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Reply #199: Agree with you except for the "more government and not less" [View All]

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suffragette Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-03-11 01:15 PM
Response to Reply #183
199. Agree with you except for the "more government and not less"
I don't think it's about "more" or less" but instead about the structure.

In many ways we have more government right now though it's not characterized as such.

We've seen huge growth in so-called "security" areas that are government funded.
A small example of this is the Border Patrol, which has received so much funding (while other agencies have had funding cut) that they are now performing work far outside the scope of their mission in order to justify all the money they receive.

http://www.seattleweekly.com/2011-07-27/news/nowhere-ne... /

http://www.seattleweekly.com/2011-08-03/news/bored-at-t... /

There's even a whistle blower who was harassed after he divulged that he had refused unearned overtime pay:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/dc-politics/border-...


Border Patrol whistleblower pays price for refusing unearned overtime pay

By Joe Davidson, Published: July 28

During a period when some in Congress and their related policy wonks think federal employees are overpaid, here comes Christian Sanchez, a Border Patrol agent who says he was punished for refusing overtime pay.

His bosses suggested that he get psychological help.

Instead, Sanchez has become a whistleblower, and on Friday he plans to tell gathering on Capitol Hill that he was retaliated against because he would not take overtime for doing no work.

~~~

The worst fraud on taxpayers is that we are getting paid overtime not to work, Sanchez said in a prepared statement. When he first started working at the station, I noticed it was common practice for everyone to get paid overtime not to work. Back then there were about twenty-four agents and our entire station was receiving at least two hours of Administratively Uncontrolled Overtime. Now, he said, there are more than 40 agents there.





I'd love to see an accounting of the increased funding that has gone to all these 'security" entities as a category, some newly created such as Dept of Homeland Security and some like the Border Patrol that have been operating beyond their mission to justify the increased budget. It would also need to include areas such as wire tapping (how much to pay for the rooms created for server traffic, such as at AT&T and the salaries for those monitoring all that) and the bureaucracies put in place in the last decade.



How much better that funding would be spent on social needs and investment in areas such as infrastructure (especially updating the grid and investing in sustainable energy technology. Instead, we've had amounts that are hard to even identify or track diverted for years now.
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  - It's all BULLSHIT. Retirement should be 55, Min Wage should be $20, Workweek 4 days leftstreet  Aug-02-11 07:16 PM   #0 
  - That is what life is like in those socialist democracies the media wants us to be so afraid of.  avaistheone1   Aug-02-11 07:18 PM   #1 
  - For now  bbinacan   Aug-02-11 07:21 PM   #3 
  - Deleted sub-thread  Name removed   Aug-02-11 07:51 PM   #29 
  - Norway has the largest capital reserve per capita of any nation  roxiejules   Aug-02-11 10:24 PM   #55 
  - Ssh! Ya don't want people to think you are some kind of  truedelphi   Aug-02-11 10:46 PM   #63 
  - Exactly! The USA is the BEST country and we don't need to learn from anyone just because they do  lib_wit_it   Aug-03-11 05:58 AM   #97 
