Still a Democrat
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Fri Jan-07-11 08:45 AM
Response to Reply #143 |
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"He did not commit a crime because he has a legal obligation to expose illegalities, and many of the cables do just that and confirm that the U.S is routinely engaged in war crimes, seizures of people and other operations abroad that violate international law."
Some of the cables indicating crime or wrongdoing does not excuse all of them. We agree he can be defended as a whistleblower, but only for those that were truly whistleblowing.
"As for reporting this up the line, this would have been ridiculous, since it was the people up the line who were parties to these crimes."
His direct report was involved in the crimes? If he had reported it and nothing was done, it would strengthen the arguement he was a whistleblower when he went elsewhere.
"And I think he would have been criticized by the anti-transparency brigade had he been selective in what cables he released ("he's hiding the true story") and that Wikileaks was the perfect organization to send the document to, since they have a reputation of being quite responsible in what and how they release documents."
Sorry, but if he released cables he had no reason to just to please the "anti-transparency brigade" he ought to be convicted of extreme stupidity.
Did he have some good intentions? Probably. But I think he was immature, got carried away, and recklessly crossed lines you can't.
|
| -President Obama: No Whistleblowing on My Watch |
Better Believe It |
Jan-06-11 12:03 PM |
#0 |
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Once again: What would we ALL be saying if it was Bush doing this? |
FiveGoodMen |
Jan-06-11 12:20 PM |
#1 |
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That he has a lot to hide and will be held accountable for it when it gets |
The Backlash Cometh |
Jan-06-11 12:41 PM |
#9 |
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The same damn thing I am saying when Obama does it. This is |
jwirr |
Jan-06-11 01:00 PM |
#18 |
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Deleted message |
Name removed |
Jan-06-11 01:28 PM |
#35 |
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We should realize that the govt. is fascist |
molly77 |
Jan-06-11 05:03 PM |
#49 |
  -
Molly has it, corporate Fascist serving the corporate interest |
sarcasmo |
Jan-06-11 08:16 PM |
#91 |
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it goes back further than 2000... |
awoke_in_2003 |
Jan-06-11 08:48 PM |
#101 |
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That is one of the differences |
dotymed |
Jan-07-11 06:06 AM |
#130 |
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Why would we be saying anything different? Wrong is wrong, no matter whether the guy doing it |
1monster |
Jan-06-11 06:59 PM |
#73 |
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"based only on party affiliation"... |
awoke_in_2003 |
Jan-06-11 08:50 PM |
#104 |
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New Democrat? I was a Bobby Kennedy supporter when I was twelve. BUT, I am not a Democrats-are- |
1monster |
Jan-06-11 10:56 PM |
#115 |
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I hoped my smiley face... |
awoke_in_2003 |
Jan-06-11 11:25 PM |
#116 |
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Okay. I understand, but suggest you use the :sarcasm: gif so I get it next time... |
1monster |
Jan-07-11 01:27 PM |
#166 |
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Very well said...the only thing I'd add to that |
Raksha |
Jan-07-11 01:42 AM |
#123 |
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Agreed. |
1monster |
Jan-07-11 01:28 PM |
#167 |
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self delete- |
awoke_in_2003 |
Jan-07-11 10:36 AM |
#154 |
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you know the answer to that... |
awoke_in_2003 |
Jan-06-11 08:46 PM |
#100 |
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The core problem is, Bush and Obama are behaving the same. |
AtheistCrusader |
Jan-07-11 11:52 AM |
#161 |
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"It's 13 dimensional chess hope and change to bring transparency" or something like that. |
Edweird |
Jan-06-11 12:21 PM |
#2 |
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LOL |
FourScore |
Jan-06-11 09:26 PM |
#111 |
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Nice... |
muffin1 |
Jan-06-11 12:24 PM |
#3 |
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He should totally use this defense at his court-martial..... |
msanthrope |
Jan-06-11 12:30 PM |
#4 |
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Details, details... |
SidDithers |
Jan-06-11 12:35 PM |
#5 |
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I know--how dare I actually point out that Manning had recourse-- |
msanthrope |
Jan-06-11 12:56 PM |
#13 |
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Except he didn't really. |
superduperfarleft |
Jan-06-11 01:02 PM |
#24 |
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Yes--he did have legal recourse. He chose to eschew it. |
msanthrope |
Jan-06-11 01:16 PM |
#31 |
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Deleted message |
Name removed |
Jan-06-11 01:23 PM |
#34 |
