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Home » Discuss » General Discussion: Presidency Donate to DU
Donnachaidh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-18-11 12:19 PM
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83. a veritable wind tunnel of spin!
:rofl: :rofl:
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  -WP: Obama never secretly killed the public option. Its a myth dennis4868  Nov-17-11 11:10 PM   #0 
  - Deleted sub-thread  Name removed   Nov-17-11 11:28 PM   #1 
  - When people want to believe something, facts aren't a requirement. Recommend. nt  gateley   Nov-17-11 11:32 PM   #2 
  - ...  young but wise   Nov-17-11 11:51 PM   #3 
  - Faith trumps logic.  boppers   Nov-18-11 02:29 AM   #20 
  - K&R.  young but wise   Nov-17-11 11:52 PM   #4 
  - Make the Senate sell the PO as an alternative....  Historic NY   Nov-17-11 11:56 PM   #5 
  - I agree with your assessment. Looking back, I wonder how it was that  CTyankee   Nov-18-11 03:28 PM   #102 
  - I knew this was never the case  BlueCaliDem   Nov-17-11 11:58 PM   #6 
  - This is what is forgotten by Dems...I find. n/t  vaberella   Nov-18-11 01:45 AM   #19 
  - I find that same conclusion, vaberella. eom  BlueCaliDem   Nov-18-11 07:54 PM   #127 
  - +a jillion  BlancheSplanchnik   Nov-18-11 11:50 AM   #77 
     - Thanks, BlancheSplanchnik. And you're so right.  BlueCaliDem   Nov-18-11 07:56 PM   #128 
  - 219 and 60  Kennah   Nov-18-11 12:01 AM   #7 
  - +535  ellisonz   Nov-18-11 12:55 AM   #14 
  - +1000000000000000000000000000  dennis4868   Nov-18-11 01:08 AM   #15 
  - We never ever had the 60.  MjolnirTime   Nov-18-11 10:10 AM   #60 
  - Kennah's referring to the final bill that did pass  BklnDem75   Nov-18-11 10:39 AM   #68 
  - And it took how many MONTHS of pounding, massaging, deal-making, pressure, etcetera...  TheWraith   Nov-18-11 03:44 PM   #107 
  - The public option was killed by Evan Bayn and Ben Nelson.  blueclown   Nov-18-11 12:04 AM   #8 
  - He could have let the single-payer reps into the room. That's how you get a public option.  robinlynne   Nov-18-11 12:06 AM   #9 
  - Agreed that there should have been single-payer representatives at the hearings.  blueclown   Nov-18-11 12:08 AM   #10 
  - I'm sorry to say your statement is laughable. If the PO had no chance; how would single payer?  vaberella   Nov-18-11 01:34 AM   #17 
     - Laughable? Then you didn't understand the point, or maybe negotiating.  cui bono   Nov-18-11 03:17 AM   #22 
     - Caved almost immediately?  BklnDem75   Nov-18-11 10:46 AM   #70 
     - You're under the mistaken belief that negotiation automatically means meeting in the middle.  TheWraith   Nov-18-11 07:27 PM   #124 
        - +1  treestar   Nov-19-11 05:00 PM   #145 
        - Good point! nt  One of the 99   Nov-20-11 05:25 PM   #151 
     - Not laughable but unrealistic.  One of the 99   Nov-20-11 05:23 PM   #150 
  - He fought. I never saw someone going to bat for the Public Option so much.  vaberella   Nov-18-11 01:30 AM   #16 
  - When did he fight? Can you provide some evidence of that?  cui bono   Nov-18-11 10:13 AM   #62 
     - I don't recall your version of events at all  BklnDem75   Nov-18-11 10:21 AM   #64 
  - Don't forget Joe Lieberman. He publicly opposed the public option, as well.  flpoljunkie   Nov-18-11 06:47 AM   #30 
  - +1  young but wise   Nov-18-11 09:19 PM   #132 
  - Progressives had been fighting for an individual mandate for years? nt  Mojorabbit   Nov-18-11 08:19 PM   #130 
  - Same thing as the lie that Pres. Obama called Americans "Lazy".....  FrenchieCat   Nov-18-11 12:15 AM   #11 
  - No, it was single-payer that he avoided like the plague - wouldn't even talk about it  slay   Nov-18-11 12:19 AM   #12 
