You are viewing an obsolete version of the DU website which is no longer supported by the Administrators. Visit The New DU.
Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

Reply #170: Link to the ENTIRE speech by Pres. O in full context, not the OP's cherrypicked paraphrase. --> [View All]

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » General Discussion: Presidency Donate to DU
ClarkUSA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-16-11 06:33 PM
Response to Original message
170. Link to the ENTIRE speech by Pres. O in full context, not the OP's cherrypicked paraphrase. -->
Edited on Sun Oct-16-11 06:58 PM by ClarkUSA
We here have often criticized the RW for responding to sound bites rather than context of the words of our leaders. Rather than discuss isolated phrases of President Obama's speech today, I hope many here will listen to ALL of it. The President spoke of both the past and the present struggles of our country. I hope my fellow DUers are listening.

Link to video: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

THE PRESIDENT: Thank you very much. (Applause.) Thank you. (Applause.) Please be seated.

An earthquake and a hurricane may have delayed this day, but this is a day that would not be denied.

For this day, we celebrate Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.’s return to the National Mall. In this place, he will stand for all time, among monuments to those who fathered this nation and those who defended it; a black preacher with no official rank or title who somehow gave voice to our deepest dreams and our most lasting ideals, a man who stirred our conscience and thereby helped make our union more perfect.

And Dr. King would be the first to remind us that this memorial is not for him alone. The movement of which he was a part depended on an entire generation of leaders. Many are here today, and for their service and their sacrifice, we owe them our everlasting gratitude. This is a monument to your collective achievement. (Applause.)

Some giants of the civil rights movement –- like Rosa Parks and Dorothy Height, Benjamin Hooks, Reverend Fred Shuttlesworth –- they’ve been taken from us these past few years. This monument attests to their strength and their courage, and while we miss them dearly, we know they rest in a better place.

And finally, there are the multitudes of men and women whose names never appear in the history books –- those who marched and those who sang, those who sat in and those who stood firm, those who organized and those who mobilized –- all those men and women who through countless acts of quiet heroism helped bring about changes few thought were even possible. “By the thousands,” said Dr. King, “faceless, anonymous, relentless young people, black and white…have taken our whole nation back to those great wells of democracy which were dug deep by the founding fathers in the formulation of the Constitution and the Declaration of Independence.” To those men and women, to those foot soldiers for justice, know that this monument is yours, as well.

Nearly half a century has passed since that historic March on Washington, a day when thousands upon thousands gathered for jobs and for freedom. That is what our schoolchildren remember best when they think of Dr. King -– his booming voice across this Mall, calling on America to make freedom a reality for all of God’s children, prophesizing of a day when the jangling discord of our nation would be transformed into a beautiful symphony of brotherhood.

It is right that we honor that march, that we lift up Dr. King’s “I Have a Dream” speech –- for without that shining moment, without Dr. King’s glorious words, we might not have had the courage to come as far as we have. Because of that hopeful vision, because of Dr. King’s moral imagination, barricades began to fall and bigotry began to fade. New doors of opportunity swung open for an entire generation. Yes, laws changed, but hearts and minds changed, as well.

Look at the faces here around you, and you see an America that is more fair and more free and more just than the one Dr. King addressed that day. We are right to savor that slow but certain progress -– progress that’s expressed itself in a million ways, large and small, across this nation every single day, as people of all colors and creeds live together, and work together, and fight alongside one another, and learn together, and build together, and love one another.

So it is right for us to celebrate today Dr. King’s dream and his vision of unity. And yet it is also important on this day to remind ourselves that such progress did not come easily; that Dr. King’s faith was hard-won; that it sprung out of a harsh reality and some bitter disappointments.

It is right for us to celebrate Dr. King’s marvelous oratory, but it is worth remembering that progress did not come from words alone. Progress was hard. Progress was purchased through enduring the smack of billy clubs and the blast of fire hoses. It was bought with days in jail cells and nights of bomb threats. For every victory during the height of the civil rights movement, there were setbacks and there were defeats.