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What are those procedures? |
cleanhippie |
Jan-06-11 05:55 PM |
#62 |
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The point is that this alleged whistle blower got the truth out |
hulka38 |
Jan-06-11 09:06 PM |
#109 |
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No, he didn't. He reported the war crimes he witnessed to his superiors. |
sabrina 1 |
Jan-07-11 11:08 AM |
#157 |
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You need to practice what you teach. If Manning is the one who handed over the |
1monster |
Jan-06-11 07:02 PM |
#74 |
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Details, details... |
Raster |
Jan-06-11 11:28 PM |
#117 |
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except... |
druidity33 |
Jan-06-11 08:22 PM |
#92 |
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The book deal occured in December. |
go west young man |
Jan-06-11 08:49 PM |
#103 |
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Manning can see into the future? |
atreides1 |
Jan-07-11 08:56 AM |
#153 |
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Well, if you had brought up facts it would be fine. Manning |
sabrina 1 |
Jan-07-11 11:04 AM |
#156 |
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What does Assange's book deal have to do with anything? |
superduperfarleft |
Jan-06-11 12:40 PM |
#8 |
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As a private, (because of demotion, post-assaulting another soldier) he had recourse |
msanthrope |
Jan-06-11 12:54 PM |
#12 |
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You didn't answer my first question, just added more of the same that prompted my question in the |
superduperfarleft |
Jan-06-11 12:58 PM |
#16 |
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I did answer your question. Pvt Manning had legal recourse that he chose |
msanthrope |
Jan-06-11 01:11 PM |
#29 |
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He did choose extra-legal means, which is generally what a "whistleblower" does. |
superduperfarleft |
Jan-06-11 01:15 PM |
#30 |
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Right. Just like Daniel Elsberg did. Does the military justice system permit a GI |
Better Believe It |
Jan-06-11 05:49 PM |
#57 |
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Ho can you be so absolutely certain about everything? |
Bragi |
Jan-06-11 07:52 PM |
#82 |
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Would you be defending the government's actions |
Jakes Progress |
Jan-06-11 08:04 PM |
#86 |
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You certainly have chosen the right handle for yourself. |
go west young man |
Jan-06-11 08:53 PM |
#105 |
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I'm thinking that too. |
midnight |
Jan-06-11 05:44 PM |
#56 |
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"I hope Wikileaks gets around to donating to his defense fund" Really? Have you donated or .... |
Better Believe It |
Jan-06-11 05:51 PM |
#59 |
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While he most likely deserves... |
Cid_B |
Jan-06-11 06:40 PM |
#68 |
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Why is anyone here opposed to exposing lies? |
Bragi |
Jan-07-11 07:40 AM |
#138 |
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It's the classic "My Country: Extreme Right and Wrong" |
KansDem |
Jan-07-11 12:32 PM |
#163 |
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He witnessed war crimes and reported them to his superiors. |
sabrina 1 |
Jan-07-11 11:58 AM |
#162 |
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He did report the crimes to his chain of command. |
sabrina 1 |
Jan-07-11 11:12 AM |
#159 |
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"he had recourse through his chain of command" |
newspeak |
Jan-07-11 11:25 AM |
#160 |
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See my posts above, he did report the crimes, he was, as you |
sabrina 1 |
Jan-07-11 12:52 PM |
#164 |
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Deleted message |
Name removed |
Jan-06-11 01:05 PM |
#26 |
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If Manning released the troops helicopter video do you think he should be shot for treason? |
Better Believe It |
Jan-06-11 12:57 PM |
#14 |
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I think he should face court-martial for his actions, with charges and |
msanthrope |
Jan-06-11 01:09 PM |
#28 |
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And if the JAG decides that Manning should be executed for "treason" you'd have no problem with that |
Better Believe It |
Jan-06-11 05:53 PM |
#61 |
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And what penalties does our Government get then for their illegal actions? |
glinda |
Jan-06-11 08:41 PM |
#97 |
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Deleted message |
Name removed |
Jan-06-11 09:20 PM |
#110 |
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And why wouldn't your FIRST consideration be to deal with the war crimes exposed in that video? |
defendandprotect |
Jan-07-11 06:37 AM |
#134 |
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He isn't being charged with treason. |
Statistical |
Jan-07-11 08:19 AM |
#147 |
