|
There is (or should be) more that unites us than separates us.
But re-reading this thread, I am struck with two observations: first, we can never have an honest discussion on the topic of race, so long as so many Democrats/Progressives/Liberals reflexively ascribe to themselves the suggested indictment directed of the few. It seems that whenever a Black person suggests that a Democrat/Progressive/Liberal's conduct MIGHT be interpretted as racist ... DUers close ranks, with great vigor and passion, dismissing the claim as unfounded.
But reading the defenses, they are mostly cast in terms of absolutionist terms, as if suggesting one Democrat/Progressive/Liberal of acting in a manner that can be interpretted as racist, is an indictment of all Democrats/Progressives/Liberals, and that specific DUer in particular.
Secondly, and relatedly, (and here my conspiracy theorist leanings show through brightly) we all know that republicans have been attempting to drive a wedge between Democrats/Progressives/Liberals, and it appears to be working. This, and other threads on the subject, show that Democrats/Progressives/Liberals CAN be divided on the issue of race.
It is my greatest fear that white Democrats/Progressives/Liberals will be a little less likely to support this Black president because "after all ... they called/think me a racist, anyway."
|
| -OH DAMN: Melissa Harris Perry re: Joan Walsh's comment "We are not friends." |
wndycty |
Sep-26-11 11:19 AM |
#0 |
-
Wow. I'm heading to the link now.... |
OneGrassRoot |
Sep-26-11 11:28 AM |
#1 |
 -
Apples. Oranges. |
Jakes Progress |
Sep-27-11 09:37 PM |
#175 |
-
Are you posting in response to me? |
OneGrassRoot |
Sep-27-11 10:24 PM |
#178 |
-
It was a reply to your post. It was not |
Jakes Progress |
Sep-28-11 08:28 AM |
#189 |
-
It may be easier for you to peruse the posts below, as I commented frequently.... |
OneGrassRoot |
Sep-28-11 09:03 AM |
#190 |
-
Thank you for a reasoned reply. |
Jakes Progress |
Sep-28-11 11:37 AM |
#196 |
-
Thank you... |
OneGrassRoot |
Sep-28-11 11:57 AM |
#197 |
-
ouch |
grasswire |
Sep-26-11 11:28 AM |
#2 |
-
Wow... |
hlthe2b |
Sep-26-11 11:29 AM |
#3 |
 -
It's worth reading her article at the link... |
OneGrassRoot |
Sep-26-11 11:35 AM |
#4 |
  -
I did.... And to suggest Clinton got a pass, while Obama is not... |
hlthe2b |
Sep-26-11 12:07 PM |
#25 |
 -
Several things... |
OneGrassRoot |
Sep-26-11 12:13 PM |
#28 |
 -
I think we are in broad agreement... |
hlthe2b |
Sep-26-11 12:18 PM |
#34 |
 -
I don't think that's what she's saying at all |
Empowerer |
Sep-26-11 11:48 AM |
#13 |
 -
Not that I expect you to understand |
Hutzpa |
Sep-26-11 12:07 PM |
#26 |
  -
Starting off a post to me "not that I expect you to understand" |
hlthe2b |
Sep-26-11 12:15 PM |
#29 |
   -
Ok, point taken point made |
Hutzpa |
Sep-26-11 12:21 PM |
#37 |
  -
thank you for recognizing that and replying.. |
hlthe2b |
Sep-26-11 12:22 PM |
#39 |
  -
Only Centrists consider Clinton to be 'one of the |
alsame |
Sep-26-11 12:52 PM |
#55 |
 -
Yes, you have mis-interpreted her point ... |
1StrongBlackMan |
Sep-26-11 09:54 PM |
#134 |
-
That is absolutely NOT what I am doing... |
hlthe2b |
Sep-27-11 12:34 AM |
#157 |
-
What is it about some DUers ... |
1StrongBlackMan |
Sep-27-11 09:52 PM |
#176 |
-
Wow - this is exactly the point I was trying to make in my OP in another thread |
Empowerer |
Sep-26-11 11:37 AM |
#5 |
 -
I wonder if and how Joan Walsh will respond |
