LanternWaste
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Mon Jul-25-11 08:26 AM
Response to Original message |
| 68. I believe the argument is predicated on the perception |
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"So aren't the "true christian" people really arguing that you cease being christian if you sin?..."
I think no; I believe the argument is predicated on the perception that in giving one's hart to Christ, one becomes a Christian-- that being something no one else can possibly be aware of, and must then take the acceptance or denial on faith of the person claiming it. The belief that someone else is a Christian is then further built on both the person's statement, and that person's acts and deed-- which would either strengthen or weaken the claim.
As to what a true Christian is... just saying so doesn't make it a so. Regardless, it makes little difference to me whether the individual was a Christian or not as his episode was hardly indicative of church tenets.
|
| -I keep hearing about how anders breivik isn't a "true" Christian |
Search and Destroy |
Jul-24-11 12:24 AM |
#0 |
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Here it is, in a nutshell: |
Warren DeMontague |
Jul-24-11 12:28 AM |
#1 |
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So there's no such thing as a "True Liberal"? LOL! So many DU'ers fling the words DINO around. |
KittyWampus |
Jul-25-11 09:29 AM |
#71 |
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No, there isn't. |
Warren DeMontague |
Jul-25-11 06:36 PM |
#88 |
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+1 |
hifiguy |
Jul-27-11 02:21 PM |
#129 |
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Don't they always say that? |
mindwalker_i |
Jul-24-11 12:30 AM |
#2 |
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People say anything to protect the Right.. To think a person |
OHdem10 |
Jul-24-11 12:31 AM |
#3 |
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Makes sense to me. Christians have a violent history and have destroyed many cultures... |
Ferret Annica |
Jul-24-11 12:35 AM |
#4 |
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oh for fuck's sake. If you said anything similar about Islam here, you'd be jumped on for being a |
cali |
Jul-24-11 03:20 AM |
#11 |
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I have nothing against anyone's religion.... |
Ferret Annica |
Jul-24-11 03:30 AM |
#14 |
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Oh bullshit, you don't practice any fucking form of religious tolerance. |
cali |
Jul-24-11 03:53 AM |
#19 |
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And your opinion is because...? |
Ferret Annica |
Jul-24-11 04:19 AM |
#21 |
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Who forced you to go to Catholic church? |
Mimosa |
Jul-24-11 04:49 AM |
#24 |
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You mean DELUDED People often shape their religions to suit their needs. (nt) |
mr blur |
Jul-24-11 06:37 AM |
#29 |
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Christianity, Islam, and Judaism were created by man to suit our species' needs |
Ferret Annica |
Jul-24-11 01:24 PM |
#35 |
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So was Wicca. |
Behind the Aegis |
Jul-24-11 11:47 PM |
#42 |
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And you feel this is something that is a revelation to me? |
Ferret Annica |
Jul-25-11 04:57 AM |
#55 |
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It very well may be. |
Behind the Aegis |
Jul-25-11 05:10 AM |
#58 |
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Indeed; believe what yoi want, discuss what you want, |
Ferret Annica |
Jul-25-11 05:38 AM |
#59 |
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Nor am I threatened by your views or illogical remarks. |
Behind the Aegis |
Jul-25-11 05:41 AM |
#61 |
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There is that little old ad hominem thing again... |
Ferret Annica |
Jul-25-11 06:04 AM |
#62 |
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Your posts are sorely lacking. |
Behind the Aegis |
Jul-25-11 11:56 AM |
#83 |
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Excellent. |
Wait Wut |
Jul-27-11 09:07 AM |
#127 |
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"species"? Absolutely not. Particular human cultures out of thousands. nt |
greyl |
Jul-26-11 02:20 AM |
#102 |
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I distinctly remember rejecting Christian religion at a very early age. |
Ferret Annica |
Jul-24-11 01:22 PM |
#34 |
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all good except the cetaceans |
SwampG8r |
Jul-25-11 09:28 AM |
#70 |
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I hope you were kidding about your last sentence |
Angry Dragon |
Jul-26-11 02:47 AM |
#104 |
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yes a common florida waterjoke |
SwampG8r |
Jul-26-11 06:37 PM |
#117 |
