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Reply #102: Until it passes, then it is coat hangers and blood. [View All]

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MNDemNY Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-13-09 12:00 PM
Response to Reply #69
102. Until it passes, then it is coat hangers and blood.
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  -Obama triumph ahead babylonsister  Nov-12-09 02:21 PM   #0 
  - k & r  HopeOverFear   Nov-12-09 02:22 PM   #1 
  - Will you still support the HCR bill if the Stupak language remains in the final bill?  MNDemNY   Nov-12-09 02:23 PM   #2 
  - I'm optimistic it will be removed. nt  babylonsister   Nov-12-09 02:27 PM   #3 
  - But that, as you know , was not the question.  MNDemNY   Nov-12-09 02:55 PM   #5 
  - Yes I will; it will still help loads of people, and selfishly,  babylonsister   Nov-12-09 03:04 PM   #7 
     - It is brave of you to admit that ...  MNDemNY   Nov-12-09 03:31 PM   #10 
     - Thanks for the lecture; coming from you it's positively laughable. nt  babylonsister   Nov-12-09 03:33 PM   #11 
     - You are the one willing to delegate 50 years of fighting for womens rights to the scrap heap.  MNDemNY   Nov-12-09 03:36 PM   #13 
        - I guess that makes you the one sentencing those without health insurance to death  DrToast   Nov-12-09 03:58 PM   #16 
        - Trading one groups civil rights for another's? No not me, that would be you.  MNDemNY   Nov-12-09 04:01 PM   #17 
           - We all hope the Stupak language is removed, but if it's not  ecstatic   Nov-12-09 05:44 PM   #29 
              - Bullshit.  MNDemNY   Nov-12-09 06:38 PM   #33 
              - I am a woman who has spent 98% of my life uninsured,  ecstatic   Nov-12-09 06:54 PM   #34 
              - Apparently only your opinion matters.  MNDemNY   Nov-12-09 07:59 PM   #39 
                 - In other words, this isn't about choice. This is about your hatred for the insurance industry  ecstatic   Nov-12-09 08:04 PM   #42 
                 - I will lecture you, or any other Faux Democrat who shills this bill.  MNDemNY   Nov-12-09 08:10 PM   #44 
                 - If a "faux Democrat" = someone with a pre-existing condition then guilty as charged  ecstatic   Nov-12-09 08:28 PM   #45 
                 - Exactly what, and who's rights are you willing to trade for less than mediocre health coverage?  MNDemNY   Nov-12-09 09:11 PM   #49 
                 - I am a Real Democrat with a preexisting condition and I will NOT support this Bill if Stupak is not  saracat   Nov-13-09 02:14 PM   #128 
                 - Deleted message  Name removed   Nov-12-09 09:05 PM   #47 
                 - God is in fact , fiction, therefore he could not be an asshole.  MNDemNY   Nov-12-09 09:09 PM   #48 
                 - This health care bill is a nice piece of "speculative fiction" is it not?  MNDemNY   Nov-12-09 09:27 PM   #51 
                 - So lets talk about the amendment, - again  demwing   Nov-13-09 06:02 AM   #56 
                    - Really? Defend it please.  MNDemNY   Nov-13-09 07:01 AM   #60 
                       - Let's be specific  demwing   Nov-13-09 10:53 AM   #83 
                          - It in ,effect does just that.  MNDemNY   Nov-13-09 11:45 AM   #92 
                          - That's correct  demwing   Nov-13-09 04:26 PM   #158 
                 - The bill doesn't require insurance cos. to cover birth control.  Hello_Kitty   Nov-13-09 10:56 PM   #165 
                 - As a female who will probably be helped by this bill, I oppose it  Tansy_Gold   Nov-13-09 02:23 PM   #130 
                    - Right on.  MNDemNY   Nov-13-09 03:57 PM   #147 
