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Reply #90: I really don't think it's smart to go above 60% [View All]

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IndyPragmatist Donating Member (556 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-08-11 10:19 AM
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90. I really don't think it's smart to go above 60%
Think about it from the perspective of that person, the motivation for a business owner to hire more workers and increase production is the hope that their personal income will increase from these decisions. If you put to high of a tax rate on someone line this, you are reducing the likelihood that they will hire new workers and increase production. Adding workers is always a risk. The market may change and that employee may not be very useful, you may hire a bad employee, or your personal situation may change and it may be more beneficial to not have that employee on payroll. Since we cannot predict the future, we need to have a tax rate that provides enough incentive to counter the risk incurred by increasing production and employment.

A 95% rate would kill business. While most large businesses are public and owned by thousands of individuals, many mid-sized businesses are owned by a single or small amount of individuals. Many of these people would fall into the $1,000,000 range. If someone is only going to receive 5% of everything earned beyond that, they probably won't care about increasing production and employment unless they are confident that this will equal a massive return (to where 5 cents on the dollar still adds to a lucrative amount).


This is where Economics and Psychology overlap. So much of economics is based on individual decisions and the desire to make money. We want business owners to produce as much and employ as many people as possible. So at what tax rate does that person begin to think that it isn't worth the effort and risk to make more money? I think 95% is well beyond that level. If I made $1mil and I only got 5% of everything beyond that, I wouldn't have a whole lot of motivation to work more to make that. Because of this, I really don't think that you can go beyond 60 or 65%. That seems to me as the point where I would begin to lose motivation to work more.

I also think that everyone should pay some taxes. I know it sounds cold-hearted to want to make someone only making $20k/year to pay taxes, but I think they need to pay something (about 10-15%) just to ensure that they are not distanced from government spending. For many people, if they don't have to pay for something, they are all for it, but if they have to foot part of the bill, they may reconsider. I think this will make people think more about the value of programs and spending, instead of just voting to increase the number of programs that will impact them personally. I think that the fact that they are paying SOME income tax will ensure they vote logically and not out of greed.

So my thought? I would like to see the sales tax increased (placing the tax burden on consumption and not production allows money to "work" and grow at a higher level) to maybe 10%. There is a huge amount of wealth in America that is "old money". These people aren't making any income, but living off of savings and trusts. I know Paris Hilton makes some income (apparently some people are dumb enough to pay her), but she spends much more than she makes because she is living off of the Hilton family fortune. Maybe you could increase the sales tax to 20% on purchases (not including homes and autos) over $10k. This would make people that fall into this group pay some of the tax burden.

Below $30k - 10-15%
Up to $50k - 20%
Up to $75k - 25%
100k - 30%
250k - 40%
500k - 50%
1 mil- 60%
5 mil and beyond -65%