We forget now, but during his life, Dr. King wasn’t always considered a unifying figure. Even after rising to prominence, even after winning the Nobel Peace Prize, Dr. King was vilified by many, denounced as a rabble rouser and an agitator, a communist and a radical. He was even attacked by his own people, by those who felt he was going too fast or those who felt he was going too slow; by those who felt he shouldn’t meddle in issues like the Vietnam War or the rights of union workers. We know from his own testimony the doubts and the pain this caused him, and that the controversy that would swirl around his actions would last until the fateful day he died.

I raise all this because nearly 50 years after the March on Washington, our work, Dr. King’s work, is not yet complete. We gather here at a moment of great challenge and great change. In the first decade of this new century, we have been tested by war and by tragedy; by an economic crisis and its aftermath that has left millions out of work, and poverty on the rise, and millions more just struggling to get by. Indeed, even before this crisis struck, we had endured a decade of rising inequality and stagnant wages. In too many troubled neighborhoods across the country, the conditions of our poorest citizens appear little changed from what existed 50 years ago -– neighborhoods with underfunded schools and broken-down slums, inadequate health care, constant violence, neighborhoods in which too many young people grow up with little hope and few prospects for the future.

Our work is not done. And so on this day, in which we celebrate a man and a movement that did so much for this country, let us draw strength from those earlier struggles. First and foremost, let us remember that change has never been quick. Change has never been simple, or without controversy. Change depends on persistence. Change requires determination. It took a full decade before the moral guidance of Brown v. Board of Education was translated into the enforcement measures of the Civil Rights Act and the Voting Rights Act, but those 10 long years did not lead Dr. King to give up. He kept on pushing, he kept on speaking, he kept on marching until change finally came. (Applause.)

And then when, even after the Civil Rights Act and the Voting Rights Act passed, African Americans still found themselves trapped in pockets of poverty across the country, Dr. King didn’t say those laws were a failure; he didn’t say this is too hard; he didn’t say, let’s settle for what we got and go home. Instead he said, let’s take those victories and broaden our mission to achieve not just civil and political equality but also economic justice; let’s fight for a living wage and better schools and jobs for all who are willing to work. In other words, when met with hardship, when confronting disappointment, Dr. King refused to accept what he called the “isness” of today. He kept pushing towards the “oughtness” of tomorrow.

And so, as we think about all the work that we must do –- rebuilding an economy that can compete on a global stage, and fixing our schools so that every child -- not just some, but every child -- gets a world-class education, and making sure that our health care system is affordable and accessible to all, and that our economic system is one in which everybody gets a fair shake and everybody does their fair share, let us not be trapped by what is. (Applause.) We can’t be discouraged by what is. We’ve got to keep pushing for what ought to be, the America we ought to leave to our children, mindful that the hardships we face are nothing compared to those Dr. King and his fellow marchers faced 50 years ago, and that if we maintain our faith, in ourselves and in the possibilities of this nation, there is no challenge we cannot surmount.

And just as we draw strength from Dr. King’s struggles, so must we draw inspiration from his constant insistence on the oneness of man; the belief in his words that “we are caught in an inescapable network of mutuality, tied in a single garment of destiny.” It was that insistence, rooted in his Christian faith, that led him to tell a group of angry young protesters, “I love you as I love my own children,” even as one threw a rock that glanced off his neck.

It was that insistence, that belief that God resides in each of us, from the high to the low, in the oppressor and the oppressed, that convinced him that people and systems could change. It fortified his belief in non-violence. It permitted him to place his faith in a government that had fallen short of its ideals. It led him to see his charge not only as freeing black America from the shackles of discrimination, but also freeing many Americans from their own prejudices, and freeing Americans of every color from the depredations of poverty.

And so at this moment, when our politics appear so sharply polarized, and faith in our institutions so greatly diminished, we need more than ever to take heed of Dr. King’s teachings. He calls on us to stand in the other person’s shoes; to see through their eyes; to understand their pain. He tells us that we have a duty to fight against poverty, even if we are well off; to care about the child in the decrepit school even if our own children are doing fine; to show compassion toward the immigrant family, with the knowledge that most of us are only a few generations removed from similar hardships. (Applause.)