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Um, he didn't hand the material over to a guy with a book deal. n/t |
EFerrari |
Jan-06-11 12:58 PM |
#15 |
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And even if he did, it's completely irrelevant. |
superduperfarleft |
Jan-06-11 12:59 PM |
#17 |
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Yep. It's not an argument, it's just a smear. n/t |
EFerrari |
Jan-06-11 01:00 PM |
#19 |
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Pretty much. And I have yet to get an answer as to why people think it constitutes an argument. n/t |
superduperfarleft |
Jan-06-11 01:03 PM |
#25 |
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Manning was and is an immature KID. |
Mimosa |
Jan-06-11 01:01 PM |
#21 |
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I think that's a very interesting point.... |
msanthrope |
Jan-06-11 01:20 PM |
#32 |
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Why do you hate him? Do you wish the helicopter video had never come to light? (nt) |
whatchamacallit |
Jan-06-11 04:44 PM |
#47 |
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Would someone more "mature" NOT have taken action to correct illegal behavior? |
cleanhippie |
Jan-06-11 05:57 PM |
#63 |
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No they would not have. |
panzerfaust |
Jan-06-11 06:58 PM |
#72 |
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No, that is not even close. |
cleanhippie |
Jan-06-11 09:56 PM |
#114 |
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A younger person tends to be idealistic and less likely to 'look out for himself' |
Mimosa |
Jan-07-11 12:20 AM |
#120 |
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I understand that hundreds of people had access to the same information. |
glinda |
Jan-06-11 08:42 PM |
#98 |
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Perhaps he's not as trusting of the Establishment ... |
GeorgeGist |
Jan-06-11 03:51 PM |
#36 |
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WTF does that have to do with anything? |
whatchamacallit |
Jan-06-11 04:40 PM |
#45 |
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First of all the book deal was made after the handing of the docs. |
walldude |
Jan-06-11 05:28 PM |
#53 |
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What, you don't have a direct line into the World Court? |
superduperfarleft |
Jan-06-11 05:59 PM |
#64 |
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Walldude, you sound like somebody who's been following the game since Vietnam. |
Mimosa |
Jan-07-11 12:24 AM |
#121 |
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He should use 100,000 dead Iraqi's for a war-for-profit as his defense, as well as |
grahamhgreen |
Jan-06-11 07:46 PM |
#80 |
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Assange did not have a book deal when Manning provided |
JDPriestly |
Jan-06-11 07:56 PM |
#83 |
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he hasn't been indicted |
Vattel |
Jan-06-11 07:57 PM |
#84 |
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There is a difference between being |
obxhead |
Jan-06-11 11:54 PM |
#119 |
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He can also explain how/why he ended up releasing hundreds of thousands of unrelated docs. n/t |
Statistical |
Jan-07-11 08:16 AM |
#145 |
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Is the video of the helicopter attack the only thing Manning is alleged to have leaked?... |
SidDithers |
Jan-06-11 12:37 PM |
#6 |
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Allegedly |
jberryhill |
Jan-06-11 12:43 PM |
#10 |
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Which have also yielded illegal activity even in the small number |
EFerrari |
Jan-06-11 01:02 PM |
#23 |
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But that's the shotgun approach... |
SidDithers |
Jan-06-11 04:03 PM |
#37 |
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He needed help sifting... |
druidity33 |
Jan-06-11 08:34 PM |
#96 |
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You really want his ass |
whatchamacallit |
Jan-06-11 04:45 PM |
#48 |
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Truthfully, I couldn't care less about Manning... |
SidDithers |
Jan-07-11 12:38 AM |
#122 |
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Obama just made himself "the Man." |
The Backlash Cometh |
Jan-06-11 12:39 PM |
#7 |
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What it reveals about his thinking is not in agreement with my values. |
glinda |
Jan-06-11 08:45 PM |
#99 |
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Well, "Transparency" made a real nice campaign slogan..like "change" and "hope". |
Tierra_y_Libertad |
Jan-06-11 12:47 PM |
#11 |
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And my personal favorite "restoring the rule of law" |
dflprincess |
Jan-06-11 08:32 PM |
#93 |
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Unfortunately, my cynicism about Obama has been validated |
deutsey |
Jan-07-11 07:24 AM |
#136 |
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"America's ongoing war on everything" . . . . . |
Stinky The Clown |
Jan-06-11 01:00 PM |
#20 |
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It's War Theater. The purpose isn't actually to wage war, |
EFerrari |
Jan-06-11 01:07 PM |
#27 |
