| 108. Does not change the fact that being read is still good for him/her |
|
and may very well lead to them being able to eat.
How much does a writer make by griping about piracy?
My position is not that writers should not write for pay. I certainly do try to get paid. The more I'm paid to write, the more I can write!
What I'm objecting to is using the standard way of thinking about labor-compensatiom to justify backwards ideas on electronic publishing. The "rules" that went with traditional publishing should not necessarily be applied to epublishing. It's a different world; writing exists independently of the written page. This opens up tons of new opportunities, but we'll miss them if we insist that nothing in the world of books should ever change.
|
| -Found our first pirated e-book today |
Spike89 |
May-05-11 01:59 PM |
#0 |
 -
But don't you understand? Your information should be free! |
Codeine |
May-05-11 02:05 PM |
#1 |
 -
Pity there's no way to imbed a trojan horse bomb in |
MineralMan |
May-05-11 02:11 PM |
#3 |
| -
Because the appropriate response to copyright violation is vandalism and destruction of property? |
TheWraith |
May-05-11 02:36 PM |
#12 |
| -
Yep, seriously. |
RC |
May-05-11 02:51 PM |
#15 |
| -
I didn't destroy anything. The software simply encrypted the data |
MineralMan |
May-05-11 02:58 PM |
#17 |
 -
"Pity there's no way to... permanently disable the device if the material was pirated." |
TheWraith |
May-05-11 04:45 PM |
#50 |
| -
It is, but there's no way to do that via an ebook, so it's |
MineralMan |
May-05-11 06:55 PM |
#118 |
| -
Doesn't matter. It's still an inappropriate response. |
TheWraith |
May-05-11 08:21 PM |
#121 |
| -
No, actually the appropriate response is prosecution for the |
MineralMan |
May-05-11 03:06 PM |
#18 |
| -
Deleted message |
Name removed |
May-05-11 05:40 PM |
#99 |
| -
What's your point? |
MineralMan |
May-06-11 08:31 AM |
#158 |
| -
Plenty of precedence ... |
JustABozoOnThisBus |
May-06-11 06:59 AM |
#153 |
| -
If you do that people will refuse to buy your products. |
Dappleganger |
May-05-11 04:00 PM |
#29 |
| -
Thanks for explaining why I don't use closed source software. |
hunter |
May-05-11 04:47 PM |
#53 |
| -
I like your style, kid. |
timtom |
May-06-11 06:05 AM |
#151 |
| -
Wow. Enlightening post. So you use freeware exclusively? PC based only, right? |
zonkers |
May-06-11 09:55 AM |
#161 |
| -
Free and Open Source software. |
hunter |
May-06-11 01:45 PM |
#173 |
| -
Surprise, surprise. |
Lucian |
May-05-11 05:38 PM |
# |
| -
Point is, you bought the book. It's your property. |
mainer |
May-05-11 08:49 PM |
#125 |
| -
And keeping a copy at the same time? |
Spike89 |
May-06-11 01:32 PM |
#171 |
| -
Funny thing is, that is basically our mission! |
Spike89 |
May-05-11 02:27 PM |
#5 |
| -
It's flattery |
Aerows |
May-05-11 04:10 PM |
#34 |
| -
It's flattery |
Aerows |
May-05-11 04:09 PM |
#33 |
| -
Flattery don't pay the bills. |
progressoid |
May-06-11 04:01 PM |
#180 |
| -
+1 |
geardaddy |
May-06-11 01:49 PM |
#174 |
| -
I'm sorry to hear that. |
MineralMan |
May-05-11 02:07 PM |
#2 |
| -
Unfortunately, you knew it had to happen... |
TreasonousBastard |
May-05-11 02:21 PM |
#4 |
| -
Yeah, we'd hoped being "fringe" would help |
Spike89 |
May-05-11 02:42 PM |
#13 |
| -
I think you'll be all right with this |
mainer |
May-05-11 04:52 PM |
#59 |
| -
Welcome to the club. |
tinrobot |
May-05-11 02:30 PM |
#6 |
| -
Can I ask what makes ebooks so expensive to create? |
Betty88 |
May-05-11 02:31 PM |