To say that we are bound together as one people, and must constantly strive to see ourselves in one another, is not to argue for a false unity that papers over our differences and ratifies an unjust status quo. As was true 50 years ago, as has been true throughout human history, those with power and privilege will often decry any call for change as “divisive.” They’ll say any challenge to the existing arrangements are unwise and destabilizing. Dr. King understood that peace without justice was no peace at all; that aligning our reality with our ideals often requires the speaking of uncomfortable truths and the creative tension of non-violent protest.

But he also understood that to bring about true and lasting change, there must be the possibility of reconciliation; that any social movement has to channel this tension through the spirit of love and mutuality.

If he were alive today, I believe he would remind us that the unemployed worker can rightly challenge the excesses of Wall Street without demonizing all who work there; that the businessman can enter tough negotiations with his company’s union without vilifying the right to collectively bargain. He would want us to know we can argue fiercely about the proper size and role of government without questioning each other’s love for this country -- (applause) -- with the knowledge that in this democracy, government is no distant object but is rather an expression of our common commitments to one another. He would call on us to assume the best in each other rather than the worst, and challenge one another in ways that ultimately heal rather than wound.

In the end, that’s what I hope my daughters take away from this monument. I want them to come away from here with a faith in what they can accomplish when they are determined and working for a righteous cause. I want them to come away from here with a faith in other people and a faith in a benevolent God. This sculpture, massive and iconic as it is, will remind them of Dr. King’s strength, but to see him only as larger than life would do a disservice to what he taught us about ourselves. He would want them to know that he had setbacks, because they will have setbacks. He would want them to know that he had doubts, because they will have doubts. He would want them to know that he was flawed, because all of us have flaws.

It is precisely because Dr. King was a man of flesh and blood and not a figure of stone that he inspires us so. His life, his story, tells us that change can come if you don’t give up. He would not give up, no matter how long it took, because in the smallest hamlets and the darkest slums, he had witnessed the highest reaches of the human spirit; because in those moments when the struggle seemed most hopeless, he had seen men and women and children conquer their fear; because he had seen hills and mountains made low and rough places made plain, and the crooked places made straight and God make a way out of no way.

And that is why we honor this man –- because he had faith in us. And that is why he belongs on this Mall -– because he saw what we might become. That is why Dr. King was so quintessentially American -- because for all the hardships we’ve endured, for all our sometimes tragic history, ours is a story of optimism and achievement and constant striving that is unique upon this Earth. And that is why the rest of the world still looks to us to lead. This is a country where ordinary people find in their hearts the courage to do extraordinary things; the courage to stand up in the face of the fiercest resistance and despair and say this is wrong, and this is right; we will not settle for what the cynics tell us we have to accept and we will reach again and again, no matter the odds, for what we know is possible.

That is the conviction we must carry now in our hearts. (Applause.) As tough as times may be, I know we will overcome. I know there are better days ahead. I know this because of the man towering over us. I know this because all he and his generation endured -- we are here today in a country that dedicated a monument to that legacy.

And so with our eyes on the horizon and our faith squarely placed in one another, let us keep striving; let us keep struggling; let us keep climbing toward that promised land of a nation and a world that is more fair, and more just, and more equal for every single child of God.

Thank you, God bless you, and God bless the United States of America. (Applause.)

