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Reply #52: In WWII we brought tons of nazis to trial And Hitler killed himself before we could put him on trial [View All]

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no limit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-09-11 06:01 PM
Response to Reply #43
52. In WWII we brought tons of nazis to trial And Hitler killed himself before we could put him on trial
who gets to decide what "ANY" individual is and what "any" individuals are. You say it is known Osama did all this and I'm not really gonna deny that. Our government also has prisoners in Gitmo that are confessed enemies who participated in terrorirst attacks. Do they deserve any due process or should we simply put 2 bullets in their head and be done with it? No? Why not? They are evil, they participated in killing many americans, and they happily confessed to it. Why not give them the Bin Laden treatment?

Like I told you, all I know about what the SEALs tried to do and didn't try to do is what the evidance shows they tried to do and didn't try to do. We know Bin Laden was unarmed. We know Obama didn't yesterday deny the suggestion this was a kill mission. And we know the government has so far refused to say this wasn't a kill mission. That's the evidance we have. I don't know or claim to know anything for a fact. If it turns out this was a kill mission would your position on it change in anyway?
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  -If you believe there is nothing illegal about going in to a country without permission... no limit  May-09-11 05:14 PM   #0 
  - Osama bin Laden mission agreed in secret 10 years ago by US and Pakistan  Ian David   May-09-11 05:17 PM   #1 
  - So you're saying if such a agreement didn't exist this operation would be illegal?  no limit   May-09-11 05:20 PM   #2 
     - "killing anyone we deem an enemy combatant" - I am not following you on your point  emulatorloo   May-09-11 05:25 PM   #10 
     - There are millions of people around the world that the US government considers at war with us  no limit   May-09-11 05:33 PM   #22 
     - Bin Laden declared war on America not the US government AMERICA  Drale   May-09-11 05:35 PM   #24 
     - You didn't answer my question.  no limit   May-09-11 05:35 PM   #25 
     - But I did  Drale   May-09-11 05:41 PM   #32 
     - Those other people put out statements online all the time about how they want Americans to die  no limit   May-09-11 05:47 PM   #39 
        - Taking him alive very easily could have cost American soldiers their lives  Drale   May-09-11 05:52 PM   #46 
        - Again, you aren't answering any of my questions.  no limit   May-09-11 06:03 PM   #53 
           - I really don't know what question you want me to answer  Drale   May-09-11 06:08 PM   #57 
              - I asked you the question of who gets to decide what the line is for when assassination is okay?  no limit   May-09-11 06:12 PM   #60 
              - I don't know what you think the assassination is but  Drale   May-09-11 06:17 PM   #61 
                 - you are saying the objective of the mission was to capture Osama Bin Laden?  no limit   May-09-11 06:21 PM   #63 
                 - Where did you get your information  Drale   May-09-11 06:22 PM   #66 
                    - I never said Obama ordered the assassination of Osama  no limit   May-09-11 06:28 PM   #67 
                    - I have not heard anyone ask the White House  Drale   May-09-11 06:32 PM   #68 
                       - You would not want to bomb in this case for many reasons  no limit   May-09-11 06:35 PM   #71 
                          - I think claiming this was an assassination mission  Drale   May-09-11 06:37 PM   #73 
                          - As I pointed out to you I never claimed this was a assassination mission  no limit   May-09-11 06:42 PM   #77 
                    - Um, Reuters and The Atlantic Monthly reported independently  coalition_unwilling   May-09-11 10:50 PM   #114 
                    - There are reports that that was the case. And the story was inconsistent.  Capitalocracy   May-10-11 11:04 AM   #141 
                 - Oh, FFS, enough with the transparently disingeuous apologetics already. Both  coalition_unwilling   May-09-11 10:48 PM   #113 
              - This country spent years killing 3,000 Iraqis a day before lunch even rolled around.  stranger81   May-09-11 09:21 PM   #104 
              - Who needs self interest when you have 'Might Makes Right'  coalition_unwilling   May-09-11 10:54 PM   #115 
              - The question was asked. WHERE'S THE LIMIT?  Canuckistanian   May-09-11 09:50 PM   #108 
