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Reply #25: I did.... And to suggest Clinton got a pass, while Obama is not... [View All]

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hlthe2b Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-26-11 12:07 PM
Response to Reply #4
25. I did.... And to suggest Clinton got a pass, while Obama is not...
Edited on Mon Sep-26-11 12:13 PM by hlthe2b
and that that is attributable only to racial bias is to exclude that gargantuan difference-- Obama is facing enormous challenges at a time when the stakes are so much higher than during the Clinton years. We face not only a worldwide recession (and very likely a double dip that in retrospect in future years may end up looking more like a true "depression" ), but an accompanying collapse of the middle class and an overwhelming increase in poverty. We have an aging lay-off prone population facing age discrimination in hiring and a youthful population facing an equally dismal job market. More and more of our population have lost any hope of home ownership after seeing the blatant criminality of the banking industry that has seized homes in foreclosure at a record rate, with little attempt to work out solutions. Not to mention the grinding pain from two wars... If American progressives are less "forgiving," less willing to give benefit of the doubt, it is arguably because the stakes are so damned higher now.

Had Clinton had the same level of "success" and conversely "failure" in against a recalcitrant and obstructive RETHUG congress during his tenure while ALSO facing the same level of economic and societal "pain", I sincerely doubt he would have face less criticism and diminished support than Obama. Yet where is this factor in MHP's analysis? Racism seems to be an all-too easy default explanation, but a highly simplistic one. Someone of Harris-Perry's intellectual caliber should know better.

I am not abandoning Obama, but I have my share of disappointments and concerns. While I acknowledge that none of us can be free of race as an influence on our thinking, I can say without reservation that if Clinton were President today with the accomplishments, failures, and challenges of Obama's current record and pursuing the same strategies and policies, I would view him (Clinton)with the same disappointments and concerns.
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  -OH DAMN: Melissa Harris Perry re: Joan Walsh's comment "We are not friends." wndycty  Sep-26-11 11:19 AM   #0 
  - Wow. I'm heading to the link now....  OneGrassRoot   Sep-26-11 11:28 AM   #1 
  - Apples. Oranges.  Jakes Progress   Sep-27-11 09:37 PM   #175 
     - Are you posting in response to me?  OneGrassRoot   Sep-27-11 10:24 PM   #178 
        - It was a reply to your post. It was not  Jakes Progress   Sep-28-11 08:28 AM   #189 
           - It may be easier for you to peruse the posts below, as I commented frequently....  OneGrassRoot   Sep-28-11 09:03 AM   #190 
              - Thank you for a reasoned reply.  Jakes Progress   Sep-28-11 11:37 AM   #196 
                 - Thank you...  OneGrassRoot   Sep-28-11 11:57 AM   #197 
  - ouch  grasswire   Sep-26-11 11:28 AM   #2 
  - Wow...  hlthe2b   Sep-26-11 11:29 AM   #3 
  - It's worth reading her article at the link...  OneGrassRoot   Sep-26-11 11:35 AM   #4 
  - I did.... And to suggest Clinton got a pass, while Obama is not...  hlthe2b   Sep-26-11 12:07 PM   #25 
     - Several things...  OneGrassRoot   Sep-26-11 12:13 PM   #28 
        - I think we are in broad agreement...  hlthe2b   Sep-26-11 12:18 PM   #34 