wndycty |
Sep-26-11 11:39 AM |
#6 |
 -
That really is a key point. I'm still reading, but this passage... |
OneGrassRoot |
Sep-26-11 11:41 AM |
#8 |
-
people say "my friend" in public life a lot |
Enrique |
Sep-26-11 11:39 AM |
#7 |
 -
That's the only part of what Melissa said that I disagree with.... |
OneGrassRoot |
Sep-26-11 11:52 AM |
#16 |
  -
It was petty. And she basically called Joan a racist. I don't agree with that. |
boston bean |
Sep-26-11 12:05 PM |
#22 |
 -
I'm with Harris-Perry on this. I took Joan Walsh's comment literally. |
vaberella |
Sep-26-11 03:21 PM |
#94 |
-
An awesome blog. nt |
thereismore |
Sep-26-11 11:42 AM |
#9 |
-
I love that she called Joan Walsh to the carpet. Friends are different from social colleagues. Why |
Pisces |
Sep-26-11 11:42 AM |
#10 |
 -
I think it's really helpful to read both pieces that led to what Perry wrote here... |
OneGrassRoot |
Sep-26-11 11:56 AM |
#19 |
  -
Joan probably won't reply. I probably wouldn't. There is no place to go, once someone |
boston bean |
Sep-26-11 12:13 PM |
#27 |
 -
She apologized, I updated the OP to reflect that |
wndycty |
Sep-26-11 12:16 PM |
#30 |
  -
Walsh apologized for calling Melissa a friend, and that settle it? nt |
boston bean |
Sep-26-11 12:18 PM |
#32 |
 -
She'll know better next time. |
Supersedeas |
Sep-27-11 03:44 PM |
#166 |
 -
I'm hoping they both have the emotional wherewithal to move beyond it... |
OneGrassRoot |
Sep-26-11 12:17 PM |
#31 |
 -
I hope they don't and dialogue . . . I trust both will approach it constructively |
wndycty |
Sep-26-11 12:18 PM |
#33 |
 -
If someone thinks you are a racist, what conversation is there to be had. |
boston bean |
Sep-26-11 12:20 PM |
#35 |
 -
I simply disagree |
OneGrassRoot |
Sep-26-11 12:28 PM |
#41 |
  -
I completely agree with that assessment too |
Hutzpa |
Sep-26-11 12:45 PM |
#51 |
 -
I don't think its about Walsh defending herself, its about Walsh and Perry having a diaglogue |
wndycty |
Sep-26-11 12:47 PM |
#52 |
 -
Joan should defend herself, from what the racism accusation? |
boston bean |
Sep-26-11 12:48 PM |
#53 |
 -
MHP did not intimates Joan is a racist |
Hutzpa |
Sep-26-11 12:52 PM |
#56 |
 -
I have always understood, the i have black friends, to be a cover for being a racist. |
boston bean |
Sep-26-11 12:55 PM |
#57 |
 -
I don't see it that way at all |
Empowerer |
Sep-26-11 01:41 PM |
#70 |
 -
Same thing. If a white person says they have black friends they are laughed at, and |
boston bean |
Sep-26-11 01:44 PM |
#71 |
 -
No we are NOT saying the same thing |
Empowerer |
Sep-26-11 01:56 PM |
#76 |
  -
Yes, we are. Bias against what? |
boston bean |
Sep-26-11 02:29 PM |
#81 |
  -
I suggest ... |
1StrongBlackMan |
Sep-26-11 10:30 PM |
#141 |
 -
I think you're trying to use |
Hutzpa |
Sep-26-11 01:58 PM |
#77 |
 -
wow, the mine fields that we tread upon even when using terms of endearment |
Supersedeas |
Sep-27-11 02:45 PM |
#163 |
 -
I don't think MHP called JW a racist |
fishwax |
Sep-26-11 10:18 PM |
#136 |
  -
Well said! |
EffieBlack |
Sep-26-11 10:22 PM |
#139 |
  -
no, she said Walsh used it to |
boston bean |
Sep-27-11 08:02 AM |
#160 |
   -
I've read the words. I don't find the difference as significant as you do. |
fishwax |
Sep-27-11 10:01 AM |
#161 |
  -
Interesting... |
OneGrassRoot |
Sep-28-11 09:17 AM |
#191 |
 -
Something to think about ... Or not ... |
1StrongBlackMan |
Sep-26-11 10:19 PM |
#137 |