              - And we killed a million people in Iraq, a country that had nothing to do with 9/11,  RC   May-09-11 11:17 PM   #117 
        - Excellent question - WHERE'S THE LIMIT? n/t  Canuckistanian   May-09-11 09:44 PM   #105 
     - Bin Laden acted on his war by killing 3000 of Americans and  shraby   May-09-11 06:12 PM   #59 
     - You are confusing the rabble with leaders who are organizing/directing/ financing terrorist events  Sheepshank   May-09-11 07:54 PM   #94 
        - All the OP is pointing out is that there is no legal process by which people are  sudopod   May-10-11 10:43 AM   #134 
           - nope I wasn't responding to the op...  Sheepshank   May-10-11 01:15 PM   #146 
     - A fatwa is NOT a declaration of war. Only states can declare war on other states - n/t  coalition_unwilling   May-09-11 10:45 PM   #111 
     - Because there are already UN and US provisions to be used against Bin Laden  dkf   May-09-11 07:18 PM   #90 
     - I'd like to respond by copying and pasting a brilliant response  coalition_unwilling   May-09-11 10:43 PM   #110 
     - He was killed while resisting arrest. Oops. n/t  Ian David   May-09-11 05:27 PM   #13 
        - Why are you having such a hard time with such simple questions?  no limit   May-09-11 05:32 PM   #21 
        - Because I'm actually conflicted about it a little. n/t  Ian David   May-09-11 05:43 PM   #33 
           - So me mostly agree  no limit   May-09-11 05:49 PM   #42 
        - He was killed while trying to escape. Oops. Support our Oops. - n/t  coalition_unwilling   May-09-11 10:55 PM   #116 
  - Our last two Presidents have claimed the right to kill ANYONE  Vinnie From Indy   May-09-11 05:22 PM   #3 
  - Pretty clear that Pakistan would have tipped OBL off.  emulatorloo   May-09-11 05:22 PM   #4 
  - It isn't clear at all. It's not clear Pakistan didn't tip us off. n/t  EFerrari   May-09-11 05:23 PM   #6 
     - So far Pakistan's public stance is we knew nothing about OBL living in that compound n/t  emulatorloo   May-09-11 05:27 PM   #14 
  - Bush's assasination program provided the personnel to kill bin Laden.  EFerrari   May-09-11 05:23 PM   #5 
  - Self-flagellate else-ware.  JoePhilly   May-09-11 05:24 PM   #7 
  - Why do you find the basic question I asked about due process so offensive?  no limit   May-09-11 05:30 PM   #19 
     - If you don't think bin Laden was a terrorist of mass proportion...  JuniperLea   May-09-11 05:39 PM   #29 
     - You are attributing a position to me which I don't hold. Surely you're smarter than that  no limit   May-09-11 05:45 PM   #36 
        - If you don't hold that position...  JuniperLea   May-09-11 05:48 PM   #40 
        - I am happy to discuss with you my positions on this as I have been doing in this thread  no limit   May-09-11 05:51 PM   #44 
           - How funny you are...  JuniperLea   May-09-11 05:54 PM   #47 
        - "Surely you're smarter than that."  Forkboy   May-10-11 04:15 PM   #151 
     - OBL is not "any" individual.  JoePhilly   May-09-11 05:50 PM   #43 
        - In WWII we brought tons of nazis to trial And Hitler killed himself before we could put him on trial  no limit   May-09-11 06:01 PM   #52 
           - My father was in WWII and when he was in his 70s, he told me  shraby   May-09-11 06:18 PM   #62 
              - and you think such an order was a good idea?  no limit   May-09-11 06:22 PM   #64 
              - It was a fact that the SS executed many people without trials.  shraby   May-09-11 06:51 PM   #83 
                 - And he was sure every single person they shot on sight was guilty?  no limit   May-09-11 07:18 PM   #89 
                    - You are honestly questioning whether someone wearing an SS uniform my not have been guilty?  Javaman   May-10-11 10:22 AM   #130 
                    - SS was guilty. Executing people was what they did for their  shraby   May-10-11 04:09 PM   #150 
              - +10000000000000000000  JoePhilly   May-09-11 07:07 PM   #86 
  - Necessary, or not?  Davis_X_Machina   May-09-11 05:25 PM   #8 
  - Why would it be against the rules to link to earlier topics?  LiberalAndProud   May-09-11 05:25 PM   #9 
  - I think it falls under the "calling people out" rule  no limit   May-09-11 05:34 PM   #23 
     - I think you'll be fine if you don't name any specific DUer  Capitalocracy   May-10-11 10:49 AM   #136 
  - Deleted message  Name removed   May-09-11 05:26 PM   #11 
  - It is easy to draw the line  hack89   May-09-11 05:27 PM   #12 
  - +1000 n/t  Ian David   May-09-11 05:28 PM   #15 
  - Well put n/t  emulatorloo   May-09-11 05:29 PM   #17 
  - I sincerely wish you'd start a thread with this post. Very well put.  KittyWampus   May-09-11 05:30 PM   #18 
