Cherchez la Femme
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Sun May-08-11 04:53 PM
Response to Reply #102 |
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but I am always grateful when people prove their contentions by quoting their sources. I'll definitely peruse the magazine later (I Have heard of it). Much appreciated, & bookmarked!  |
| -The Hand Wringing Over Osama’s Death from Fellow Progressives is Unwarranted |
stevenleser |
May-08-11 09:24 AM |
#0 |
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Good, clear articulate writing and thinking. K&R |
patricia92243 |
May-08-11 09:30 AM |
#1 |
| -
There are no false moral equivalencies or hand wringings on his death |
mmonk |
May-08-11 09:32 AM |
#2 |
| -
Excellent post although there are quite a few around who |
PCIntern |
May-08-11 09:32 AM |
#3 |
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Wild accusation and almost certainly wrong. |
Bonobo |
May-08-11 10:01 AM |
#27 |
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Prove your contentions |
Cherchez la Femme |
May-08-11 12:06 PM |
#57 |
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Once you accept Bush's proposition that the entire planet is a war zone |
EFerrari |
May-08-11 09:33 AM |
#4 |
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I don't accept that proposition. That is a straw man. n/t |
stevenleser |
May-08-11 09:34 AM |
#8 |
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Not at all. It's the basic premise of the War on Terror. |
EFerrari |
May-08-11 09:37 AM |
#9 |
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I never asserted there is a war on terror and certainly not a global one. You are altering my |
stevenleser |
May-08-11 09:38 AM |
#10 |
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So in your war between the US and Al Qaida, what is the battlefield? |
EFerrari |
May-08-11 09:42 AM |
#14 |
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Generally, Afghanistan and Pakistan. n/t |
stevenleser |
May-08-11 09:46 AM |
#16 |
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The thing is, unless you accept the WOT's premise |
EFerrari |
May-08-11 10:00 AM |
#25 |
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No, that is not correct. International law has considered situations like this before |
stevenleser |
May-08-11 10:03 AM |
#28 |
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In your example, the non-state territories had no sovereignty to violate |
EFerrari |
May-08-11 10:24 AM |
#36 |
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You are now completely outside the premises of the OP with your comments. n/t |
stevenleser |
May-08-11 10:26 AM |
#37 |
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Not at all. |
EFerrari |
May-08-11 10:29 AM |
#38 |
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You incorrectly assume that a state of war can only exist between two states. Correcting for that |
BzaDem |
May-08-11 03:17 PM |
#79 |
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So, does Cuba have the right to come here and go after |
sabrina 1 |
May-09-11 04:32 PM |
#157 |
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Not Yemen? Not Saudi Arabia? Not Sudan? |
Cherchez la Femme |
May-08-11 12:13 PM |
#60 |
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That the world is a war zone is the national military policy. |
PufPuf23 |
May-08-11 10:12 AM |
#31 |
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That is outside of what I am arguing in the OP. n/t |
stevenleser |
May-08-11 10:15 AM |
#32 |
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Don't be obtuse. It is critical to your argument that bin Laden's death was a product of war. n/t |
Gormy Cuss |
May-08-11 11:49 AM |
#53 |
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Didn't you know? |
Cherchez la Femme |
May-08-11 12:09 PM |
#59 |
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Great post. |
JoePhilly |
May-08-11 09:33 AM |
#5 |
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Great post. K&R. nt |
sufrommich |
May-08-11 09:34 AM |
#6 |
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Well said. k&r |
Little Star |
May-08-11 09:34 AM |
#7 |
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Thank you for your thoughtful post. K&R nt |
Ilsa |
May-08-11 09:38 AM |
#11 |
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Excellent Steven. Kicked, Rec'ed and Bookmarked. |
phleshdef |
May-08-11 09:39 AM |
#12 |
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K&R |
jaxx |
May-08-11 09:40 AM |
#13 |
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Agree; well written, thought out and concise post. |
Ikonoklast |
May-08-11 09:43 AM |
#15 |
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Accidentally unrecced. |