  - Actually. The health care debate was being derailed before it started.  vaberella   Nov-18-11 01:39 AM   #18 
  - Only because congress is completely corrupt - they don't give a shit about us  slay   Nov-18-11 02:37 AM   #21 
     - Bingo  Enthusiast   Nov-18-11 04:52 AM   #24 
     - Bwhaahaha... "Bingo" is when someone actually makes a valid point.  The Doctor.   Nov-18-11 03:11 PM   #99 
     - Oh BS  treestar   Nov-19-11 05:02 PM   #146 
  - Single Payer was never an option because out would immediately wipe out the Insurance industry  MjolnirTime   Nov-18-11 10:12 AM   #61 
     - No, it can happen all at once without causing any lasting harm.  The Doctor.   Nov-18-11 03:14 PM   #100 
     - The Insurance Industry is 18% of the economy. It would most certainly be harmful to cut its throat.  MjolnirTime   Nov-19-11 02:46 PM   #143 
     - Those assertions require a lot more proof  treestar   Nov-19-11 05:03 PM   #147 
     - I think it much more likely we will end up with a dual tier system like France where...  stevenleser   Nov-21-11 09:40 AM   #153 
  - Everyone already knows all of this  Number23   Nov-18-11 12:55 AM   #13 
  - this rewriting history makes me very cynical  Enrique   Nov-18-11 08:13 AM   #39 
  - Amen, my brother. Even when he massively fails, "it's not his fault."nt  mistertrickster   Nov-18-11 10:50 AM   #72 
  - This is not hard, people!  Number23   Nov-18-11 02:05 PM   #94 
  - If you want to seem to be the cool outside revolutionary that gets it. Then it is hard to accept  stevenleser   Nov-21-11 09:42 AM   #155 
  - Then don't rewrite history to suit what you would like to believe. nt  stevenleser   Nov-21-11 09:41 AM   #154 
  - +1  shellgame26   Nov-18-11 10:25 AM   #65 
  - If it had no chance of passing, why did the President demand that it MUST pass?  mistertrickster   Nov-18-11 10:48 AM   #71 
     - What is it that you are not understanding?  Number23   Nov-18-11 02:14 PM   #95 
  - "Any bill I sign must include an insurance exchange..."  boppers   Nov-18-11 04:48 AM   #23 
  - Clarifying that the full quote included a public option.  eomer   Nov-18-11 05:43 AM   #27 
     - He's not tracking records enough!  boppers   Nov-18-11 05:58 AM   #28 
     - The point of the OP is Obama's position (at that time) on the public option.  eomer   Nov-18-11 06:10 AM   #29 
        - The point is selectively claiming that a later clause has the same weight as a primary requirement.  boppers   Nov-19-11 12:18 AM   #136 
     - boppers got it right  BklnDem75   Nov-18-11 10:35 AM   #67 
        - What about the other five times he's on record demanding a public option?  mistertrickster   Nov-18-11 10:55 AM   #73 
           - Never said he didn't want a public option  BklnDem75   Nov-18-11 11:13 AM   #75 
              - Who claimed it was the "focus"? Just because "public option"  mistertrickster   Nov-18-11 11:40 AM   #76 
                 - Why wouldn't he?  BklnDem75   Nov-18-11 12:11 PM   #79 
  - "Shibboleth" is the Hebrew word for 'public option'. n/t  Davis_X_Machina   Nov-18-11 05:15 AM   #25 
  - Those "facts" are not totally factual. And, besides, they miss the main point.  eomer   Nov-18-11 05:19 AM   #26 
  - Joe Lieberman was never going to vote for it, period.  JoePhilly   Nov-18-11 06:48 AM   #31 
  - Obama did not need Lieberman's vote. He needed 49 Democratic Senators plus Independent Sen. Sanders  eomer   Nov-18-11 07:19 AM   #35 
  - It takes 60 votes to end a filibuster before the Senate can vote on a bill  emulatorloo   Nov-18-11 08:32 AM   #44 
     - A budget reconciliation bill cannot be filibustered and thus requires only 50 Senators, plus the VP.  eomer   Nov-18-11 09:28 AM   #53 
        - Ah ... I've heard this arguement before. So let's review ...  JoePhilly   Nov-18-11 02:52 PM   #96 