I would also like to see more money shifting from the federal government to state governments. While we may elect Congressmen and the president nationally, federal employees in DC tend to be from DC or the area. By shifting the power a little more to states, you will have elected officials and employees that are more representative of the population that they serve. Instead of having a group of employees from DC providing services for people nationwide.
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  -What should be the tax rate for income of $100,000 per year? kentuck  Jun-07-11 04:02 PM   #0 
  - maybe we need more upper income brackets..like over 1 million  angstlessk   Jun-07-11 04:06 PM   #1 
  - I think all tax rates should revert to what they were before GWB assumed the presidency.  Lasher   Jun-07-11 04:07 PM   #2 
  - I'm with you Lasher,  safeinOhio   Jun-07-11 04:35 PM   #9 
  - I'm having a big problem forgiving Obama for having extended the Bush tax cuts in December.  Lasher   Jun-07-11 07:51 PM   #42 
  - yes!  JAnthony   Jun-07-11 08:12 PM   #50 
  - Doing so would balance the budget in a few years  Avant Guardian   Jun-08-11 10:20 AM   #91 
     - Thanks for the excellent graphics. Do you have a link to your source?  Lasher   Jun-08-11 01:20 PM   #101 
  - Here are some thoughts:  damntexdem   Jun-07-11 04:11 PM   #3 
  - 25% of 100,000 is a lot of that income.  Zoeisright   Jun-07-11 04:17 PM   #4 
  - 30% of my less than $100,000 is a lot of money I have to do without too...  JuniperLea   Jun-07-11 04:24 PM   #6 
  - Not how tax rates work  Spike89   Jun-07-11 05:04 PM   #11 
  - According to this graph, 98.3% make less than $250,000  kentuck   Jun-07-11 05:12 PM   #15 
  - Interest income is taxed EXACTLY as other income  dems_rightnow   Jun-07-11 06:45 PM   #33 
  - Yeah, I was wrong and oversimplified  Spike89   Jun-08-11 02:30 PM   #104 
  - You are confused.  Obamaforthewin   Jun-07-11 08:42 PM   #64 
     - yup, oversimplified and chose the wrong term  Spike89   Jun-08-11 02:32 PM   #105 
  - it should depend on where you live  formernaderite   Jun-07-11 06:49 PM   #35 
  - These are tax thresholds.......as it is with all taxation schedules...  JAnthony   Jun-07-11 08:15 PM   #53 
  - But you only pay the 25% on anything over $25,000  cameozalaznick   Jun-07-11 11:21 PM   #79 
  - and life circumstances  Carolina   Jun-08-11 12:23 PM   #98 
  - Holy crap. 40% on $250K?  FLPanhandle   Jun-07-11 05:08 PM   #13 
     - You're paying 35% now  REP   Jun-07-11 05:37 PM   #20 
     - We pay probably 30% after deductions and all.  FLPanhandle   Jun-07-11 05:46 PM   #21 
        - "$250K isn't rich nowadays."  boppers   Jun-07-11 07:54 PM   #45 
        - The truly rich have more than the rest of us combined nt  FLPanhandle   Jun-07-11 08:19 PM   #56 
           - ROFL  snooper2   Jun-08-11 09:43 AM   #83 
              - *sigh*  FLPanhandle   Jun-08-11 12:14 PM   #95 
                 - I used to beg on the streets. To buy food.  boppers   Jun-09-11 05:14 AM   #118 
                    - It's all relative, isn't it?  kentuck   Jun-09-11 06:01 AM   #119 
        - Baloney. 250k a year is plenty fucking rich. nt  Codeine   Jun-07-11 08:21 PM   #58 
        - Yes, yes it is.  Marrah_G   Jun-08-11 10:18 AM   #88 
           - Wow. Infighting, that's what got us to where we are now.  kick-ass-bob   Jun-08-11 12:18 PM   #96 
     - Why not?  Skink   Jun-07-11 06:27 PM   #28 
     - 250K isn't rich  FLPanhandle   Jun-07-11 06:39 PM   #30 
        - Yes 250k is rich  Marrah_G   Jun-08-11 10:19 AM   #89 
           - no. this is not wealthy.  kick-ass-bob   Jun-08-11 12:20 PM   #97 
     - A net rate of 40% is insane. A net rate between 25% and 30% would  bluestate10   Jun-07-11 08:03 PM   #48 
     - Please see my reply to #4 upthread...  cameozalaznick   Jun-07-11 11:26 PM   #80 