  - Luck of the geologic draw  DissedByBush   Aug-02-11 10:54 PM   #68 
  - We have more oil reserves than Norway  roxiejules   Aug-02-11 11:24 PM   #74 
  - We have a bit over three times the oil  DissedByBush   Aug-03-11 08:55 AM   #119 
  - We have a bit over three times the oil  DissedByBush   Aug-03-11 08:56 AM   #120 
  - Yeah, because the USA is so devoid of natural resources and has such awful geographical location  liberation   Aug-03-11 03:04 AM   #91 
  - Much like the US getting one of the best geological hands ever dealt...  LanternWaste   Aug-03-11 09:22 AM   #125 
  - Norway also has an obscene amount of oil per capita which helps.  Lucky Luciano   Aug-03-11 06:16 AM   #98 
  - +1 -- thank you!  defendandprotect   Aug-03-11 10:04 AM   #142 
  - And they'll be the first to admit that it's because of a small  Skratchez   Aug-03-11 04:21 PM   #235 
  - Only because of our financial impact on so many other nations --  defendandprotect   Aug-03-11 10:04 AM   #141 
  - It's true. We DO have the money. They lie about it. All a ponzi scheme with the fed reserve  SugarShack   Aug-03-11 01:12 PM   #198 
  - That sounds too much like right  liberalmike27   Aug-03-11 05:37 PM   #248 
  - Is this a drive by fruiting? Are you trying to hijack this thread? nm  rhett o rick   Aug-03-11 07:19 PM   #260 
  - Alert. nm  rhett o rick   Aug-03-11 07:21 PM   #261 
  - Who are all going bankrupt?  Yo_Mama   Aug-02-11 08:15 PM   #38 
  - They're going bankrupt because of our policies and culture  FarLeftFist   Aug-02-11 11:54 PM   #77 
  - which ones?  stklurker   Aug-02-11 08:40 PM   #45 
  - Yep, first thing I thought of was Sweden and Finland  KelleyKramer   Aug-02-11 10:13 PM   #53 
  - Which ones?  Riftaxe   Aug-02-11 10:17 PM   #54 
  - Pretty much. A four day work week would guarantee full employment.  TrollBuster9090   Aug-02-11 11:05 PM   #70 
  - Actually, when you consider that US vacation is not MANDATED, that number is actually ZERO days.  HughBeaumont   Aug-03-11 04:54 AM   #95 
  - LABOR UNITED .... would get us there -- all we have to do is organize .....  defendandprotect   Aug-03-11 10:19 AM   #150 
  - But do they need us anymore in this global economy? Is there another nation positioned to become  54anickel   Aug-03-11 12:28 PM   #188 
  - Of course, then we'd have to re-regulate the corptocracy.  dotymed   Aug-03-11 02:13 PM   #211 
  - Retiring at 55  liberalmike27   Aug-03-11 05:43 PM   #249 
  - Instead we bought tanks and bullets  chrisa   Aug-03-11 11:27 AM   #177 
  - The only reason all those are not available is because we allow the productive gains of the masses..  Taitertots   Aug-02-11 07:20 PM   #2 
  - Exactly! n/t  RKP5637   Aug-02-11 07:24 PM   #8 
  - Yep  leftstreet   Aug-02-11 07:27 PM   #14 
  - Simple is beautiful in my Universe. nt  99th_Monkey   Aug-03-11 12:35 AM   #80 
  - I wish we could start a war  HysteryDiagnosis   Aug-02-11 07:28 PM   #15 
  - and think of the jobs created. nt  awoke_in_2003   Aug-02-11 10:07 PM   #52 
  - Let them fill up with cars and paint them black! Good for the automobile  brewens   Aug-03-11 03:42 PM   #229 
  - They keep saying "don't tax the rich or they'll leave." Leave for WHERE exactly?  TrollBuster9090   Aug-02-11 11:13 PM   #71 
  - +1000  geardaddy   Aug-03-11 10:16 AM   #148 
  - "Bus-i-ness" is BS ... because of it we've lost the planet ...  defendandprotect   Aug-03-11 10:40 AM   #157 
  - Well said.  54anickel   Aug-03-11 12:33 PM   #192 
  - You nailed it...n/t  whathehell   Aug-03-11 10:42 AM   #158 
  - Yup!  54anickel   Aug-03-11 12:33 PM   #193 
  - Been saying that for years  Prophet 451   Aug-03-11 01:41 PM   #203 
  - Precisely  Sherman A1   Aug-03-11 04:17 AM   #92 
  - + 1 (nt)  rbnyc   Aug-03-11 08:15 AM   #108 
