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Reply #121: You know less about English that you do about Economics.... [View All]

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Home » Discuss » General Discussion: Presidency Donate to DU
Jeff In Milwaukee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-24-09 02:07 PM
Response to Reply #118
121. You know less about English that you do about Economics....
"Typically" is not a strawman, it's a qualifier. Does EVERY employer-provided plan have a reasonably low deductible? No, but most of them do. Does EVERY person who self-insures purchase or low-deductible plan or a high-deductible plan with an HSA? No, but most of them do.

And since you have no idea what the deductible is on these plans that people may (or may) purchase at some point in the future -- neither do I -- you're really blowing smoke when you say that these plans aren't affordable because of their high deductions.

And then there's this, and please try to have an honest moment as you answer. Which is better?

No Insurance. Chronic, untreated illness. Disability and premature death.
No Insurance. Successful treament followed by bankruptcy and foreclosure.
Low-End Insurance. $10,000 in medical bills. Survival.

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  -You're The President -- It's Your Choice Jeff In Milwaukee  Dec-23-09 09:11 AM   #0 
  - #3 - Grow a pair and quit fellating Joe Lieberman.  VMI Dem   Dec-23-09 09:13 AM   #1 
  - !!!  racaulk   Dec-23-09 09:14 AM   #2 
  - Not very presidential of you...  Jeff In Milwaukee   Dec-23-09 09:17 AM   #5 
  - Oh, see that explains it...  ElboRuum   Dec-23-09 09:20 AM   #9 
  - If I were Van Gogh I'd kick your ass for that comparison!  Jeff In Milwaukee   Dec-23-09 09:23 AM   #10 
     - Why, was he a friend of DaVinci?  ElboRuum   Dec-23-09 09:24 AM   #13 
        - Oops!  Jeff In Milwaukee   Dec-23-09 09:26 AM   #14 
           - Now THAT I can believe.  ElboRuum   Dec-23-09 09:31 AM   #15 
  - + A Brazillion.  jgraz   Dec-24-09 12:32 AM   #90 
  - Fight for the best bill you can get before caving to the shills.  freddie mertz   Dec-23-09 09:15 AM   #3 
  - See Post #7 (nt)  Jeff In Milwaukee   Dec-23-09 09:19 AM   #8 
  - Third Choice: Get back out there and fight loudly and proudly for a worthwhile bill.  Tailormyst   Dec-23-09 09:16 AM   #4 
  - Not an option...  Jeff In Milwaukee   Dec-23-09 09:18 AM   #7 
  - Actually, if you do actually manage to create a time machine...  ElboRuum   Dec-23-09 09:23 AM   #11 
  - Kaboom!  Jeff In Milwaukee   Dec-23-09 09:24 AM   #12 
  - Maybe the time machine has been invented (will be?) but the travelers have (wisely) decided  T Wolf   Dec-23-09 10:33 AM   #19 
  - A time machine might not have been nececessary if he'd aggressively campaigned the first time  Armstead   Dec-23-09 10:42 AM   #20 
  - Sure you do  Lydia Leftcoast   Dec-23-09 11:32 AM   #22 
     - No Cop Outs Today...  Jeff In Milwaukee   Dec-23-09 11:34 AM   #23 
        - In the real world, as opposed to freshman philosophy class, there are usually more  Lydia Leftcoast   Dec-23-09 01:47 PM   #36 
           - What real world do you live in?  Jeff In Milwaukee   Dec-23-09 01:53 PM   #37 
              - Don't sign it and tell Congress that they have to reform health care,  Lydia Leftcoast   Dec-23-09 02:00 PM   #40 
                 - In the time it took to reply to your post, an uninsured person died...  Jeff In Milwaukee   Dec-23-09 02:08 PM   #42 
                    - And signing this bill won't help any of the people who will die before New Year's Day  Lydia Leftcoast   Dec-23-09 02:17 PM   #45 
                       - You tried that canard once today, Lydia...  Jeff In Milwaukee   Dec-23-09 02:23 PM   #47 