                    - Hi Tansy Gold. Beautifully stated, as always!  saracat   Nov-15-09 02:04 PM   #169 
              - Coming from a male-laughable. nt  babylonsister   Nov-12-09 07:37 PM   #36 
                 - You support the Bill with the stupak amendment.  MNDemNY   Nov-12-09 07:52 PM   #38 
                 - No, I care about millions of people who will be covered under the bill  babylonsister   Nov-12-09 08:00 PM   #40 
                    - But you are OK with the Stupak amendment.  MNDemNY   Nov-12-09 08:06 PM   #43 
                    - Just be sure and let folks know what YOU think.  MNDemNY   Nov-13-09 09:30 AM   #68 
                 - So if it came from a woman you would take it seriously? Gender biased much? n/t  poverlay   Nov-13-09 09:29 AM   #67 
              - Than this bill? Yes. I CAN elaborate, but I'm presently busy drinking a beer.  pattmarty   Nov-13-09 11:52 AM   #97 
        - Touche.  timeforpeace   Nov-12-09 05:16 PM   #23 
        - 50? More like 50,000  elehhhhna   Nov-12-09 05:22 PM   #24 
        - Deleted message  Name removed   Nov-13-09 06:51 AM   #59 
        - i find it hillarious, that in order to rationalize that you guys are a tiny minority on this board,  dionysus   Nov-13-09 08:34 AM   #65 
           - Minority? Do you seriously think the majority of Democrats on this board think  saracat   Nov-13-09 01:56 PM   #123 
              - no, no one here thinks the stupak ammendment is good. however, most, at least many,  dionysus   Nov-13-09 02:48 PM   #138 
                 - Many of us understand that it is much worse than an extension of the Hyde Amendment  saracat   Nov-13-09 03:46 PM   #143 
        - hyperbole fail.  dionysus   Nov-13-09 08:31 AM   #64 
        - Let's be clear. Those 50 years of fighting are not in danger of being consigned to the scrap heap.  stopbush   Nov-13-09 03:05 PM   #139 
     - Exactly  spiritual_gunfighter   Nov-13-09 06:12 AM   #57 
     - Are you aware that people with pre-existing conditions can be charged higher premiums  Garam_Masala   Nov-13-09 01:04 PM   #112 
  - Hi babylonsister ~ I like your style  goclark   Nov-13-09 01:47 PM   #120 
  - No. And people I trust say they are going to get it out. Harkin, Clyburne, etc Additionally I  emulatorloo   Nov-12-09 05:05 PM   #21 
  - But it seems that the 'bishops" have a direct line to the "hill".  MNDemNY   Nov-12-09 05:13 PM   #22 
     - Well then we disagree. Only 30ish Dems voted for it in the house.  emulatorloo   Nov-12-09 05:26 PM   #25 
        - You underestimate the strength of this stalking-horse.  MNDemNY   Nov-13-09 09:19 AM   #66 
  - The Stupak amendment did exactly what it was designed to do; shift our  Lorien   Nov-13-09 09:44 AM   #69 
     - Until it passes, then it is coat hangers and blood.  MNDemNY   Nov-13-09 12:00 PM   #102 
        - You're fucking ridiculous  Egnever   Nov-13-09 03:41 PM   #141 
           - Deleted message  Name removed   Nov-13-09 10:34 PM   #164 
  - K & R  Tigermoose   Nov-12-09 02:48 PM   #4 
  - It's so cool to know who the OP is just by the title of a thread!  timeforpeace   Nov-12-09 10:46 PM   #52 
  - People don't seem to realize that  ProSense   Nov-12-09 03:03 PM   #6 
  - I realize that; this bill is far from perfect, but it's very important to  babylonsister   Nov-12-09 03:06 PM   #8 
  - How about you, ProSense? Are you willing to answer "the question"  MNDemNY   Nov-12-09 03:34 PM   #12 
     - I am willing to choose to support the bill with the Stupak amendment  27inCali   Nov-12-09 05:39 PM   #27 
        - Don't care what you think, even though that line is crap.(You really should re-think that)  MNDemNY   Nov-12-09 09:21 PM   #50 
           - man, you're rude to everybody, aren't you? you sure must be fun to hang out with.  dionysus   Nov-13-09 09:53 AM   #73 