  - +1  harun   Aug-03-11 11:24 AM   #175 
  - K&R  muffin1   Aug-02-11 07:22 PM   #4 
  - absolutely agree!  cabot   Aug-02-11 07:22 PM   #5 
  - Recommended. nt  TBF   Aug-02-11 07:23 PM   #6 
  - K&R  pleah   Aug-02-11 07:23 PM   #7 
  - There's no reason why we can't get it down to a 15-20 hour work week once the parasites are gone.  readmoreoften   Aug-02-11 07:25 PM   #9 
  - +1  leftstreet   Aug-02-11 11:28 PM   #76 
  - But don't you like having 700 MB's to combat the terrorists?? I mean I feel safer, you? n/t  HysteryDiagnosis   Aug-02-11 07:25 PM   #10 
  - America has $50,000 a year in per capita income  Juche   Aug-02-11 07:26 PM   #11 
  - Good ideas, but which politicians should they vote for?  leftstreet   Aug-02-11 07:32 PM   #18 
  - I agree  Juche   Aug-02-11 09:48 PM   #50 
  - True -- but it seems to be a concept that some are wishy-washy about ....  defendandprotect   Aug-03-11 10:17 AM   #149 
  - Representing the working classes would make THEM somehow working class. :shudder:  closeupready   Aug-03-11 02:12 PM   #210 
  - Think a new movement has to begin with everyone uniting as UNITED LABOR ....  defendandprotect   Aug-03-11 10:15 AM   #147 
     - IMO,That is the "fly in the ointment."  dotymed   Aug-03-11 04:32 PM   #238 
        - Health care is the current tool they are using to destroy citizens and community ....  defendandprotect   Aug-04-11 03:52 PM   #286 
  - Fucking-A  anarch   Aug-02-11 07:26 PM   #12 
  - except you know who is against that  hfojvt   Aug-02-11 07:27 PM   #13 
  - No -- Minimum wage is the floor under all other worker wages ....  defendandprotect   Aug-03-11 10:23 AM   #151 
  - Wrong...I make that and my spouse makes more...We are NOT against it, we are in favor of it.  whathehell   Aug-03-11 10:33 AM   #155 
  - The rich always need new livers and kidneys and hearts. They'll be pouching ours. nt  valerief   Aug-02-11 07:28 PM   #16 
  - If the GOP leaders agreed to that,  TheCowsCameHome   Aug-02-11 07:29 PM   #17 
  - You will never see a right-winger give an analogy of a guy making  brewens   Aug-02-11 07:33 PM   #19 
  - I hear you...  IthinkThereforeIAM   Aug-02-11 10:59 PM   #69 
     - We should move to a 5 hour day -- almost everyone can work that schedule ...!!  defendandprotect   Aug-03-11 10:47 AM   #159 
  - A vision for a great a society.  Proles   Aug-02-11 07:34 PM   #20 
  - It would open up positions and circulate money into the economy.  The Wizard   Aug-02-11 07:36 PM   #21 
  - Now that is what it's all about.  Octafish   Aug-02-11 07:38 PM   #22 
  - Until the Democrats start from those positions, their 'compromise' is a joke  leftstreet   Aug-02-11 07:40 PM   #24 
     - The joke's on us.  Octafish   Aug-02-11 08:15 PM   #37 
  - and there should be a reverse osmosis water system on every streetcorner and  Voice for Peace   Aug-02-11 07:40 PM   #23 
  - Every street corner?  Zanzoobar   Aug-02-11 07:48 PM   #27 
  - One question. For those jobs that do not generate $20 per hr of revenue,  kelly1mm   Aug-02-11 07:41 PM   #25 
  - Going strictly by revenue, we'd have to fire every elected official in DC  leftstreet   Aug-02-11 07:55 PM   #32 
  - Great point -- and obviously we're paying them to betray citizens and destroy environment -- !!  defendandprotect   Aug-03-11 10:57 AM   #161 
  - If the vast majority was making more then there would be more clients willing to pay more. (nt)  w4rma   Aug-03-11 01:37 AM   #84 
  - So you are going to pay $14 for a drive-thru burger?  snooper2   Aug-03-11 08:27 AM   #111 
     - I think that a burger large enough to drive through should cost even more than that. nt.  harmonicon   Aug-03-11 08:32 AM   #114 
     - hiyo!  SlavesandBulldozers   Aug-03-11 08:43 AM   #117 
