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Obama's speech angered me. I have done an about face on politicians since 2003. [View All]

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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-11-11 12:45 PM
Original message
Obama's speech angered me. I have done an about face on politicians since 2003.
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Edited on Mon Jul-11-11 12:55 PM by madfloridian
Why did I pick 2003? That's the year hubby and I first became involved politically. I actually believed in and trusted a politician. We spent a lot of money thinking we could actually make a difference.

I have since learned better.

Today's speech was politics, pure and simple. It had no heart. There is no excuse for the stress our own party is putting on seniors by including benefit cuts in Social Security and Medicare.

Either they don't realize the harm being done by implying that these programs should be "shared sacrifices"....implying they are equal to the harm corporations have done in this country....or they just plain don't care.

And if they don't care, that means they don't care about the votes that might be lost by taking such implausible positions. (Please note: I am not saying I will not support Democrats) Have they thought about how it looks to seniors in both parties for a Democratic president to so eagerly put these programs on the bargaining table? I think not. He could get a lot more points for defending them whole-heartedly.

It's all a big game to our party now. The centrist think tanks have joined the right wing in pretty much completely damaging the word "liberal", which they use to refer to all of us who question their policies. Their policies are stealthily moving right, and we are supposed to pretend we don't notice.

The think tanks are changing their names, but their policies have remained the same. The head of the Third Way brags of leading an anti-Social Security group in the 90s.

From blog archives, about 1994, though no date is given...there is a scathing review of Jon Cowan who helped start the war between the generations over Social Security. He is now the same Jonathan Cowan who is president of the Third Way which is the new policy shop for Democrats. He appears to have the ear of the president.

Here are some comments from that long ago blog post. It appears Cowan and his buddies have managed to make seniors appears to be greedy old coots. It started in the early 90s with his group called Lead or Leave.

Lead or Leave, and the Sell-out of my generation

Handsome Strangers

Nobody knows where they came from. From out of the TV sets of America, in the summer of 1992, a couple of goofy white guys in T-shirts rode down on the hearts and minds of a nation.

They came not with a message, but with a sound-bite. They carried cellular phones rather than revolvers. And their bandoleers were stuffed not with bullets -- but with money. Lots of money.

They called themselves "Lead...or Leave." The sum total of their wisdom could be reduced to a phrase or two. "Generation X has a problem," they said, "and that problem is the national debt. We gotta cut social spending... and cut it right quick. Or there'll be a revolution of angry young taxpayers. You Greedy Geezers better take notice. Your days are numbered."


Just a little more about how such "grassroots" groups arose even back then. The blogger points out that "Two guys who moved in some pretty powerful circles in Washington. These two guys just woke up one day and decided to found a "grassroots" organization? I don't think so."

Anything they do or participate in gets trumpeted by their PR machine to the high heavens. And when I say PR machine, I mean machine. From the beginning, Lead or Leave retained the services of public relations firms. In the early days it was a company called Fenton Communications. Now it's a group called Millennium. These services are not cheap, which is why most actual grassroots organizations can rarely afford the price of such manipulators of the American conscience. Lead or Leave put them to good use. They have appeared all over the network media, radio, and print as "spokesmen" for young Americans. Anything they say, no matter how outlandish or unsubstantiated, has been faithfully reproduced from coast to coast.


The blogger points out that the group leaders Cowan and Nelson were obviously part of a bigger picture. He goes on to point out some of the funders, big money people who do not care for Social Security.

Many of the ideas that permeate Lead or Leave's literature can also be found in the literature of the Concord Coalition, to whom their direct ties are numerous. Concord members on their advisory board include Richard Dennis (who is a major funder of libertarian causes), Clyde V. Prestowitz, Jr., and Paul Tsongas. Pete Peterson, a Concord Coalition founder, though not a Lead or Leave board member, is doubtless much enamored of them. Cowan and Nelson certainly mention him and his organization constantly in their work. And the Concord Coalition's World Wide Web site on the Internet is linked directly to Lead or Leave's new site. It seems obvious that there is more than a casual connection between the two groups.


Now Jon Cowan's voice is being heard even more loudly. The president's words today echoed these sentiments of shared sacrifice and the meme of everyone has to hurt.

All they have done through the years is change the name of the groups involved. The goals appear to have been reached.