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My problem is with all religion... |
backscatter712 |
Jul-24-11 03:58 AM |
#20 |
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You do realize "Israel" is not a religion, right? |
Behind the Aegis |
Jul-24-11 05:15 AM |
#25 |
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You do realize that not supporting Zionism is not anti-Semitism I hope. |
Ferret Annica |
Jul-24-11 01:36 PM |
#37 |
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Deleted sub-thread |
Name removed |
Jul-24-11 11:46 PM |
#41 |
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Irrelevant nonsense. And doesn't answer the question. |
Behind the Aegis |
Jul-25-11 11:44 AM |
#80 |
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As a former Wiccan... |
Wait Wut |
Jul-26-11 06:53 PM |
#124 |
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thank you nt |
WolverineDG |
Jul-24-11 09:08 AM |
#33 |
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Don't be offended if I ask you to name which "cultures" have been destroyed. |
cherokeeprogressive |
Jul-24-11 03:26 AM |
#13 |
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The Spanish had what is called 'the requirement' |
Ferret Annica |
Jul-24-11 03:47 AM |
# |
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double |
Ferret Annica |
Jul-24-11 03:47 AM |
#16 |
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double |
Ferret Annica |
Jul-24-11 03:47 AM |
# |
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double |
Ferret Annica |
Jul-24-11 03:47 AM |
#17 |
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The bigger question is this: |
FourScore |
Jul-24-11 12:40 AM |
#5 |
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They're just using the "No True Scotsman" fallacy. |
sakabatou |
Jul-24-11 12:47 AM |
#6 |
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+1000 |
Blue_Tires |
Jul-25-11 11:03 AM |
#77 |
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Well, if to be a "true" Xtian one must follow the rules, he pretty much screwed the pooch |
MADem |
Jul-24-11 12:54 AM |
#7 |
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You believe that God is one. You do well; the demons also believe, and shudder. James 2:19 |
bluesbassman |
Jul-24-11 12:57 AM |
#8 |
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was he a true christian? only god can judge |
SwampG8r |
Jul-24-11 01:16 AM |
#9 |
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I think what people are saying when they say that is that he isn't representative of Christianity an |
cali |
Jul-24-11 03:17 AM |
#10 |
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I think that's a good interpretation |
Union Scribe |
Jul-24-11 06:32 AM |
#28 |
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K&R |
AlabamaLibrul |
Jul-24-11 03:25 AM |
#12 |
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So the gist of your post is an attempt to tie him to "true" Christians? |
cherokeeprogressive |
Jul-24-11 03:35 AM |
#15 |
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This guy was no Christian |
Ferret Annica |
Jul-24-11 04:33 AM |
#23 |
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No, the gist of my post is that there is no such thing as a "true" christian |
Search and Destroy |
Jul-25-11 02:25 AM |
#46 |
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Caedite eos. Novit enim Dominus qui sunt eius. |
Kennah |
Jul-24-11 03:49 AM |
#18 |
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interesting quote: |
Ferret Annica |
Jul-24-11 04:31 AM |
#22 |
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He certainly wasn't a true Scotsman. |
U4ikLefty |
Jul-24-11 06:08 AM |
#26 |
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! |
Critters2 |
Jul-26-11 06:43 PM |
#118 |
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You are Christian if you say you are .... there are NO other requirements |
divvy |
Jul-24-11 06:21 AM |
#27 |
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I disagree and I'll tell you why... |
noel711 |
Jul-24-11 07:18 AM |
#30 |
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Sorry, but your argument is limited to Orthodoxy |
divvy |
Jul-25-11 03:48 AM |
#52 |
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Go ahead, speak for pentecostals.. |
noel711 |
Jul-25-11 05:40 AM |
#60 |
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Lets try the acid test which is more to my point..... |
divvy |
Jul-25-11 10:41 AM |
#75 |
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duplicate |
divvy |
Jul-25-11 03:48 AM |
#53 |
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"to proclaim the good news of Jesus Christ in word and deed" -- UGH |
Arugula Latte |
Jul-25-11 07:26 PM |
#91 |
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Not quite. And CERTAINLY not in Roman Catholic Christianity. |
WinkyDink |
Jul-25-11 06:28 AM |
#63 |
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If he had self-identified as a Liberal Progressive American Democrat.... |
hlthe2b |
Jul-24-11 08:17 AM |