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
  -Obama: MLK would not want us to vilify all who work on Wall Street Enrique  Oct-16-11 11:11 AM   #0 
  - Backing Wall St?  SHRED   Oct-16-11 11:13 AM   #1 
  - That's probably true.  proud2BlibKansan   Oct-16-11 11:13 AM   #2 
  - Thanks for  ProSense   Oct-16-11 11:15 AM   #3 
  - thanks for putting random parts of my post in boldface  Enrique   Oct-16-11 11:16 AM   #4 
  - Oh  ProSense   Oct-16-11 11:18 AM   #6 
  - Let me be the second. Obama put words in MLK's mouth that aren't supported by history.  yardwork   Oct-16-11 11:19 AM   #7 
     - He didn't put ANY words in his mouth  Empowerer   Oct-16-11 01:41 PM   #63 
  - Deleted sub-thread  Name removed   Oct-16-11 11:17 AM   #5 
  - Recced up to zero.  yardwork   Oct-16-11 11:20 AM   #8 
  - unrecced back down to zero  AngkorWot   Oct-16-11 11:23 AM   #10 
     - Welcome to DU. Your concern is noted.  yardwork   Oct-16-11 11:30 AM   #15 
  - right..does that include the workers who are putting people out of their houses?  xiamiam   Oct-16-11 11:22 AM   #9 
  - I don't think anyone is vilifying ALL who work on Wall Street  tridim   Oct-16-11 11:24 AM   #11 
  - Well  ProSense   Oct-16-11 11:28 AM   #12 
  - Which is why Obama's comment is a straw man, as the OP points out.  yardwork   Oct-16-11 11:30 AM   #13 
     - Actually  ProSense   Oct-16-11 11:32 AM   #16 
     - Exactly - NOBODY is vilifying everyone on Wall Street.  polichick   Oct-16-11 11:32 AM   #17 
        - Maybe YOU don't villify everyone on Wall Street but there are many DUers who do.  PragmaticLiberal   Oct-16-11 11:45 AM   #26 
        - This is about hating rich people or hating WS workers. I see plenty of RWr's on Facebook  harun   Oct-16-11 02:23 PM   #94 
        - Stop pretending like you speak for the entire movement. You do not, nor will you ever.  phleshdef   Oct-16-11 12:36 PM   #42 
           - What an irrational response to what I posted. fyi, I did not vote for Nader...  polichick   Oct-16-11 06:41 PM   #171 
  - So, you don't doubt the truth of the statement. You just don't like it when Obama says it?  MjolnirTime   Oct-16-11 11:30 AM   #14 
  - He didn't even say it.  AngkorWot   Oct-16-11 11:32 AM   #18 
  - I read the OP as pointing out that Obama's statement is a straw man.  yardwork   Oct-16-11 11:32 AM   #20 
  - straw man  Enrique   Oct-16-11 11:34 AM   #21 
  - Actually, I have nothing against the janitors that clean buildings on Wall Street  saras   Oct-16-11 11:32 AM   #19 
  - Well said. n/t  Laelth   Oct-16-11 11:42 AM   #23 
  - Yes that's what I was going to say!  Rosa Luxemburg   Oct-16-11 02:01 PM   #73 
  - Deleted message  Name removed   Oct-16-11 11:41 AM   #22 
  - Deleted sub-thread  Name removed   Oct-16-11 11:48 AM   #29 
  - Asking who MLK would want to villify's kind of like asking who Ghandi'd want to beat up, no? (nt)  Posteritatis   Oct-16-11 11:43 AM   #24 
  - Exactly.  PragmaticLiberal   Oct-16-11 11:50 AM   #30 
  - That's it. A point some here want to obscure.  yardwork   Oct-16-11 11:54 AM   #33 
     - He didn't mention OWS in his speech  EffieBlack   Oct-16-11 02:15 PM   #87 
  - MLK would have been walking right along with the ows protestors  Evergreen Emerald   Oct-16-11 11:44 AM   #25 
  - What a shamefully opportunistic thing to say. N/T  EmeraldCityGrl   Oct-16-11 11:46 AM   #27 
  - I wouldn't go THAT hard on the prez - he's just being a politician.  polichick   Oct-16-11 11:47 AM   #28 
  - Really? He calls on MLK? Really?  Jakes Progress   Oct-16-11 11:50 AM   #31 
  - Yea, why in the hell would he call on MLK in a SPEECH ABOUT MLK???  phleshdef   Oct-16-11 12:17 PM   #34 
     - Why in hell would you write this?  Jakes Progress   Oct-16-11 03:58 PM   #136 
  - As so often happens...  Anatos   Oct-16-11 11:53 AM   #32 