                          - Nope, it's the lack of AFFORDABLE insurance  Lydia Leftcoast   Dec-23-09 02:29 PM   #51 
                             - Aside from the illogic...  Jeff In Milwaukee   Dec-23-09 02:42 PM   #55 
                                - To take your points one by one:  Lydia Leftcoast   Dec-23-09 02:55 PM   #60 
                                   - Do some more research  Jeff In Milwaukee   Dec-23-09 03:28 PM   #74 
  - Yes, that will change the mind of Lieberman and Nelson as if they care...very rational post  uponit7771   Dec-23-09 09:47 AM   #17 
     - You guys act as if Lieberman and Nelson were threatening to bring  Lydia Leftcoast   Dec-23-09 02:03 PM   #41 
  - Take a deep breath and sign it. nt  Captain Hilts   Dec-23-09 09:17 AM   #6 
  - Sign the bill. Then on Jan 1 start campaigning - yes CAMPAIGNING to fix it.  baldguy   Dec-23-09 09:46 AM   #16 
  - Slacker!  Jeff In Milwaukee   Dec-23-09 09:49 AM   #18 
  - yes, sign it and then make the necessary changes.  bdamomma   Dec-23-09 02:14 PM   #44 
  - Straw man: Most of the bill doesn't go into effect for three or four years  Lydia Leftcoast   Dec-23-09 11:31 AM   #21 
  - See Post #23  Jeff In Milwaukee   Dec-23-09 11:35 AM   #24 
  - Because it will take 3-4 years to implement no matter when it  johnaries   Dec-23-09 11:38 AM   #25 
  - He should sign it. But he shouldn't pretend it was everything he campaigned on  Orangepeel   Dec-23-09 11:46 AM   #26 
  - c) Let it become law without signing it  krispos42   Dec-23-09 12:05 PM   #27 
  - You Mods -- you read EVERY thread on this board!  Jeff In Milwaukee   Dec-23-09 12:12 PM   #28 
  - ;-)  krispos42   Dec-23-09 12:35 PM   #32 
     - Perhaps a "Non-Signing Ceremony" at the White House...  Jeff In Milwaukee   Dec-23-09 01:08 PM   #33 
  - That's something that should definitely be considered  Hippo_Tron   Dec-23-09 04:58 PM   #81 
  - c. Sign it... then signing statement the crap out of it W style.  Exultant Democracy   Dec-23-09 12:14 PM   #29 
  - That's a REALLY interesting idea...  Jeff In Milwaukee   Dec-23-09 12:22 PM   #31 
  - current:22% healthcare industry disruptors  mkultra   Dec-23-09 12:18 PM   #30 
  - WRONG  Lydia Leftcoast   Dec-23-09 01:45 PM   #35 
     - How many people die?  Jeff In Milwaukee   Dec-23-09 01:58 PM   #38 
        - This bill doesn't guarantee ANYONE health care  Lydia Leftcoast   Dec-23-09 02:25 PM   #48 
           - You haven't actually read this legislation, have you?  Jeff In Milwaukee   Dec-23-09 02:40 PM   #54 
              - I've read the Kaiser Family Foundation's side-by-side summaries  Lydia Leftcoast   Dec-23-09 03:09 PM   #68 
  - This bill contains exactly what Obama wanted and nothing he was actually opposed to.  Better Believe It   Dec-23-09 01:23 PM   #34 
  - Bogus choices  depakid   Dec-23-09 02:00 PM   #39 
  - Those are the actual choices  Jeff In Milwaukee   Dec-23-09 02:10 PM   #43 
  - Enough already with this "people will die" talking point  Lydia Leftcoast   Dec-23-09 02:27 PM   #50 
  - Does that make you uncomfortable?  Jeff In Milwaukee   Dec-23-09 02:46 PM   #56 
     - So you think that providing (or mandating) junk insurance that people can't afford to use  depakid   Dec-23-09 02:58 PM   #62 
     - I keep hearing that term...  Jeff In Milwaukee   Dec-23-09 03:08 PM   #67 
     - I want to do the right thing, too  Lydia Leftcoast   Dec-23-09 02:59 PM   #63 
        - I know you do  Jeff In Milwaukee   Dec-23-09 03:34 PM   #76 
  - Acceptance of false choices and innacurate framing is one of the prime reasons  depakid   Dec-23-09 02:39 PM   #53 
     - A Failing State?  Jeff In Milwaukee   Dec-23-09 02:54 PM   #59 
        - Depakid lived in Portland for at least some time, which is where I met him  Lydia Leftcoast   Dec-23-09 03:07 PM   #65 