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  -Obama's speech angered me. I have done an about face on politicians since 2003. madfloridian  Jul-11-11 12:45 PM   #0 
  - recommend  xchrom   Jul-11-11 12:46 PM   #1 
  - Where are your posts holding the GOP accountable?  VeryConfused   Jul-11-11 12:51 PM   #2 
  - The president is a Democrat.  madfloridian   Jul-11-11 12:54 PM   #4 
  - First off you didn't give me a link showing even one post calling out the GOP  VeryConfused   Jul-11-11 12:56 PM   #8 
  - The only reason the SC is stacked is because the Dems let it be.  kickysnana   Jul-11-11 12:58 PM   #13 
  - I disagree, the liberals are to blame  VeryConfused   Jul-11-11 01:01 PM   #17 
  - Oh dear, another liberal hater/blamer...  Flubadubya   Jul-11-11 01:20 PM   #39 
  - Deleted message  Name removed   Jul-11-11 06:35 PM   #107 
  - So where did Alito and Roberts come from then?  Hydra   Jul-11-11 01:37 PM   #45 
  - Or Scalia and Thomas?  Fuddnik   Jul-11-11 04:10 PM   #79 
  - Liberals don't have a huge power base to draw from like the GOP does.  Rex   Jul-11-11 04:01 PM   #76 
  - Ralph Nader  VeryConfused   Jul-12-11 10:30 AM   #183 
     - Wrong liberals didn't vote for Ralph, how quickly we lie  Rex   Jul-12-11 10:33 AM   #188 
        - Really? You are trying to claim that liberals didn't vote for Ralph?  VeryConfused   Jul-12-11 10:45 AM   #190 
           - Oh so you can do it, but I cannot.  Rex   Jul-12-11 02:09 PM   #223 
  - Deleted message  Name removed   Jul-11-11 04:07 PM   #77 
  - Deleted message  Name removed   Jul-12-11 10:28 AM   #182 
  - Yay, another liberal basher. Do you work for this White House?  Bluebear   Jul-11-11 04:21 PM   #84 
  - Do you work for the GOP? what kind of question/accusation was that?  VeryConfused   Jul-12-11 10:30 AM   #184 
  - Why is it that big, bad libruls are expected to do all the heavy lifting...  WorseBeforeBetter   Jul-11-11 04:27 PM   #85 
  - Forget heavy lifting, how about just not helping the GOP  VeryConfused   Jul-12-11 10:31 AM   #185 
  - A Democratic president is embracing Republican policies...  WorseBeforeBetter   Jul-12-11 10:47 AM   #192 
     - The President wants to raise taxes on the wealthy  VeryConfused   Jul-12-11 10:48 AM   #193 
        - He talks a good game.  WorseBeforeBetter   Jul-12-11 10:52 AM   #194 
        - You talk a good game  VeryConfused   Jul-12-11 10:56 AM   #195 
           - Endless wars, widening gap between rich and poor,  WorseBeforeBetter   Jul-12-11 11:01 AM   #196 
              - On second thought you don't talk a good game  VeryConfused   Jul-12-11 11:18 AM   #199 
                 - "An arbitrary cruelty."  WorseBeforeBetter   Jul-12-11 02:03 PM   #221 
        - You know this how?  lark   Jul-12-11 11:34 AM   #201 
  - Heh heh, the Sensibles in the Sensible Center, as the DLC called itself  madfloridian   Jul-15-11 12:41 PM   #234 
  - Why don't YOU call out the GOP?  BuelahWitch   Jul-11-11 09:51 PM   #122 
  - I call out the GOP all the time  VeryConfused   Jul-12-11 10:31 AM   #186 
  - You arent just confused. You are trying to start a liberal vs. whatever the hell you are, fight. nm  rhett o rick   Jul-11-11 11:05 PM   #129 
  - What makes you assume that a socalled dem that picks  dameocrat67   Jul-11-11 11:33 PM   #133 
  - Everything he's done since then  lark   Jul-12-11 11:35 AM   #203 
  - You want our votes?  girl gone mad   Jul-12-11 01:03 AM   #142 
  - hmm...  chervilant   Jul-12-11 02:53 AM   #148 
  - You are "very confused"..............  Enthusiast   Jul-12-11 05:30 AM   #159 
  - so you do believe the election was stolen,  iamthebandfanman   Jul-12-11 09:47 AM   #178 
