SidDithers
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Sat Nov-26-11 04:01 PM
Response to Original message |
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Klein's article has been posted at least 3 different times in GD over the last 3 days.
Bullshit not only turns into facts, but it multiplies too.
Sid
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| -"How Bullshit Magically Turns Into Fact" |
Pirate Smile |
Nov-25-11 07:48 PM |
#0 |
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It's appalling, and it's being unrec'd. It's sad, but it doesn't fit the narrative being created by |
Tarheel_Dem |
Nov-25-11 07:54 PM |
#1 |
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Of course it's being unrec'd. The same folks unrecing this rec'd that insanely stupid Examiner bit |
Number23 |
Nov-25-11 08:18 PM |
#4 |
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"The Quibbler". |
Tarheel_Dem |
Nov-25-11 08:31 PM |
#6 |
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Of course it's being unrecc'd; it's a pile of disinformation |
Remember Me |
Nov-26-11 07:29 PM |
#70 |
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That post you linked was indeed misinformation |
BklnDem75 |
Nov-26-11 08:40 PM |
#104 |
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The point appears to have flown over your head |
Number23 |
Nov-26-11 09:39 PM |
#108 |
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You know, what I've read -- and what I know -- doesn't lead me in that direction |
Remember Me |
Nov-27-11 02:36 PM |
#118 |
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So nothing has to be actually proven |
Number23 |
Nov-27-11 05:10 PM |
#126 |
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I don't expect infromation in most news articles to be "proven," no -- |
Remember Me |
Nov-27-11 09:00 PM |
#127 |
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As I previously said |
Number23 |
Nov-27-11 10:11 PM |
#128 |
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Ah, CORROBORATE. Corroboration isn't PROOF. |
Remember Me |
Nov-27-11 10:56 PM |
#129 |
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You should have stopped a looooong time ago |
Number23 |
Nov-27-11 11:05 PM |
#130 |
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LOL. There's a reason why I held fire in this thread |
BklnDem75 |
Nov-28-11 06:15 AM |
#132 |
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Well, that doesn't describe me. But you knew that. I don't pin this on Obama |
Remember Me |
Nov-28-11 10:10 AM |
#135 |
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Of course not... |
BklnDem75 |
Nov-28-11 10:37 AM |
#137 |
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Once again: CORROBORATION ISN'T PROOF. |
Remember Me |
Nov-28-11 10:14 AM |
#136 |
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Uncorroborated > Corroborated |
BklnDem75 |
Nov-28-11 11:59 AM |
#141 |
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It would be funny if it wasn't kind of sad, huh? |
Number23 |
Nov-28-11 03:27 PM |
#144 |
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Not a word from Keith or Rachel today on this. It's been debunked. |
AtomicKitten |
Nov-28-11 10:07 PM |
#146 |
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Kicked and recommended. This is a large and growing problem. |
TheWraith |
Nov-25-11 07:59 PM |
#2 |
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See the info on the link below also ... |
Tx4obama |
Nov-25-11 08:02 PM |
#3 |
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The protests are already losing their purpose |
treestar |
Nov-25-11 08:26 PM |
#5 |
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Excellent observation. |
great white snark |
Nov-26-11 04:28 PM |
#36 |
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What are justified arrests in these protests? |
Remember Me |
Nov-26-11 07:30 PM |
#71 |
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If people break the law? |
treestar |
Nov-28-11 10:45 AM |
#138 |
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Wow. Talk about a meme trying to discredit a worthy cause. |
cui bono |
Nov-26-11 07:42 PM |
#83 |
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Why do you assume that the wrongheaded tactics |
treestar |
Nov-28-11 10:48 AM |
#139 |
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+1000 |
Tarheel_Dem |
Nov-27-11 02:11 PM |
#116 |
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as if anyone on the left can message anything over the screaming of 1000 coordinated radio stations |
certainot |
Nov-25-11 08:39 PM |
#7 |
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it's another 24 business hours story... |
Whisp |
Nov-25-11 08:42 PM |
#8 |
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The will to believe is as strong on the hard left as it is on the hard right n/t |
Azathoth |
Nov-25-11 09:01 PM |
#9 |
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I consider this the age of uncritical thinking. |
joshcryer |
Nov-25-11 09:14 PM |
#10 |
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and usually have more meat and validity to them |
Remember Me |
Nov-26-11 07:31 PM |
#72 |
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As are fairy tales of presidents doing wonders and playing chess games. |
cui bono |
Nov-26-11 07:45 PM |
#84 |
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Deleted message |
Name removed |
Nov-25-11 09:25 PM |
#11 |
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Deleted message |
Name removed |
Nov-25-11 09:43 PM |
#12 |
