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Reply #79: I believe in results and data. [View All]

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kenfrequed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-03-11 11:12 AM
Response to Reply #60
79. I believe in results and data.
Finnish schools out perform ours.

Rather than wasting time with Bush-sucking No child left behind BS and constantly testing to provide a rationale for closing schools with an absurdly low tax base to support them to increase the size of classes for students that come from poor families that have been underexposed to ideas and education growing up, we should make school the one place where we can attempt to elevate and equalize the education experience as much as possible.

Punishing schools and teachers by deprivation of funds is empty political BS rhetoric that accomplishes nothing. It is like putting a starving man on a diet to to teach the local food shelf a lesson about the value of food. It makes no sense.
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  -Four Reasons Finlands Schools are Better Than Ours Lorien  Jan-02-11 01:56 PM   #0 
  - Many people in this country  Drale   Jan-02-11 01:59 PM   #1 
  - I'm happy to kick and recommend this information once again.  LWolf   Jan-02-11 02:07 PM   #2 
  - So our teachers should be required to get advanced degrees and more rigorous preparation  stray cat   Jan-02-11 02:19 PM   #3 
  - Actually, we already have many teachers with advanced degrees.  LWolf   Jan-02-11 02:49 PM   #8 
  - This sort of info should be a permanent fixture of the home page. nt  snagglepuss   Jan-02-11 02:36 PM   #5 
  - They don't take standardized tests, except when they are taking standardized tests  Taitertots   Jan-02-11 02:53 PM   #9 
     - Wrong.  LWolf   Jan-02-11 03:44 PM   #13 
     - What is higher stakes than determining if you go to college?  Taitertots   Jan-02-11 03:53 PM   #14 
        - Determining what school you go to, what kind of teachers are allowed  LWolf   Jan-02-11 04:08 PM   #15 
           - So  Still a Democrat   Jan-02-11 04:20 PM   #19 
           - Well stated  customerserviceguy   Jan-02-11 04:40 PM   #21 
           - Completely agree about social problems and ethnic diversity being challenges  Still a Democrat   Jan-02-11 04:55 PM   #24 
           - I was hoping that you'd find  customerserviceguy   Jan-02-11 05:25 PM   #26 
           - My number one reason for the problems of education  Yupster   Jan-03-11 09:53 AM   #70 
           - High-stakes tests...bad. Period.  LWolf   Jan-02-11 05:37 PM   #28 
           - Oh, I understand perfectly  Still a Democrat   Jan-02-11 06:09 PM   #34 
              - Low-stakes tests don't have ramifications for students,  LWolf   Jan-02-11 06:19 PM   #36 
              - Deleted message  Name removed   Jan-02-11 06:27 PM   #38 
              - So do you believe in accountability for teachers and schools?  Still a Democrat   Jan-03-11 07:51 AM   #60 
                 - I believe in results and data.  kenfrequed   Jan-03-11 11:12 AM   #79 
                 - Of course I do.  LWolf   Jan-04-11 07:44 AM   #102 
              - I wish that you and everyone with your ideas would  roody   Jan-02-11 10:57 PM   #51 
              - There is nothing wrong with accountability.  Kajsa   Jan-03-11 09:36 AM   #68 
              - Ok  kenfrequed   Jan-03-11 11:07 AM   #78 
           - US colleges typically require sats or comparable tests. graduate schools typically require  Hannah Bell   Jan-02-11 06:34 PM   #39 