           - Keep "rolling" it's easier to "take it" when your already on the floor.  MNDemNY   Nov-13-09 10:01 AM   #77 
           - Cough, Ahem. You really aren't in any position to make that charge  saracat   Nov-13-09 01:58 PM   #124 
           - "Apparently only your opinion matters."  Qutzupalotl   Nov-13-09 11:23 AM   #86 
              - too bad the question was directed to another.  MNDemNY   Nov-13-09 11:50 AM   #95 
                 - Thanks for proving my point.  Qutzupalotl   Nov-13-09 12:39 PM   #109 
                    - ask a question, I'll answer, spout "points" I'll do as I wish.  MNDemNY   Nov-13-09 01:46 PM   #118 
  - Well, that's a day-brightener. Thank you, babs. It gives me hope we can even get rid of Stupak...  Hekate   Nov-12-09 03:08 PM   #9 
  - But that does not really matter, does it?  MNDemNY   Nov-12-09 03:39 PM   #14 
  - Nice Post  Roosesvelte   Nov-12-09 03:52 PM   #15 
  - I hope so, and welcome to DU Roosesvelte!  babylonsister   Nov-12-09 04:02 PM   #18 
     - Thanks!  Roosesvelte   Nov-12-09 04:23 PM   #19 
  - This is a CLASSIC example of what's wrong with America- and why you're headed for 3rd world status  depakid   Nov-12-09 04:30 PM   #20 
  - "This debate (and others) ought to be about effective public policy- but it's not."  ProSense   Nov-12-09 05:28 PM   #26 
  - Nope- for most ordinary people and the corporate media that sways them it's- he won she lost  depakid   Nov-12-09 05:43 PM   #28 
     - Telling, your point really isn't about how seriously people took the discussion, but  ProSense   Nov-12-09 06:14 PM   #30 
        - You're getting lousy policy and all the VAST majority cares about is who "won" and "lost"  depakid   Nov-12-09 06:22 PM   #31 
           - Lousy is your opinion. n/t  ProSense   Nov-12-09 06:58 PM   #35 
              - No thems the facts.  MNDemNY   Nov-12-09 08:01 PM   #41 
                 - No, ProSense is correct. The legislation is good enough for a start.  stevietheman   Nov-13-09 12:08 AM   #53 
                 - bull.  MNDemNY   Nov-13-09 07:02 AM   #62 
                 - I realize it  spiritual_gunfighter   Nov-13-09 06:17 AM   #58 
                    - Lap dogs.  MNDemNY   Nov-13-09 07:02 AM   #61 
  - Yep. In the end we see no positive changes. The corporations just  Lorien   Nov-13-09 09:47 AM   #70 
  - The President said in no uncertain terms that the health bill "would not fund abortion."  mistertrickster   Nov-12-09 06:27 PM   #32 
  - Does it cover Viagra?  1corona4u   Nov-13-09 05:52 AM   #55 
  - Deleted message  Name removed   Nov-13-09 07:03 AM   #63 
  - I live in Wichita. I used to protest in front of now dead George Tiller's clinic against the antis.  mistertrickster   Nov-13-09 09:48 AM   #71 
     - i'm starting to think these guys don't even give a rat's ass about the ammendment. i think it's  dionysus   Nov-13-09 09:52 AM   #72 
     - Your are foolish.  MNDemNY   Nov-13-09 10:00 AM   #75 
        - no, i'd rather save lives while you wait for a perfect bill that will never exist.  dionysus   Nov-13-09 10:24 AM   #80 
           - How much worse can it get and still win your support?? (Real question)  MNDemNY   Nov-13-09 11:24 AM   #87 
              - if the senate can't get a public option, i'd say it's not worth the effort.  dionysus   Nov-13-09 11:34 AM   #89 
                 - Triggered?? Opt out?? Co-ops??  MNDemNY   Nov-13-09 11:39 AM   #90 
                    - triggers never get triggered, co-opts don't have a big enough pool to be good.  dionysus   Nov-13-09 11:44 AM   #91 
                       - But you would be OK with a veto? how is that materially different from my position?  MNDemNY   Nov-13-09 11:47 AM   #94 