           - Well, yes, they could have "slipped" it into 4872 and it would have needed just a simple majority.  eomer   Nov-18-11 03:45 PM   #108 
              - You seem to not understand my use of the phrase "slipped in" ...  JoePhilly   Nov-18-11 05:14 PM   #110 
                 - Lieberman was never going to allow that to happen in a bill under regular process.  eomer   Nov-19-11 03:29 AM   #137 
  - and Obama campaigned for Joe Lieberman  Enrique   Nov-18-11 08:24 AM   #42 
     - And Liebermann betrayed him by campaigning for McCain and killing the Public Option  emulatorloo   Nov-18-11 08:36 AM   #48 
        - Lieberman did not kill the public option, Democrats did.  eomer   Nov-18-11 09:37 AM   #54 
        - Because reconciliation votes don't require 60  BklnDem75   Nov-18-11 11:07 AM   #74 
           - You've got it mixed up. Reconciliation bills require only 50 votes. They don't need 60 Democrats.  eomer   Nov-18-11 12:17 PM   #82 
              - Sanders tried, they didn't have 50  BklnDem75   Nov-18-11 01:17 PM   #90 
                 - I don't assume that. Quite the opposite, I said I blame those Democrats for not supporting the PO.  eomer   Nov-18-11 01:53 PM   #93 
                    - Considering repukes didn't have 41 votes until Walker,  BklnDem75   Nov-18-11 02:57 PM   #97 
                       - Enough people did support it. Enough corporations didn't.  eomer   Nov-18-11 04:06 PM   #109 
                          - You saying enough did doesn't make it so  BklnDem75   Nov-18-11 06:11 PM   #113 
        - timelines aside, it still speaks to obama's poor judgement  frylock   Nov-18-11 12:12 PM   #80 
           - Poor judgement would be propping your colleague's opponent  BklnDem75   Nov-18-11 12:23 PM   #84 
  - another bit of reality that people ignore:  ChairmanAgnostic   Nov-18-11 08:34 AM   #45 
  - Do you have a link for his admission? Not challenging your assertion, I'd just like to read it.  eomer   Nov-18-11 09:42 AM   #55 
     - I believe it was last February, and I do have it stored  ChairmanAgnostic   Nov-18-11 10:27 AM   #66 
  - A public option "paying Medicare rates" couldn't even get 200 votes in the House.  BzaDem   Nov-20-11 10:15 AM   #149 
  - He certainly didn't give it mouth-to-ear resuscitation. n/t  Scuba   Nov-18-11 06:52 AM   #32 
  - +1 n/t  ejbr   Nov-18-11 05:35 PM   #112 
  - Huge surprise there  BklnDem75   Nov-18-11 07:07 AM   #33 
  - K&R. Facts are good...nt  SidDithers   Nov-18-11 07:10 AM   #34 
  - yeah, so read post 29  zipplewrath   Nov-18-11 08:07 AM   #38 
  - No proof that it happened does not mean it did not happen.  Laelth   Nov-18-11 07:39 AM   #36 
  - Sounds like a very religious explanation - see post 22  emulatorloo   Nov-18-11 08:37 AM   #49 
     - Deleted message  Name removed   Nov-18-11 12:50 PM   #87 
  - the White House admitted the deal  Enrique   Nov-18-11 07:56 AM   #37 
  - And it is buried in the definitions  zipplewrath   Nov-18-11 08:14 AM   #40 
  - Got a link?  BklnDem75   Nov-18-11 08:34 AM   #46 
  - It's all here and more... pbs.org  court jester   Nov-18-11 09:02 AM   #52 
     - That looks like a drug cost deal  BklnDem75   Nov-18-11 09:58 AM   #57 
  - Link?  emulatorloo   Nov-18-11 08:39 AM   #50 
  - Deleted message  Name removed   Nov-18-11 10:13 AM   #63 
  - .  unapatriciated   Nov-18-11 08:22 AM   #41 
  - Washington Post?  pmorlan1   Nov-18-11 08:28 AM   #43 
  - LOL. There is that.  ChairmanAgnostic   Nov-18-11 08:34 AM   #47 
  - Please cite instances of where Greg Sargent's Plumline blog has published false information  emulatorloo   Nov-18-11 08:41 AM   #51 
  - It's used to smear this President all the time  BklnDem75   Nov-18-11 10:02 AM   #58 