           - Yes, because there is such a thing as individual aptitude for college  Lydia Leftcoast   Jan-03-11 10:13 AM   #72 
           - Those are all determined by testing, it is in the article  Taitertots   Jan-02-11 05:51 PM   #30 
              - ???  LWolf   Jan-02-11 06:10 PM   #35 
                 - Lets see if this clears it up  Taitertots   Jan-02-11 06:39 PM   #40 
                    - Okay.  LWolf   Jan-04-11 07:38 AM   #101 
     - Your second sentence isn't necessarily a bad thing  JackintheGreen   Jan-03-11 07:36 AM   #59 
        - Hmm that reminds me of something...  kenfrequed   Jan-03-11 11:20 AM   #80 
  - Recommend  xchrom   Jan-02-11 02:20 PM   #4 
  - Fifth, everyone in Finland  Zorra   Jan-02-11 02:43 PM   #6 
  - Bad, perhaps  ChazII   Jan-02-11 02:48 PM   #7 
  - They're in Finland, for a start... n/t  Davis_X_Machina   Jan-02-11 03:16 PM   #10 
  - They're also teaching a small culturally and linguistically homogeneous  Codeine   Jan-02-11 03:18 PM   #11 
  - Languages in the New York City School system...  Ikonoklast   Jan-02-11 05:25 PM   #27 
  - How many languages are spoken in Wichita, Kansas?  liberation   Jan-02-11 10:44 PM   #50 
     - 14% of all students in Wichita are not native English speakers.  Ikonoklast   Jan-03-11 04:11 PM   #96 
     - Quite a few actually  proud2BlibKansan   Jan-03-11 04:11 PM   #97 
  - Please explain what differences in policy the heterogeneity of US schools requires.  JackRiddler   Jan-03-11 01:44 AM   #55 
  - I don't think it requires a different policy at all.  Codeine   Jan-03-11 09:45 AM   #69 
     - Okay, thanks for clearing that up.  JackRiddler   Jan-03-11 10:31 AM   #76 
     - But it would be an improvement.  kenfrequed   Jan-03-11 11:24 AM   #81 
  - Not really. There is a Swedish-speaking minority in Finland,  Lydia Leftcoast   Jan-03-11 10:15 AM   #74 
  - This is true, Lydia.  Kajsa   Jan-03-11 12:17 PM   #86 
  - Bingo.  Demoiselle   Jan-03-11 11:06 AM   #77 
     - Are you kidding? With nearly our entire population glued to the TV six or more  Lorien   Jan-03-11 12:25 PM   #89 
  - k&r!  Starry Messenger   Jan-02-11 03:20 PM   #12 
  - except they leave out a big one - homogeneity  hfojvt   Jan-02-11 04:09 PM   #16 
  - From Linda Darling-Hammond:  LWolf   Jan-02-11 05:52 PM   #31 
  - +100.  Hannah Bell   Jan-02-11 06:52 PM   #41 
  - no, I think a key there is still "most immigrants are from places like Sweden"  hfojvt   Jan-03-11 11:30 AM   #82 
  - The data is a crock.  LWolf   Jan-04-11 07:19 AM   #100 
  - Yep, exactly. nt  Lorien   Jan-03-11 12:26 PM   #90 
  - They are leaving it out because correlation does not imply causation.  liberation   Jan-02-11 10:36 PM   #49 
  - that doesnt make sense. if you have such a wide and clear difference  seabeyond   Jan-03-11 08:40 AM   #62 
     - You're right, trying to push racist BS makes much more sense than basic mathematical logic...  liberation   Jan-03-11 09:23 AM   #66 
        - there is a problem that needs to be addressed for the health and welfare of these groups  seabeyond   Jan-03-11 09:26 AM   #67 
        - How exactly was I "burying my head?"  liberation   Jan-03-11 12:11 PM   #85 
        - right, it is racist BS to note we have a "brutal racial history"  hfojvt   Jan-03-11 11:38 AM   #83 
           - No, that is indeed not racist. That is also not what the previous poster implied.  liberation   Jan-03-11 12:21 PM   #88 
              - why do you mention "lowering academic standards"?  hfojvt   Jan-03-11 03:36 PM   #95 