     - even if you DID have to pay 40% you would be left with 150,000  Marrah_G   Jun-08-11 10:17 AM   #87 
  - People that earn more should pay higher marginal tax rates so that  bluestate10   Jun-07-11 04:18 PM   #5 
  - Zero  notesdev   Jun-07-11 04:25 PM   #7 
  - The problem with consumption taxes is they aren't progressive  Astrad   Jun-07-11 05:14 PM   #16 
  - If you exempt necessities they are  notesdev   Jun-07-11 06:18 PM   #22 
     - The rich would end up paying even less.  Incitatus   Jun-07-11 07:52 PM   #44 
     - A lot of that ends up tax free due to exemptions  notesdev   Jun-07-11 09:37 PM   #71 
        - There needs to be a lot of changes to the tax code.  Incitatus   Jun-07-11 10:38 PM   #75 
     - no they would not be  hfojvt   Jun-07-11 08:12 PM   #51 
  - Many people don't make enough to "consume"...  kentuck   Jun-07-11 05:15 PM   #17 
  - Yep  notesdev   Jun-07-11 05:19 PM   #18 
  - Word. Income taxes are designed to keep poor & lower income from obtaining wealth.  Army of Dawgness   Jun-07-11 08:00 PM   #47 
     - The problem I see with consumption tax...  kentuck   Jun-07-11 08:20 PM   #57 
     - The same could be said for an income tax also.  Army of Dawgness   Jun-07-11 08:29 PM   #61 
     - However...  kentuck   Jun-07-11 09:50 PM   #74 
     - Actually, consumption taxes are much more stable than income taxes  taught_me_patience   Jun-08-11 04:44 PM   #113 
     - "Income taxes are designed to keep poor & lower income from obtaining wealth."  kentuck   Jun-07-11 09:36 PM   #69 
        - Meh. Let me rephrase.  Army of Dawgness   Jun-07-11 10:46 PM   #76 
           - What would the rate have to be?  kentuck   Jun-07-11 11:14 PM   #78 
              - Well.......  Army of Dawgness   Jun-07-11 11:28 PM   #81 
  - Here are my answers  taught_me_patience   Jun-07-11 04:32 PM   #8 
  - Here is a link comparing taxcuts and deficits - Dems and Repubs  kentuck   Jun-07-11 04:41 PM   #10 
  - $100,001 & up, 100%  Shagbark Hickory   Jun-07-11 05:06 PM   #12 
  - You mean, time to set fire to the playing field. nt  Dreamer Tatum   Jun-07-11 06:19 PM   #23 
  - Insanity! Pure, unadulterated Insanity!  Motown_Johnny   Jun-07-11 06:26 PM   #26 
     - delete  kentuck   Jun-07-11 06:29 PM   #29 
     - Happens to the best of us. nt  Shagbark Hickory   Jun-07-11 06:53 PM   #37 
     - Got it covered.  Shagbark Hickory   Jun-07-11 06:49 PM   #34 
        - impossible  Motown_Johnny   Jun-07-11 07:47 PM   #40 
           - $100,000 should buy a lot more than it currently does.  Shagbark Hickory   Jun-07-11 08:13 PM   #52 
              - but people won't, there is no longer any compensation for it  Motown_Johnny   Jun-07-11 09:19 PM   #66 
              - I don't think you're understanding.  Shagbark Hickory   Jun-08-11 09:37 AM   #82 
              - 100K "should buy"...  kick-ass-bob   Jun-08-11 09:57 AM   #84 
                 - Should the the directors of a university get paid $500k a year causing tuition to soar  Shagbark Hickory   Jun-08-11 10:49 AM   #93 
                    - OK - since we go anecdotal here...  kick-ass-bob   Jun-08-11 11:55 AM   #94 
                       - You must be out west or in the north.  Shagbark Hickory   Jun-08-11 02:11 PM   #102 
                          - who said anything about entry level? And no, I'm in NC.  kick-ass-bob   Jun-08-11 02:26 PM   #103 
                             - Is money the only reason you do what you do?  Shagbark Hickory   Jun-08-11 07:22 PM   #114 
  - we want to start with a 4.6% increase, from 35% to 39.6% (the Clinton rate)  Motown_Johnny   Jun-07-11 05:10 PM   #14 
  - up to 30k  backwoodsbob   Jun-07-11 05:25 PM   #19 
  - Why should up to 30k pay zero?  taught_me_patience   Jun-07-11 06:21 PM   #24 