  - It's the tyranny of low expectations  Lydia Leftcoast   Dec-23-09 02:19 PM   #46 
     - I don't expect you to like it...  Jeff In Milwaukee   Dec-23-09 02:26 PM   #49 
        - If you can show me how this gets them AFFORDABLE insurance  Lydia Leftcoast   Dec-23-09 02:31 PM   #52 
           - A policy wonk would grasp that the major effects are similar to the Enzi bill  depakid   Dec-23-09 02:51 PM   #57 
           - I assume you didn't read what you just posted...  Jeff In Milwaukee   Dec-23-09 03:03 PM   #64 
              - The main effects are the same  depakid   Dec-23-09 03:12 PM   #70 
                 - They're not even remotely related....  Jeff In Milwaukee   Dec-23-09 03:17 PM   #73 
                    - Oh. please  depakid   Dec-23-09 03:32 PM   #75 
           - It's Not All About The Money!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  Droogie666   Dec-23-09 02:51 PM   #58 
           - I'm 48 years old and I work in the healthcare industry...  Jeff In Milwaukee   Dec-23-09 02:56 PM   #61 
              - If that's true, then you ought to recognize  depakid   Dec-23-09 03:07 PM   #66 
                 - That's quite a grasp of the obvious you've got there...  Jeff In Milwaukee   Dec-23-09 03:13 PM   #71 
  - Fuck ideology, hold your nose and sign the bill, then do everything in your power to improve it.  DailyGrind51   Dec-23-09 03:10 PM   #69 
  - But wait! I thought we couldn't revist the legislation for a decade?  depakid   Dec-23-09 03:16 PM   #72 
     - Because "Reconciliation" will only deal with the budgetary aspects of the Bill!  DailyGrind51   Dec-23-09 06:21 PM   #85 
  - I wouldn't have to hold my nose to sign the bill. n/t  quiller4   Dec-23-09 04:12 PM   #77 
  - If I were President I would have pushed for Medicare for all  IndianaGreen   Dec-23-09 04:23 PM   #78 
  - One thing you overlook  DonCoquixote   Dec-24-09 02:27 PM   #130 
  - I've got a question for veto voters: what kind of "progressive" just writes off 45,000 human beings?  apocalypsehow   Dec-23-09 04:46 PM   #79 
  - Oh Snap!  Jeff In Milwaukee   Dec-23-09 04:52 PM   #80 
  - Good post.  bigwillq   Dec-23-09 04:59 PM   #83 
  - How many will die between now and 2014?  bigwillq   Dec-23-09 04:58 PM   #82 
  - See #88. n/t  Greyhound   Dec-23-09 11:33 PM   #89 
  - Deleted sub-thread  Name removed   Dec-24-09 12:36 AM   #91 
  - On what ideological principles would he veto it? Killing poor people?  Scarsdale Vibe   Dec-23-09 05:26 PM   #84 
  - Poorly worded on my part...  Jeff In Milwaukee   Dec-23-09 06:28 PM   #86 
     - 1 trillion dollars every 5 years  grahamhgreen   Dec-24-09 12:43 AM   #93 
        - Does nobody on this board every actually read and stuff?  Jeff In Milwaukee   Dec-24-09 10:10 AM   #98 
  - I'd torture the prisoner, of course.  Iggo   Dec-23-09 11:05 PM   #87 
  - And THEN give him full medical!  grahamhgreen   Dec-24-09 12:44 AM   #94 
     - lol...nice one!  Iggo   Dec-24-09 12:54 AM   #95 
  - Other. I'd pocket veto this monstrosity and  Greyhound   Dec-23-09 11:30 PM   #88 
  - Can't be done  Jeff In Milwaukee   Dec-24-09 10:05 AM   #96 
     - The executive order can indeed open Medicare up  Greyhound   Dec-24-09 12:10 PM   #102 
        - Must be nice to live in your world....  Jeff In Milwaukee   Dec-24-09 12:51 PM   #104 
           - No of course not. FDR did nothing but sit on his ass for years letting those  Greyhound   Dec-24-09 01:00 PM   #106 
              - Does anybody on this board EVER read a book?  Jeff In Milwaukee   Dec-24-09 01:21 PM   #108 
  - ideology? The bill is a scam - it will not cover these people. it will create fly by night  grahamhgreen   Dec-24-09 12:41 AM   #92 
  - Not even slightly true  Jeff In Milwaukee   Dec-24-09 10:06 AM   #97 