#31 |
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Well said. Thank you. nt |
Critters2 |
Jul-26-11 06:44 PM |
#119 |
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Christians don't kill people...nt |
SidDithers |
Jul-24-11 09:04 AM |
#32 |
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They have done so throughout history, and still do /nt |
Bragi |
Jul-25-11 06:33 AM |
#65 |
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Hmm, tell that to the victims of the Inquisition & the Crusades & Salem witchhunt |
Arugula Latte |
Jul-25-11 07:31 PM |
#92 |
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Well, at least they aren't trying to make an Atheist out of him. |
BiggJawn |
Jul-24-11 01:35 PM |
#36 |
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The way I see it - he was a Christian. So was MLK |
Taverner |
Jul-24-11 01:37 PM |
#38 |
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He was a CINO. Kinda missed the parts about "Thou shalt not kill" and |
kestrel91316 |
Jul-24-11 01:51 PM |
#39 |
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Eh, I would say that tarring with a wide brush is a time-honored tradition of humans.. |
Fumesucker |
Jul-24-11 11:59 PM |
#43 |
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But he totally got "I came not to bring peace but the sword." |
LeftyMom |
Jul-25-11 02:33 AM |
#47 |
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Sinning does NOT make you not a christian anymore |
Search and Destroy |
Jul-25-11 02:47 AM |
#50 |
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You can call yourself a turnip.. does not make you a turnip |
Peacetrain |
Jul-24-11 02:02 PM |
#40 |
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comparing apples and oranges a bit, I think |
upi402 |
Jul-25-11 12:00 AM |
#44 |
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That would mean that in two thousand years of Christianity there were almost no actual Christians. |
LeftyMom |
Jul-25-11 02:36 AM |
#48 |
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You finally understand and did not need to ingest that famous haggis |
Peacetrain |
Jul-25-11 05:05 AM |
#56 |
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Oh for pity's sake. |
LeftyMom |
Jul-25-11 08:05 AM |
#67 |
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Oh I get it...you get to define what a Christian is |
Peacetrain |
Jul-25-11 08:39 AM |
#69 |
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your perception of what a Christian is |
Bluerthanblue |
Jul-25-11 10:15 AM |
#74 |
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You know the rest of us read you guys' rule book too, right? |
LeftyMom |
Jul-25-11 11:11 AM |
#79 |
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he is right its from jesus own lips |
SwampG8r |
Jul-25-11 09:47 AM |
#73 |
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No, Peace Train is exactly right. |
dawg |
Jul-26-11 06:46 AM |
#109 |
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Christianity is not a religion |
Angry Dragon |
Jul-26-11 03:08 AM |
#105 |
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Christians themselves don't even agree on the "two great laws." |
trotsky |
Jul-26-11 07:26 AM |
#113 |
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Killing 90 people could make you a Christian. |
Manifestor_of_Light |
Jul-27-11 04:35 PM |
#131 |
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It is easier to distance oneself from the actions of others |
Cerridwen |
Jul-25-11 12:03 AM |
#45 |
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I am kind of sick of hearing this defensive measure |
fujiyama |
Jul-25-11 02:37 AM |
#49 |
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It's based on the unfounded bigotry that religion is "good" |
PurityOfEssence |
Jul-25-11 03:36 AM |
#51 |
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Breivik HIMSELF says that he's not very religious |
Lydia Leftcoast |
Jul-25-11 03:56 AM |
#54 |
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Interesting. I hadn't read this. Thanks. nt |
Critters2 |
Jul-26-11 06:45 PM |
#120 |
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His multiple acts of murder are inconsistent with the version of Christianity that I was taught |
slackmaster |
Jul-25-11 05:05 AM |
#57 |
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One can be a Christian while breaking its tenets, just as one can be a Democrat who...... |
WinkyDink |
Jul-25-11 06:31 AM |
#64 |
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Yup, I've started using the phrase "No True Democrat" when this nonsense crops up. |
KittyWampus |
Jul-25-11 09:30 AM |
#72 |
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+1 nt |
Critters2 |
Jul-26-11 06:46 PM |
#121 |
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The problem isn't "insufficient religiousity" it's religion itself /nt |
Bragi |
Jul-25-11 06:35 AM |
#66 |
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I believe the argument is predicated on the perception |