tammywammy |
May-08-11 09:48 AM |
#17 |
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Glenn Greenwald has said it best: |
coalition_unwilling |
May-08-11 09:49 AM |
#18 |
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Its not a bin Laden exception. It is a war exception. International law is clear on this |
stevenleser |
May-08-11 09:53 AM |
#19 |
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Aside from the niggling little technicality ( so quaint and obsolete now as |
coalition_unwilling |
May-08-11 11:32 AM |
#49 |
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Congress did pass the AUMF almost unanimously. n/t |
BzaDem |
May-08-11 03:21 PM |
#83 |
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keep sailing that failboat all over the ocean of bitter. |
dionysus |
May-08-11 10:35 PM |
#115 |
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Why, dionysus! |
SDuderstadt |
May-09-11 04:31 PM |
#156 |
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America has no problem treating terrorism as a police problem |
hack89 |
May-08-11 10:36 AM |
#41 |
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So our CIA, and other approved contractors, aren't in the countries |
Cherchez la Femme |
May-08-11 12:54 PM |
#62 |
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I would hope they are crawling all over those countries... |
hack89 |
May-08-11 01:05 PM |
#65 |
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Your contention is |
Cherchez la Femme |
May-08-11 03:35 PM |
#91 |
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If Yemen doesn't have a functioning government, who is Obama giving all that |
EFerrari |
May-08-11 02:58 PM |
#74 |
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The Tribal areas of Pakistan are not governed by the national government |
hack89 |
May-08-11 03:08 PM |
#76 |
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I think you are mistaken on both counts. |
EFerrari |
May-08-11 03:17 PM |
#80 |
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But the Pakistan government exerts no control over the area |
hack89 |
May-08-11 03:24 PM |
#84 |
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Um, the default for international law is not to ignore it when it suits you. n/t |
EFerrari |
May-08-11 03:32 PM |
#88 |
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The default is not to let evil prevail |
hack89 |
May-08-11 05:41 PM |
#109 |
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Congress passed the Authorization to use Military Force almost unanimously. Not only did Obama |
BzaDem |
May-08-11 03:26 PM |
#85 |
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Indeed. No one else seems to see these easy analogies supposed to make this killing lawful. |
DirkGently |
May-08-11 11:36 AM |
#50 |
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It's easy to confine the issue |
hack89 |
May-08-11 01:17 PM |
#68 |
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Care to cite the U.S. statute (or statute in any body of international law) |
coalition_unwilling |
May-08-11 02:35 PM |
#72 |
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Self defense is a legitimate right under International law |
hack89 |
May-08-11 03:06 PM |
#75 |
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"There is no evidence . . . " - ah, evidence, that quaint and obsolete |
coalition_unwilling |
May-08-11 04:09 PM |
#98 |
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Not enough evidence to indict but |
Cherchez la Femme |
May-08-11 04:32 PM |
#101 |
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Just so you know I'm not making this up, the following quotation |
coalition_unwilling |
May-08-11 04:42 PM |
#102 |
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I never doubted you |
Cherchez la Femme |
May-08-11 04:53 PM |
#104 |
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You act like Greenwald's essay is any more accurate than Bush's view on "enhanced interrogation." |
BzaDem |
May-08-11 03:31 PM |
#87 |
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Actually for many I think it is not "hand-wringing" over his death percee... |
Bonobo |
May-08-11 09:54 AM |
#20 |
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President Obama |
Cherchez la Femme |
May-08-11 12:49 PM |
#61 |
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Your efforts are admirable. I don't buy it. 9-11 was a |
peacetalksforall |
May-08-11 09:55 AM |
#21 |
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International law's rules on war are not dependant on congress declaring war |
stevenleser |
May-08-11 09:56 AM |
#23 |
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Your wrong. US comes first and the two are attempted simultaneously. There would |