  - I don't think that's what she's saying at all  Empowerer   Sep-26-11 11:48 AM   #13 
  - Not that I expect you to understand  Hutzpa   Sep-26-11 12:07 PM   #26 
  - Starting off a post to me "not that I expect you to understand"  hlthe2b   Sep-26-11 12:15 PM   #29 
  - Ok, point taken point made  Hutzpa   Sep-26-11 12:21 PM   #37 
     - thank you for recognizing that and replying..  hlthe2b   Sep-26-11 12:22 PM   #39 
  - Only Centrists consider Clinton to be 'one of the  alsame   Sep-26-11 12:52 PM   #55 
  - Yes, you have mis-interpreted her point ...  1StrongBlackMan   Sep-26-11 09:54 PM   #134 
     - That is absolutely NOT what I am doing...  hlthe2b   Sep-27-11 12:34 AM   #157 
        - What is it about some DUers ...  1StrongBlackMan   Sep-27-11 09:52 PM   #176 
  - Wow - this is exactly the point I was trying to make in my OP in another thread  Empowerer   Sep-26-11 11:37 AM   #5 
  - I wonder if and how Joan Walsh will respond  wndycty   Sep-26-11 11:39 AM   #6 
  - That really is a key point. I'm still reading, but this passage...  OneGrassRoot   Sep-26-11 11:41 AM   #8 
  - people say "my friend" in public life a lot  Enrique   Sep-26-11 11:39 AM   #7 
  - That's the only part of what Melissa said that I disagree with....  OneGrassRoot   Sep-26-11 11:52 AM   #16 
  - It was petty. And she basically called Joan a racist. I don't agree with that.  boston bean   Sep-26-11 12:05 PM   #22 
  - I'm with Harris-Perry on this. I took Joan Walsh's comment literally.  vaberella   Sep-26-11 03:21 PM   #94 
  - An awesome blog. nt  thereismore   Sep-26-11 11:42 AM   #9 
  - I love that she called Joan Walsh to the carpet. Friends are different from social colleagues. Why  Pisces   Sep-26-11 11:42 AM   #10 
  - I think it's really helpful to read both pieces that led to what Perry wrote here...  OneGrassRoot   Sep-26-11 11:56 AM   #19 
  - Joan probably won't reply. I probably wouldn't. There is no place to go, once someone  boston bean   Sep-26-11 12:13 PM   #27 
     - She apologized, I updated the OP to reflect that  wndycty   Sep-26-11 12:16 PM   #30 
     - Walsh apologized for calling Melissa a friend, and that settle it? nt  boston bean   Sep-26-11 12:18 PM   #32 
        - She'll know better next time.  Supersedeas   Sep-27-11 03:44 PM   #166 
     - I'm hoping they both have the emotional wherewithal to move beyond it...  OneGrassRoot   Sep-26-11 12:17 PM   #31 
        - I hope they don't and dialogue . . . I trust both will approach it constructively  wndycty   Sep-26-11 12:18 PM   #33 
        - If someone thinks you are a racist, what conversation is there to be had.  boston bean   Sep-26-11 12:20 PM   #35 
           - I simply disagree  OneGrassRoot   Sep-26-11 12:28 PM   #41 
           - I completely agree with that assessment too  Hutzpa   Sep-26-11 12:45 PM   #51 
              - I don't think its about Walsh defending herself, its about Walsh and Perry having a diaglogue  wndycty   Sep-26-11 12:47 PM   #52 
              - Joan should defend herself, from what the racism accusation?  boston bean   Sep-26-11 12:48 PM   #53 
                 - MHP did not intimates Joan is a racist  Hutzpa   Sep-26-11 12:52 PM   #56 
                    - I have always understood, the i have black friends, to be a cover for being a racist.  boston bean   Sep-26-11 12:55 PM   #57 
                       - I don't see it that way at all  Empowerer   Sep-26-11 01:41 PM   #70 
                          - Same thing. If a white person says they have black friends they are laughed at, and  boston bean   Sep-26-11 01:44 PM   #71 
                             - No we are NOT saying the same thing  Empowerer   Sep-26-11 01:56 PM   #76 