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Fool, Traitor, Heretic! |
The Green Manalishi |
Jan-07-11 08:53 AM |
#151 |
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This is unconscionable. Rec'd with sadness. n/t |
Catherina |
Jan-06-11 01:01 PM |
#22 |
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I remember seeing that video a long time ago. Years ago. On the tv news |
lunatica |
Jan-06-11 01:22 PM |
#33 |
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Bradley is as much a hero as Cheney is. |
Ikonoklast |
Jan-06-11 04:16 PM |
#38 |
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Really? What was the purely political motive behind the wikileaks release? n/t |
superduperfarleft |
Jan-06-11 04:17 PM |
#39 |
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Ask Manning. |
Ikonoklast |
Jan-06-11 04:29 PM |
#43 |
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So why did you state that they were similar as if you know for a fact that was the case? n/t |
superduperfarleft |
Jan-06-11 04:36 PM |
#44 |
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How 'bout a good old murder coverup? |
whatchamacallit |
Jan-06-11 05:15 PM |
#50 |
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Outing a CIA agent who stands in the way of your war based on lies.. |
girl gone mad |
Jan-06-11 04:24 PM |
#40 |
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Do all 250,000 cables contain evidence of mass crime and corruption?...nt |
SidDithers |
Jan-06-11 04:26 PM |
#41 |
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You don't know? |
walldude |
Jan-06-11 05:32 PM |
#54 |
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I liked you because I felt you appreciated dark humor and satire when you saw it. |
Forkboy |
Jan-06-11 07:08 PM |
#76 |
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Did every single page of the Pentagon Papers contain the same? |
girl gone mad |
Jan-06-11 08:06 PM |
#88 |
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But the laws broken are the same. Your opinion of the motives matters not. |
Ikonoklast |
Jan-06-11 04:28 PM |
#42 |
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So is someone who steals bread to feed his family the same as a guy who shoplifts it even though he |
superduperfarleft |
Jan-06-11 04:42 PM |
#46 |
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Bradley is as big a criminal as Cheney. |
AlbertCat |
Jan-06-11 05:53 PM |
#60 |
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dumb da dumb dumb |
anamandujano |
Jan-06-11 06:51 PM |
#70 |
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True..... |
midnight |
Jan-06-11 06:35 PM |
#67 |
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They're the same people.... Well, except for motive, intent, results, and the fact that one was a |
20score |
Jan-06-11 08:33 PM |
#94 |
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Many words in your message do not mean what you think they do, "hero" and "same" among them. |
liberation |
Jan-07-11 03:35 AM |
#125 |
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IF Pfc Manning reported this to a military official, then he should be ok. If he gave it to |
ncteechur |
Jan-06-11 05:22 PM |
#51 |
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IF Pfc Manning reported this to a military official, then he acted legally. |
superduperfarleft |
Jan-06-11 05:24 PM |
#52 |
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"pfc. manning is not a private citizen and must follow military protocol." Not in this case! |
Better Believe It |
Jan-06-11 09:01 PM |
#108 |
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No Whistleblowing on My Watch |
AlbertCat |
Jan-06-11 05:40 PM |
#55 |
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I can't imagine being proud of that statement he made. It tells a lot. |
glinda |
Jan-06-11 08:48 PM |
#102 |
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His fans should hope his lawyers come up with something better than this |
treestar |
Jan-06-11 05:49 PM |
#58 |
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Do you have any opinions not twisted around support for the president? |
whatchamacallit |
Jan-06-11 06:02 PM |
#66 |
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Wait a second! There is Whistleblower Protection for all federally financed projects! |
JanMichael |
Jan-06-11 06:02 PM |
#65 |
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Better Believe it, you shuld be commended for continuuing to speak |
truth2power |
Jan-06-11 06:49 PM |
#69 |
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+++ I'll second that |
Agony |
Jan-06-11 07:07 PM |
#75 |
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You said it. |
Bluebear |
Jan-08-11 07:51 AM |
#170 |
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K&R - Memo to all haters: |
theaocp |
Jan-06-11 06:55 PM |
#71 |
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not all of the information has been released |
newspeak |
Jan-06-11 07:20 PM |
#77 |
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He's not a whistleblower, it was a crime |
Still a Democrat |
Jan-06-11 07:29 PM |
#78 |
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ALL OF THE DOCUMENTS, together, serve to show a pattern and practice of criminal behavior. |
grahamhgreen |
Jan-06-11 07:47 PM |
#81 |