  - That's the fundamental problem with American taxes.  Xithras   Jun-08-11 12:42 PM   #99 
  - 10-12k maybe. But 30k is a full fledged salary in these parts. nt  Shagbark Hickory   Jun-07-11 06:54 PM   #38 
  - People who are well off need to quit playing poor.  JVS   Jun-07-11 06:22 PM   #25 
  - We are trying to sell our boat...  kentuck   Jun-07-11 06:27 PM   #27 
     - +! That's the same old song, innit?  Shagbark Hickory   Jun-07-11 08:18 PM   #54 
  - It's not the $100K to $250K that are ctitical...  JHB   Jun-07-11 06:43 PM   #31 
  - Deleted message  Name removed   Jun-07-11 06:43 PM   #32 
  - Because the $5k bite hurts the $50k person a LOT more than the $25k bite hurts the $250k person.  Commie Pinko Dirtbag   Jun-07-11 06:50 PM   #36 
  - I suggest income taxes on "55 minus 10"...  JHB   Jun-07-11 07:06 PM   #39 
  - "Shouldn't everyone have to pay something?"  boppers   Jun-07-11 07:50 PM   #41 
  - Revert back to the brackets under Clinton  B-Stupid   Jun-07-11 07:52 PM   #43 
  - 0 percent to 50K a year, 20% income over 50k  Incitatus   Jun-07-11 08:00 PM   #46 
  - $0.00  George Wythe   Jun-07-11 08:10 PM   #49 
  - Another idea worthy of exploration. nt  Shagbark Hickory   Jun-07-11 08:19 PM   #55 
  - But what are these tariffs, and where does that money come from?  kick-ass-bob   Jun-08-11 10:06 AM   #85 
     - Yep, tariffs are not a good idea, especially in poor economic times  IndyPragmatist   Jun-08-11 10:21 AM   #92 
     - In theory, I support the concept of free-trade. Free trade would be fine  George Wythe   Jun-08-11 04:26 PM   #109 
     - It is really no different than the taxes that localities implement on tourists.  George Wythe   Jun-08-11 04:31 PM   #110 
  - "Shouldn't everyone have to pay something?" Yes, but some don't - if you  Obamanaut   Jun-07-11 08:24 PM   #59 
  - No, actually.  JackRiddler   Jun-07-11 08:38 PM   #63 
  - $1milliion - 45%, $1billion-49%  elleng   Jun-07-11 08:25 PM   #60 
  - Just about zero. That should be the full, lone exemption, no other loopholes.  JackRiddler   Jun-07-11 08:36 PM   #62 
  - First, everybody should file as single.  JVS   Jun-07-11 09:18 PM   #65 
  - What would be the tax for this guy?  jtuck004   Jun-07-11 09:29 PM   #68 
     - Use the lower chart that I provided to figure it out.  JVS   Jun-07-11 09:38 PM   #72 
     - That guy? We should be talking imprisonment & full clawback of everything he's worth.  JackRiddler   Jun-08-11 07:40 PM   #115 
  - I think it's fair to say that an individual who earns $100,000/yr already pays close to a 50% tax  Vinee   Jun-07-11 09:24 PM   #67 
  - Exactly  Carolina   Jun-08-11 12:46 PM   #100 
  - Agreed.  JackRiddler   Jun-08-11 07:50 PM   #117 
  - Nobody earning less than the poverty line should pay income tax  OnlinePoker   Jun-07-11 09:36 PM   #70 
  - See my post above.  JVS   Jun-07-11 09:40 PM   #73 
     - What breaks?  OnlinePoker   Jun-07-11 11:02 PM   #77 
  - The difference between tax on 250, 000 and 25000 is this....  Marrah_G   Jun-08-11 10:13 AM   #86 
  - I really don't think it's smart to go above 60%  IndyPragmatist   Jun-08-11 10:19 AM   #90 
  - Your example is actually backward!  Spike89   Jun-08-11 02:59 PM   #106 
     - Why do have so many billion dollar businesses?  kentuck   Jun-08-11 03:28 PM   #107 
        - Are you responding to my post?  Spike89   Jun-08-11 04:13 PM   #108 
           - Thanks for your comments.  kentuck   Jun-08-11 04:40 PM   #112 
  - You miss something critical. And the GOP is THRILLED that you do.  JoePhilly   Jun-08-11 04:35 PM   #111 
  - Why Are You Punishing Me?  ProfessorGAC   Jun-08-11 07:45 PM   #116 
  - $50,000/yr = 0% per individual, +1% per each add'l $25,000 capped at 50% - w/ NO exemptions  Kip Humphrey   Jun-09-11 07:22 AM   #120 
 

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