#7 |
| -
Theoretically, nothing. |
TheWraith |
May-05-11 02:49 PM |
#14 |
| -
Thank you |
Betty88 |
May-05-11 02:53 PM |
#16 |
| -
Very concise and good explanation! |
Spike89 |
May-05-11 03:55 PM |
#25 |
| -
If most of your costs are in distribution why not just offer it for free for download? |
Kurska |
May-06-11 02:08 AM |
#150 |
| -
Most of our costs are NOT in distribution |
Spike89 |
May-06-11 01:41 PM |
#172 |
| -
That logic only works for mass market books. |
tinrobot |
May-05-11 04:31 PM |
#42 |
| -
Again, please read the actual content of my post before responding. |
TheWraith |
May-05-11 04:44 PM |
#49 |
| -
I did read it. |
tinrobot |
May-05-11 04:58 PM |
#64 |
| -
You seem to have skipped the area where I made the entire point about market size. |
TheWraith |
May-05-11 05:03 PM |
#69 |
| -
Except for an author's labor for a year or more. |
mainer |
May-05-11 04:42 PM |
#47 |
| -
Maybe you should actually read my post. nt |
TheWraith |
May-05-11 04:43 PM |
#48 |
| -
"theoretically, nothing" |
mainer |
May-05-11 04:47 PM |
#54 |
| -
So you responded to the title without reading or understanding my point. Okay. nt |
TheWraith |
May-05-11 04:50 PM |
#57 |
| -
You need to look up marginal cost. All digital media has zero marginal cost... |
joshcryer |
May-06-11 01:48 AM |
#148 |
| -
Glad you asked... |
Spike89 |
May-05-11 03:23 PM |
#22 |
| -
Unfortunately, I cannot download the world's smallest violin... nt |
Modern_Matthew |
May-05-11 02:31 PM |
#8 |
| -
Right. Have you ever spent 4-6 months of your life writing a book... |
tinrobot |
May-05-11 02:32 PM |
#10 |
| -
Yet if they're reading it. . . |
themadstork |
May-05-11 04:20 PM |
#38 |
| -
A win for the reader, perhaps. |
tinrobot |
May-05-11 04:21 PM |
#39 |
| -
I write books to be read |
themadstork |
May-05-11 04:30 PM |
#41 |
| -
So you think some workers don't deserve to make a living? |
mainer |
May-05-11 04:49 PM |
#56 |
| -
Writing |
themadstork |
May-05-11 04:57 PM |
#63 |
| -
You can value yourself however you want. |
tinrobot |
May-05-11 04:51 PM |
#58 |
| -
People who work for free... |
mainer |
May-05-11 04:53 PM |
#60 |
| -
Sounds about right. |
tinrobot |
May-05-11 04:58 PM |
#65 |
| -
A nicely pithy statement. . . |
themadstork |
May-05-11 05:06 PM |
#71 |
| -
Making a living and striking it rich are two different things. |
tinrobot |
May-05-11 05:35 PM |
#90 |
| -
Poetry is a different kettle of fish. A very small audience. |
mainer |
May-05-11 08:50 PM |
#126 |
| -
It is precisely these areas in peril |
Spike89 |
May-06-11 01:58 PM |
#175 |
| -
It's not an ego boost |
themadstork |
May-05-11 05:01 PM |
#68 |
| -
I write to make a living. |
tinrobot |
May-05-11 05:28 PM |
#86 |
| -
I'm not saying you shouldn't be doing this |
themadstork |
May-05-11 05:37 PM |
#93 |
| -
Totally agree with you. |
tinrobot |
May-05-11 05:47 PM |
#102 |
| -
The industry used to be this place where only the most elite would get a publishing deal... |
joshcryer |
May-06-11 01:40 AM |
#146 |
| -
Well, there are still some editors that sell authentically great books at a loss for the prestige |
themadstork |
May-06-11 10:08 AM |
#163 |
| -
There is nothing good for a writer in having their material illegally obtained. |
mythology |
May-05-11 04:55 PM |
# |
| -
Being read is undeniably good for the writer. |
themadstork |
May-05-11 05:07 PM |
#73 |
| -
But being paid for it is what feeds him |
mainer |
May-05-11 05:38 PM |
#95 |
| -
Does not change the fact that being read is still good for him/her |