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The majority of Obama supporters are the 99% and support OWS |
Tx4obama |
Nov-25-11 11:16 PM |
#17 |
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Deleted sub-thread |
Name removed |
Nov-26-11 07:31 PM |
#73 |
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That is not possible given that Obama put Wall Street in the White House. |
cui bono |
Nov-28-11 04:34 AM |
#131 |
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"Distance lends enchantment to the view." - Mark Twain |
ellisonz |
Nov-25-11 10:16 PM |
#13 |
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Thanks. |
Scurrilous |
Nov-25-11 10:17 PM |
#14 |
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Good for her, we need our own propaganda arm too. nt |
bemildred |
Nov-25-11 10:23 PM |
#15 |
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Was that intended as sarcasm? |
Martin Eden |
Nov-26-11 09:57 AM |
#22 |
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There are no lies here. |
Remember Me |
Nov-26-11 07:33 PM |
#74 |
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False Propaganda |
Martin Eden |
Nov-27-11 02:03 PM |
#115 |
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I am not being mislead, are you? |
bemildred |
Nov-28-11 08:58 AM |
#134 |
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I hate it when the leftwing mimics the rightwing, both embracing crap journalism |
AtomicKitten |
Nov-25-11 10:35 PM |
#16 |
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Uh the originating statement that Naomi was using to base her article on |
truedelphi |
Nov-26-11 06:36 PM |
#46 |
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No the original accusation came from an un-source piece in the Examiner. |
AtomicKitten |
Nov-26-11 06:46 PM |
#50 |
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Not exactly unsourced |
Remember Me |
Nov-26-11 07:23 PM |
#63 |
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"Citing the Examiner is the journalistic equivalent of saying, 'My friend Bob told me.' " |
AtomicKitten |
Nov-26-11 07:33 PM |
#75 |
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Oh, well, THAT certainly settles it: DHS rejects the accusation. |
Remember Me |
Nov-26-11 07:36 PM |
#77 |
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Well that's a cherry-picked retort. Too bad really; Salon is reliable, the Examiner not so much. |
AtomicKitten |
Nov-26-11 07:40 PM |
#81 |
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The poster mentioned you believing DHS denial. |
cui bono |
Nov-26-11 07:54 PM |
#89 |
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I believe what responsible journalists are concluding, that Naomi screwed the pooch on this. |
AtomicKitten |
Nov-26-11 08:05 PM |
#92 |
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Excellent point. Thanks for making it. |
Remember Me |
Nov-27-11 02:51 PM |
#121 |
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So the stance is believe anything over DHS |
BklnDem75 |
Nov-28-11 12:10 PM |
#142 |
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Gimme a break. Naomi Wolf and Judith Miller in the same breath? |
mojowork_n |
Nov-25-11 11:46 PM |
#18 |
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A republican lobbying firm shopping a plan to do background checks on activists |
Orangepeel |
Nov-26-11 12:31 AM |
#19 |
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She was arrested, maybe she saw them. n/t |
zalinda |
Nov-26-11 01:19 AM |
#20 |
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I believe that reporting should be based on facts, not conjecture.... |
Scuba |
Nov-26-11 05:39 AM |
#21 |
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Except that almost none of those cities actually "cracked down." |
TheWraith |
Nov-26-11 02:19 PM |
#31 |
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Oh, please. Those absolutely were crackdowns -- riot gear and all |
Remember Me |
Nov-26-11 07:35 PM |
#76 |
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There were more than those cities. I can't name them now but I read about them at the time. |
cui bono |
Nov-26-11 07:38 PM |
#78 |
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up to 40 cities, according to one report |
Remember Me |
Nov-27-11 02:48 PM |
#120 |
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The actual article |
kenfrequed |
Nov-26-11 10:01 AM |
#23 |
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All the citations go back to the bogus "The Examiner" blogger. |
emulatorloo |
Nov-26-11 10:42 AM |
#26 |
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I have to agree. |
Sparkly |
Nov-26-11 10:01 AM |
#24 |
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Thank you. This is happening more and more at DU |
emulatorloo |
Nov-26-11 10:37 AM |
#25 |
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originated here I think |
doccraig67 |
Nov-26-11 10:42 AM |
#27 |
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Ouan mentons conference call with 18 Mayors about handling OWS |
doccraig67 |
Nov-26-11 10:51 AM |
#28 |
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Exactly. No proof or mention of Homeland Security. |
AtomicKitten |
Nov-26-11 06:35 PM |
#44 |
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Regarding the mayors' more than once a month conference call |
Tx4obama |
Nov-26-11 11:46 PM |
#114 |
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Unless she can correct this... |
Life Long Dem |
Nov-26-11 11:01 AM |
#29 |
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Save the Pacific Northwest tree octopus (Octopus paxarbolis) |
progressoid |
Nov-26-11 11:19 AM |
#30 |
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I agree responsible journalists should be clear re- |
snot |
Nov-26-11 03:10 PM |
#32 |
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P.S.: It's not clear Wolf misrepresented anything as being more than speculation: |
snot |
Nov-26-11 04:20 PM |
#35 |
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DHS was not involved in any conference calls. |
AtomicKitten |
Nov-26-11 05:23 PM |
#37 |
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Two big lies circulated here - the Fed's $16 trillion in "giveaways" to the banks and |
banned from Kos |
Nov-26-11 03:52 PM |
#33 |
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K&R... |
SidDithers |
Nov-26-11 04:01 PM |
#34 |
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I appreciate your efforts to shield HOMELAND SECURITY, but this is right down their |
rhett o rick |
Nov-26-11 05:45 PM |
#38 |
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"I am going to believe they were involved until proven otherwise." |
AtomicKitten |
Nov-26-11 06:15 PM |
#41 |
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I like this one... |
SidDithers |
Nov-26-11 06:36 PM |
#45 |
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omg!!proof!!! elevens!!!run!!! |
AtomicKitten |
Nov-26-11 06:39 PM |
#47 |
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... |
SidDithers |
Nov-26-11 06:44 PM |
#48 |
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Deleted message |
Name removed |
Nov-26-11 10:54 PM |
#109 |
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this is oversensitivity on the part of the Obama-centric folks |
Enrique |
Nov-26-11 05:46 PM |
#39 |
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Nonsense. Naomi had NO SUBSTANTIATION for her accusation. Zip, nada, goose-egg. |
AtomicKitten |
Nov-26-11 06:12 PM |
#40 |
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too late to edit the post, but I changed my mind about Wolf's article |
Enrique |
Nov-26-11 06:51 PM |
#52 |
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That's good of you to acknowledge that. |
Pirate Smile |
Nov-26-11 11:02 PM |
#111 |
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Exactly. And this thread shows why the "ignore" function on this site is a bad thing. |
cui bono |
Nov-26-11 07:57 PM |
#90 |
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Wolf's article was WND-level junk opinionating. |
geek tragedy |
Nov-26-11 11:19 PM |
#113 |
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Excuse me, didn't the source of Naomi's peiece come fromt he fact that numerous Bay Area newspapers |
truedelphi |
Nov-26-11 06:25 PM |
#42 |
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There is NO PROOF that DHS was involved in these phone conferences. None whatsoever. |
AtomicKitten |
Nov-26-11 06:29 PM |
#43 |
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What do you mean when you say: |
truedelphi |
Nov-26-11 06:51 PM |
#53 |
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It means that phone conferences between cities isn't unusual. |
AtomicKitten |
Nov-26-11 07:00 PM |
#55 |
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Proof? You're demanding PROOF? Plenty of people get convicted and |
Remember Me |
Nov-26-11 07:16 PM |
#60 |
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DHS was not involved in the crackdowns and there is no evidence to support they were. |
AtomicKitten |
Nov-26-11 07:22 PM |
#62 |
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I actually care a lot about truth and accuracy in reporting -- and WE GOT IT |
Remember Me |
Nov-26-11 07:53 PM |
#88 |
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Just evidence that DHS is involved with PERF and PERF with the crackdown cities |
Remember Me |
Nov-27-11 02:56 PM |
#122 |
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It is sad that people here somehow think that |
truedelphi |
Nov-26-11 07:23 PM |
#64 |
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What's sad is that you apparently don't care about accurate reporting. |
AtomicKitten |
Nov-26-11 07:26 PM |
#67 |
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You haven't proven inaccurate reporting -- |
Remember Me |
Nov-26-11 07:39 PM |
#79 |
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"Citing the Examiner is the journalistic equivalent of saying, 'My friend Bob told me.' " |
AtomicKitten |
Nov-26-11 07:46 PM |
#85 |
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Thank you, remember me. |
truedelphi |
Nov-26-11 08:34 PM |
#103 |
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Did she mention that DHS was coordinating the calls? No she didn't. That's the point. |
AtomicKitten |
Nov-26-11 08:51 PM |
#106 |
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Excuse me, but do you live in California? |
truedelphi |
Nov-26-11 09:13 PM |
#107 |
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Excellent points |
Remember Me |
Nov-27-11 02:47 PM |
#119 |
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When you think of all the lies that have been perpetuated over the last |
truedelphi |
Nov-27-11 02:56 PM |
#123 |
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Creepy... |
Raksha |
Nov-26-11 08:28 PM |
#98 |
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If it were possible to have a post moved to the 911 forum |
treestar |
Nov-26-11 08:20 PM |
#94 |
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Wow. |
Life Long Dem |
Nov-27-11 03:49 PM |
#125 |
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Mayor Quan was interviewed by the BBC and also |
truedelphi |
Nov-26-11 06:46 PM |
#49 |
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DHS was not involved in the phone conferences and there is no mention or evidence that they were. |
AtomicKitten |
Nov-26-11 06:51 PM |
#51 |
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You can believe what ever it is you want to. |
truedelphi |
Nov-26-11 06:54 PM |
#54 |
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I believe that journalists are obligated to report responsibly. |
AtomicKitten |
Nov-26-11 07:01 PM |
#56 |
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And your proof that this quote of Mayor Quan's was not reported during |
truedelphi |
Nov-26-11 07:12 PM |
#58 |
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The crackdowns were coordinated but not with the DHS. Quan never said the DHS was involved. |
AtomicKitten |
Nov-26-11 07:17 PM |
#61 |
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Deleted message |
Name removed |
Nov-26-11 07:47 PM |
#86 |
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Conspiracy theories are not factual. You do know the difference, right? |
AtomicKitten |
Nov-26-11 07:50 PM |
#87 |
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Conspiracy theories are not factual? Are you kidding me? |
cui bono |
Nov-26-11 08:01 PM |
#91 |
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Thank you nt |
Remember Me |
Nov-26-11 07:40 PM |
#80 |
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Again, no proof DHS was involved in the conference calls and THAT'S A FACT!! |
AtomicKitten |
Nov-26-11 07:41 PM |
#82 |
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And the rest of that FACT is that there are (to me) credible allegations |
Remember Me |
Nov-26-11 08:25 PM |
#96 |
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Wanting it to be true and taken seriously alas does not make it so. |
AtomicKitten |
Nov-26-11 08:28 PM |
#99 |
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Naomi Wolf rivals Melissa Harris-Perry for crackpot of the month. |
Vattel |
Nov-26-11 07:09 PM |
#57 |
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Boy You have no idea how much that erodes YOUR credibility |
Remember Me |
Nov-26-11 07:25 PM |
#66 |
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Do some homework before casting aspersions. Naomi screwed the pooch on this one. |
AtomicKitten |
Nov-26-11 07:27 PM |
#68 |
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Something about Naomi Klein |
Remember Me |
Nov-26-11 08:22 PM |
#95 |
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I've read her book and it has nothing to do with her crap-sourced latest piece. |
AtomicKitten |
Nov-26-11 08:25 PM |
#97 |
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Well, then you didn't understand what you read that well -- |
Remember Me |
Nov-26-11 08:29 PM |
#100 |
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Well she effed up on this one whether you admit it or not. |
AtomicKitten |
Nov-26-11 08:30 PM |
#101 |
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Here's what I'll admit -- and offer an apology as well. |
Remember Me |
Nov-27-11 02:23 PM |
#117 |
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No worries. I share the dunce cap because I mixed up the Naomi's as well. |
AtomicKitten |
Nov-28-11 10:35 PM |
#148 |
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This is Naomi WOLF not Naomi KLEIN. nt |
geek tragedy |
Nov-26-11 11:18 PM |
#112 |
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I have to partially disavow my own post |
Remember Me |
Nov-27-11 03:07 PM |
#124 |
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Naomi Klein is not Naomi Wolf. 2 different people... |
dionysus |
Nov-28-11 02:13 PM |
#143 |
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Oh, FFS. Not Naomi KLEIN-- Naomi WOLF wrote the piece of trash article for the guardian. |
NYC_SKP |
Nov-28-11 03:42 PM |
#145 |
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Your defense of Homeland Security is scary. Whose side are you on? nm |
rhett o rick |
Nov-26-11 10:57 PM |
#110 |
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I'm on the side of truth in journalism and responsible reporting. |
AtomicKitten |
Nov-28-11 10:08 PM |
#147 |
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I know, people who like evidence have no credibility. |
Vattel |
Nov-26-11 07:28 PM |
#69 |
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Link to Joshua Holland's debunking at Alternet.... |
Luminous Animal |
Nov-26-11 07:12 PM |
#59 |
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Thanks for posting this. |
AtomicKitten |
Nov-26-11 07:24 PM |
#65 |
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This is ABSOLUTELY PERFECT -- THANK YOU!! |
Remember Me |
Nov-26-11 08:06 PM |
#93 |
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But which is more perfect: |
AtomicKitten |
Nov-26-11 08:32 PM |
#102 |
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Sadly... |
SnakeEyes |
Nov-26-11 08:42 PM |
#105 |
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Thank you for posting this! |
Nancy Waterman |
Nov-28-11 08:56 AM |
#133 |
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You can waist a lot of really good time trying to train an idiot on the facts; but why? |
Cigar11 |
Nov-28-11 11:51 AM |
#140 |
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Thank you |
MadrasT |
Nov-29-11 03:35 PM |
#149 |
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