  - If the Nader voters had voted for Gore, Bush would have  VeryConfused   Jul-12-11 10:32 AM   #187 
  - I disagree with you.........  BlueJac   Jul-12-11 12:21 PM   #212 
  - Your name is appropriate  FiveGoodMen   Jul-12-11 12:41 PM   #215 
  - BS argument  kenfrequed   Jul-12-11 01:52 PM   #220 
  - And Obama has nominated pretty much all moderates to the courts, ZERO liberals  Hawaii Hiker   Jul-11-11 10:18 PM   #126 
  - What difference would that even make?  MNBrewer   Jul-11-11 01:47 PM   #47 
  - If you read Du for any length of time you would know that MF is about issues  Marrah_G   Jul-11-11 10:32 PM   #127 
  - The Republican base is seniors and not all of them are rich.  JDPriestly   Jul-12-11 12:50 AM   #136 
  - Cracked Mag on Why is gay marriage such an important issue right now?"  WillYourVoteBCounted   Jul-12-11 12:51 AM   #137 
  - LOL  Enthusiast   Jul-12-11 05:29 AM   #158 
  - "The poor get health insurance" lol n/t  AlabamaLibrul   Jul-12-11 05:37 AM   #161 
  - Yes, make sure he/she signs the party loyalty papers.  Dept of Beer   Jul-12-11 09:26 AM   #176 
  - Dems controlling "all 3 branches?"  Bobbie Jo   Jul-11-11 02:09 PM   #56 
  - We did. Obama had the House and the Senate of his own party for two years.  madfloridian   Jul-11-11 02:17 PM   #59 
     - Actually they controlled the legislative and executive. The 3rd branch would be the judicial. I know  Guy Whitey Corngood   Jul-11-11 02:37 PM   #62 
     - Just to clarify....  Bobbie Jo   Jul-11-11 02:38 PM   #63 
     - And they did not change the tax code.  JDPriestly   Jul-12-11 12:52 AM   #138 
  - Don't you mean..  butterfly77   Jul-11-11 02:35 PM   #61 
  - Control of the senate was held by the minority republicans  julian09   Jul-11-11 07:37 PM   #112 
  - If they had felt voter pressure, the Demconservatives would  JDPriestly   Jul-12-11 12:57 AM   #139 
  - We all know that Blue Dog Dems sabotaged the Senate  MadMaddie   Jul-11-11 09:09 PM   #116 
  - Your name is very appropriate. welcome to DU.  kickysnana   Jul-11-11 12:56 PM   #9 
  - I don't accept that excuse. The GOP is doing horrible things yet  VeryConfused   Jul-11-11 12:58 PM   #12 
     - You believe the GOP is given a free pass on DU?  Dappleganger   Jul-11-11 01:13 PM   #27 
     - Maybe you should check out the greatest page once in awhile  VeryConfused   Jul-11-11 01:15 PM   #32 
        - Deleted message  Name removed   Jul-11-11 01:17 PM   #37 
        - Are you on crack?  Nay   Jul-12-11 05:44 AM   #162 
     - you are more than very confused.  spanone   Jul-11-11 03:23 PM   #68 
     - So do you hate liberals or all of DU? Make up your mind. nm  rhett o rick   Jul-11-11 11:07 PM   #130 
     - Very Confused, you have only been here for a few months.  JDPriestly   Jul-12-11 01:02 AM   #141 
     - OIC...  chervilant   Jul-12-11 03:05 AM   #149 
     - A free pass?  Enthusiast   Jul-12-11 05:36 AM   #160 
  - I think you overstate the significance of a poster on DU.  tekisui   Jul-11-11 12:56 PM   #10 
  - Yes it is very helpful to them. It's certainly welcome news to them  VeryConfused   Jul-11-11 12:59 PM   #14 
     - Criticizing bad policy is not "tearing down elected Democrats".  tekisui   Jul-11-11 01:05 PM   #20 
     - How is it not tearing them down?  VeryConfused   Jul-11-11 01:06 PM   #21 
        - You are indeed, very confused.  Dappleganger   Jul-11-11 01:12 PM   #24 
        - Yes by liberals tearing down Democrats  VeryConfused   Jul-11-11 01:12 PM   #25 
           - Democrats who are pushing republican agendas.  Dappleganger   Jul-11-11 01:14 PM   #29 