peacetalksforall |
May-08-11 11:56 AM |
#56 |
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No but |
Cherchez la Femme |
May-08-11 01:00 PM |
#63 |
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Authorization for Use of Military Force September 18, 2001 Public Law 107-40 |
BzaDem |
May-08-11 03:33 PM |
#89 |
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Jeebus, this has been gone over & over again |
Cherchez la Femme |
May-08-11 03:39 PM |
#92 |
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It should be gone over and over again until you and others who deny its existance return to reality. |
BzaDem |
May-08-11 03:40 PM |
#94 |
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I listened. I researched. I stil do not agree. |
Cherchez la Femme |
May-08-11 04:09 PM |
#99 |
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Yes, the joint resolution was done after the 9/11 attacks. Do you really think that supports your |
BzaDem |
May-08-11 11:54 PM |
#118 |
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Rhetorical war? You either live in a bubble or ignore all evidence that doesn't fit into your box. |
KittyWampus |
May-08-11 09:58 AM |
#24 |
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Yes, there is a war of words and threats. There is NO OFFICIAL war. |
peacetalksforall |
May-08-11 11:39 AM |
#51 |
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Agreed, but feasibility wasn't even considered. nt |
Cherchez la Femme |
May-08-11 01:02 PM |
#64 |
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Qualification: |
Cherchez la Femme |
May-08-11 05:21 PM |
#106 |
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That just flat out kicks ass. Very well done. |
pintobean |
May-08-11 09:55 AM |
#22 |
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Great post |
Mosby |
May-08-11 10:01 AM |
#26 |
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Why, do you think, the Nuremburg Trials were held, rather than summary executions? |
WinkyDink |
May-08-11 10:08 AM |
#29 |
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The answer is so simple. I am surprised you dont see it. |
stevenleser |
May-08-11 10:11 AM |
#30 |
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No Rules of Engagement permit shooting an unarmed enemy at point-blank range. Nor would the U.S. |
DirkGently |
May-08-11 11:25 AM |
#46 |
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Thank you. It was a 'hit job' and its defenders are really |
coalition_unwilling |
May-08-11 11:56 AM |
#55 |
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Recommending Post #46 by DirkGently ^^^ |
bvar22 |
May-08-11 03:10 PM |
#77 |
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You are wrong |
hack89 |
May-08-11 03:14 PM |
#78 |
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Could you please cite the legal authority that allows the United States |
EFerrari |
May-08-11 03:34 PM |
#90 |
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Authorization to use military force, passed 9/18/01. As for international law, if you are asserting |
BzaDem |
May-08-11 03:39 PM |
#93 |
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Burden of proof for killing is not the same as bike riding. Again, what will WE say when another |
DirkGently |
May-09-11 01:35 PM |
#147 |
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Lets flip the question |
hack89 |
May-08-11 05:39 PM |
#108 |
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The answer is there is no legal authority that allow the United States to do that. |
EFerrari |
May-09-11 12:49 PM |
#146 |
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Pakistan has the sovereign right to harbor and support terrorist |
hack89 |
May-09-11 01:59 PM |
#148 |
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You are jumbling up what is legal, what is expedient and what is right. |
EFerrari |
May-09-11 03:28 PM |
#149 |
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You have yet to show the law that permits Pakistan |
hack89 |
May-09-11 03:33 PM |
#150 |
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I don't have to prove Pakistan is a sovereign nation, it is self evident. n/t |
EFerrari |
May-09-11 03:47 PM |
#151 |
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So sovereign nations can wage proxy war with impunity? Interesting. |
hack89 |
May-09-11 04:14 PM |
#152 |
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You're shifting the goal posts again. n/t |
EFerrari |
May-09-11 04:30 PM |
#155 |
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No - you seem intent on making it impossible |
hack89 |
May-09-11 05:22 PM |
#161 |
