-11 07:49 PM |
#9 |
| -
I'm not sure I would buy a used car from |
Autumn |
Aug-30-11 10:53 AM |
#160 |
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Corrupt. |
Bluebear |
Aug-29-11 08:01 PM |
#14 |
| -
I will gladly pay you Tuesday for a hamburger today. |
Safetykitten |
Aug-29-11 08:02 PM |
#15 |
| -
And just as wimpy |
Bluebear |
Aug-29-11 08:03 PM |
#16 |
| -
lol!!!!! |
Little Star |
Aug-29-11 08:41 PM |
#61 |
| -
I can't wait to see the slogan |
quinnox |
Aug-29-11 08:06 PM |
#18 |
| -
This sounds vaguely familiar . . . |
Le Taz Hot |
Aug-29-11 08:16 PM |
#22 |
| -
Fuck. That. Noise. |
BulletproofLandshark |
Aug-29-11 08:31 PM |
#51 |
| -
Yep. We're the "Professional Left" |
ixion |
Aug-29-11 08:56 PM |
#64 |
| -
"Meh you can believe in!" |
Starry Messenger |
Aug-29-11 08:33 PM |
#54 |
| -
"There'll be pie in the sky when you die." |
Tierra_y_Libertad |
Aug-29-11 08:35 PM |
#55 |
| -
And that's no lie! |
Better Believe It |
Aug-29-11 08:38 PM |
#58 |
| -
Change goes buh-bye |
ixion |
Aug-29-11 08:57 PM |
#65 |
| -
And Hope runs dry |
Bluebear |
Aug-29-11 09:15 PM |
#66 |
| -
That is like a slap in the face, no? n/t |
Little Star |
Aug-29-11 08:36 PM |
#56 |
| -
Here's a 2012 for you... |
ladyVet |
Aug-29-11 08:54 PM |
#62 |
| -
You really want him to lose, don't you? |
treestar |
Aug-29-11 09:33 PM |
#76 |
| -
Whoooosh .... nt |
TBF |
Aug-29-11 09:52 PM |
#89 |
| -
a great example of the 'fear' motivator |
ixion |
Aug-29-11 09:53 PM |
#91 |
| -
He won't lose if he becomes the Democrat that he claimed to be |
Raine |
Aug-29-11 10:36 PM |
#138 |
| -
I see a republican right now. He's going to have to do something |
B Calm |
Aug-30-11 03:09 PM |
#163 |
| -
Ya think? |
Bobbie Jo |
Aug-30-11 09:22 AM |
#158 |
| -
OMG |
LWolf |
Aug-29-11 09:38 PM |
#79 |
| -
"His triumphant 2008 message of “hope and change” has undergone a radical transformation, |
Beacool |
Aug-29-11 10:17 PM |
#113 |
| -
Are you kidding? Only yesterday someone here... |
Bluebear |
Aug-30-11 02:54 AM |
#155 |
| -
Then that's more of a shame. |
Beacool |
Aug-30-11 02:46 PM |
#161 |
| -
With you. |
Bluebear |
Aug-30-11 04:28 PM |
#167 |
| -
tomorrow, next week, next month, next term - what's the difference |
Broderick |
Aug-29-11 10:39 PM |
#141 |
| -
Now more than ever. |
BlueCheese |
Aug-29-11 10:44 PM |
#144 |
| -
It's now or never. nt |
bemildred |
Aug-29-11 11:45 PM |
#153 |
| -
fool me once... |
amborin |
Aug-30-11 04:29 PM |
#168 |
| -
Deleted message |
Name removed |
Aug-30-11 08:22 PM |
#170 |
| -
Deleted message |
Name removed |
Aug-30-11 09:07 PM |
#171 |
| -
This is a progressive discussion board. I don't expect everyone to agree with me. |
Better Believe It |
Aug-30-11 09:51 PM |
#173 |
| -
Fool me once - Shame on you . . . |
lynne |
Aug-30-11 10:10 PM |
#174 |
| -
Everybody chill out. I got this. |
Zorra |
Aug-30-11 11:16 PM |
#176 |
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