              - Deleted sub-thread  Name removed   Jul-11-11 01:16 PM   #34 
        - Madfloridian criticizes bad policy from the left, from the position  tekisui   Jul-11-11 01:34 PM   #44 
           - Exactly what part of the speech was bad policy?  VeryConfused   Jul-11-11 01:42 PM   #46 
              - Proving you agree with Repug policies & talking points  lark   Jul-12-11 11:46 AM   #205 
              - The part about including Social Security.  plantwomyn   Jul-12-11 12:14 PM   #211 
     - The only democrats she is criticizing are those who are tearing down long-held democratic  Dappleganger   Jul-11-11 01:11 PM   #23 
     - That's not the case. It does make a nice sounding excuse though  VeryConfused   Jul-11-11 01:13 PM   #26 
        - Deleted message  Name removed   Jul-11-11 01:15 PM   #30 
        - Deleted message  Name removed   Jul-11-11 01:16 PM   #33 
        - Deleted message  Name removed   Jul-11-11 01:16 PM   #35 
           - maybe someday you will be as upset  dana_b   Jul-11-11 01:25 PM   #41 
              - Maybe someday when the Dems are actually worse than the GOP  VeryConfused   Jul-11-11 01:30 PM   #42 
                 - I've got one right here in my district who is worse...  Flubadubya   Jul-11-11 01:56 PM   #51 
                 - And we've got a Democratic Senator in Florida, who's indistinguisable from a Repuke.  Fuddnik   Jul-11-11 04:16 PM   #82 
                 - I've noticed that Mike Ross often votes with the R's  Art_from_Ark   Jul-11-11 09:48 PM   #121 
                 - When Democrats frogmarch rightward, they are worse than the GOP  Hand_With_Eyes   Jul-12-11 07:57 AM   #172 
                 - Ben Nelson in Nebraska is the epitome of a DINO. n/t  SusanaMontana41   Jul-12-11 09:26 PM   #227 
        - Deleted message  Name removed   Jul-11-11 01:15 PM   #31 
     - Nobody forgot a goddamned thing!  BulletproofLandshark   Jul-11-11 06:45 PM   #110 
     - WTF?  lark   Jul-12-11 11:43 AM   #204 
  - No one expects better from the GOP  Aerows   Jul-11-11 12:57 PM   #11 
  - Lip service isn't any better  VeryConfused   Jul-11-11 01:00 PM   #15 
     - So what's stopping you...  ljm2002   Jul-11-11 03:59 PM   #75 
     - Sometimes we focus on the enablers who are taking over our party.  Fuddnik   Jul-11-11 04:19 PM   #83 
     - Well, now,  chervilant   Jul-12-11 03:11 AM   #151 
  - all the raw partisanship is part of our problem in this country....  mike_c   Jul-11-11 01:00 PM   #16 
  - I think the problem is the ideologues on both sides  VeryConfused   Jul-11-11 01:02 PM   #19 
     - What is the Democratic ideology  Hand_With_Eyes   Jul-12-11 07:58 AM   #173 
  - They are everywhere--just read her journal.  Dappleganger   Jul-11-11 01:09 PM   #22 
  - I judge things on cold hard facts  VeryConfused   Jul-11-11 01:14 PM   #28 
     - Deleted message  Name removed   Jul-11-11 01:19 PM   #38 
     - the cold hard facts are that you know very little about d.u.  spanone   Jul-11-11 03:31 PM   #72 
        - And,  chervilant   Jul-12-11 11:50 PM   #228 
  - The GOP is and always has been the enemy of SS. That  sabrina 1   Jul-11-11 02:00 PM   #52 
  - You are very confused, aren't you?  Fuddnik   Jul-11-11 04:08 PM   #78 
  - So you are saying Obama = GOP?  Logical   Jul-11-11 06:26 PM   #105 
  - We ALL hold the GOP accountable. So why collaborate with them?  Mimosa   Jul-11-11 06:37 PM   #109 
  - It wasn't the Republicans calling Social Security a sacred cow. Obama is supposed to be defeining  pam4water   Jul-11-11 11:47 PM   #135 
  - hmm...  chervilant   Jul-12-11 02:51 AM   #147 