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Because Eichmann wasn't running active Jihad |
Zax2me |
May-08-11 10:22 AM |
#34 |
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Still, they captured him |
Cherchez la Femme |
May-08-11 01:13 PM |
#67 |
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Only because it was easy to track and kidnap him |
hack89 |
May-08-11 03:20 PM |
#82 |
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We had OBL's mansion under surveillance for months |
Cherchez la Femme |
May-08-11 03:45 PM |
#95 |
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You are confusing two entirely separate situations. Eichmann was not at the time of capture a |
BzaDem |
May-08-11 03:48 PM |
#96 |
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*I'm* confused?! |
Cherchez la Femme |
May-08-11 04:47 PM |
#103 |
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With all due respect, I think your confusion may be a mock or |
coalition_unwilling |
May-08-11 10:54 PM |
#117 |
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The only people that need to stretch ingenuity beyond its natural limits are the people claiming it |
BzaDem |
May-09-11 12:00 AM |
#120 |
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The second |
Cherchez la Femme |
May-09-11 12:00 PM |
#145 |
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Yes, that was my point. You (not me) are confused. Not sure how I could have been more clear. |
BzaDem |
May-08-11 11:57 PM |
#119 |
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In the age of sucide bombers |
hack89 |
May-08-11 05:42 PM |
#110 |
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K & R |
Scurrilous |
May-08-11 10:21 AM |
#33 |
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K&R!,,, good insight |
Peacetrain |
May-08-11 10:24 AM |
#35 |
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There are always excellent reasons for the empire |
gratuitous |
May-08-11 10:30 AM |
#39 |
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I am happy to address any arguments that directly refute any of my premises. n/t |
stevenleser |
May-08-11 10:33 AM |
#40 |
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Done and done |
gratuitous |
May-08-11 05:13 PM |
#105 |
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I don't know one single progressive/liberal in real life who is hand wringing over this |
NNN0LHI |
May-08-11 10:42 AM |
#42 |
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Well, the UN has asked for a run down of the facts on this execution. |
EFerrari |
May-08-11 10:59 AM |
#44 |
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I don't recall any UN investigation into the illegal invasion and occupation of Iraq |
NNN0LHI |
May-08-11 11:49 AM |
#54 |
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The UN is a highly politicized body and I wouldn't trust them with my laundry. |
EFerrari |
May-08-11 01:46 PM |
#70 |
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+10000000000000000000000 |
L0oniX |
May-08-11 01:07 PM |
#66 |
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So are you for it or against it? |
Cherchez la Femme |
May-08-11 01:34 PM |
#69 |
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Read this |
NNN0LHI |
May-08-11 01:51 PM |
#71 |
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Thank you |
Cherchez la Femme |
May-08-11 04:02 PM |
#97 |
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How many progressives\liberals do you know in 'real life'? I have |
coalition_unwilling |
May-08-11 05:33 PM |
#107 |
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Exactly. It's a point scoring troll. |
joshcryer |
May-09-11 12:19 AM |
#125 |
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K&R to THAT! |
Keith Bee |
May-08-11 10:43 AM |
#43 |
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If they surrender it is a war crime to slaughter them anyway. |
themadstork |
May-08-11 11:00 AM |
#45 |
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+1 |
Zorra |
May-08-11 11:27 AM |
#47 |
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It's not coming from just progressive, but those versed in international law. |
Puregonzo1188 |
May-08-11 11:30 AM |
#48 |
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K&R! We were indeed at war with Al Qaeda. |
backscatter712 |
May-08-11 11:41 AM |
#52 |
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k&r |
uppityperson |
May-08-11 12:08 PM |
#58 |
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It isn't if we believe in true justice and not just vengeance. |
alarimer |
May-08-11 02:44 PM |
#73 |
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bin Laden was planning killing of innocent people right up to his death. |
bluestate10 |
May-08-11 03:17 PM |
#81 |