                          - i believe it's different in that you think the house bill with it's imperfect public option is worse  dionysus   Nov-13-09 11:52 AM   #98 
                             - We have a difference in the threshold of when a bill is "not worth the bother"  MNDemNY   Nov-13-09 11:57 AM   #100 
                                - well, in my opinion, the letting people die thing happens if a bill WITH a public option, albeit  dionysus   Nov-13-09 12:03 PM   #103 
                                   - and i say there a still needless deaths with the House bill.  MNDemNY   Nov-13-09 12:08 PM   #106 
                                      - i am pragmatic or cynical enough not to be satisfied with, but at least thankful for, anything good  dionysus   Nov-13-09 12:31 PM   #108 
                                         - "the political climate we have" ?????  MNDemNY   Nov-13-09 01:50 PM   #121 
                                            - we have blue dogs and house members that were too bought off or  dionysus   Nov-13-09 02:24 PM   #132 
                                               - My point is that a push to change that fact is a winning strategy.  MNDemNY   Nov-13-09 02:27 PM   #133 
                                               - i agree that single payer is the way to go. if we could get congress to vote the way they should  dionysus   Nov-13-09 02:32 PM   #134 
                                               - Push for it and change congress. If not now, when?  MNDemNY   Nov-13-09 02:35 PM   #135 
                                               - i wholehearted agree we need better dems in office. we also need to educate the voters in  dionysus   Nov-13-09 02:44 PM   #137 
                                               - Why are we arguing?  MNDemNY   Nov-13-09 03:47 PM   #144 
                                               - um... cause it's GD:P!!111  dionysus   Nov-13-09 07:09 PM   #162 
     - The stupak bill goes too far.  MNDemNY   Nov-13-09 09:56 AM   #74 
  - He said federal funds would not be used to fund abortion  laughingliberal   Nov-13-09 01:40 PM   #117 
     - No, it doesn't do that at all  demwing   Nov-13-09 04:29 PM   #160 
  - It's not a great bill - but I do hope it's seen as a triumph for Obama. nt  polichick   Nov-12-09 07:49 PM   #37 
  - Thanks babylonsister for  Cha   Nov-12-09 08:58 PM   #46 
  - Cosgrove at Cleveland Clinic says it will do little to control escalating costs.  Kolesar   Nov-13-09 05:05 AM   #54 
  - That is irrelevant, we need a "win"  MNDemNY   Nov-13-09 10:00 AM   #76 
  - For the most part, I'll stay out of the line of fire in this thread.  Altoid_Cyclist   Nov-13-09 12:11 PM   #107 
  - I love this article, babylonsister. Very cool.  BlancheSplanchnik   Nov-13-09 10:07 AM   #78 
  - And he's proud of this?  Beacool   Nov-13-09 10:07 AM   #79 
  - Unlike some, he isn't a bitter sore loser when it comes to supporting HCR & the President.  ClarkUSA   Nov-13-09 04:10 PM   #153 
  - The easily fooled are the enemy of the good and right thing to do. n/t  change_notfinetuning   Nov-13-09 10:34 AM   #81 
  - The traveler in casual shoes offers nothing to the drifting ambergris. n/t  NYC_SKP   Nov-13-09 11:00 AM   #84 
  - Thank You Babylonsiter for this article and viewpoint.  stubtoe   Nov-13-09 10:51 AM   #82 
  - Obama triumph ahead  Andronex   Nov-13-09 11:16 AM   #85 
  - Very good point. That is the heart of the problem.We need real health care  saracat   Nov-13-09 02:23 PM   #131 
  - And the insurance industry hates the bill  ProSense   Nov-13-09 11:29 AM   #88 
  - ProSense loves it, even with the Stupak language.  MNDemNY   Nov-13-09 12:05 PM   #104 