                             - Yes, we are. Bias against what?  boston bean   Sep-26-11 02:29 PM   #81 
                             - I suggest ...  1StrongBlackMan   Sep-26-11 10:30 PM   #141 
                             - I think you're trying to use  Hutzpa   Sep-26-11 01:58 PM   #77 
                                - wow, the mine fields that we tread upon even when using terms of endearment  Supersedeas   Sep-27-11 02:45 PM   #163 
           - I don't think MHP called JW a racist  fishwax   Sep-26-11 10:18 PM   #136 
           - Well said!  EffieBlack   Sep-26-11 10:22 PM   #139 
           - no, she said Walsh used it to  boston bean   Sep-27-11 08:02 AM   #160 
           - I've read the words. I don't find the difference as significant as you do.  fishwax   Sep-27-11 10:01 AM   #161 
           - Interesting...  OneGrassRoot   Sep-28-11 09:17 AM   #191 
           - Something to think about ... Or not ...  1StrongBlackMan   Sep-26-11 10:19 PM   #137 
              - it has a nice tautological ring of non-falsifiability to it...doesn't it  Supersedeas   Sep-26-11 10:54 PM   #147 
                 - Huh????  1StrongBlackMan   Sep-27-11 11:59 PM   #184 
  - and we "white" people can not begin to understand the whole  a kennedy   Sep-26-11 06:16 PM   #116 
     - If that was not meant to be sarcastic ...  1StrongBlackMan   Sep-26-11 10:51 PM   #146 
  - She's so well written  JustAnotherGen   Sep-26-11 11:43 AM   #11 
  - It's a shame to see this back and forth between them  Cali_Democrat   Sep-26-11 11:48 AM   #12 
  - Maybe it does. . .hopefully Walsh will respond in a constructive manner. . .  wndycty   Sep-26-11 11:49 AM   #15 
  - It absolutely exists. My white uncle voted Democratic in every election of his life, until Obama.  Zen Democrat   Sep-26-11 11:48 AM   #14 
  - I always point out that Obama is also half white. You can see the lights turn on...  Frustratedlady   Sep-26-11 12:26 PM   #40 
  - But this is about white liberals ABANDONING Obama. Your uncle was never on board,  seaglass   Sep-26-11 12:32 PM   #44 
  - Then he's not one of the ones who's "abandoned" the president  Doctor_J   Sep-26-11 12:32 PM   #45 
  - Note that your uncle did not vote for Obama in 2008. The racists already showed their cards.  yardwork   Sep-26-11 07:36 PM   #121 
  - From a Black Perspective  Cigar11   Sep-26-11 11:52 AM   #17 
  - Welcome to DU cigar  wndycty   Sep-26-11 11:54 AM   #18 
  - It absolutely does, but liberals current treatment of Obama isn't exemplary of it.  lumberjack_jeff   Sep-26-11 12:05 PM   #21 
  - Welcome, and I couldn't agree more....  OneGrassRoot   Sep-26-11 12:06 PM   #24 
  - thank you. I was going to write a long list of crap but why bother.  okieinpain   Sep-26-11 12:56 PM   #58 
  - 'Racism still exists' is not the issue  Mr Deltoid   Sep-26-11 01:29 PM   #66 
  - But that's the point: Many of us...  OneGrassRoot   Sep-27-11 10:44 PM   #181 
  - Amen. I live in New York City---Harlem---and every day I prepare myself for racism.  vaberella   Sep-26-11 03:22 PM   #95 
  - Thank you Cigar11....  a kennedy   Sep-26-11 06:20 PM   #118 
  - wow, she took Walsh's words about their professional friendship like that?  boston bean   Sep-26-11 11:56 AM   #20 
  - Then I have far fewer friends than I thought I did. n/t  lumberjack_jeff   Sep-26-11 12:06 PM   #23 
  - I can understand why you have a problem w/Prof Perry's response regarding the "friendship"  Empowerer   Sep-26-11 12:28 PM   #42 
  - Yeah Joan Walsh meant to say, I have black friends so I am not a racist?  boston bean   Sep-26-11 12:43 PM   #49 
