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Reply #55: Only Centrists consider Clinton to be 'one of the [View All]

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alsame Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-26-11 12:52 PM
Response to Reply #26
55. Only Centrists consider Clinton to be 'one of the
best Democratic presidents ever.' Most liberals and progressives think he was/is GOP-lite/DLC/Third Way. I'm talking about people in real life, not what the media pundits say.

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  -OH DAMN: Melissa Harris Perry re: Joan Walsh's comment "We are not friends." wndycty  Sep-26-11 11:19 AM   #0 
  - Wow. I'm heading to the link now....  OneGrassRoot   Sep-26-11 11:28 AM   #1 
  - Apples. Oranges.  Jakes Progress   Sep-27-11 09:37 PM   #175 
     - Are you posting in response to me?  OneGrassRoot   Sep-27-11 10:24 PM   #178 
        - It was a reply to your post. It was not  Jakes Progress   Sep-28-11 08:28 AM   #189 
           - It may be easier for you to peruse the posts below, as I commented frequently....  OneGrassRoot   Sep-28-11 09:03 AM   #190 
              - Thank you for a reasoned reply.  Jakes Progress   Sep-28-11 11:37 AM   #196 
                 - Thank you...  OneGrassRoot   Sep-28-11 11:57 AM   #197 
  - ouch  grasswire   Sep-26-11 11:28 AM   #2 
  - Wow...  hlthe2b   Sep-26-11 11:29 AM   #3 
  - It's worth reading her article at the link...  OneGrassRoot   Sep-26-11 11:35 AM   #4 
  - I did.... And to suggest Clinton got a pass, while Obama is not...  hlthe2b   Sep-26-11 12:07 PM   #25 
     - Several things...  OneGrassRoot   Sep-26-11 12:13 PM   #28 
        - I think we are in broad agreement...  hlthe2b   Sep-26-11 12:18 PM   #34 
  - I don't think that's what she's saying at all  Empowerer   Sep-26-11 11:48 AM   #13 
  - Not that I expect you to understand  Hutzpa   Sep-26-11 12:07 PM   #26 
  - Starting off a post to me "not that I expect you to understand"  hlthe2b   Sep-26-11 12:15 PM   #29 
  - Ok, point taken point made  Hutzpa   Sep-26-11 12:21 PM   #37 
     - thank you for recognizing that and replying..  hlthe2b   Sep-26-11 12:22 PM   #39 
  - Only Centrists consider Clinton to be 'one of the  alsame   Sep-26-11 12:52 PM   #55 
  - Yes, you have mis-interpreted her point ...  1StrongBlackMan   Sep-26-11 09:54 PM   #134 
     - That is absolutely NOT what I am doing...  hlthe2b   Sep-27-11 12:34 AM   #157 
        - What is it about some DUers ...  1StrongBlackMan   Sep-27-11 09:52 PM   #176 
  - Wow - this is exactly the point I was trying to make in my OP in another thread  Empowerer   Sep-26-11 11:37 AM   #5 
  - I wonder if and how Joan Walsh will respond  wndycty   Sep-26-11 11:39 AM   #6 
  - That really is a key point. I'm still reading, but this passage...  OneGrassRoot   Sep-26-11 11:41 AM   #8 
  - people say "my friend" in public life a lot  Enrique   Sep-26-11 11:39 AM   #7 
  - That's the only part of what Melissa said that I disagree with....  OneGrassRoot   Sep-26-11 11:52 AM   #16 
  - It was petty. And she basically called Joan a racist. I don't agree with that.  boston bean   Sep-26-11 12:05 PM   #22 
  - I'm with Harris-Perry on this. I took Joan Walsh's comment literally.  vaberella   Sep-26-11 03:21 PM   #94 
  - An awesome blog. nt  thereismore   Sep-26-11 11:42 AM   #9 
  - I love that she called Joan Walsh to the carpet. Friends are different from social colleagues. Why  Pisces   Sep-26-11 11:42 AM   #10 
  - I think it's really helpful to read both pieces that led to what Perry wrote here...  OneGrassRoot   Sep-26-11 11:56 AM   #19 
  - Joan probably won't reply. I probably wouldn't. There is no place to go, once someone  boston bean   Sep-26-11 12:13 PM   #27 
     - She apologized, I updated the OP to reflect that  wndycty   Sep-26-11 12:16 PM   #30 
     - Walsh apologized for calling Melissa a friend, and that settle it? nt  boston bean   Sep-26-11 12:18 PM   #32 