  - Why not start your own thread  pecwae   Jul-12-11 10:47 AM   #191 
  - Great point. I'm sick of all the "More Democrat than thou" BS around here.  pam4water   Jul-12-11 11:48 AM   #206 
  - Buy a star and do your own search. There's no excuse for sloth.  Ignis   Jul-12-11 12:43 PM   #216 
  - Do you have a quote on the specifics surrounding SS and Medicare?  mzmolly   Jul-11-11 12:53 PM   #3 
  - Look up the transcript mzmolly. It will be up soon.  madfloridian   Jul-11-11 12:54 PM   #5 
     - Will do.  mzmolly   Jul-11-11 01:01 PM   #18 
  - Politicians need to sign a pledge  pscot   Jul-11-11 12:55 PM   #6 
  - Trusting politicians is akin to trusting guys selling Rolex's in alleys.  Tierra_y_Libertad   Jul-11-11 12:55 PM   #7 
  - I agree..  madfloridian   Jul-11-11 01:17 PM   #36 
     - In a democracy we aren't supposed to "trust" the people we hire to do a job.  Tierra_y_Libertad   Jul-11-11 01:23 PM   #40 
  - I'm certainly not going to take the word of a blogger over my  Fire1   Jul-11-11 01:32 PM   #43 
  - ? The blogger I quoted was years ago.  madfloridian   Jul-11-11 01:49 PM   #49 
     - I don't believe that and I hope he can extend payroll tax cuts.  Fire1   Jul-11-11 02:31 PM   #60 
        - I'm sorry. I am no good at all with talking points. Bottom line:  madfloridian   Jul-11-11 02:57 PM   #64 
        - Mad, those are not "talking points." I'm repeating exactly  Fire1   Jul-11-11 03:10 PM   #65 
        - How have you redefined "trim benefits"?  TheKentuckian   Jul-11-11 03:20 PM   #66 
        - You heard something I didn't hear and I've listened to the  Fire1   Jul-11-11 03:24 PM   #69 
        - Of course it is sustainable. We really disagree on that.  madfloridian   Jul-11-11 03:23 PM   #67 
        - All baby boomers have known for years ss was going to be  Fire1   Jul-11-11 03:27 PM   #70 
           - That is exactly why I included the 1994 stuff on Cowan.  madfloridian   Jul-11-11 04:28 PM   #86 
           - Mad, WE won't be affected. The boomers WILL get theirs!!  Fire1   Jul-11-11 04:32 PM   #88 
              - Read this NPR article. He is already endangering us and the future boomers.  madfloridian   Jul-11-11 05:09 PM   #90 
              - You mean those from 1960-64.  Fire1   Jul-11-11 05:26 PM   #91 
                 - Not what I heard.  madfloridian   Jul-11-11 05:43 PM   #94 
                 - That's certainly good news for us. By 2036 I'll either be gone  Fire1   Jul-11-11 05:47 PM   #97 
                 - SS does not run OUT of money,,,  roxiejules   Jul-11-11 09:24 PM   #118 
                 - 77% is what is predicted. n/t  Fire1   Jul-12-11 11:15 AM   #197 
                 - Disaster Capitalism  chervilant   Jul-13-11 12:05 AM   #231 
                 - They will not run out of money if they tax all income and end  JDPriestly   Jul-12-11 01:15 AM   #145 
                 - It is sustainable.  Enthusiast   Jul-12-11 06:00 AM   #166 
                 - Not when Washington keeps investing trust fund money and  Fire1   Jul-12-11 10:20 AM   #180 
                 - what nonsense. There ARE alternatives to raising age of eligibility -  bread_and_roses   Jul-12-11 06:51 AM   #169 
                    - It may be blah blah but it's a fact of life. Few people can afford  Fire1   Jul-12-11 11:20 AM   #200 
                       - False choice. We don't need to do either.  bread_and_roses   Jul-12-11 12:33 PM   #214 
                          - I said, "few people can afford to live on ss alone." Retirement  Fire1   Jul-12-11 01:02 PM   #217 
              - Our children and grandchildren are going to be more worried  JDPriestly   Jul-12-11 01:14 AM   #144 