  - What is with this obsession with turning every discussion about bias, prejudice and sensitivity into  Empowerer   Sep-26-11 01:48 PM   #73 
  - "Intimating someone like Joan Walsh a racist is completely out of bounds."  CakeGrrl   Sep-26-11 01:52 PM   #74 
     - And no one "intimated" that she was a racist  Empowerer   Sep-26-11 01:55 PM   #75 
        - ...deploy our professional familiarity as a shield against claims of her own bias is very troubling.  lumberjack_jeff   Sep-26-11 02:11 PM   #79 
           - Bias does not equal racism  Empowerer   Sep-26-11 02:17 PM   #80 
              - I am glad I am so interesting to you. Are you bias? and what is your racial bias?  boston bean   Sep-26-11 02:31 PM   #82 
              - I have all kinds of prejudices, as do most human beings  Empowerer   Sep-26-11 02:39 PM   #84 
                 - That is for you to do. Melissa Perry did not do that. She made an accusation of it.  boston bean   Sep-26-11 02:47 PM   #86 
                    - Trust me - if I wanted to call you a racist, I'd just call you one  Empowerer   Sep-26-11 02:53 PM   #87 
                       - There is no morphing. There is little distinction between racial bias and racism.  boston bean   Sep-26-11 02:55 PM   #88 
              - Introspection.  lumberjack_jeff   Sep-26-11 02:33 PM   #83 
              - That's very interesting  Empowerer   Sep-26-11 02:46 PM   #85 
                 - Maybe if MHP had not humiliated her in PUBLIC it wouldn't have been a insult.  Little Star   Sep-26-11 04:47 PM   #106 
              - I have much more concern for Joan's feelings because MHP is the one...  Little Star   Sep-26-11 04:34 PM   #104 
  - Or perhaps Walsh simply overestimated the value of "a few meals" with her.  lumberjack_jeff   Sep-26-11 02:04 PM   #78 
     - Maybe ...  1StrongBlackMan   Sep-26-11 10:39 PM   #143 
        - You're right. Perspective (and perception) are everything...  OneGrassRoot   Sep-27-11 07:53 AM   #159 
           - "Yet it did strike me as odd, even mean-spirited." WHY?  Karenina   Sep-27-11 04:49 PM   #168 
              - No, and that was my point, Karenina...  OneGrassRoot   Sep-27-11 05:43 PM   #171 
                 - And that ...  1StrongBlackMan   Sep-27-11 09:01 PM   #173 
                    - AMEN! Thank you OneGrassRoot!!!  Karenina   Sep-28-11 03:54 AM   #186 
                       - ...  OneGrassRoot   Sep-28-11 09:23 AM   #192 
  - Another truth that can set you free?  Supersedeas   Sep-27-11 03:25 PM   #165 
     - I feel the loss of some more keenly than others. n/t  lumberjack_jeff   Sep-27-11 04:24 PM   #167 
  - That's not a friend. I don't know where this professional friends BS comes from.  vaberella   Sep-26-11 03:24 PM   #96 
     - Compare how they each describe their relationship:  Bluenorthwest   Sep-26-11 10:03 PM   #135 
     - Drawing a clear line in the sand  Supersedeas   Sep-27-11 01:50 PM   #162 
     - professional friends bs?  Supersedeas   Sep-28-11 10:26 AM   #193 
  - "I make it a practice not to defend my public writings"  Enrique   Sep-26-11 12:21 PM   #36 
  - Letter from Birmingham Jail. Nice eye. Hard to guess.  chill_wind   Sep-26-11 08:46 PM   #123 
  - Good catch! I wonder if it was deliberate or subconscious too.  polichick   Sep-26-11 09:54 PM   #133 
  - Well that was taken wildly out of context  Prism   Sep-26-11 12:21 PM   #38 
  - Well said, Prism. I only disagree with the very last sentence....  OneGrassRoot   Sep-26-11 12:30 PM   #43 
     - They're both very intelligent women  Prism   Sep-26-11 12:36 PM   #46 
        - You should read their Facebook walls. LOL n/t  OneGrassRoot   Sep-26-11 12:45 PM   #50 