 -
it has a nice tautological ring of non-falsifiability to it...doesn't it |
Supersedeas |
Sep-26-11 10:54 PM |
#147 |
 -
Huh???? |
1StrongBlackMan |
Sep-27-11 11:59 PM |
#184 |
 -
and we "white" people can not begin to understand the whole |
a kennedy |
Sep-26-11 06:16 PM |
#116 |
-
If that was not meant to be sarcastic ... |
1StrongBlackMan |
Sep-26-11 10:51 PM |
#146 |
-
She's so well written |
JustAnotherGen |
Sep-26-11 11:43 AM |
#11 |
-
It's a shame to see this back and forth between them |
Cali_Democrat |
Sep-26-11 11:48 AM |
#12 |
 -
Maybe it does. . .hopefully Walsh will respond in a constructive manner. . . |
wndycty |
Sep-26-11 11:49 AM |
#15 |
-
It absolutely exists. My white uncle voted Democratic in every election of his life, until Obama. |
Zen Democrat |
Sep-26-11 11:48 AM |
#14 |
 -
I always point out that Obama is also half white. You can see the lights turn on... |
Frustratedlady |
Sep-26-11 12:26 PM |
#40 |
 -
But this is about white liberals ABANDONING Obama. Your uncle was never on board, |
seaglass |
Sep-26-11 12:32 PM |
#44 |
 -
Then he's not one of the ones who's "abandoned" the president |
Doctor_J |
Sep-26-11 12:32 PM |
#45 |
 -
Note that your uncle did not vote for Obama in 2008. The racists already showed their cards. |
yardwork |
Sep-26-11 07:36 PM |
#121 |
-
From a Black Perspective |
Cigar11 |
Sep-26-11 11:52 AM |
#17 |
 -
Welcome to DU cigar |
wndycty |
Sep-26-11 11:54 AM |
#18 |
 -
It absolutely does, but liberals current treatment of Obama isn't exemplary of it. |
lumberjack_jeff |
Sep-26-11 12:05 PM |
#21 |
 -
Welcome, and I couldn't agree more.... |
OneGrassRoot |
Sep-26-11 12:06 PM |
#24 |
 -
thank you. I was going to write a long list of crap but why bother. |
okieinpain |
Sep-26-11 12:56 PM |
#58 |
 -
'Racism still exists' is not the issue |
Mr Deltoid |
Sep-26-11 01:29 PM |
#66 |
  -
But that's the point: Many of us... |
OneGrassRoot |
Sep-27-11 10:44 PM |
#181 |
 -
Amen. I live in New York City---Harlem---and every day I prepare myself for racism. |
vaberella |
Sep-26-11 03:22 PM |
#95 |
 -
Thank you Cigar11.... |
a kennedy |
Sep-26-11 06:20 PM |
#118 |
-
wow, she took Walsh's words about their professional friendship like that? |
boston bean |
Sep-26-11 11:56 AM |
#20 |
 -
Then I have far fewer friends than I thought I did. n/t |
lumberjack_jeff |
Sep-26-11 12:06 PM |
#23 |
  -
I can understand why you have a problem w/Prof Perry's response regarding the "friendship" |
Empowerer |
Sep-26-11 12:28 PM |
#42 |
   -
Yeah Joan Walsh meant to say, I have black friends so I am not a racist? |
boston bean |
Sep-26-11 12:43 PM |
#49 |
    -
What is with this obsession with turning every discussion about bias, prejudice and sensitivity into |
Empowerer |
Sep-26-11 01:48 PM |
#73 |
    -
"Intimating someone like Joan Walsh a racist is completely out of bounds." |
CakeGrrl |
Sep-26-11 01:52 PM |
#74 |
   -
And no one "intimated" that she was a racist |
Empowerer |
Sep-26-11 01:55 PM |
#75 |
   -
...deploy our professional familiarity as a shield against claims of her own bias is very troubling. |
lumberjack_jeff |
Sep-26-11 02:11 PM |
#79 |
   -
Bias does not equal racism |
Empowerer |
Sep-26-11 02:17 PM |
#80 |
   -
I am glad I am so interesting to you. Are you bias? and what is your racial bias? |
boston bean |
Sep-26-11 02:31 PM |
#82 |
    -
I have all kinds of prejudices, as do most human beings |
Empowerer |
Sep-26-11 02:39 PM |
#84 |
   -