  - Who defines what a terrorist is?  no limit   May-09-11 05:31 PM   #20 
  - Groups with a history of killing Americans  hack89   May-09-11 05:37 PM   #27 
  - So if I understand you correctly the only thing that differentiates Osama from all other terrorists  no limit   May-09-11 05:40 PM   #31 
  - What are you trying to get at?  hack89   May-09-11 05:45 PM   #37 
  - Okay, so if the US government says that someone collaborated with Osama to kill americans  no limit   May-09-11 06:04 PM   #54 
     - We shoud arrest him if possible  hack89   May-09-11 06:39 PM   #75 
        - plots to kill americans in the war in terror of just kill americans in general?  no limit   May-09-11 06:43 PM   #78 
           - International cooperation on the war on drugs is pretty good  hack89   May-09-11 06:48 PM   #81 
              - Really? Have you seen what is happening in Mexico?  no limit   May-09-11 07:19 PM   #91 
                 - Both countries have extradited cartel leaders to America  hack89   May-09-11 09:16 PM   #102 
                    - Pakistan has extradited terrorist leaders to America  no limit   May-10-11 09:08 AM   #120 
  - Your assumptive statement is a giant "fail"  Sheepshank   May-09-11 08:40 PM   #96 
  - How about Americans killing Muslims who have done nothing  sabrina 1   May-09-11 06:06 PM   #55 
     - I am not claiming we can kill anyone anywhere  hack89   May-09-11 06:45 PM   #80 
        - No, but I am saying that if that is the case, then every other  sabrina 1   May-09-11 08:56 PM   #98 
           - Well, if we let a foreign national plan acts of terrorism in America  hack89   May-09-11 09:12 PM   #99 
              - Yes, I know he was not a government agent. So why did we  sabrina 1   May-09-11 10:32 PM   #109 
  - Oh please...  JuniperLea   May-09-11 05:38 PM   #28 
     - That description certainly does describe a terrorist  no limit   May-09-11 05:44 PM   #35 
        - There is no line, "magical" or otherwise...  JuniperLea   May-09-11 05:46 PM   #38 
        - Okay, so if the president decides to kill someone because he says they killed lets say 10 people  no limit   May-09-11 05:48 PM   #41 
           - Don't put words in my mouth...  JuniperLea   May-09-11 05:51 PM   #45 
              - Like I said, if that is not your position then by all means correct me. And you didn't correct me  no limit   May-09-11 06:08 PM   #56 
                 - That is a weak story...  JuniperLea   May-09-11 06:37 PM   #74 
                    - But again, if the president decided in that case the guy needed to go it would be legal, right?  no limit   May-09-11 06:44 PM   #79 
                       - Obama didn't decide that OBL was a terrorist...  JuniperLea   May-09-11 06:49 PM   #82 
                          - Obama didn't decide that drug dealer was a terrorist. The drug dealer did so himself  no limit   May-09-11 07:14 PM   #87 
        - The US government deemed the line crossed back in the 1990s  RZM   May-09-11 05:55 PM   #48 
        - It's called discretion.  NYC Liberal   May-09-11 05:57 PM   #49 
           - So ok...to review your position  no limit   May-09-11 06:10 PM   #58 
              - No, that is not my position.  NYC Liberal   May-09-11 06:32 PM   #70 
                 - You missed the point entirely, let me try to make it a bit clearer  no limit   May-09-11 06:41 PM   #76 
                    - No.  NYC Liberal   May-09-11 06:55 PM   #84 
                       - We are at war with drugs. Thousands of Americans die in that war each year  no limit   May-09-11 07:16 PM   #88 
                          - Which drugs have declared war on the United States  NYC Liberal   May-09-11 07:43 PM   #93 
  - I agree with the others here...  JuniperLea   May-09-11 05:40 PM   #30 
  - Oh boohoo  donheld   May-09-11 05:28 PM   #16 
  - How could possibly have missed  pintobean   May-09-11 05:36 PM   #26 
  - Look, it's very simple...  RevStPatrick   May-09-11 05:44 PM   #34 
  - The way you feel about it should change depending on who is  deaniac21   May-09-11 05:59 PM   #50 
  - Your first problem is you ASSUME.  JTFrog   May-09-11 06:00 PM   #51 
  - I don't think they are just declaring any individual they want an enemy combatant  madokie   May-09-11 06:22 PM   #65 
  - If you believe OBL was just "part of the war on terror"  DevonRex   May-09-11 06:32 PM   #69 
  - leave him alone!1!1 *sob* he grew good weed and gifted bunnies and that evil obama killed him dead.  dionysus   May-10-11 10:24 AM   #132 
     - OMG. No way can anybody top this. Or even add to it.  DevonRex   May-10-11 10:46 AM   #135 