  - INSURANCE INDUSTRY: don't throw me in the briar patch  frylock   Nov-13-09 01:35 PM   #116 
  - Yeah, sure. The "triumph" will be; pass a shit bill and declare victory.  pattmarty   Nov-13-09 11:46 AM   #93 
  - But the Rose Garden ceremony will be wonderful!!!  MNDemNY   Nov-13-09 11:51 AM   #96 
     - I hope they hang around to help with the 2010 and 2012 elections..........  pattmarty   Nov-13-09 11:57 AM   #99 
        - I do not understand why "we" do not see that STRONG HCR, yes, even Single Payer. Is a WINNING issue!  MNDemNY   Nov-13-09 11:58 AM   #101 
           - I'll disagree on the single payer issue. Where we are at NOW..........  pattmarty   Nov-13-09 12:06 PM   #105 
              - List for me the 218 reps and 60 Senators that would ever conceivably vote for Medicare for All.  Nicholas D Wolfwood   Nov-13-09 12:45 PM   #110 
              - I think pushing it in the 2012 midterms is a winning play.  MNDemNY   Nov-13-09 02:04 PM   #126 
  - I agree with this . . .  h9socialist   Nov-13-09 12:54 PM   #111 
  - I take issue with this statement  peace frog   Nov-13-09 01:04 PM   #113 
  - "Obama triumph ahead"  unaffiliated liberal   Nov-13-09 01:06 PM   #114 
  - +1  jgraz   Nov-13-09 02:07 PM   #127 
  - But is getting a bad bill passed really that great?  winyanstaz   Nov-13-09 01:32 PM   #115 
  - It is if all you care about is politics  jgraz   Nov-13-09 02:02 PM   #125 
     - thats what I think too..  winyanstaz   Nov-13-09 03:08 PM   #140 
  - The victory is very important as it springboards the ability for Pres. Obama to get more things done  ProgressOnTheMove   Nov-13-09 01:47 PM   #119 
  - And unicorns will once again inhabit the earth.  MNDemNY   Nov-13-09 01:54 PM   #122 
  - More "reform" done badly?  unaffiliated liberal   Nov-13-09 02:16 PM   #129 
  - What does an abortion procedure cost these days? I'd imagine it's around $500.  stopbush   Nov-13-09 02:39 PM   #136 
  - You have a point?  MNDemNY   Nov-13-09 03:45 PM   #142 
     - Maybe. You have an answer to my question?  stopbush   Nov-13-09 03:47 PM   #145 
        - For the sake of discussion. $500.00  MNDemNY   Nov-13-09 03:48 PM   #146 
           - For the sake of discussion, you're willing to scuttle providing insurance  stopbush   Nov-13-09 03:59 PM   #148 
           - Yes, but the point is the rollback of hard fought rights.  MNDemNY   Nov-13-09 04:04 PM   #150 
              - Why do you consider government subsidy of abortion a "right?"  stopbush   Nov-13-09 04:15 PM   #154 
                 - Only women who can afford an abortion should have that right?  MNDemNY   Nov-13-09 04:19 PM   #155 
                    - Logic and reality escape you.  stopbush   Nov-13-09 06:59 PM   #161 
           - For the sake of women  unaffiliated liberal   Nov-13-09 04:00 PM   #149 
              - I'm with you! Don't holler at me!  MNDemNY   Nov-13-09 04:06 PM   #151 
              - What happens today with life-saving treatments that the uninsured receive?  stopbush   Nov-13-09 04:09 PM   #152 
                 - Back under your rock.  MNDemNY   Nov-13-09 04:21 PM   #156 
                 - I am so weary of the argument that hospitals have to provide life saving treatment  laughingliberal   Nov-13-09 07:34 PM   #163 
  - The Pukes, abetted by Stupak, WANTED to cause this argument...  freddie mertz   Nov-13-09 04:22 PM   #157 
  - Why is irrelevant at this point.  MNDemNY   Nov-13-09 04:26 PM   #159 
     - Of course, I agree completely. Dem leadership got trumped...  freddie mertz   Nov-14-09 02:28 PM   #168 
  - Kick  Hekate   Nov-13-09 10:56 PM   #166 
  - K&R  akbacchus_BC   Nov-14-09 12:27 AM   #167 

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