That is for you to do. Melissa Perry did not do that. She made an accusation of it. |
boston bean |
Sep-26-11 02:47 PM |
#86 |
   -
Trust me - if I wanted to call you a racist, I'd just call you one |
Empowerer |
Sep-26-11 02:53 PM |
#87 |
   -
There is no morphing. There is little distinction between racial bias and racism. |
boston bean |
Sep-26-11 02:55 PM |
#88 |
   -
Introspection. |
lumberjack_jeff |
Sep-26-11 02:33 PM |
#83 |
    -
That's very interesting |
Empowerer |
Sep-26-11 02:46 PM |
#85 |
   -
Maybe if MHP had not humiliated her in PUBLIC it wouldn't have been a insult. |
Little Star |
Sep-26-11 04:47 PM |
#106 |
   -
I have much more concern for Joan's feelings because MHP is the one... |
Little Star |
Sep-26-11 04:34 PM |
#104 |
   -
Or perhaps Walsh simply overestimated the value of "a few meals" with her. |
lumberjack_jeff |
Sep-26-11 02:04 PM |
#78 |
  -
Maybe ... |
1StrongBlackMan |
Sep-26-11 10:39 PM |
#143 |
  -
You're right. Perspective (and perception) are everything... |
OneGrassRoot |
Sep-27-11 07:53 AM |
#159 |
  -
"Yet it did strike me as odd, even mean-spirited." WHY? |
Karenina |
Sep-27-11 04:49 PM |
#168 |
  -
No, and that was my point, Karenina... |
OneGrassRoot |
Sep-27-11 05:43 PM |
#171 |
  -
And that ... |
1StrongBlackMan |
Sep-27-11 09:01 PM |
#173 |
  -
AMEN! Thank you OneGrassRoot!!! |
Karenina |
Sep-28-11 03:54 AM |
#186 |
  -
... |
OneGrassRoot |
Sep-28-11 09:23 AM |
#192 |
  -
Another truth that can set you free? |
Supersedeas |
Sep-27-11 03:25 PM |
#165 |
 -
I feel the loss of some more keenly than others. n/t |
lumberjack_jeff |
Sep-27-11 04:24 PM |
#167 |
 -
That's not a friend. I don't know where this professional friends BS comes from. |
vaberella |
Sep-26-11 03:24 PM |
#96 |
-
Compare how they each describe their relationship: |
Bluenorthwest |
Sep-26-11 10:03 PM |
#135 |
 -
Drawing a clear line in the sand |
Supersedeas |
Sep-27-11 01:50 PM |
#162 |
-
professional friends bs? |
Supersedeas |
Sep-28-11 10:26 AM |
#193 |
-
"I make it a practice not to defend my public writings" |
Enrique |
Sep-26-11 12:21 PM |
#36 |
 -
Letter from Birmingham Jail. Nice eye. Hard to guess. |
chill_wind |
Sep-26-11 08:46 PM |
#123 |
 -
Good catch! I wonder if it was deliberate or subconscious too. |
polichick |
Sep-26-11 09:54 PM |
#133 |
-
Well that was taken wildly out of context |
Prism |
Sep-26-11 12:21 PM |
#38 |
 -
Well said, Prism. I only disagree with the very last sentence.... |
OneGrassRoot |
Sep-26-11 12:30 PM |
#43 |
-
They're both very intelligent women |
Prism |
Sep-26-11 12:36 PM |
#46 |
-
You should read their Facebook walls. LOL n/t |
OneGrassRoot |
Sep-26-11 12:45 PM |
#50 |
-
Looks like the circular firing squad has now ascended to the punditry |
Mr Deltoid |
Sep-26-11 12:37 PM |
#47 |
-
Perry is spot-on. Walsh did overreach with her "I have black friends" strategy of argument. |
ClarkUSA |
Sep-26-11 12:42 PM |
#48 |
 -
I disagree. |
OneGrassRoot |
Sep-26-11 12:48 PM |
#54 |
-
I respect your opinion but I stand by what I said. |
ClarkUSA |
Sep-26-11 01:00 PM |
#59 |
-
Okay |
OneGrassRoot |
Sep-26-11 01:09 PM |
#60 |
-
Anyone you work with is a colleague. |
emcguffie |
Sep-26-11 03:04 PM |
#91 |
-
Melissa went off the fucking deep. She can't write something like that... |
xultar |
Sep-26-11 01:13 PM |
#61 |
 -
;) |
wndycty |
Sep-26-11 01:15 PM |
#62 |
  -
Y U so crazy? Rofl. I just saw u a sec ago! |
xultar |
Sep-26-11 01:36 PM |
#67 |
 -