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Most career criminals don't stop until their careers are over. |
EFerrari |
May-08-11 03:26 PM |
#86 |
| -
So the SEALs, who dropped in via Helicopter, not knowing |
JoePhilly |
May-08-11 05:46 PM |
#111 |
| -
Its interesting. Obama uses McChrystal's JSOC assassiantion program |
EFerrari |
May-09-11 12:08 AM |
#122 |
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i'm glad people with your views are far, far away from the levers of power in the democratic party. |
dionysus |
May-08-11 10:40 PM |
#116 |
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Yes, because due process of law is to toxic to our culture. |
EFerrari |
May-09-11 12:11 AM |
#123 |
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The process guaranteed by law (domestic and international) to Bin Laden was a bullet to the head, in |
BzaDem |
May-09-11 12:15 AM |
#124 |
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+1 |
joshcryer |
May-09-11 12:32 AM |
#126 |
| -
Thank you for |
billh58 |
May-08-11 04:19 PM |
#100 |
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No hand wringing.. just tired of hearing is name... |
lib2DaBone |
May-08-11 05:47 PM |
#112 |
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Outstanding. Thanks for this. nt |
Flatulo |
May-08-11 10:09 PM |
#113 |
| -
We shouldn't have gone into Afghanistan with massive military force, |
MadHound |
May-08-11 10:18 PM |
#114 |
| -
I'm still waiting for a clear explanation. |
grahamhgreen |
May-09-11 12:05 AM |
#121 |
| -
A Fatwa Is Not a Declaration of War |
SoDesuKa |
May-09-11 02:39 AM |
#127 |
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I wish I could recommend this response. I hope you will consider |
coalition_unwilling |
May-09-11 02:54 AM |
#129 |
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"Only a state can declare war." False. Once you correct for that false statement, your argument |
BzaDem |
May-09-11 02:59 AM |
#130 |
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Your comparison to Yamamoto is inaccurate. Not quite the same thing. |
Rex |
May-09-11 02:51 AM |
#128 |
| -
But that assumes one can't go to war against a non-state actor, and that is a false assumption. |
BzaDem |
May-09-11 03:04 AM |
#131 |
| -
No that doesn't. One was the military head of state during wartime. |
Rex |
May-09-11 03:07 AM |
#132 |
| -
That's like saying we couldn't have legally killed Hitler because he wasn't the head of Japan. |
BzaDem |
May-09-11 03:09 AM |
#133 |
| -
Wrong. |
Rex |
May-09-11 03:12 AM |
#134 |
| -
Says the person who cannot marshal one section of a single law that proves his argument. |
BzaDem |
May-09-11 03:14 AM |
#135 |
| -
You fail to grasp the facts in this matter. |
Rex |
May-09-11 03:17 AM |
#136 |
| -
The fact that you can't identify a SINGLE law to support your argument is your fault, at least if |
BzaDem |
May-09-11 03:17 AM |
#137 |
| -
LOL. I stand by what I said that Yamamoto and OBL are two different |
Rex |
May-09-11 03:20 AM |
#138 |
| -
Yes, you essentially quote yourself because you can't identify a single law that depends on the |
BzaDem |
May-09-11 03:22 AM |
#139 |
| -
Between a head of state and a citizen of a country? |
Rex |
May-09-11 03:24 AM |
#140 |
| -
The question is not whether there is a distinction (there is). The question is whether the |
BzaDem |
May-09-11 03:28 AM |
#141 |
| -
You are rambling. |
Rex |
May-09-11 03:29 AM |
#142 |
| -
If I were making an incorrect statement about the relevancy of a distinction, I would also find |
BzaDem |
May-09-11 03:30 AM |
#143 |
| -
Kicked for the Monday crowd n/t |
stevenleser |
May-09-11 11:37 AM |
#144 |
| -
k&r |
meow mix |
May-09-11 04:16 PM |
#153 |
| -
You MUST have better things to do than start another devisive thread! |
elias49 |
May-09-11 04:27 PM |
#154 |
| -
Well, I can correct the spelling of people who don't have much to offer in the way of debate... |
stevenleser |
May-09-11 04:56 PM |
#158 |
| -
I actually thought that yours was the best thought out |
EFerrari |
May-09-11 04:58 PM |
#159 |
| -
Meh. When I see a thread like this in the G/D forum |
elias49 |
May-09-11 06:38 PM |
#162 |
| -
Please define "Progressive" as you use the term in the OP please. |
PassingFair |
May-09-11 05:10 PM |
#160 |
| -
You only had to read the first sentence. |
stevenleser |
May-09-11 07:13 PM |
#163 |
| -
Check your OP again. You contradict yourself. nt |
PassingFair |
May-09-11 07:19 PM |
#164 |
| -
Keep telling yourself that. n/t |
stevenleser |
May-09-11 07:25 PM |
#165 |
| -
Well said and thanks |
quaker bill |
May-09-11 07:47 PM |
#166 |
| -
i'm as liberal as they come -here. i'm also good with OBL getting whacked |
upi402 |
May-09-11 08:47 PM |
#167 |
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