     - Links? If they fail to provide, the mechanisms for enforcement are wek. There is no jail time for  grahamhgreen   Dec-24-09 11:56 AM   #99 
     - LOL.  Milo_Bloom   Dec-24-09 12:12 PM   #103 
        - I've read the legislation....and you obviously haven't  Jeff In Milwaukee   Dec-24-09 12:57 PM   #105 
           - 5150 per family.  Milo_Bloom   Dec-24-09 01:20 PM   #107 
              - Link  Jeff In Milwaukee   Dec-24-09 01:26 PM   #110 
                 - Read the bill.  Milo_Bloom   Dec-24-09 01:28 PM   #112 
                 - Wrong...  Jeff In Milwaukee   Dec-24-09 01:52 PM   #115 
                    - WRONG. You didn't read the bill.  Milo_Bloom   Dec-24-09 01:56 PM   #116 
                       - If you could UNDERSTAND the Bill...  Jeff In Milwaukee   Dec-24-09 02:01 PM   #119 
                          - Don't quit your day job.  Milo_Bloom   Dec-24-09 02:04 PM   #120 
                             - Hardly...  Jeff In Milwaukee   Dec-24-09 02:10 PM   #122 
                                - Unfortunately for you, the answer existed...  Milo_Bloom   Dec-24-09 02:14 PM   #125 
                                   - What you posted is NOT a reference to deductibles  Jeff In Milwaukee   Dec-24-09 02:19 PM   #127 
                                      - Oh dead god, are you serious????  Milo_Bloom   Dec-24-09 02:24 PM   #129 
                                         - Funny. No Link Here Either....  Jeff In Milwaukee   Dec-24-09 02:43 PM   #133 
                                            - It was no more valid when Joe Wilson said it.  Milo_Bloom   Dec-24-09 02:46 PM   #135 
                                               - No Link  Jeff In Milwaukee   Dec-24-09 02:59 PM   #137 
                                                  - No Link  Milo_Bloom   Dec-24-09 03:09 PM   #139 
                 - Actually, make that 10K  Milo_Bloom   Dec-24-09 01:48 PM   #114 
  - If I was the President, I think I would sign the bill. nt  ZombieHorde   Dec-24-09 12:03 PM   #100 
  - NO ONE dies from lack of insurance.  Milo_Bloom   Dec-24-09 12:09 PM   #101 
  - Jesus, How Many Time Does This Need To Be Explained....  Jeff In Milwaukee   Dec-24-09 01:28 PM   #111 
     - 100% Wrong.  Milo_Bloom   Dec-24-09 01:37 PM   #113 
        - Are you this thick professionally?  Jeff In Milwaukee   Dec-24-09 01:57 PM   #117 
           - Still wrong. Maybe b/c you didn't read the bill.  Milo_Bloom   Dec-24-09 02:00 PM   #118 
              - You know less about English that you do about Economics....  Jeff In Milwaukee   Dec-24-09 02:07 PM   #121 
                 - And it creates more strawmen to wiggle its way out of the mess it created.  Milo_Bloom   Dec-24-09 02:12 PM   #124 
                    - Post Links to Every Statement You've Just Made  Jeff In Milwaukee   Dec-24-09 02:23 PM   #128 
                       - Okay.  Milo_Bloom   Dec-24-09 02:30 PM   #131 
                          - No Link  Jeff In Milwaukee   Dec-24-09 02:40 PM   #132 
                             - You should've quit while you were behind.  Milo_Bloom   Dec-24-09 02:44 PM   #134 
                                - No Link  Jeff In Milwaukee   Dec-24-09 02:58 PM   #136 
                                   - No Link  Milo_Bloom   Dec-24-09 03:08 PM   #138 
  - I'd veto it, I promised the people that I would regulate this industry  TheKentuckian   Dec-24-09 01:26 PM   #109 
  - Stock up on Sympathy Cards...  Jeff In Milwaukee   Dec-24-09 02:11 PM   #123 
     - Yeah, all the little cheerleaders are going to be sad when they understand what they bought.  Milo_Bloom   Dec-24-09 02:15 PM   #126 
  - Veto it  jeanpalmer   Dec-24-09 03:15 PM   #140 
  - It's too late to do anything but sign it. If I am Obama, I've already shown my hand.  county worker   Dec-24-09 03:32 PM   #141 

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