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And you know each document was necessary? How? n/t |
Still a Democrat |
Jan-07-11 07:41 AM |
#139 |
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Just like any criminal investigation, some evidence will be thrown out. |
grahamhgreen |
Jan-07-11 09:50 PM |
#168 |
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Are you summarizing or mocking the losing position here? /nt |
Bragi |
Jan-06-11 07:58 PM |
#85 |
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Nope. Just joining in the mindlessness. |
Jakes Progress |
Jan-06-11 08:06 PM |
#87 |
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Disagree with anything in my post? n/t |
Still a Democrat |
Jan-07-11 07:40 AM |
#137 |
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Yes, I disagree with you. |
Bragi |
Jan-07-11 08:01 AM |
#143 |
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Okay |
Still a Democrat |
Jan-07-11 08:45 AM |
#149 |
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Fair enough. I don't agree. |
Bragi |
Jan-07-11 08:51 AM |
#150 |
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I'd go along with Manning as Whistleblower IF he had read all 250,000+ documents he turned over to |
cherokeeprogressive |
Jan-06-11 07:41 PM |
#79 |
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It would have taken him years.. |
girl gone mad |
Jan-06-11 08:10 PM |
#90 |
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Yep, and... |
Bragi |
Jan-07-11 07:52 AM |
#141 |
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Don't know how whistle blowing works, do you? |
Jakes Progress |
Jan-07-11 05:51 AM |
#128 |
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Manning is a true hero, unlike the cowards who excuse the crimes. |
Zhade |
Jan-06-11 08:07 PM |
#89 |
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I am done with him now. |
kgnu_fan |
Jan-06-11 08:34 PM |
#95 |
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The UCMJ, the Constitution, the laws of the states and the nation, |
bertman |
Jan-06-11 08:54 PM |
#106 |
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K&R |
DeSwiss |
Jan-06-11 08:57 PM |
#107 |
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And this delayed undeclared war for wealthy resources has to cease. |
RedCloud |
Jan-06-11 09:28 PM |
#112 |
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Legal Question: Has he been indicted? |
Smarmie Doofus |
Jan-06-11 09:33 PM |
#113 |
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The military doesn't have a legal process called an indictment |
Crabby Appleton |
Jan-06-11 11:48 PM |
#118 |
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If I was in Manning's spot, I would've disclosed the government breaking International Law. |
Lucian |
Jan-07-11 02:27 AM |
#124 |
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So Bush like........absolutely sickening |
BlueJac |
Jan-07-11 04:21 AM |
#126 |
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The power of the corporate/military |
Enthusiast |
Jan-07-11 04:39 AM |
#127 |
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manning is not a whistler blower. he was not going after anything specific. he was fishing |
seabeyond |
Jan-07-11 05:56 AM |
#129 |
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And if he'd been highly selective in what he released? |
Bragi |
Jan-07-11 07:45 AM |
#140 |
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if manning saw a crime (not gossip) and tried to get crime addressed and was ignored |
seabeyond |
Jan-07-11 08:13 AM |
#144 |
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No, it's isn't "plain and simple" |
Bragi |
Jan-07-11 08:18 AM |
#146 |
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oh wait, i get it. your plain and simple is plain and simple where as |
seabeyond |
Jan-07-11 08:19 AM |
#148 |
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Where is the quote that was implied in the title? |
VeryConfused |
Jan-07-11 06:32 AM |
#131 |
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War crimes were being committed and covered up ... let's deal wih that reality!! |
defendandprotect |
Jan-07-11 06:34 AM |
#132 |
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That would be too messy and friendships would be damaged. |
russspeakeasy |
Jan-07-11 11:10 AM |
#158 |
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K & R n/t |
Le Taz Hot |
Jan-07-11 06:35 AM |
#133 |
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Deleted message |
Name removed |
Jan-07-11 06:42 AM |
#135 |
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The article is incorrect. Manning has been charged: |
Freddie Stubbs |
Jan-07-11 08:00 AM |
#142 |
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Whistle blowing needs to be protected. nt |
ZombieHorde |
Jan-07-11 08:56 AM |
#152 |
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Yet when he was running for office he declared whistleblowers would be protected... |
ProfessionalLeftist |
Jan-07-11 10:45 AM |
#155 |
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No one should be surprised by this president's response. |
BlueIris |
Jan-07-11 12:56 PM |
#165 |
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Obushma does it again. I sure Obama could get the guy out of solitary if he wanted too. |
pam4water |
Jan-08-11 02:14 AM |
#169 |