LanternWaste |
Jul-25-11 08:26 AM |
#68 |
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Was Joe Lieberman a "true" Democrat? |
WildEyedLiberal |
Jul-25-11 10:42 AM |
#76 |
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Apparently so. nt |
Critters2 |
Jul-26-11 06:46 PM |
#122 |
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He's a feminized mama's boy, by his own admission, is what I've heard. |
Octafish |
Jul-25-11 11:10 AM |
#78 |
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"No True Scotsman" |
KamaAina |
Jul-25-11 11:51 AM |
#81 |
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You nailed it. |
AlinPA |
Jul-25-11 12:05 PM |
#87 |
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Hitler wasn't, either |
KamaAina |
Jul-25-11 11:52 AM |
#82 |
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Give it up, already! |
timtom |
Jul-25-11 11:56 AM |
#84 |
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Many folks who say they are 'christians' really are following what paul did |
LynneSin |
Jul-25-11 12:01 PM |
#85 |
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Agreed |
Taverner |
Jul-25-11 12:02 PM |
#86 |
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I'm actually an alien who hails from the Pegasi sysytem. It's true because I said so. |
roomfullofmirrors |
Jul-25-11 06:52 PM |
#89 |
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I get SO tired of hearing that phrase... |
krabigirl |
Jul-25-11 06:53 PM |
#90 |
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I never met a "True Christian". |
RagAss |
Jul-25-11 07:34 PM |
#93 |
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No more that Mohammed Atta was representative of "true Muslims". |
11 Bravo |
Jul-25-11 07:35 PM |
#94 |
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Atta had people with him, directing him and following him - and when he was done he was hero to many |
nomb |
Jul-25-11 07:44 PM |
#96 |
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i haven't heard anyone say he wasn't a "true" christian |
pitohui |
Jul-25-11 07:37 PM |
#95 |
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bill o'reilly said today |
Angry Dragon |
Jul-26-11 03:21 AM |
#106 |
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Are you a Marxist if you believe Karl Marx existed? |
JackRiddler |
Jul-25-11 08:22 PM |
#97 |
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No, because Marxism isn't based around the belief that Marx is the son of God |
Search and Destroy |
Jul-25-11 09:39 PM |
#98 |
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Now I understand your username... |
JackRiddler |
Jul-25-11 10:19 PM |
#99 |
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"Amen" |
Demeter |
Jul-25-11 10:53 PM |
#100 |
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Pie Jesu Domine, dona eis requiem. |
txlibdem |
Jul-26-11 08:52 AM |
#115 |
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But surely you don't think a business owner ... |
dawg |
Jul-26-11 06:52 AM |
#110 |
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I don't think the 9-11 bombers were true Muslims either. |
dawg |
Jul-26-11 06:54 AM |
#111 |
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Does sinning automatically make one not a christian? |
Search and Destroy |
Jul-26-11 03:45 PM |
#116 |
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well, even Sam Harris didn't think so |
Duppers |
Jul-26-11 01:27 AM |
#101 |
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Interesting! nt |
greyl |
Jul-26-11 02:24 AM |
#103 |
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This is an enjoyable thread .............. |
Angry Dragon |
Jul-26-11 03:26 AM |
#107 |
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I always disliked those "...wasn't a true XXX because true XXX don't do that sort of stuff" lines. |
octothorpe |
Jul-26-11 04:45 AM |
#108 |
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As I already posted, Breivik himself says that he's not especially religious |
Lydia Leftcoast |
Jul-26-11 07:10 AM |
#112 |
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Strange that someone "not especially religious"... |
trotsky |
Jul-26-11 07:30 AM |
#114 |
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He claims in his own manifesto that he is not religious, and considers |
Critters2 |
Jul-26-11 06:51 PM |
#123 |
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Well I guess the thing we need to take away here... |
trotsky |
Jul-26-11 07:16 PM |
#125 |
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Where did I use the word "non-believer"? I said he doesn't claim to be religious. |
Critters2 |
Jul-27-11 02:09 PM |
#128 |
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Don't worry, you're as clear as can be. |
trotsky |
Jul-27-11 02:43 PM |
#130 |
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It isn't a true christian |
TheBigotBasher |
Jul-26-11 07:21 PM |
#126 |
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