        - i propose arcadian,greenwald and mumia set up an independant commission to bring the truth to light!  dionysus   May-10-11 10:50 AM   #138 
           - The true martyrs of our age!! All hail the martyrs!  DevonRex   May-10-11 11:08 AM   #142 
  - There are reportedly 11 million people in this country without  Obamanaut   May-09-11 06:37 PM   #72 
  - We did that a lot in WWII. It's a war, whatever its extent.  MineralMan   May-09-11 07:02 PM   #85 
  - If someone does not want to be killed by the American military, they probably shouldn't declare war  BzaDem   May-09-11 07:42 PM   #92 
  - I'm a little more concerned about the OTHER people we kill in Pakistan  yurbud   May-09-11 07:56 PM   #95 
  - Deleted message  Name removed   May-09-11 08:46 PM   #97 
  - They are searching for something to talk about  Hutzpa   May-09-11 09:15 PM   #101 
  - Wow - you must have some super immunity to be able to question another Duer's  myrna minx   May-10-11 09:25 AM   #122 
  - I'm with you.  stranger81   May-09-11 09:13 PM   #100 
  - K&R [n/t]  stranger81   May-09-11 09:16 PM   #103 
  - Any individual? Osama wasn't any individual. As far as the pick  RegieRocker   May-09-11 09:46 PM   #106 
  - This is interesting, regarding suspected felons in Washington State:  Zorra   May-09-11 09:49 PM   #107 
  - It was legal under act of Congress  Hamlette   May-09-11 10:47 PM   #112 
  - Does an act of congress overwrite international law?  no limit   May-10-11 09:10 AM   #121 
     - I think the article makes a very good legal case that killing bin Laden does not "overwrite"  Hamlette   May-10-11 10:03 AM   #123 
        - You quoted an act of congress, not international law on the matter  no limit   May-10-11 10:12 AM   #125 
           - not all acts of congress violate international law  Hamlette   May-10-11 10:21 AM   #128 
              - not all acts of congress abide by international law either  no limit   May-10-11 10:28 AM   #133 
  - If you believe there is nothing illegal about going into a country without permission  AlabamaLibrul   May-09-11 11:18 PM   #118 
  - There are many people here who want EXACTLY THAT.  astral   May-10-11 12:19 AM   #119 
  - This should rightly terrify us.  poli_ticks   May-10-11 10:12 AM   #124 
  - They already put environmental activists in the same prisons as terrorists  Capitalocracy   May-10-11 11:46 AM   #145 
  - For every killing there is a context, and it is within that context that killings are judged.  aikoaiko   May-10-11 10:14 AM   #126 
  - It was legal. Congress authorized the President to do so  Freddie Stubbs   May-10-11 10:14 AM   #127 
  - Ah, like they did with invading Iraq.  Capitalocracy   May-10-11 10:50 AM   #137 
     - There is a difference between 'legal' and 'thing you don't like'  Freddie Stubbs   May-10-11 10:54 AM   #139 
        - Yes, but there's also a difference between "Congress said it was OK"  Capitalocracy   May-10-11 10:57 AM   #140 
           - Does President Obama need to be in prison too?  Freddie Stubbs   May-10-11 11:26 AM   #143 
           - I'm not going to directly answer that because of DU rules.  Capitalocracy   May-10-11 11:32 AM   #144 
              - He signed an executive order to close GITMO.  JTFrog   May-11-11 08:00 AM   #155 
           - Where does it say International law is part of the law of the land in the Constitution?  onenote   May-12-11 11:21 AM   #161 
  - You are outraged because you believe in an illusion. Other people do not believe in laws, and act  ZombieHorde   May-10-11 10:22 AM   #129 
  - Maybe Pakistan should have been smarter than to let OBL set up shop right under their noses.  backscatter712   May-10-11 10:23 AM   #131 
  - I read this morning that the Pakistani people are mighty upset about that too...  JuniperLea   May-10-11 01:19 PM   #147 
  - i'm sure they were well paid, remember, mullah omar was  pitohui   May-10-11 04:23 PM   #154 
  - Your poor assumptions are breathtakingly obnoxious.  Sheepshank   May-10-11 01:42 PM   #148 
  - You can't accuse someone of lying  Capitalocracy   May-11-11 03:05 PM   #156 
     - sure I can  Sheepshank   May-12-11 10:47 AM   #158 
  - Yawn.  closeupready   May-10-11 01:45 PM   #149 
  - if you believe there is nothing illegal abt harboring a mass murderer for almost a decade...  pitohui   May-10-11 04:19 PM   #152 
  - I'm so glad you posted this  nonperson   May-10-11 04:20 PM   #153 
  - You, me, and a host of others by the look of it...  JuniperLea   May-11-11 03:07 PM   #157 
  - Hey. I hear there's a new lefty board that started up...  SidDithers   May-12-11 10:53 AM   #159 
  - How would you handle the following scenario?  onenote   May-12-11 10:59 AM   #160 
 

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