        - She'll know better next time.  Supersedeas   Sep-27-11 03:44 PM   #166 
     - I'm hoping they both have the emotional wherewithal to move beyond it...  OneGrassRoot   Sep-26-11 12:17 PM   #31 
        - I hope they don't and dialogue . . . I trust both will approach it constructively  wndycty   Sep-26-11 12:18 PM   #33 
        - If someone thinks you are a racist, what conversation is there to be had.  boston bean   Sep-26-11 12:20 PM   #35 
           - I simply disagree  OneGrassRoot   Sep-26-11 12:28 PM   #41 
           - I completely agree with that assessment too  Hutzpa   Sep-26-11 12:45 PM   #51 
              - I don't think its about Walsh defending herself, its about Walsh and Perry having a diaglogue  wndycty   Sep-26-11 12:47 PM   #52 
              - Joan should defend herself, from what the racism accusation?  boston bean   Sep-26-11 12:48 PM   #53 
                 - MHP did not intimates Joan is a racist  Hutzpa   Sep-26-11 12:52 PM   #56 
                    - I have always understood, the i have black friends, to be a cover for being a racist.  boston bean   Sep-26-11 12:55 PM   #57 
                       - I don't see it that way at all  Empowerer   Sep-26-11 01:41 PM   #70 
                          - Same thing. If a white person says they have black friends they are laughed at, and  boston bean   Sep-26-11 01:44 PM   #71 
                             - No we are NOT saying the same thing  Empowerer   Sep-26-11 01:56 PM   #76 
                             - Yes, we are. Bias against what?  boston bean   Sep-26-11 02:29 PM   #81 
                             - I suggest ...  1StrongBlackMan   Sep-26-11 10:30 PM   #141 
                             - I think you're trying to use  Hutzpa   Sep-26-11 01:58 PM   #77 
                                - wow, the mine fields that we tread upon even when using terms of endearment  Supersedeas   Sep-27-11 02:45 PM   #163 
           - I don't think MHP called JW a racist  fishwax   Sep-26-11 10:18 PM   #136 
           - Well said!  EffieBlack   Sep-26-11 10:22 PM   #139 
           - no, she said Walsh used it to  boston bean   Sep-27-11 08:02 AM   #160 
           - I've read the words. I don't find the difference as significant as you do.  fishwax   Sep-27-11 10:01 AM   #161 
           - Interesting...  OneGrassRoot   Sep-28-11 09:17 AM   #191 
           - Something to think about ... Or not ...  1StrongBlackMan   Sep-26-11 10:19 PM   #137 
              - it has a nice tautological ring of non-falsifiability to it...doesn't it  Supersedeas   Sep-26-11 10:54 PM   #147 
                 - Huh????  1StrongBlackMan   Sep-27-11 11:59 PM   #184 
  - and we "white" people can not begin to understand the whole  a kennedy   Sep-26-11 06:16 PM   #116 
     - If that was not meant to be sarcastic ...  1StrongBlackMan   Sep-26-11 10:51 PM   #146 
  - She's so well written  JustAnotherGen   Sep-26-11 11:43 AM   #11 
  - It's a shame to see this back and forth between them  Cali_Democrat   Sep-26-11 11:48 AM   #12 
  - Maybe it does. . .hopefully Walsh will respond in a constructive manner. . .  wndycty   Sep-26-11 11:49 AM   #15 
  - It absolutely exists. My white uncle voted Democratic in every election of his life, until Obama.  Zen Democrat   Sep-26-11 11:48 AM   #14 
  - I always point out that Obama is also half white. You can see the lights turn on...  Frustratedlady   Sep-26-11 12:26 PM   #40 
  - But this is about white liberals ABANDONING Obama. Your uncle was never on board,  seaglass   Sep-26-11 12:32 PM   #44 
  - Then he's not one of the ones who's "abandoned" the president  Doctor_J   Sep-26-11 12:32 PM   #45 
  - Note that your uncle did not vote for Obama in 2008. The racists already showed their cards.  yardwork   Sep-26-11 07:36 PM   #121 
  - From a Black Perspective  Cigar11   Sep-26-11 11:52 AM   #17 
  - Welcome to DU cigar  wndycty   Sep-26-11 11:54 AM   #18 
  - It absolutely does, but liberals current treatment of Obama isn't exemplary of it.  lumberjack_jeff   Sep-26-11 12:05 PM   #21 