Xultar... haven't seen you in eons... |
hlthe2b |
Sep-26-11 01:16 PM |
#63 |
-
xoxoxo |
xultar |
Sep-26-11 01:37 PM |
#68 |
-
When all you have is a hammer, every problem you encounter looks like a nail |
MadHound |
Sep-26-11 01:17 PM |
#64 |
 -
Bingo!!! |
Beacool |
Sep-26-11 01:46 PM |
#72 |
 -
I agree MadHound except it started with her mouth about... |
Little Star |
Sep-26-11 04:42 PM |
#105 |
  -
Started with her mouth? Are you calling her uppity? Seriously dude/dudette. . . |
wndycty |
Sep-26-11 05:14 PM |
#108 |
   -
pffftttt |
Little Star |
Sep-26-11 05:45 PM |
#113 |
  -
She disagreed with Oprah and Michelle so she needs to sit down and shut up? |
Empowerer |
Sep-26-11 05:31 PM |
#111 |
   -
She thought she spoke for all black women and was embarrassed |
Little Star |
Sep-26-11 05:50 PM |
#114 |
  -
You know what she was thinking? And you know that she thought she was speaking for all black women? |
EffieBlack |
Sep-26-11 10:30 PM |
#142 |
  -
"She just needs to sit down and shut up for a while and get herself some help." |
fishwax |
Sep-26-11 10:26 PM |
#140 |
  -
"sit down and shut up" |
tammywammy |
Sep-26-11 11:24 PM |
#154 |
 -
she certainly didn't give much credance to the political side of this |
Supersedeas |
Sep-28-11 11:23 AM |
#195 |
-
i.e. "I don't drink with you" |
Enrique |
Sep-26-11 01:19 PM |
#65 |
 -
Perfect! |
yardwork |
Sep-26-11 07:37 PM |
#122 |
-
IMHO..... |
Little Star |
Sep-26-11 01:38 PM |
#69 |
 -
I don't think this is a question of anger management on MHP's part. |
COLGATE4 |
Sep-26-11 03:20 PM |
#93 |
  -
I'm sorry but I see it as a deep held anger. Snark is way to mild for |
Little Star |
Sep-26-11 04:22 PM |
#102 |
 -
She went off on the film "The Help" recently too... |
polichick |
Sep-26-11 09:13 PM |
#127 |
-
Ms. Harris-Perry needs to take a chill pill. |
Vinca |
Sep-26-11 02:57 PM |
#89 |
 -
Oh brother |
wndycty |
Sep-26-11 03:01 PM |
#90 |
  -
I'm with you. n/t |
vaberella |
Sep-26-11 03:25 PM |
#97 |
 -
Yeah...who the hell does she think she is, speaking her mind and all. |
Bobbie Jo |
Sep-26-11 03:18 PM |
#92 |
 -
You wouldn't be suggesting that she "sit down and shut up", would you? |
CakeGrrl |
Sep-26-11 03:34 PM |
#99 |
  -
People are turning themselves inside out on this... |
These Eyes |
Sep-26-11 04:12 PM |
#100 |
   -
If you're a liberal Democrat and white, you, too, may be considered a racist. |
Vinca |
Sep-26-11 04:27 PM |
#103 |
  -
That has never been the meme... |
These Eyes |
Sep-26-11 05:41 PM |
#112 |
   -
And this is the reason I'm taking issue as well. |
CakeGrrl |
Sep-26-11 11:18 PM |
#151 |
  -
What you said. n/t |
OneGrassRoot |
Sep-27-11 10:45 PM |
#182 |
  -
who is saying "Obama 100% or you're a racist"? |
fishwax |
Sep-28-11 11:00 AM |
#194 |
  -
No, I'm not. I'm suggesting she be a bit more civil to people. |
Vinca |
Sep-26-11 04:22 PM |
#101 |
  -
LOL - that's ridiculous! |
polichick |
Sep-26-11 09:08 PM |
#126 |
 -
Oops, you're right! That was way back up there at post 105. |
CakeGrrl |
Sep-26-11 11:07 PM |
#150 |
 -
Now you've done it, you racist you! |
polichick |
Sep-26-11 09:07 PM |
#125 |
-
big rec. |
Whisp |
Sep-26-11 03:29 PM |
#98 |
-
Here's a perfect example of Perry's point |
ProSense |
Sep-26-11 05:01 PM |
#107 |
 -
I don't remember Clinton's liberal rhetoric |
Enrique |
Sep-26-11 05:21 PM |
#109 |
-
Well |
ProSense |
Sep-26-11 05:23 PM |
#110 |
-
That's kind of rude of Perry. Pols and pundits often say that as a |