     - what if it's made of foam  snooper2   Aug-03-11 08:45 AM   #118 
     - if the minimum wage were $20... McDonalds would have burger flipping MACHINES. nt  GSLevel9   Aug-03-11 02:37 PM   #219 
        - Burger King cooks them on a conveyer belt.  Capitalocracy   Aug-03-11 03:20 PM   #227 
  - There would be an adjustment in the economy  Capitalocracy   Aug-03-11 02:43 AM   #88 
  - So, inflation is the answer  DissedByBush   Aug-03-11 09:01 AM   #121 
  - It's not that simple.  Capitalocracy   Aug-03-11 03:08 PM   #224 
  - True ... if a company can only survive on underpaying employees, should it be in business?  defendandprotect   Aug-03-11 11:00 AM   #162 
     - I think a living wage would change the dynamic of how a lot of business works  Capitalocracy   Aug-03-11 03:14 PM   #226 
        - Agree -- interesting post ---  defendandprotect   Aug-04-11 03:26 PM   #284 
  - How much 'revenue' does a medical worker 'generate'?  Warren Stupidity   Aug-03-11 06:22 AM   #100 
  - Judging by my recent hospital stay, about $3000/day  dmallind   Aug-03-11 08:16 AM   #110 
     - There's very little machinery which doesn't require humans to run it -- and tend to it ...  defendandprotect   Aug-03-11 11:02 AM   #163 
  - no  greymattermom   Aug-03-11 07:30 AM   #104 
  - apples to oranges  harmonicon   Aug-03-11 08:31 AM   #113 
  - No, I don't think they would throw the money away. I guess my question  kelly1mm   Aug-03-11 03:01 PM   #223 
     - It's probably fair to you.  harmonicon   Aug-03-11 07:46 PM   #265 
  - Yes to your first question.  lumberjack_jeff   Aug-03-11 10:06 AM   #144 
  - What effect is your business having on the environment, if any -- ?  defendandprotect   Aug-03-11 10:56 AM   #160 
     - My business actually helps the environment. I buy cars, strip the resellable  kelly1mm   Aug-03-11 02:07 PM   #208 
        - Your competitors would have to pay their employees more and the sellable prices of parts would rise  w4rma   Aug-03-11 06:43 PM   #251 
           - Since most of them are paying people under the table already, I don't think so. nt  kelly1mm   Aug-03-11 10:09 PM   #269 
              - Guess you should be paying people under the table too, since  w4rma   Aug-03-11 10:49 PM   #270 
  - Love it.  kimmerspixelated   Aug-02-11 07:44 PM   #26 
  - Retirement age should be 22, min wage should be $50/hr, and a workweek of 2 days  Electric Monk   Aug-02-11 07:51 PM   #28 
  - With technology and our productivity, it's possible  leftstreet   Aug-02-11 07:53 PM   #31 
  - So, start a business and get to it.  OnlinePoker   Aug-02-11 10:34 PM   #58 
     - How many corporations would exist if they had to pay for the environmental damage they do ... ?  defendandprotect   Aug-03-11 11:11 AM   #168 
  - I guess you'd prefer  provis99   Aug-02-11 09:07 PM   #49 
  - Disagree  Sherman A1   Aug-03-11 04:18 AM   #93 
  - Yes.  treestar   Aug-03-11 11:05 AM   #165 
  - K&R  amborin   Aug-02-11 07:53 PM   #30 
  - Yea, but I bet most everyone would be satisfied watching more Shock and Awe on their plasma TV's  NNN0LHI   Aug-02-11 07:57 PM   #33 
  - "Idleness is the beginning of all wisdom" -- !! Libraries could be open 24 hours a day --  defendandprotect   Aug-03-11 11:12 AM   #169 
  - Don't forget 8 weeks guaranteed paid vacation (nt)  Nye Bevan   Aug-02-11 08:07 PM   #34 
  - Hell, most of Europe has at least five weeks, if I'm not mistaken. n/t  whathehell   Aug-03-11 10:36 AM   #156 
  - Paid Vacation Days in 9 countries - US dead last and losing more ground  Divernan   Aug-03-11 11:06 AM   #167 
     - I retired at age 57  riverbendviewgal   Aug-03-11 12:14 PM   #184 
     - What a wonderful world it would be - if we could all do that.  Divernan   Aug-03-11 02:14 PM   #212 