  - Welcome, and I couldn't agree more....  OneGrassRoot   Sep-26-11 12:06 PM   #24 
  - thank you. I was going to write a long list of crap but why bother.  okieinpain   Sep-26-11 12:56 PM   #58 
  - 'Racism still exists' is not the issue  Mr Deltoid   Sep-26-11 01:29 PM   #66 
  - But that's the point: Many of us...  OneGrassRoot   Sep-27-11 10:44 PM   #181 
  - Amen. I live in New York City---Harlem---and every day I prepare myself for racism.  vaberella   Sep-26-11 03:22 PM   #95 
  - Thank you Cigar11....  a kennedy   Sep-26-11 06:20 PM   #118 
  - wow, she took Walsh's words about their professional friendship like that?  boston bean   Sep-26-11 11:56 AM   #20 
  - Then I have far fewer friends than I thought I did. n/t  lumberjack_jeff   Sep-26-11 12:06 PM   #23 
  - I can understand why you have a problem w/Prof Perry's response regarding the "friendship"  Empowerer   Sep-26-11 12:28 PM   #42 
  - Yeah Joan Walsh meant to say, I have black friends so I am not a racist?  boston bean   Sep-26-11 12:43 PM   #49 
  - What is with this obsession with turning every discussion about bias, prejudice and sensitivity into  Empowerer   Sep-26-11 01:48 PM   #73 
  - "Intimating someone like Joan Walsh a racist is completely out of bounds."  CakeGrrl   Sep-26-11 01:52 PM   #74 
     - And no one "intimated" that she was a racist  Empowerer   Sep-26-11 01:55 PM   #75 
        - ...deploy our professional familiarity as a shield against claims of her own bias is very troubling.  lumberjack_jeff   Sep-26-11 02:11 PM   #79 
           - Bias does not equal racism  Empowerer   Sep-26-11 02:17 PM   #80 
              - I am glad I am so interesting to you. Are you bias? and what is your racial bias?  boston bean   Sep-26-11 02:31 PM   #82 
              - I have all kinds of prejudices, as do most human beings  Empowerer   Sep-26-11 02:39 PM   #84 
                 - That is for you to do. Melissa Perry did not do that. She made an accusation of it.  boston bean   Sep-26-11 02:47 PM   #86 
                    - Trust me - if I wanted to call you a racist, I'd just call you one  Empowerer   Sep-26-11 02:53 PM   #87 
                       - There is no morphing. There is little distinction between racial bias and racism.  boston bean   Sep-26-11 02:55 PM   #88 
              - Introspection.  lumberjack_jeff   Sep-26-11 02:33 PM   #83 
              - That's very interesting  Empowerer   Sep-26-11 02:46 PM   #85 
                 - Maybe if MHP had not humiliated her in PUBLIC it wouldn't have been a insult.  Little Star   Sep-26-11 04:47 PM   #106 
              - I have much more concern for Joan's feelings because MHP is the one...  Little Star   Sep-26-11 04:34 PM   #104 
  - Or perhaps Walsh simply overestimated the value of "a few meals" with her.  lumberjack_jeff   Sep-26-11 02:04 PM   #78 
     - Maybe ...  1StrongBlackMan   Sep-26-11 10:39 PM   #143 
        - You're right. Perspective (and perception) are everything...  OneGrassRoot   Sep-27-11 07:53 AM   #159 
           - "Yet it did strike me as odd, even mean-spirited." WHY?  Karenina   Sep-27-11 04:49 PM   #168 
              - No, and that was my point, Karenina...  OneGrassRoot   Sep-27-11 05:43 PM   #171 
                 - And that ...  1StrongBlackMan   Sep-27-11 09:01 PM   #173 
                    - AMEN! Thank you OneGrassRoot!!!  Karenina   Sep-28-11 03:54 AM   #186 
                       - ...  OneGrassRoot   Sep-28-11 09:23 AM   #192 
  - Another truth that can set you free?  Supersedeas   Sep-27-11 03:25 PM   #165 
     - I feel the loss of some more keenly than others. n/t  lumberjack_jeff   Sep-27-11 04:24 PM   #167 
  - That's not a friend. I don't know where this professional friends BS comes from.  vaberella   Sep-26-11 03:24 PM   #96 
     - Compare how they each describe their relationship:  Bluenorthwest   Sep-26-11 10:03 PM   #135 
     - Drawing a clear line in the sand  Supersedeas   Sep-27-11 01:50 PM   #162 