themadstork |
May-05-11 06:05 PM |
#108 |
| -
I'm sure you could... you'd simply try to get out of paying for it is all. |
LanternWaste |
May-05-11 03:11 PM |
#19 |
| -
Excuse me for finding humor in seeing this other thread right next to yours on page 1 |
Electric Monk |
May-05-11 02:32 PM |
#9 |
| -
Sorry. |
progressoid |
May-05-11 02:36 PM |
#11 |
| -
Which pirate site is it and what format is it in? Like a pdf or a special format? |
cbdo2007 |
May-05-11 03:15 PM |
#20 |
| -
Yeah, a cracked PDF, can't tell at a glance which format was |
Spike89 |
May-05-11 03:49 PM |
#23 |
| -
Also, have you checked their takedown policy? |
cbdo2007 |
May-05-11 03:54 PM |
#24 |
| -
Welcome to the club. It happens to every author. |
mainer |
May-05-11 03:20 PM |
#21 |
| -
"...most pirates don't really read the books... They just do it to be pirates. |
Leftist Agitator |
May-05-11 03:58 PM |
#27 |
| -
Thank you for |
Aerows |
May-05-11 04:05 PM |
#32 |
| -
It's what authors and publishers have noted to be true |
mainer |
May-05-11 04:38 PM |
#44 |
| -
And you think |
Aerows |
May-05-11 06:20 PM |
#112 |
| -
My point is that piracy doesn't matter as much anymore |
mainer |
May-05-11 08:40 PM |
#122 |
| -
Offer it at a fair price |
Aerows |
May-05-11 04:01 PM |
#30 |
| -
Like Wal-Mart prices? |
tinrobot |
May-05-11 05:00 PM |
#67 |
| -
It is hard to beat free |
Freddie Stubbs |
May-06-11 10:59 AM |
#168 |
| -
Keep writing |
Aerows |
May-05-11 03:58 PM |
#26 |
| -
You believe one necessarily denies the other? |
LanternWaste |
May-05-11 04:14 PM |
#35 |
| -
I don't |
Aerows |
May-05-11 04:18 PM |
#37 |
| -
Who other than the author determines if profit of creativity has the higher priority... |
LanternWaste |
May-05-11 05:12 PM |
#75 |
| -
I didn't direct the comment of |
Aerows |
May-05-11 05:19 PM |
#81 |
| -
Frustrated by justifying theft? Yes. Rather. |
LanternWaste |
May-05-11 05:23 PM |
#83 |
| -
I don't see it as theft |
Aerows |
May-05-11 05:32 PM |
#89 |
| -
I imagine we all justify our own sins to one degree or another... |
LanternWaste |
May-05-11 05:37 PM |
#94 |
| -
Justifying a sin? |
Aerows |
May-05-11 05:40 PM |
#98 |
| -
Yeah. Eventually I think 95% of all books will be sold at either pay-as-you-wish or |
themadstork |
May-05-11 04:26 PM |
#40 |
| -
I am too :) |
Aerows |
May-05-11 04:37 PM |
#43 |
| -
I think it's in the nature of books and reading to |
themadstork |
May-05-11 04:48 PM |
#55 |
| -
Wish there were a lot more people like you! |
mainer |
May-05-11 04:59 PM |
#66 |
| -
I've read things by amateurs |
Aerows |
May-05-11 05:16 PM |
#78 |
| -
Asmimov, Shakespeare, Dickens, Douglas Adams, HC Andersen, Sauraute, Golding, Kafka worked for free. |
LanternWaste |
May-05-11 05:31 PM |
#88 |
| -
Did they do it only for the money? |
Aerows |
May-05-11 05:36 PM |
#91 |
| -
You appear to be avoiding a question. |
LanternWaste |
May-05-11 05:38 PM |
#96 |
| -
I'm sure they did |
Aerows |
May-05-11 05:47 PM |
#103 |
| -
But everyone needs to eat. |
mainer |
May-05-11 05:39 PM |
#97 |
| -
And I guess |
Aerows |
May-05-11 05:43 PM |
#101 |
| -
No. But they do get paid for it. |
mainer |
May-05-11 08:54 PM |
#128 |
| -
You haven't read enough work by amateurs, then |
mainer |
May-05-11 08:51 PM |
#127 |
| -
Most professional work is dreadful. |
themadstork |
May-05-11 09:18 PM |
#130 |
| -
Most amateur work is even more dreadful |
mainer |
May-06-11 10:58 AM |
#167 |
| -
So true! Also true, 1/2 the "professionals" can barely write |
Spike89 |