  - Looks like the circular firing squad has now ascended to the punditry  Mr Deltoid   Sep-26-11 12:37 PM   #47 
  - Perry is spot-on. Walsh did overreach with her "I have black friends" strategy of argument.  ClarkUSA   Sep-26-11 12:42 PM   #48 
  - I disagree.  OneGrassRoot   Sep-26-11 12:48 PM   #54 
     - I respect your opinion but I stand by what I said.  ClarkUSA   Sep-26-11 01:00 PM   #59 
        - Okay  OneGrassRoot   Sep-26-11 01:09 PM   #60 
        - Anyone you work with is a colleague.  emcguffie   Sep-26-11 03:04 PM   #91 
  - Melissa went off the fucking deep. She can't write something like that...  xultar   Sep-26-11 01:13 PM   #61 
  - ;)  wndycty   Sep-26-11 01:15 PM   #62 
  - Y U so crazy? Rofl. I just saw u a sec ago!  xultar   Sep-26-11 01:36 PM   #67 
  - Xultar... haven't seen you in eons...  hlthe2b   Sep-26-11 01:16 PM   #63 
     - xoxoxo  xultar   Sep-26-11 01:37 PM   #68 
  - When all you have is a hammer, every problem you encounter looks like a nail  MadHound   Sep-26-11 01:17 PM   #64 
  - Bingo!!!  Beacool   Sep-26-11 01:46 PM   #72 
  - I agree MadHound except it started with her mouth about...  Little Star   Sep-26-11 04:42 PM   #105 
  - Started with her mouth? Are you calling her uppity? Seriously dude/dudette. . .  wndycty   Sep-26-11 05:14 PM   #108 
  - pffftttt  Little Star   Sep-26-11 05:45 PM   #113 
  - She disagreed with Oprah and Michelle so she needs to sit down and shut up?  Empowerer   Sep-26-11 05:31 PM   #111 
  - She thought she spoke for all black women and was embarrassed  Little Star   Sep-26-11 05:50 PM   #114 
     - You know what she was thinking? And you know that she thought she was speaking for all black women?  EffieBlack   Sep-26-11 10:30 PM   #142 
  - "She just needs to sit down and shut up for a while and get herself some help."  fishwax   Sep-26-11 10:26 PM   #140 
  - "sit down and shut up"  tammywammy   Sep-26-11 11:24 PM   #154 
  - she certainly didn't give much credance to the political side of this  Supersedeas   Sep-28-11 11:23 AM   #195 
  - i.e. "I don't drink with you"  Enrique   Sep-26-11 01:19 PM   #65 
  - Perfect!  yardwork   Sep-26-11 07:37 PM   #122 
  - IMHO.....  Little Star   Sep-26-11 01:38 PM   #69 
  - I don't think this is a question of anger management on MHP's part.  COLGATE4   Sep-26-11 03:20 PM   #93 
  - I'm sorry but I see it as a deep held anger. Snark is way to mild for  Little Star   Sep-26-11 04:22 PM   #102 
  - She went off on the film "The Help" recently too...  polichick   Sep-26-11 09:13 PM   #127 
  - Ms. Harris-Perry needs to take a chill pill.  Vinca   Sep-26-11 02:57 PM   #89 
  - Oh brother  wndycty   Sep-26-11 03:01 PM   #90 
  - I'm with you. n/t  vaberella   Sep-26-11 03:25 PM   #97 
  - Yeah...who the hell does she think she is, speaking her mind and all.  Bobbie Jo   Sep-26-11 03:18 PM   #92 
  - You wouldn't be suggesting that she "sit down and shut up", would you?  CakeGrrl   Sep-26-11 03:34 PM   #99 
  - People are turning themselves inside out on this...  These Eyes   Sep-26-11 04:12 PM   #100 
  - If you're a liberal Democrat and white, you, too, may be considered a racist.  Vinca   Sep-26-11 04:27 PM   #103 
     - That has never been the meme...  These Eyes   Sep-26-11 05:41 PM   #112 
     - And this is the reason I'm taking issue as well.  CakeGrrl   Sep-26-11 11:18 PM   #151 
        - What you said. n/t  OneGrassRoot   Sep-27-11 10:45 PM   #182 
     - who is saying "Obama 100% or you're a racist"?  fishwax   Sep-28-11 11:00 AM   #194 
  - No, I'm not. I'm suggesting she be a bit more civil to people.  Vinca   Sep-26-11 04:22 PM   #101 