  - I like how many pretend they aren't guilty of sweeping generalizations against financial workers.  phleshdef   Oct-16-11 12:23 PM   #35 
  - maybe you're missing the point  Enrique   Oct-16-11 12:30 PM   #39 
     - Thats a very regressive way to look at things.  phleshdef   Oct-16-11 12:42 PM   #44 
        - it's a matter of interests  Enrique   Oct-16-11 12:53 PM   #47 
           - If you have any faith in the movement, you shouldn't be worried about such things.  phleshdef   Oct-16-11 12:58 PM   #49 
              - the right-wing DOES try to co-opt the Civil Rights Movement  Enrique   Oct-16-11 01:06 PM   #51 
                 - Trying doesn't mean shit. They've never successfully co-opted it and they never will.  phleshdef   Oct-16-11 01:20 PM   #52 
                    - +1 Well said!  loyalsister   Oct-17-11 12:46 AM   #186 
  - Using King to rationalize Wall St. corruption? Awful.  BlueIris   Oct-16-11 12:26 PM   #36 
  - Your strawman argument is ridiculous but entirely expected.  ClarkUSA   Oct-16-11 12:29 PM   #38 
  - Deleted message  Name removed   Oct-16-11 12:31 PM   #40 
  - Obama lives in a different universe than MLK nt  msongs   Oct-16-11 12:29 PM   #37 
  - Yea, the universe of the living.  phleshdef   Oct-16-11 12:32 PM   #41 
     - But, some could say the "Universe of the Privileged" also..  KoKo   Oct-16-11 03:46 PM   #130 
  - Dr. King's sister and children, Kerry Kennedy, John Lewis  Empowerer   Oct-16-11 12:40 PM   #43 
  - I didn't have a big problem with it  Enrique   Oct-16-11 12:49 PM   #46 
     - I know what he said. I was there when he said it.  Empowerer   Oct-16-11 01:00 PM   #50 
        - I have a problem with what Obama said.  yardwork   Oct-16-11 01:23 PM   #53 
           - Did you listen to the entire speech?  Empowerer   Oct-16-11 01:25 PM   #54 
           - I read the entire official transcript. I don't agree with a lot of it.  yardwork   Oct-16-11 01:28 PM   #55 
              - Fine. You have a right to your opinion  Empowerer   Oct-16-11 01:43 PM   #64 
                 - The fact that an anonymous poster on a political bulletin board claims  yardwork   Oct-16-11 01:48 PM   #66 
                    - You have every right to post whatever you like where you choose  Empowerer   Oct-16-11 01:55 PM   #71 
                       - I would hope that people you know have more credibility to you than an anonymous poster.  yardwork   Oct-16-11 02:00 PM   #72 
           - Hmmm?  ProSense   Oct-16-11 01:30 PM   #57 
              - I know what he said. I read the entire official transcript.  yardwork   Oct-16-11 01:32 PM   #58 
                 - Deleted message  Name removed   Oct-16-11 01:34 PM   #59 
                    - Deleted sub-thread  Name removed   Oct-16-11 01:37 PM   #61 
                    - It is your opinion that I am misrepresenting. It is my opinion that I am not. /nt  yardwork   Oct-16-11 01:53 PM   #70 
  - We shouldn't "begrudge them their wealth."  bvar22   Oct-16-11 12:47 PM   #45 
  - it's the American Dream  Enrique   Oct-16-11 12:57 PM   #48 
  - How typically DU to take a speech that was received as a positive and distort it to turn it into a  Pirate Smile   Oct-16-11 01:28 PM   #56 
  - The full quote of what he said here. (anyone offended by what he said must be nuts)  phleshdef   Oct-16-11 01:37 PM   #60 
  - You're right.  Empowerer   Oct-16-11 01:46 PM   #65 
  - That's your opinion. I don't agree with Obama's premise. I'm not offended. Just disagree.  yardwork   Oct-16-11 01:49 PM   #69 
  - Deleted message  Name removed   Oct-16-11 02:05 PM   #76 
  - What exactly do you disagree with?  EffieBlack   Oct-16-11 02:09 PM   #80 
     - I've expressed my opinion in several places on this thread.  yardwork   Oct-16-11 02:10 PM   #83 