           - The generational bump has been known for years and was dealt  JDPriestly   Jul-12-11 01:12 AM   #143 
           - hmph!  chervilant   Jul-12-11 03:18 AM   #152 
           - Hmph!  chervilant   Jul-12-11 03:24 AM   #153 
           - So,  chervilant   Jul-12-11 03:39 AM   #155 
           - Why do you take a Republican position on SS?  Enthusiast   Jul-12-11 05:57 AM   #165 
              - Now you know on a message board nobody cares how  Fire1   Jul-12-11 11:57 AM   #208 
        - You couldn't be more incorrect  Enthusiast   Jul-12-11 05:51 AM   #163 
        - Sigh...  chervilant   Jul-12-11 11:57 PM   #229 
        - Here's a great resource  chervilant   Jul-13-11 12:14 AM   #232 
        - Extending payroll tax cuts  Enthusiast   Jul-12-11 05:55 AM   #164 
           - Won't be voting,  chervilant   Jul-13-11 01:10 AM   #233 
  - Deleted message  Name removed   Jul-11-11 01:48 PM   #48 
  - Great work Mad, Thanks  Tom Rinaldo   Jul-11-11 01:55 PM   #50 
  - Thank you, Tom.  madfloridian   Jul-11-11 02:14 PM   #58 
  - Very well done. Articulates pretty much everything I'm feeling right now.  jtown1123   Jul-11-11 02:01 PM   #53 
  - Nice post. I'm done with both parties. They are BOTH BOUGHT AND PAID FOR.  dissidentboomer   Jul-11-11 02:06 PM   #54 
  - I agree completely. nt  TBF   Jul-11-11 05:32 PM   #92 
  - Great post. K&R nt  woo me with science   Jul-11-11 02:07 PM   #55 
  - recommend.  Starry Messenger   Jul-11-11 02:13 PM   #57 
  - I wish that I could understand all of this, but I don't.  tnlefty   Jul-11-11 03:28 PM   #71 
  - Bravo---your point about what they are putting the elderly through  DemocracyInaction   Jul-11-11 03:32 PM   #73 
  - I don't they have a clue about the stress, and I don't think they care.  madfloridian   Jul-11-11 05:44 PM   #95 
  - Well, now...  chervilant   Jul-12-11 11:50 AM   #207 
  - Right on, Mad Flo  Blue_In_AK   Jul-11-11 03:58 PM   #74 
  - I love your Northern Vision pictures. I look at them often.  madfloridian   Jul-11-11 04:32 PM   #87 
     - Oh, thank you so much.  Blue_In_AK   Jul-11-11 04:46 PM   #89 
        - I will do that.  madfloridian   Jul-12-11 07:47 PM   #226 
  - Been politial since I was 13 and Ronald Wilson Reagan was in office.  Rex   Jul-11-11 04:10 PM   #80 
  - I believe it is important to understand that this proposal is Obama's idea. He did not need to make  Jefferson23   Jul-11-11 04:15 PM   #81 
  - Which proposal? n/t  Fire1   Jul-11-11 05:43 PM   #93 
     - Social Security.  Jefferson23   Jul-11-11 05:56 PM   #99 
        - He could kick the can down the road but like I've said,  Fire1   Jul-11-11 06:05 PM   #101 
           - The concern is that he is even suggesting it. It is a bad and unnecessary idea. n/t  Jefferson23   Jul-11-11 06:10 PM   #103 
              - It's not unnecessay. Due to the boomer generation it is not  Fire1   Jul-11-11 06:33 PM   #106 
                 - Top 5 Social Security Myths  Jefferson23   Jul-11-11 06:53 PM   #111 
                 - You are utterly wrong.  JDPriestly   Jul-12-11 01:25 AM   #146 
                 - Why do you keep repeating a Republican lie?  Enthusiast   Jul-12-11 06:12 AM   #167 
                    - It would be sustainable if the fed would stop investing these  Fire1   Jul-12-11 10:41 AM   #189 
  - Setting a new record...  madfloridian   Jul-11-11 05:47 PM   #96 
  - Cause it's not true, yet. n/t  Fire1   Jul-11-11 05:49 PM   #98 
  - Yes, it is quite true.  madfloridian   Jul-11-11 09:09 PM   #117 
     - NYT: Barack Obama wants a right-leaning deficit deal  roxiejules   Jul-11-11 11:19 PM   #131 