Phx_Dem |
Sep-26-11 05:56 PM |
#115 |
-
Obama was elected because he was not Bush |
Marnie |
Sep-26-11 06:17 PM |
#117 |
 -
I'm white & was an early supporter of Obama. I did NOT vote for him because he wasn't Bush r McCain |
Honeycombe8 |
Sep-26-11 07:25 PM |
#119 |
 -
So you'd be saying that of any white Democrat? |
treestar |
Sep-26-11 09:20 PM |
#130 |
-
Whoa. Perry's pretty rude, huh? Something must have really gotten to her. nt |
Honeycombe8 |
Sep-26-11 07:27 PM |
#120 |
-
I'm more inclined to hold this rebuttal against Perry than Walsh. |
Chan790 |
Sep-26-11 09:00 PM |
#124 |
 -
Agree and believe this hurts Perry professionally more than Walsh. |
kiranon |
Sep-27-11 03:17 PM |
#164 |
-
I'm liking MHP more and more every day. |
Number23 |
Sep-26-11 09:14 PM |
#128 |
-
I just read through this thread. Don't know why I did. |
Number23 |
Sep-26-11 09:17 PM |
#129 |
 -
Why can't some white people ... |
1StrongBlackMan |
Sep-26-11 10:59 PM |
#148 |
  -
And these folks don't seem to recognize the absurdity of |
EffieBlack |
Sep-26-11 11:06 PM |
#149 |
   -
+1 |
young but wise |
Sep-27-11 07:00 AM |
#158 |
  -
There are more on this thread who act like arbiters than I would have expected |
Mimosa |
Sep-27-11 05:26 PM |
#169 |
 -
I agree ... |
1StrongBlackMan |
Sep-27-11 08:54 PM |
#172 |
 -
MARRY ME!!! +1,000,000,000!!! n/t |
Liberal_Stalwart71 |
Sep-27-11 09:02 PM |
#174 |
  -
Get in line!!! |
OneGrassRoot |
Sep-27-11 10:27 PM |
#179 |
 -
We think alike. ;) |
Mimosa |
Sep-27-11 09:59 PM |
#177 |
 -
I make my young political science studies watch "Network" every semester. |
Liberal_Stalwart71 |
Sep-27-11 10:48 PM |
#183 |
 -
+1 n/t |
tammywammy |
Sep-26-11 11:22 PM |
#152 |
-
Melissa Hariss-Petty |
Bluenorthwest |
Sep-26-11 09:31 PM |
#131 |
 -
"Black clergy vow: No gay marriage in N.C." |
WorseBeforeBetter |
Sep-26-11 11:24 PM |
#153 |
 -
I thought you liked her assessment of the Prop 8 decision. I thought you said... |
These Eyes |
Sep-26-11 11:27 PM |
#155 |
-
I think Dr. Harris-Perry has mishandled this one. |
John Agar |
Sep-26-11 09:38 PM |
#132 |
-
Sad that it is coming to this. |
blueclown |
Sep-26-11 10:20 PM |
#138 |
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well you do realize Joan Walsh called her out |
wndycty |
Sep-26-11 10:44 PM |
#144 |
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Deleted sub-thread |
Name removed |
Sep-26-11 10:48 PM |
#145 |
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This is more of a discussion of celebrity journalism |
swilton |
Sep-26-11 11:58 PM |
#156 |
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ITA! |
Mimosa |
Sep-27-11 05:27 PM |
#170 |
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If anyone is serious about having an ongoing discussion about racism and bigotry... |
OneGrassRoot |
Sep-27-11 10:38 PM |
#180 |
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Count This Black Man In! n/t |
1StrongBlackMan |
Sep-28-11 12:06 AM |
#185 |
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Yay! Thanks. :) n/t |
OneGrassRoot |
Sep-28-11 05:54 AM |
#188 |
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I think Perry in at least one place is arguing with a straw man. Most of the criticisms of her piece |
BzaDem |
Sep-28-11 04:46 AM |
#187 |
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Wow, tries changing the story right off... |
iamthebandfanman |
Sep-28-11 12:17 PM |
#198 |