  - I missed the speech but after reading the context...  BklnDem75   Oct-16-11 04:44 PM   #149 
  - Thanks for the context. That statement is very mild and is one sentence out of many  Number23   Oct-16-11 06:32 PM   #169 
  - Reminds me of the CBC speech that was disparaged.  joshcryer   Oct-16-11 07:08 PM   #175 
  - Here's that sentence in context:  Empowerer   Oct-16-11 01:37 PM   #62 
  - Deleted message  Name removed   Oct-16-11 01:49 PM   #67 
  - Deleted message  Name removed   Oct-16-11 01:49 PM   #68 
  - as someone pointed out above, he's a politician  Enrique   Oct-16-11 02:01 PM   #74 
     - I'm shaken by the hatred expressed in this thread. The personal attacks are over the top.  yardwork   Oct-16-11 02:08 PM   #78 
     - The OP cherrypicked a phrase in order to demonize President Obama.  ClarkUSA   Oct-16-11 02:11 PM   #84 
     - And you're cherrypicking one phrase from a quote which also defends unions against vilification too.  ClarkUSA   Oct-16-11 02:08 PM   #79 
     - take any of my criticisms of Obama, and apply it to either Clinton  Enrique   Oct-16-11 02:15 PM   #89 
        - +1  yardwork   Oct-16-11 02:16 PM   #90 
        - Deleted message  Name removed   Oct-16-11 02:21 PM   #92 
           - I also defended Wesley Clark  Enrique   Oct-16-11 02:29 PM   #96 
              - Your OP is a cherrypicked paraphrase that distorts Pres. Obama's healing MLK speech into ugliness.  ClarkUSA   Oct-16-11 02:35 PM   #99 
     - Obamaphobia  Anatos   Oct-17-11 06:19 PM   #187 
        - Great post!  EffieBlack   Oct-17-11 06:26 PM   #188 
  - This is pointless  Hutzpa   Oct-16-11 02:04 PM   #75 
  - Your cherrypicking demonization is a FAIL.-->Obama: MLK would not want businessmen to vilify unions.  ClarkUSA   Oct-16-11 02:06 PM   #77 
  - yes, it's much more interesting in context  Enrique   Oct-16-11 02:09 PM   #82 
     - I missed that part, too.  EffieBlack   Oct-16-11 02:11 PM   #85 
     - That's a false statement. Keep digging.  ClarkUSA   Oct-16-11 02:13 PM   #86 
  - Do you think everyone who works on Wall Street is a crook? Some do.  MjolnirTime   Oct-16-11 02:09 PM   #81 
  - yeah, and there was a guy there with a sign blaming the Jews  Enrique   Oct-16-11 02:20 PM   #91 
  - So you agree with the Teabaggers who claim that the ObamaNazi guy isn't one of them?  MjolnirTime   Oct-16-11 02:59 PM   #107 
     - What's "a good number?" 1 million? 1 thousand? 100?  ClassWarrior   Oct-16-11 03:34 PM   #120 
        - How about people right here at DU? People who claim to be representative of OWS.  MjolnirTime   Oct-16-11 03:45 PM   #127 
           - You didn't answer my question.  ClassWarrior   Oct-16-11 03:47 PM   #131 
  - Did the segregationists not have law on their side too? Did their adherence to the law exempt...  JVS   Oct-16-11 05:51 PM   #164 
  - Deleted message  Name removed   Oct-16-11 02:15 PM   #88 
  - Deleted message  Name removed   Oct-16-11 02:23 PM   #93 
  - OP is a cherrypicked paraphase designed to excite disgust at Pres. Obama. What O said in context->  ClarkUSA   Oct-16-11 02:26 PM   #95 
     - I read the context before writing my response  LittleBlue   Oct-16-11 02:35 PM   #98 
        - Then you could care less about MLK's message also. Gotcha.  ClarkUSA   Oct-16-11 02:36 PM   #100 
        - LOL  EffieBlack   Oct-16-11 02:38 PM   #102 
        - MLK is a better man than I am  LittleBlue   Oct-16-11 02:43 PM   #103 
           - President Obama wasn't doing that or saying that. You're missing his message completely.  ClarkUSA   Oct-16-11 02:46 PM   #105 
              - No, he was using a logically fallacious argument to prove  LittleBlue   Oct-16-11 02:50 PM   #106 
                 - You're taking his thoughtful, wise words & making a strawman argument. Nowhere did he cast blame.  ClarkUSA   Oct-16-11 02:59 PM   #108 