     - Thanks for the article.  madfloridian   Jul-12-11 11:17 AM   #198 
     - Looks like  chervilant   Jul-12-11 12:01 PM   #209 
        - I just don't have knee-jerk reactions. n/t  Fire1   Jul-12-11 02:07 PM   #222 
           - Bwahahaha!  chervilant   Jul-12-11 02:09 PM   #224 
              - I know what you mean. n/t  Fire1   Jul-12-11 02:19 PM   #225 
  - It is similar to Obama's education policy approach, damage the unions by vilifying the teachers.  Jefferson23   Jul-11-11 06:07 PM   #102 
     - Yes, it is.  madfloridian   Jul-11-11 06:17 PM   #104 
        - I read your journal on education mads for the details and I along with  Jefferson23   Jul-11-11 06:35 PM   #108 
  - Good, sad post,  Bluenorthwest   Jul-11-11 06:01 PM   #100 
  - KandR  Dystopian   Jul-11-11 08:19 PM   #113 
  - Excellent Post  pmorlan1   Jul-11-11 08:44 PM   #114 
  - These guys say provocative things to get the spotlight on themselves  Samantha   Jul-11-11 08:59 PM   #115 
  - This is when paying attention really sucks  Blecht   Jul-11-11 09:29 PM   #119 
  - NO DUH!!!  chervilant   Jul-12-11 03:43 AM   #156 
  - This.  TacticalPeek   Jul-11-11 09:47 PM   #120 
  - The entire agenda of FDR is for sale on Obama's table. Whatcha' got?  Major Hogwash   Jul-11-11 10:02 PM   #123 
  - It is quite clear from this post that Mr. Cowan is to be hated deeply and intensely.  tcaudilllg   Jul-11-11 10:09 PM   #124 
  - REC. The Democrat leaders know EXACTLY what they are doing. They are doing  bertman   Jul-11-11 10:15 PM   #125 
  - Is a blue dog worse than a Republican? Is a traitor worse than an enemy combatant?  saras   Jul-11-11 10:35 PM   #128 
  - The President  ProSense   Jul-11-11 11:23 PM   #132 
  - Sounds like he tossed it in for good measure.  madfloridian   Jul-11-11 11:47 PM   #134 
  - I looked at this speech in light of who he was talking to...  rosesaylavee   Jul-12-11 07:49 AM   #170 
  - hmm...  chervilant   Jul-12-11 03:49 AM   #157 
  - "There is no excuse for the stress our own party is putting on seniors by including benefit cuts in  midnight   Jul-12-11 12:58 AM   #140 
  - K&R - and *huge* appreciation and respect for your efforts  inna   Jul-12-11 03:11 AM   #150 
  - Vote for Obama cause he wont cut your meager Social Security and health care as much as a RepubliCON  fasttense   Jul-12-11 03:36 AM   #154 
  - Yes, Obama's politics of hope have proven themselves a sham.  avaistheone1   Jul-12-11 10:19 AM   #179 
  - "Greedy Geezers" demanding that they get paid back for 40 years  Warren Stupidity   Jul-12-11 06:13 AM   #168 
  - You think THAT'S unfair? What about those who died before  Fire1   Jul-12-11 10:22 AM   #181 
     - That was part of the agreement.  Warren Stupidity   Jul-12-11 11:34 AM   #202 
        - Some had dependent children some didn't and those people  Fire1   Jul-12-11 12:07 PM   #210 
           - SS is a pension that terminates on your death with limited survivor benefits  Warren Stupidity   Jul-12-11 01:31 PM   #218 
              - Nobody said it was a "savings account" nor did I imply that it  Fire1   Jul-12-11 01:47 PM   #219 
  - great post  OwnedByFerrets   Jul-12-11 07:54 AM   #171 
  - Wouldn't it be nice if elected Democrats  TransitJohn   Jul-12-11 08:24 AM   #174 
  - They count On An Easily Manipulated Population  colsohlibgal   Jul-12-11 08:59 AM   #175 
  - Trouble is there is no party in which people want Social Security messed with.  madfloridian   Jul-12-11 09:35 AM   #177 
  - Yeah,  chervilant   Jul-13-11 12:01 AM   #230 
  - Pure psycopaths!  Emelina   Jul-12-11 12:32 PM   #213 
 

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