     - professional friends bs?  Supersedeas   Sep-28-11 10:26 AM   #193 
  - "I make it a practice not to defend my public writings"  Enrique   Sep-26-11 12:21 PM   #36 
  - Letter from Birmingham Jail. Nice eye. Hard to guess.  chill_wind   Sep-26-11 08:46 PM   #123 
  - Good catch! I wonder if it was deliberate or subconscious too.  polichick   Sep-26-11 09:54 PM   #133 
  - Well that was taken wildly out of context  Prism   Sep-26-11 12:21 PM   #38 
  - Well said, Prism. I only disagree with the very last sentence....  OneGrassRoot   Sep-26-11 12:30 PM   #43 
     - They're both very intelligent women  Prism   Sep-26-11 12:36 PM   #46 
        - You should read their Facebook walls. LOL n/t  OneGrassRoot   Sep-26-11 12:45 PM   #50 
  - Looks like the circular firing squad has now ascended to the punditry  Mr Deltoid   Sep-26-11 12:37 PM   #47 
  - Perry is spot-on. Walsh did overreach with her "I have black friends" strategy of argument.  ClarkUSA   Sep-26-11 12:42 PM   #48 
  - I disagree.  OneGrassRoot   Sep-26-11 12:48 PM   #54 
     - I respect your opinion but I stand by what I said.  ClarkUSA   Sep-26-11 01:00 PM   #59 
        - Okay  OneGrassRoot   Sep-26-11 01:09 PM   #60 
        - Anyone you work with is a colleague.  emcguffie   Sep-26-11 03:04 PM   #91 
  - Melissa went off the fucking deep. She can't write something like that...  xultar   Sep-26-11 01:13 PM   #61 
  - ;)  wndycty   Sep-26-11 01:15 PM   #62 
  - Y U so crazy? Rofl. I just saw u a sec ago!  xultar   Sep-26-11 01:36 PM   #67 
  - Xultar... haven't seen you in eons...  hlthe2b   Sep-26-11 01:16 PM   #63 
     - xoxoxo  xultar   Sep-26-11 01:37 PM   #68 
  - When all you have is a hammer, every problem you encounter looks like a nail  MadHound   Sep-26-11 01:17 PM   #64 
  - Bingo!!!  Beacool   Sep-26-11 01:46 PM   #72 
  - I agree MadHound except it started with her mouth about...  Little Star   Sep-26-11 04:42 PM   #105 
  - Started with her mouth? Are you calling her uppity? Seriously dude/dudette. . .  wndycty   Sep-26-11 05:14 PM   #108 
  - pffftttt  Little Star   Sep-26-11 05:45 PM   #113 
  - She disagreed with Oprah and Michelle so she needs to sit down and shut up?  Empowerer   Sep-26-11 05:31 PM   #111 
  - She thought she spoke for all black women and was embarrassed  Little Star   Sep-26-11 05:50 PM   #114 
     - You know what she was thinking? And you know that she thought she was speaking for all black women?  EffieBlack   Sep-26-11 10:30 PM   #142 
  - "She just needs to sit down and shut up for a while and get herself some help."  fishwax   Sep-26-11 10:26 PM   #140 
  - "sit down and shut up"  tammywammy   Sep-26-11 11:24 PM   #154 
  - she certainly didn't give much credance to the political side of this  Supersedeas   Sep-28-11 11:23 AM   #195 
  - i.e. "I don't drink with you"  Enrique   Sep-26-11 01:19 PM   #65 
  - Perfect!  yardwork   Sep-26-11 07:37 PM   #122 
  - IMHO.....  Little Star   Sep-26-11 01:38 PM   #69 
  - I don't think this is a question of anger management on MHP's part.  COLGATE4   Sep-26-11 03:20 PM   #93 
  - I'm sorry but I see it as a deep held anger. Snark is way to mild for  Little Star   Sep-26-11 04:22 PM   #102 
  - She went off on the film "The Help" recently too...  polichick   Sep-26-11 09:13 PM   #127 
  - Ms. Harris-Perry needs to take a chill pill.  Vinca   Sep-26-11 02:57 PM   #89 
  - Oh brother  wndycty   Sep-26-11 03:01 PM   #90 
  - I'm with you. n/t  vaberella   Sep-26-11 03:25 PM   #97 
  - Yeah...who the hell does she think she is, speaking her mind and all.  Bobbie Jo   Sep-26-11 03:18 PM   #92 
  - You wouldn't be suggesting that she "sit down and shut up", would you?  CakeGrrl   Sep-26-11 03:34 PM   #99 
  - People are turning themselves inside out on this...  These Eyes   Sep-26-11 04:12 PM   #100 
  - If you're a liberal Democrat and white, you, too, may be considered a racist.  Vinca   Sep-26-11 04:27 PM   #103 
     - That has never been the meme...  These Eyes   Sep-26-11 05:41 PM   #112 