  - Deleted message  Name removed   Nov-18-11 01:08 PM   #89 
  - I'm fascinated by this ever more popular tactic. "Source-bias" is quite the tool of tools.  The Doctor.   Nov-18-11 03:19 PM   #101 
  - K & R  Tarheel_Dem   Nov-18-11 09:51 AM   #56 
  - Only those who wanted an excuse to jump ship bought into this.  MjolnirTime   Nov-18-11 10:09 AM   #59 
  - Facts are stubborn things . . . especially when they're in print and on videotape:  mistertrickster   Nov-18-11 10:40 AM   #69 
  - You posted that before...  BklnDem75   Nov-18-11 03:28 PM   #103 
     - Deleted message  Name removed   Nov-19-11 10:29 AM   #139 
        - Good luck  BklnDem75   Nov-19-11 04:56 PM   #144 
  - Deleted message  Name removed   Nov-18-11 12:09 PM   #78 
  - religion?! take the plank out of your own eye, buddy  frylock   Nov-18-11 12:24 PM   #85 
  - I neither know nor care whether Obama directly killed the public option himself.  mistertrickster   Nov-18-11 12:49 PM   #86 
     - Only the dark side deals in absolutes...  BklnDem75   Nov-18-11 03:37 PM   #104 
        - When you can't win on the merits of the argument, go for the motives of the poster.  mistertrickster   Nov-19-11 10:17 AM   #138 
        - Lighten up Francis...  BklnDem75   Nov-19-11 12:06 PM   #141 
        - BTW, Brooklyn Dem, have you gotten out from behind your keyboard  mistertrickster   Nov-19-11 10:44 AM   #140 
           - I don't work near Zuccotti Park... yet  BklnDem75   Nov-19-11 12:09 PM   #142 
              - Deleted message  Name removed   Nov-19-11 05:18 PM   #148 
  - That's the problem with secret deals: They're made in secret.  Cowpunk   Nov-18-11 12:13 PM   #81 
  - Entertainment attorney... um... yeah...  BklnDem75   Nov-18-11 03:39 PM   #105 
  - a veritable wind tunnel of spin!  Donnachaidh   Nov-18-11 12:19 PM   #83 
  - K&R  flamingdem   Nov-18-11 12:58 PM   #88 
  - Thanks but it won't make any difference.  great white snark   Nov-18-11 01:35 PM   #91 
  - I've never even heard that  Skittles   Nov-18-11 01:48 PM   #92 
  - That's a myth too  BklnDem75   Nov-18-11 03:40 PM   #106 
     - BULLSHIT  Skittles   Nov-18-11 06:11 PM   #114 
        - Sad but true...  BklnDem75   Nov-18-11 06:23 PM   #116 
           - Deleted message  Name removed   Nov-18-11 07:12 PM   #120 
              - Um... no. I won't do your job  BklnDem75   Nov-18-11 07:16 PM   #122 
  - No surprise at all.  The Doctor.   Nov-18-11 03:05 PM   #98 
  - I saw Obama being  femrap   Nov-18-11 05:27 PM   #111 
  - LOL sure...  BklnDem75   Nov-18-11 06:20 PM   #115 
     - Deleted message  Name removed   Nov-18-11 07:12 PM   #121 
     - Deleted message  Name removed   Nov-18-11 07:24 PM   #123 
     - Deleted message  Name removed   Nov-18-11 10:26 PM   #134 
        - Does that mean you have nothing to back your claim?  BklnDem75   Nov-19-11 12:16 AM   #135 
  - Not only did he make a backroom deal, he lied to the American people and claimed  woo me with science   Nov-18-11 06:45 PM   #117 
  - I'm gonna side with the OP on this one  BklnDem75   Nov-18-11 06:52 PM   #118 
     - Deleted sub-thread  Name removed   Nov-18-11 06:53 PM   #119 
     - Ah, a response!  woo me with science   Nov-18-11 07:37 PM   #126 
  - "There were certainly two significant deals that the White House made with interest groups.  rug   Nov-18-11 07:31 PM   #125 
  - "Facts are stupid things." - Ronald Reagan  UrbScotty   Nov-18-11 08:06 PM   #129 
  - "I know we are supposed to blame Obama for everything at this website"  kath   Nov-18-11 09:06 PM   #131 
  - Not only are you right, Dennis, but if the Democrats lose in the Supreme Court,  Major Hogwash   Nov-18-11 09:39 PM   #133 
  - Obama only secretly kills people.  MNBrewer   Nov-20-11 07:54 PM   #152 
 

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