May-06-11 04:21 PM |
#182 |
| -
I think there are |
themadstork |
May-05-11 05:16 PM |
#79 |
| -
This is quite true... |
Dappleganger |
May-05-11 05:37 PM |
#92 |
| -
Lemme jump in here |
timtom |
May-06-11 06:33 AM |
#152 |
| -
How do you make a living at it if you don't get paid? |
mainer |
May-05-11 04:40 PM |
#45 |
| -
I guess you want to be one of those "privileged" writers |
Aerows |
May-05-11 04:46 PM |
#52 |
| -
It's a "privilege" to be paid for one's labors? |
mainer |
May-05-11 04:55 PM |
#61 |
| -
I work my ass off |
Aerows |
May-05-11 05:13 PM |
#76 |
| -
What do you do for a living? |
Bluenorthwest |
May-05-11 05:07 PM |
#72 |
| -
I'm a writer first |
Aerows |
May-05-11 05:12 PM |
#74 |
| -
But your income, your profession, is engineering? |
Bluenorthwest |
May-05-11 05:17 PM |
#80 |
| -
Yes, to both |
Aerows |
May-05-11 05:20 PM |
#82 |
| -
And you should be aware that there is not a money earning artist |
Bluenorthwest |
May-05-11 05:50 PM |
#104 |
| -
I had a hard fight to even be an engineer |
Aerows |
May-05-11 06:05 PM |
#109 |
| -
There's also the fact that the "theft is theft" position is very much the pro-corporate position |
themadstork |
May-05-11 06:11 PM |
#110 |
| -
No, you are correct, my friend |
Aerows |
May-05-11 06:13 PM |
#111 |
| -
buddy |
Aerows |
May-05-11 06:55 PM |
#117 |
| -
Theft from me is theft from me |
mainer |
May-05-11 08:42 PM |
#123 |
| -
Conflating theft of goods with copyright infringement |
themadstork |
May-05-11 09:15 PM |
#129 |
| -
+1, the corporations love that normal citizens fall for this meme. |
joshcryer |
May-05-11 09:25 PM |
#135 |
| -
Yeah. I saw once where a middle school had a recording industry rep come in |
themadstork |
May-05-11 09:39 PM |
#138 |
| -
It is a pure invention, last 10-15 years or so. |
joshcryer |
May-05-11 09:56 PM |
#140 |
| -
I just got my first reuse fees for digital media this week. |
Bluenorthwest |
May-05-11 10:00 PM |
#141 |
| -
I would never take money from you. |
joshcryer |
May-06-11 01:34 AM |
#144 |
| -
And if you pirate a self-published e-book? |
mainer |
May-06-11 07:06 AM |
#154 |
| -
If you wanted your work to remain "yours," you should have kept it to yourself. |
themadstork |
May-06-11 10:25 AM |
#164 |
| -
Does the inventor of a new drug lose all rights to the formula? |
mainer |
May-06-11 10:49 AM |
#166 |
| -
That doesn't disprove anything I said. |
themadstork |
May-06-11 12:11 PM |
#169 |
| -
Because writing is the only work I can do? |
themadstork |
May-05-11 05:13 PM |
#77 |
| -
Thank you for expressing it so well |
Aerows |
May-05-11 05:25 PM |
#84 |
| -
Well, art isn't everything (though it is important!) |
Spike89 |
May-05-11 04:55 PM |
#62 |
| -
Huge fallacy to think most writing is fiction/mass market |
Spike89 |
May-05-11 06:21 PM |
#113 |
| -
The same rules apply though |
themadstork |
May-05-11 06:33 PM |
#116 |
| -
So you're offered the product at a price or for free (stolen) |
mainer |
May-05-11 08:44 PM |
#124 |
| -
Make a really good product. Treat people well. Stay involved in the specialist community. |
themadstork |
May-05-11 09:33 PM |
#136 |
| -
Better idea: write until your fucking fingers fall off. Write so much about so much... |
joshcryer |
May-06-11 01:36 AM |
#145 |
| -
Write your fingers off for free? |
mainer |
May-06-11 07:11 AM |
#155 |
| -
It's also the nature of freelance writing. |
themadstork |
May-06-11 09:58 AM |
#162 |
| -
I make my living as a writer. Of course I understand its economy. |
mainer |
May-06-11 10:45 AM |
#165 |
| -
Welcome to the 21st century musician's and filmmaker's world. |
MilesColtrane |
May-05-11 03:59 PM |
#28 |
| -
Or you could have Neil Gaiman's outlook on piracy. |
Dappleganger |
May-05-11 04:04 PM |
#31 |
| -
It's the focus on the short term |
Aerows |
May-05-11 04:17 PM |
#36 |
| -
Gaiman is also a fabulously wealthy author who has sold many |
Bluenorthwest |
May-05-11 05:03 PM |
#70 |
| -
That's what you got out of what I posted? |
Aerows |
May-05-11 05:27 PM |
#85 |
| -
Wow. |
Dappleganger |
May-05-11 05:30 PM |
#87 |
| -
I'm not talking about him, I am talking about using him as an |
Bluenorthwest |
May-05-11 06:25 PM |
#114 |
| -
There are authors on Amazon who are making thousands of dollars... |
joshcryer |
May-05-11 09:19 PM |
#131 |
| -
I'm not a writer for a living. |
Bluenorthwest |
May-05-11 10:29 PM |
#142 |
| -
No, they got lucky. Look at Amanda Hocking. |
joshcryer |
May-06-11 01:30 AM |
#143 |
| -
Report it here |
geardaddy |
May-05-11 04:40 PM |
#46 |
| -
Trying to take them down is like whack-a-mole |
mainer |
May-05-11 04:46 PM |
#51 |
| -
So how is a pirated ebook any different than... |
Lucian |
May-05-11 05:43 PM |
#100 |
| -
Thank you |
Aerows |
May-05-11 05:51 PM |
#105 |
| -
You should go to jail you thief! |
Lucian |
May-05-11 05:57 PM |
#106 |
| -
Oh, you want value loss? How about buying books from a library? |
joshcryer |
May-05-11 09:24 PM |
#134 |
| -
This is a great example of how in the book world tremendous intellectual/artistic value can be |
themadstork |
May-05-11 09:45 PM |
#139 |
| -
Yeah, from my POV the more people I touch the better, it has nothing to do with profits. |
joshcryer |
May-06-11 01:44 AM |
#147 |
| -
Fine. You're free to give it away. No one's stopping you. |
mainer |
May-06-11 07:13 AM |
#156 |
| -
Well for starters...you bought the book |
Spike89 |
May-05-11 06:32 PM |
#115 |
| -
What if I took said hypothetical book... |
Lucian |
May-05-11 07:16 PM |
#119 |
| -
Actually that would be infringement. |
joshcryer |
May-05-11 09:21 PM |
#133 |
| -
hehe. I do the bookstore thing all the time. |
themadstork |
May-05-11 09:37 PM |
#137 |
| -
Yes. That is not a grey area at all. n/t |
BzaDem |
May-06-11 01:50 AM |
#149 |
| -
Not if each 7 billion people legally made a copy of said book. |
joshcryer |
May-05-11 09:21 PM |
#132 |
| -
You know there's a lot of sites claiming lots of really good free downloads, except if you actually |
Shagbark Hickory |
May-05-11 06:00 PM |
#107 |
| -
What about books I have moldering away up in the attic |
Puglover |
May-05-11 07:37 PM |
#120 |
| -
It certainly is not wrong. |
Mariana |
May-06-11 03:11 PM |
#176 |
| -
But you bought a VHS tape, |
Codeine |
May-06-11 03:59 PM |
#179 |
| -
To be honest, yeah, wrong, but grey area |
Spike89 |
May-06-11 03:54 PM |
#178 |
| -
Hmm...you're right. Hawaii isn't available. |
MineralMan |
May-06-11 04:01 PM |
#181 |
| -
What kind of book is it and who is the intended audience? |
octothorpe |
May-06-11 08:12 AM |
#157 |
| -
I don't understand why e-books would cost you so much to distribute. |
fasttense |
May-06-11 08:35 AM |
#159 |
| -
Answered above, but here it goes again... |
Spike89 |
May-06-11 03:36 PM |
#177 |
| -
This is such an informative thread--I'm a writer/publisher and my press will be releasing |
Mrs. Overall |
May-06-11 09:47 AM |
#160 |
| -
Thanks, and good luck to you and your publishing adventure! nt |
Spike89 |
May-06-11 01:07 PM |
#170 |
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