  - LOL - that's ridiculous!  polichick   Sep-26-11 09:08 PM   #126 
     - Oops, you're right! That was way back up there at post 105.  CakeGrrl   Sep-26-11 11:07 PM   #150 
  - Now you've done it, you racist you!  polichick   Sep-26-11 09:07 PM   #125 
  - big rec.  Whisp   Sep-26-11 03:29 PM   #98 
  - Here's a perfect example of Perry's point  ProSense   Sep-26-11 05:01 PM   #107 
  - I don't remember Clinton's liberal rhetoric  Enrique   Sep-26-11 05:21 PM   #109 
     - Well  ProSense   Sep-26-11 05:23 PM   #110 
  - That's kind of rude of Perry. Pols and pundits often say that as a  Phx_Dem   Sep-26-11 05:56 PM   #115 
  - Obama was elected because he was not Bush  Marnie   Sep-26-11 06:17 PM   #117 
  - I'm white & was an early supporter of Obama. I did NOT vote for him because he wasn't Bush r McCain  Honeycombe8   Sep-26-11 07:25 PM   #119 
  - So you'd be saying that of any white Democrat?  treestar   Sep-26-11 09:20 PM   #130 
  - Whoa. Perry's pretty rude, huh? Something must have really gotten to her. nt  Honeycombe8   Sep-26-11 07:27 PM   #120 
  - I'm more inclined to hold this rebuttal against Perry than Walsh.  Chan790   Sep-26-11 09:00 PM   #124 
  - Agree and believe this hurts Perry professionally more than Walsh.  kiranon   Sep-27-11 03:17 PM   #164 
  - I'm liking MHP more and more every day.  Number23   Sep-26-11 09:14 PM   #128 
  - I just read through this thread. Don't know why I did.  Number23   Sep-26-11 09:17 PM   #129 
  - Why can't some white people ...  1StrongBlackMan   Sep-26-11 10:59 PM   #148 
  - And these folks don't seem to recognize the absurdity of  EffieBlack   Sep-26-11 11:06 PM   #149 
  - +1  young but wise   Sep-27-11 07:00 AM   #158 
  - There are more on this thread who act like arbiters than I would have expected  Mimosa   Sep-27-11 05:26 PM   #169 
     - I agree ...  1StrongBlackMan   Sep-27-11 08:54 PM   #172 
        - MARRY ME!!! +1,000,000,000!!! n/t  Liberal_Stalwart71   Sep-27-11 09:02 PM   #174 
        - Get in line!!!  OneGrassRoot   Sep-27-11 10:27 PM   #179 
        - We think alike. ;)  Mimosa   Sep-27-11 09:59 PM   #177 
           - I make my young political science studies watch "Network" every semester.  Liberal_Stalwart71   Sep-27-11 10:48 PM   #183 
  - +1 n/t  tammywammy   Sep-26-11 11:22 PM   #152 
  - Melissa Hariss-Petty  Bluenorthwest   Sep-26-11 09:31 PM   #131 
  - "Black clergy vow: No gay marriage in N.C."  WorseBeforeBetter   Sep-26-11 11:24 PM   #153 
  - I thought you liked her assessment of the Prop 8 decision. I thought you said...  These Eyes   Sep-26-11 11:27 PM   #155 
  - I think Dr. Harris-Perry has mishandled this one.  John Agar   Sep-26-11 09:38 PM   #132 
  - Sad that it is coming to this.  blueclown   Sep-26-11 10:20 PM   #138 
  - well you do realize Joan Walsh called her out  wndycty   Sep-26-11 10:44 PM   #144 
  - Deleted sub-thread  Name removed   Sep-26-11 10:48 PM   #145 
  - This is more of a discussion of celebrity journalism  swilton   Sep-26-11 11:58 PM   #156 
  - ITA!  Mimosa   Sep-27-11 05:27 PM   #170 
  - If anyone is serious about having an ongoing discussion about racism and bigotry...  OneGrassRoot   Sep-27-11 10:38 PM   #180 
  - Count This Black Man In! n/t  1StrongBlackMan   Sep-28-11 12:06 AM   #185 
     - Yay! Thanks. :) n/t  OneGrassRoot   Sep-28-11 05:54 AM   #188 
  - I think Perry in at least one place is arguing with a straw man. Most of the criticisms of her piece  BzaDem   Sep-28-11 04:46 AM   #187 
  - Wow, tries changing the story right off...  iamthebandfanman   Sep-28-11 12:17 PM   #198 

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