     - And this is the reason I'm taking issue as well.  CakeGrrl   Sep-26-11 11:18 PM   #151 
        - What you said. n/t  OneGrassRoot   Sep-27-11 10:45 PM   #182 
     - who is saying "Obama 100% or you're a racist"?  fishwax   Sep-28-11 11:00 AM   #194 
  - No, I'm not. I'm suggesting she be a bit more civil to people.  Vinca   Sep-26-11 04:22 PM   #101 
  - LOL - that's ridiculous!  polichick   Sep-26-11 09:08 PM   #126 
     - Oops, you're right! That was way back up there at post 105.  CakeGrrl   Sep-26-11 11:07 PM   #150 
  - Now you've done it, you racist you!  polichick   Sep-26-11 09:07 PM   #125 
  - big rec.  Whisp   Sep-26-11 03:29 PM   #98 
  - Here's a perfect example of Perry's point  ProSense   Sep-26-11 05:01 PM   #107 
  - I don't remember Clinton's liberal rhetoric  Enrique   Sep-26-11 05:21 PM   #109 
     - Well  ProSense   Sep-26-11 05:23 PM   #110 
  - That's kind of rude of Perry. Pols and pundits often say that as a  Phx_Dem   Sep-26-11 05:56 PM   #115 
  - Obama was elected because he was not Bush  Marnie   Sep-26-11 06:17 PM   #117 
  - I'm white & was an early supporter of Obama. I did NOT vote for him because he wasn't Bush r McCain  Honeycombe8   Sep-26-11 07:25 PM   #119 
  - So you'd be saying that of any white Democrat?  treestar   Sep-26-11 09:20 PM   #130 
  - Whoa. Perry's pretty rude, huh? Something must have really gotten to her. nt  Honeycombe8   Sep-26-11 07:27 PM   #120 
  - I'm more inclined to hold this rebuttal against Perry than Walsh.  Chan790   Sep-26-11 09:00 PM   #124 
  - Agree and believe this hurts Perry professionally more than Walsh.  kiranon   Sep-27-11 03:17 PM   #164 
  - I'm liking MHP more and more every day.  Number23   Sep-26-11 09:14 PM   #128 
  - I just read through this thread. Don't know why I did.  Number23   Sep-26-11 09:17 PM   #129 
  - Why can't some white people ...  1StrongBlackMan   Sep-26-11 10:59 PM   #148 
  - And these folks don't seem to recognize the absurdity of  EffieBlack   Sep-26-11 11:06 PM   #149 
  - +1  young but wise   Sep-27-11 07:00 AM   #158 
  - There are more on this thread who act like arbiters than I would have expected  Mimosa   Sep-27-11 05:26 PM   #169 
     - I agree ...  1StrongBlackMan   Sep-27-11 08:54 PM   #172 
        - MARRY ME!!! +1,000,000,000!!! n/t  Liberal_Stalwart71   Sep-27-11 09:02 PM   #174 
        - Get in line!!!  OneGrassRoot   Sep-27-11 10:27 PM   #179 
        - We think alike. ;)  Mimosa   Sep-27-11 09:59 PM   #177 
           - I make my young political science studies watch "Network" every semester.  Liberal_Stalwart71   Sep-27-11 10:48 PM   #183 
  - +1 n/t  tammywammy   Sep-26-11 11:22 PM   #152 
  - Melissa Hariss-Petty  Bluenorthwest   Sep-26-11 09:31 PM   #131 
  - "Black clergy vow: No gay marriage in N.C."  WorseBeforeBetter   Sep-26-11 11:24 PM   #153 
  - I thought you liked her assessment of the Prop 8 decision. I thought you said...  These Eyes   Sep-26-11 11:27 PM   #155 
  - I think Dr. Harris-Perry has mishandled this one.  John Agar   Sep-26-11 09:38 PM   #132 
  - Sad that it is coming to this.  blueclown   Sep-26-11 10:20 PM   #138 
  - well you do realize Joan Walsh called her out  wndycty   Sep-26-11 10:44 PM   #144 
  - Deleted sub-thread  Name removed   Sep-26-11 10:48 PM   #145 
  - This is more of a discussion of celebrity journalism  swilton   Sep-26-11 11:58 PM   #156 
  - ITA!  Mimosa   Sep-27-11 05:27 PM   #170 
  - If anyone is serious about having an ongoing discussion about racism and bigotry...  OneGrassRoot   Sep-27-11 10:38 PM   #180 
  - Count This Black Man In! n/t  1StrongBlackMan   Sep-28-11 12:06 AM   #185 
     - Yay! Thanks. :) n/t  OneGrassRoot   Sep-28-11 05:54 AM   #188 
  - I think Perry in at least one place is arguing with a straw man. Most of the criticisms of her piece  BzaDem   Sep-28-11 04:46 AM   #187 
  - Wow, tries changing the story right off...  iamthebandfanman   Sep-28-11 12:17 PM   #198 
 

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