     - Yes, the US also has the smallest "safety net" of every western democracy and  whathehell   Aug-03-11 05:27 PM   #247 
  - Why not -- unless you also undervalue your own labor?  defendandprotect   Aug-03-11 11:14 AM   #170 
  - YAY!  Gregorian   Aug-02-11 08:09 PM   #35 
  - K&R  LongTomH   Aug-02-11 08:10 PM   #36 
  - What is a fair share of of the productivity that a worker should get? Please  kelly1mm   Aug-02-11 08:18 PM   #39 
  - Why should I hire someone if it does not benefit me?  Nye Bevan   Aug-02-11 08:30 PM   #40 
  - Have you ever ran a business?  Throd   Aug-02-11 08:32 PM   #41 
  - I wasn't saying that the poster was wrong (nt)  Nye Bevan   Aug-02-11 08:35 PM   #42 
  - Self delete - responded to wrong post. nt  kelly1mm   Aug-02-11 08:36 PM   #44 
  - I know that, but I am really interested in the answer. Most other businesses  kelly1mm   Aug-02-11 08:35 PM   #43 
     - Thanks for letting us know your employees 'are not (usually) drunk'  leftstreet   Aug-02-11 08:42 PM   #46 
     - Well one did come to work drunk twice. The only reason it is important  kelly1mm   Aug-02-11 08:52 PM   #47 
        - You're not reciting the realities of the workplace -- you're reporting on corporate/fascism ....  defendandprotect   Aug-03-11 11:21 AM   #173 
           - I am reporting on my small business with 2 employees and what others  kelly1mm   Aug-03-11 01:58 PM   #207 
              - If we didn't have corporate/fascism, minimum wage would be $20 per hour .....  defendandprotect   Aug-03-11 11:27 PM   #271 
     - So then you are not part of the problem.  wickerwoman   Aug-02-11 10:48 PM   #64 
     - +1000% --  defendandprotect   Aug-03-11 11:24 AM   #174 
     - And do you have profit-sharing ... ?  defendandprotect   Aug-03-11 11:20 AM   #172 
        - No, I don't have profit sharing. I am not a corporation, just a sole proprietor.  kelly1mm   Aug-03-11 02:27 PM   #213 
           - Would you be in business if the minimum wage was $20 per hour ... ?  defendandprotect   Aug-03-11 11:36 PM   #272 
  - Why should you profit at all from someone else's labor ... ?  defendandprotect   Aug-03-11 11:17 AM   #171 
  - You are right. I should just fire them so I am not exploiting them. That will teach me! nt  kelly1mm   Aug-03-11 03:41 PM   #228 
     - Well, that seems to be the answer you like best ---  defendandprotect   Aug-03-11 11:40 PM   #273 
  - Too little  DaveJ   Aug-03-11 12:29 PM   #189 
     - A $20 minimum wage would shut down every retailer in the country or collapse the economy  Mosby   Aug-03-11 01:18 PM   #200 
     - Employee costs wouldn't triple. Not all employees are earning the minimum.  Capitalocracy   Aug-03-11 03:45 PM   #230 
        - No one in non-mgmt retail makes anywhere near $41,600 per year  Mosby   Aug-03-11 04:58 PM   #241 
           - Employee costs include management.  Capitalocracy   Aug-03-11 05:20 PM   #245 
              - CEOs and other top mgmt make their obscene earnings through stock options not straight payroll.  Mosby   Aug-03-11 08:15 PM   #267 
     - I really like what I do. It is fun (to me) and I am not materialistic so I am  kelly1mm   Aug-03-11 02:35 PM   #217 
  - I recall that, too...  IthinkThereforeIAM   Aug-02-11 11:16 PM   #72 
  - Sounds good to me! How do you propose to get there?  johnaries   Aug-02-11 09:01 PM   #48 
  - You sir, are a great economist!  deaniac21   Aug-02-11 09:51 PM   #51 
  - I'm proud to be an American well at least I know I'm free..  workinclasszero   Aug-02-11 10:31 PM   #56 
  - I agree, but unfortunately we don't live in 'Should-land'  Stumbler   Aug-02-11 10:33 PM   #57 
  - k&r  Starry Messenger   Aug-02-11 10:36 PM   #59 