                    - No Clark, it's a strawman  LittleBlue   Oct-16-11 03:05 PM   #109 
                    - That's a false narrative you're pushing. Quote exactly what Pres. O said that outrages you so much.  ClarkUSA   Oct-16-11 03:12 PM   #111 
                       - Right here  LittleBlue   Oct-16-11 03:16 PM   #113 
                          - You are missing his points completely.He was defending protesters' right to challenge Wall Street...  ClarkUSA   Oct-16-11 03:22 PM   #115 
                             - He used a logical fallacy to do it. Look, I can do it too  LittleBlue   Oct-16-11 03:27 PM   #117 
                                - No, you're using a strawman fallacy to distort his wise words that caution against demonization.  ClarkUSA   Oct-16-11 03:29 PM   #118 
                                   - No one is demonizing.  LittleBlue   Oct-16-11 03:32 PM   #119 
                                      - President Obama said no one should do so, just because they disagree with protesters or businessmen.  ClarkUSA   Oct-16-11 03:40 PM   #124 
                                         - This is about OWS, not some Republican you read somewhere  LittleBlue   Oct-16-11 03:49 PM   #132 
                                            - This is not about OWS. It is about President Obama's full context which didn't mention OWS...  ClarkUSA   Oct-16-11 04:02 PM   #138 
                                               - Let me get this straight. You think  LittleBlue   Oct-16-11 04:22 PM   #144 
                                               - Deleted message  Name removed   Oct-16-11 04:30 PM   #147 
                                               - Pres. Obama spoke in allegory. His other references, which you're ignoring, are similarly framed.  ClarkUSA   Oct-16-11 06:06 PM   #167 
                    - He didn't even MENTION OWS!  EffieBlack   Oct-16-11 03:12 PM   #110 
                       - Oh really?  LittleBlue   Oct-16-11 03:41 PM   #126 
                       - NEITHER DID THE OP!!  ClassWarrior   Oct-16-11 04:21 PM   #143 
        - I can imagine how much you must hate listening to Dr. King's speeches  EffieBlack   Oct-16-11 02:37 PM   #101 
           - I could believe in hope if we had someone to place that hope in  LittleBlue   Oct-16-11 02:45 PM   #104 
              - Then maybe you should seek out a civil rights leader to put your hopes in . . .  EffieBlack   Oct-16-11 03:13 PM   #112 
                 - Maybe I should go to church and not bother voting.  LittleBlue   Oct-16-11 03:38 PM   #121 
  - Deleted message  Name removed   Oct-16-11 02:29 PM   #97 
  - Strong K&R. And what strikes me most about the responses  woo me with science   Oct-16-11 03:20 PM   #114 
  - Oy vay. Your conclusion reminds me of how sailors would see a manatee and swear it was a mermaid.  ClarkUSA   Oct-16-11 03:25 PM   #116 
  - +100000  LittleBlue   Oct-16-11 03:39 PM   #122 
  - Well said.  ClassWarrior   Oct-16-11 03:40 PM   #123 
  - Really?  ProSense   Oct-16-11 03:45 PM   #128 
     - Yes, really  LittleBlue   Oct-16-11 03:53 PM   #133 
     - And  ProSense   Oct-16-11 04:02 PM   #137 
     - self delete... double post...  ClassWarrior   Oct-16-11 03:53 PM   #134 
     - Do you believe that Corporate America routinely vilifies the right to collective bargain?  ClassWarrior   Oct-16-11 03:54 PM   #135 
        - ?  ClassWarrior   Oct-16-11 04:05 PM   #139 
        - Hmmm?  ProSense   Oct-16-11 04:05 PM   #140 
           - That's a yes. So do you believe that unemployed workers routinely demonize everyone who...  ClassWarrior   Oct-16-11 04:09 PM   #141 
              - Well?...  ClassWarrior   Oct-16-11 04:19 PM   #142 
              - Actually,  ProSense   Oct-16-11 04:25 PM   #145 
                 - Deleted sub-thread  Name removed   Oct-16-11 04:28 PM   #146 