  - Sobering assessment  XemaSab   Jan-03-11 02:39 PM   #93 
  - U.S. public-school principals/supers were all classroom teachers.  WinkyDink   Jan-02-11 04:10 PM   #17 
  - That's not true  proud2BlibKansan   Jan-02-11 04:45 PM   #23 
  - In Wisconsin, and I'm guessing Minnesota (which is where I  Lifelong Protester   Jan-02-11 05:40 PM   #29 
  - That USED to be the rule in every state, IIRC  proud2BlibKansan   Jan-02-11 06:23 PM   #37 
  - I've been a teacher for 37 years, and I don't know of one single admin ...  11 Bravo   Jan-02-11 08:01 PM   #43 
  - In my 28 year career,  LWolf   Jan-02-11 05:57 PM   #32 
  - In the past, yes.  Reader Rabbit   Jan-02-11 10:04 PM   #46 
  - No mention of parents?  Still a Democrat   Jan-02-11 04:13 PM   #18 
  - Just need a political party that gets it n/t  upi402   Jan-02-11 04:31 PM   #20 
  - That almost seems like common sense, aye?  xor   Jan-02-11 04:43 PM   #22 
  - A small, homogeneous population with a cultural history of respecting education helps, too.  Brickbat   Jan-02-11 04:57 PM   #25 
  - Wonderful posthockery.  Igel   Jan-02-11 06:02 PM   #33 
  - excellent post. we never point out the difference that explain, we just say  seabeyond   Jan-03-11 08:45 AM   #63 
  - Best post of the thread  Stuckinthebush   Jan-03-11 03:28 PM   #94 
  - Would they allow Arne Duncan to be Sec of Ed in Finland?  vssmith   Jan-02-11 07:57 PM   #42 
  - Not no, but,  chervilant   Jan-03-11 08:29 AM   #61 
  - "Finland's Schools are Better Than Ours"  MilesColtrane   Jan-02-11 09:50 PM   #44 
  - Massachusetts' schools are better than Finland's  MannyGoldstein   Jan-02-11 09:50 PM   #45 
  - I'm surprised to hear that.  avaistheone1   Jan-03-11 01:29 AM   #53 
  - Wow.  Codeine   Jan-03-11 10:25 AM   #75 
  - "waiting for superman", continually talks about Finland, yet never offers the Finnish solutions,  grahamhgreen   Jan-02-11 10:30 PM   #47 
  - It's almost like education isn't the same as widget-making.  DirkGently   Jan-02-11 10:34 PM   #48 
  - And that it isn't only intended to lead to a life of widget making  Lorien   Jan-03-11 12:17 PM   #87 
     - Heresy! 8)  DirkGently   Jan-03-11 11:55 PM   #98 
  - Only 10% of the 5000 applicants each year are accepted to the faculties of education in  avaistheone1   Jan-03-11 01:27 AM   #52 
  - Let's exchange language homogeneity with the metric system. OK?  Loudmxr   Jan-03-11 01:39 AM   #54 
  - Thank you, Lorien. K&R!  Enthusiast   Jan-03-11 04:58 AM   #56 
  - Cubas are too  dipsydoodle   Jan-03-11 06:54 AM   #57 
  - Recommended. nt  TBF   Jan-03-11 07:01 AM   #58 
  - K&R ! //nt  Overseas   Jan-03-11 08:46 AM   #64 
  - We're too busy assessing students instead of teaching. Finland has FREE schools through university  2 Much Tribulation   Jan-03-11 09:00 AM   #65 
  - Excellent - Thanks for posting this!!!  Sparkly   Jan-03-11 09:55 AM   #71 
  - This assumes that everyone wants to really improve public education.  baldguy   Jan-03-11 10:14 AM   #73 
  - K&R n/t  DeSwiss   Jan-03-11 12:03 PM   #84 
  - Of course Arne Duncan and this administration are bought and paid for by corporations...  Fearless   Jan-03-11 12:33 PM   #91 
  - Kicked and recommended.  Uncle Joe   Jan-03-11 12:35 PM   #92 
  - Latecomer to this thread but  teacher gal   Jan-04-11 12:12 AM   #99 
  - For millionth time: we can't compare the US to those countries  Nevernose   Jan-04-11 07:56 AM   #103 
     - yup. repeated over and over, yet ignored. nt  seabeyond   Jan-04-11 08:10 AM   #104 

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