  - The era of compromise is over, we're in the era of "shared" sacrifice now.  Initech   Aug-02-11 10:39 PM   #60 
  - Agree.  Arugula Latte   Aug-02-11 10:42 PM   #61 
  - uhhhhhhhh  rdubwiley   Aug-02-11 10:45 PM   #62 
  - How about a realistic compromise of 63?  Enthusiast   Aug-03-11 02:44 AM   #89 
  - It could do so at about 60 or so  Sherman A1   Aug-03-11 04:23 AM   #94 
  - "Severe unemployment?" How do you get there from early retirement?  bread_and_roses   Aug-03-11 07:22 AM   #103 
  - Ok, are you hiring?  Fla_Democrat   Aug-02-11 10:48 PM   #65 
  - Reality...  Oasis_   Aug-02-11 10:50 PM   #66 
  - We have to organize and get just as bat-shit crazy left as teabaggers are right  Jim_Shorts   Aug-02-11 10:53 PM   #67 
  - Retirement at 55 isn't really feasible economically  mythology   Aug-02-11 11:23 PM   #73 
  - How much do Wall Street & the DOD 'pay into the system' vs what they take out?  leftstreet   Aug-02-11 11:27 PM   #75 
  - Thank you!  Enthusiast   Aug-03-11 02:46 AM   #90 
  - Deleted message  Name removed   Aug-03-11 09:23 AM   #126 
  - of course it's feasible. half the so-called "jobs" are non-productive anyway,  indurancevile   Aug-03-11 01:55 AM   #86 
  - +1  leftstreet   Aug-03-11 02:42 PM   #222 
  - 20 years and a pension seemed to work for some jobs.  Warren Stupidity   Aug-03-11 06:21 AM   #99 
     - Not really.  joeglow3   Aug-03-11 09:25 AM   #127 
        - And yet it worked for decades - and then we got Reagan  Warren Stupidity   Aug-03-11 09:38 AM   #134 
           - You realize why it worked for decades, right?  joeglow3   Aug-03-11 10:25 AM   #153 
  - Ah, Europe--just a utopia!  emsimon33   Aug-03-11 12:04 AM   #78 
  - Well, the way we got a five day work week and any minimum wage was...  MilesColtrane   Aug-03-11 12:35 AM   #79 
  - With retirement at 55, min wage at $20/hr, free medical, and a 4 day work week...  wundermaus   Aug-03-11 12:45 AM   #81 
  - Americans need to understand we are all labor --  defendandprotect   Aug-03-11 10:02 AM   #140 
  - K&R  Serve The Servants   Aug-03-11 01:07 AM   #82 
  - K&R  readmoreoften   Aug-03-11 01:16 AM   #83 
  - knr. for sure. what a number they are doing on people, "oooh, we're sooo poooor,  indurancevile   Aug-03-11 01:40 AM   #85 
  - i support a 5 hour workday  noiretextatique   Aug-03-11 02:15 AM   # 
  - i support a 5 hour workday  noiretextatique   Aug-03-11 02:15 AM   #87 
  - Uh, oh, you're a socialist.  tavalon   Aug-03-11 05:33 AM   #96 
  - It would work fine with capitalism  hack89   Aug-04-11 08:06 AM   #277 
  - Little known fact: UAW nearly achieved a 4-day workweek in 1979  NNN0LHI   Aug-03-11 06:26 AM   #101 
  - I think a 4-day workweek is a great idea. My husband used to work at a company  Luciferous   Aug-03-11 09:36 AM   #131 
     - Not a 10 hour a day 4-day workweek. That doesn't help anything  NNN0LHI   Aug-03-11 12:39 PM   #195 
  - All very possible, but for the problem of Capitalism.  blindpig   Aug-03-11 07:21 AM   #102 
  - Maybe EVERYTHING should be free - you wouldn't need minimum wage, work weeks OR a retirement age.  Richardo   Aug-03-11 07:32 AM   #105 
  - Slumming, Richardo?  TBF   Aug-03-11 07:42 AM   #106 
     - It's been tried.  Richardo   Aug-03-11 08:05 AM   #107 
     - So has capitalism - which also is not sustainable. You've seen  TBF   Aug-03-11 09:41 AM   #136 
        - It seems to work fine in Sweden and Norway - why can't we be like them? nt  hack89   Aug-03-11 09:56 AM   #138 
           - I found this article on Sweden which is very interesting -  TBF   Aug-03-11 10:05 AM   #143 
              - Embrace capitalism like they do and add the necessary regulations  hack89   Aug-03-11 10:10 AM   #146 
                 - This makes sense.  Richardo   Aug-03-11 07:03 PM   #257 
                 - delete  mvd   Aug-03-11 07:17 PM   #258 
     - What about the people who don't want to work because their "back hurts"  snooper2   Aug-03-11 08:30 AM   #112 
     - Therein lies the problem  joeglow3   Aug-03-11 09:29 AM   #129 
     - Good thing not all of us are lazy assholes.  Starry Messenger   Aug-04-11 02:04 AM   #275 
        - Nice job attacking me and not answering the question  joeglow3   Aug-04-11 07:07 AM   #276 
           - I do, but I can tell you wouldn't understand it.  Starry Messenger   Aug-04-11 09:28 AM   #279 
              - ANOTHER attack and no answer  joeglow3   Aug-04-11 11:17 AM   #281 
     - how about the death penalty for shirkers?  Warren Stupidity   Aug-03-11 09:35 AM   #130 
     - There are some really shitty jobs out there, and they pay good because  snooper2   Aug-04-11 09:08 AM   #278 
     - What do we do with them now? nt  TBF   Aug-03-11 09:41 AM   #137 
     - What about the people who f*** up the global economy  CJCRANE   Aug-03-11 12:31 PM   #191 
     - That's uncalled for  treestar   Aug-03-11 11:06 AM   #166 
        - I was giving him the benefit of the doubt rather than just assuming  TBF   Aug-03-11 11:34 AM   #180 
  - K&R n/t  myrna minx   Aug-03-11 08:15 AM   #109 
  - Healthcare IS NOT free. Even in Norway, it's not free. It's paid for with their TAXES.  raccoon   Aug-03-11 08:39 AM   #115 
  - Agree 100%  colsohlibgal   Aug-03-11 08:41 AM   #116 
  - Couldn't disagree more.  center rising   Aug-03-11 09:04 AM   #122 
  - enthusiastic kr  inna   Aug-03-11 09:10 AM   #123 
  - Hi leftstreet. That all sounds appealing, but you haven't addressed the other side of the coin.  slackmaster   Aug-03-11 09:21 AM   #124 
  - Right. Only Wall Street and the DOD are allowed 'utopia'  leftstreet   Aug-03-11 12:17 PM   #185 
  - I don't understand your reaction at all  slackmaster   Aug-03-11 12:23 PM   #187 
     - Try to follow me  leftstreet   Aug-03-11 12:29 PM   #190 
     - The DOD employs ~ 2 million people, including 700,000 civilians. They all pay taxes.  Richardo   Aug-03-11 01:04 PM   #196 
     - Wasn't referring to the laboring classes, just the predator class  leftstreet   Aug-03-11 02:38 PM   #220 
        - Wow  Richardo   Aug-03-11 06:57 PM   #254 
     - I see, you are hung up on your inappropriate negative reaction to my choice of a word  slackmaster   Aug-03-11 01:10 PM   #197 
        - Accusing working class people of 'Utopian' ideals when they want their fair share?  leftstreet   Aug-03-11 02:34 PM   #216 
           - Justifiably negative IMO, and I stand by my choice of words  slackmaster   Aug-03-11 02:40 PM   #221 
              - The working class IS the system. There is no 'other half.' n/t  leftstreet   Aug-03-11 03:14 PM   #225 
                 - So everybody receives a bounty of benefits, and nobody pays into it.  slackmaster   Aug-03-11 04:22 PM   #236 
                    - My sincere apologies if English is not your first language  leftstreet   Aug-03-11 06:47 PM   #253 
                       - Clear writing is not your strong subject  slackmaster   Aug-03-11 09:13 PM   #268 
     - Deleted message  Name removed   Aug-03-11 07:23 PM   #263 
  - Deleted message  Name removed   Aug-03-11 07:22 PM   #262 
     - Wat?  slackmaster   Aug-04-11 09:30 AM   #280 
  - K&R  Luciferous   Aug-03-11 09:28 AM   #128 
  - Don't forget vacations!  dash_bannon   Aug-03-11 09:36 AM   #132 
  - I actually like working  Johnny2X2X   Aug-03-11 09:37 AM   #133 
  - In reality, no doubt about it.  dotymed   Aug-03-11 09:40 AM   #135 
  - And momentum was going that way at one point --  defendandprotect   Aug-03-11 09:59 AM   #139 
  - Agree -- also note that production is up 35% over last decades ... salaries down ...  defendandprotect   Aug-03-11 10:09 AM   #145 
  - K&R I'm not an economist but this is much more effective than  midnight   Aug-03-11 10:23 AM   #152 
  - Sounds good to me!..n/t  whathehell   Aug-03-11 10:29 AM   #154 
  - +1  blkmusclmachine   Aug-03-11 11:04 AM   #164 
  - 3 more years to retirement - that would be great  liberal N proud   Aug-03-11 11:25 AM   #176 
  - If you run for President, I'll vote for you.  smirkymonkey   Aug-03-11 11:30 AM   #178 
  - K&R.  William769   Aug-03-11 11:34 AM   #179 
  - Would only work if it was worldwide, adjusted for cost of living. -nt  Commie Pinko Dirtbag   Aug-03-11 11:35 AM   #181 
  - Exactly -- scrolled to the end, looking for that global perespective  mojowork_n   Aug-03-11 12:20 PM   #186 
  - Slavery made this nation what it is today  DaveJ   Aug-03-11 12:10 PM   #182 
  - You have the right idea  mvd   Aug-03-11 12:13 PM   #183 
  - Agree with you except for the "more government and not less"  suffragette   Aug-03-11 01:15 PM   #199 
  - Well, I meant in areas where it's needed  mvd   Aug-03-11 04:09 PM   #232 
     - I see what you are saying as well  suffragette   Aug-03-11 04:43 PM   #239 
        - 100% agree  mvd   Aug-03-11 05:06 PM   #242 
           - I'm better at researching, putting things together and contextualizing  suffragette   Aug-04-11 01:07 AM   #274 
  - So how do you create more rich people to tax?  hack89   Aug-04-11 01:57 PM   #283 
  - I'll vote for all that!  Hubert Flottz   Aug-03-11 12:38 PM   #194 
  - Not in the U.S Fucking A ...  daggahead   Aug-03-11 01:25 PM   #201 
  - A $20 minimum wage is ridiculous  Mosby   Aug-03-11 01:25 PM   #202 
  - Chase CEO Jamie Dimon made $10k +change PER HOUR last year  leftstreet   Aug-03-11 02:31 PM   #214 
     - The poster was talking kroger though not Chase  cstanleytech   Aug-03-11 05:17 PM   #244 
  - Now that's an idea I could get behind.  ileus   Aug-03-11 01:44 PM   #204 
  - Freedom's just another word for nothing left to lose !!  russspeakeasy   Aug-03-11 01:49 PM   #205 
  - Gloom. Doom. Despair. My kingdom for a pony.  Bucky   Aug-03-11 01:52 PM   #206 
  - + Infinity - Remember pushing Left = TRAITOR!  seeker4ever   Aug-03-11 02:10 PM   #209 
  - Not surea bout retirement at 55 but minimum wage should sure be $20 and hour.  pam4water   Aug-03-11 02:34 PM   #215 
  - Kicked and Recommended  B Calm   Aug-03-11 02:36 PM   #218 
  - K&R  Eyerish   Aug-03-11 03:49 PM   #231 
  - Why should I have to work at all?  kctim   Aug-03-11 04:12 PM   #233 
  - Another thing I support is a large government jobs program  mvd   Aug-03-11 04:15 PM   #234 
     - With you on that, as long as it's not TSA type jobs.  GoneOffShore   Aug-03-11 04:23 PM   #237 
  - 55 20 4...  NeoGreen   Aug-03-11 04:51 PM   #240 
  - Is this opinion/rant or is it a fact/rant?  cstanleytech   Aug-03-11 05:10 PM   #243 
  - Just rant.  Richardo   Aug-03-11 07:02 PM   #256 
  - Wow - talk about the entitlement mentality.  True Earthling   Aug-03-11 05:24 PM   #246 
  - Didn't they do something like that in Germany?  abelenkpe   Aug-03-11 05:50 PM   #250 
  - Agreed.  geckosfeet   Aug-03-11 06:46 PM   #252 
  - "It's all BULLSHIT" alright.  Richardo   Aug-03-11 07:02 PM   #255 
  - BTW, added my K&R  mvd   Aug-03-11 07:18 PM   #259 
  - Deleted message  Name removed   Aug-03-11 07:26 PM   #264 
  - As someone who did retire at 55.....it's a swell idea.  Tierra_y_Libertad   Aug-03-11 07:56 PM   #266 
  - Then you should retire at 55 and pay you workers at least $20/hr & only ask them to work 4 days/week  Freddie Stubbs   Aug-04-11 11:20 AM   #282 
  - Go on....so far I agree with you.  RegieRocker   Aug-04-11 03:28 PM   #285 
 

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