                 - Are you for real?  LittleBlue   Oct-16-11 04:33 PM   #148 
                 - More  ProSense   Oct-16-11 04:50 PM   #151 
                 - You're right on one point, by the way. It's a strawman, a false equivalency and it doesn't even...  ClassWarrior   Oct-16-11 04:52 PM   #152 
                 - That's  ProSense   Oct-16-11 04:55 PM   #154 
                    - That's  ClassWarrior   Oct-16-11 05:13 PM   #156 
                 - Really?? You want us to believe that the Prez's statement actually SUPPORTS THE PROTESTERS??  ClassWarrior   Oct-16-11 04:59 PM   #155 
  - Good points.  yardwork   Oct-16-11 05:17 PM   #157 
  - Damn just Damn!  workinclasszero   Oct-16-11 03:40 PM   #125 
  - You got all that from a cherrypicked paraphrase that conveniently ignores full context? Damn.  ClarkUSA   Oct-16-11 03:46 PM   #129 
  - True to form, President Obama tip-toes expertly down the middle,  bvar22   Oct-16-11 04:49 PM   #150 
  - Rev 3:16 - So, because you are lukewarm, and neither hot nor cold, I will spit you out of my mouth.  yardwork   Oct-16-11 05:21 PM   #158 
  - That might apply to Roast Beef Sandwiches,  bvar22   Oct-16-11 06:45 PM   #172 
     - I agree, which was my point. No lukewarm. Jesus didn't like it either.  yardwork   Oct-16-11 09:45 PM   #182 
  - How does giving credence to a RW lie about the protesters "tip-toe down the middle??"  ClassWarrior   Oct-16-11 06:57 PM   #174 
  - Huge Unrec  BklnDem75   Oct-16-11 04:55 PM   #153 
  - Unrec. You should have posted the FULL quote.  Tx4obama   Oct-16-11 05:29 PM   #159 
  - Do you believe that Corporate America routinely vilifies the right to collectively bargain?  ClassWarrior   Oct-16-11 05:30 PM   #160 
     - YES. See Citizens United, Americans for Progress and Citizens for a Sound economy.  Mimosa   Oct-16-11 05:43 PM   #161 
     - Do you believe that unemployed workers routinely demonize everyone who works on Wall Street?  ClassWarrior   Oct-16-11 05:51 PM   #163 
        - Heck no.  Mimosa   Oct-16-11 06:02 PM   #165 
           - Then the President's statement is a false equivalency.  ClassWarrior   Oct-16-11 06:05 PM   #166 
     - Look at what the Obama administration does with teachers' unions.  JVS   Oct-16-11 07:17 PM   #179 
  - I really have a hard time imagining MLK speaking up on behalf of the persecuted of Wall Street  JVS   Oct-16-11 05:49 PM   #162 
  - I don't. I'm sure there are minimum wage workers on Wall Street who need a defender, just like...  ClassWarrior   Oct-16-11 06:31 PM   #168 
     - I don't think that the janitors on wall street are the ones Obama is talking about.  JVS   Oct-16-11 07:14 PM   #177 
  - Link to the ENTIRE speech by Pres. O in full context, not the OP's cherrypicked paraphrase. -->  ClarkUSA   Oct-16-11 06:33 PM   #170 
  - Obama Bad Obama Bad Obama Bad  JoePhilly   Oct-16-11 06:47 PM   #173 
  - i have nothing against secretaries and janitors who work there.  dionysus   Oct-16-11 07:10 PM   #176 
  - I'm going Godwin on this one. That's like challenging the injustice of the Nazi regime...  JVS   Oct-16-11 07:16 PM   #178 
  - No, it's not. Not even close.  Empowerer   Oct-16-11 07:19 PM   #180 
     - What would those who have lost family members on the altar of Wall Street's greed have to say?  JVS   Oct-16-11 07:24 PM   #181 
        - Wow.  Empowerer   Oct-17-11 10:33 PM   #189 
  - "Banksters"  boppers   Oct-16-11 10:27 PM   #183 
  - "Also, he'd be WAAAY into outsourcing. You know, statues, etc..." nt  Romulox   Oct-16-11 11:28 PM   #184 
  - the actual speech is good  Skittles   Oct-17-11 12:20 AM   #185 
  - If you think that was a pro-Wall Street statement, you're mistaken.  boxman15   Oct-17-11 10:58 PM   #190 
 

Home » Discuss » General Discussion: Presidency Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC