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Reply #29: you made the argument...contorted as it was, only to find out it actually makes Obama look bad [View All]

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CreekDog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-11-11 06:12 PM
Response to Reply #21
29. you made the argument...contorted as it was, only to find out it actually makes Obama look bad
Edited on Mon Jul-11-11 06:13 PM by CreekDog
unfortunately, much of the most vigorous defenses of Obama actually paint him worse than his critics (on the left) think he is, because the most vigorous defenders say things like:

1) he didn't do x, y or z because he didn't have the power to do it
2) he didn't speak in favor of x, y, or z because he didn't have the votes to pass it --so what would be the point
3) if he doesn't have the votes for something, he's not going to go out on a limb for it because he'll probably lose

4) you can't take his words at face value because he's speaking in some sort of strategic political code, designed to win for our side

there's more, but i'll let you cogitate on these for now.

i actually think more of Obama than all these things, but his most vocal advocates make the above arguments time and time again.

his critics on the other hand, many don't trust him, sure, but a lot of them think:

1) he didn't do x, y, or z because he was afraid of losing the battle (but does actually want to pass progressive x, y or z)
2) he didn't speak in favor of x, y, or z because he didn't have the votes and thought he'd lose support elsewhere if he took a strong position

BUT they also think:

3) if he takes a strong stand, Obama really can persuade people to a more progressive position, so he should do this more often
4) if he takes a strong stand (but loses sometimes), i'll respect his courage (and we think so will others who don't respect him now --even on the right)
5) and that almost all the positions he's a bit soft on are ones that are winners with the public
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  -What was Obama referring to when he spoke of "trimming benefits" at his press conference today? Cali_Democrat  Jul-11-11 05:04 PM   #0 
  - There's the quote that everybody was demanding a few days ago  high density   Jul-11-11 05:07 PM   #1 
  - No that is NOT the quote  Tx4obama   Jul-11-11 05:12 PM   #4 
     - That is one hell of a reach.  Bluenorthwest   Jul-11-11 05:17 PM   #7 
     - "trimming benefits and increasing revenues"  high density   Jul-11-11 05:19 PM   #8 
     - Eliminating subsidies to big corps would be trimming benefits.  Tx4obama   Jul-11-11 05:42 PM   #11 
        - you know if you're right, you have no respect for Obama whatsoever  CreekDog   Jul-11-11 05:52 PM   #16 
        - Oh bull.  Tx4obama   Jul-11-11 05:56 PM   #21 
           - you made the argument...contorted as it was, only to find out it actually makes Obama look bad  CreekDog   Jul-11-11 06:12 PM   #29 
           - Bookmarking this. Thanks CD nt  LaurenG   Jul-12-11 09:04 AM   #46 
           - That's funny  MNBrewer   Jul-11-11 06:13 PM   #30 
              - and how does that "defense" of Obama actually make him look?  CreekDog   Jul-11-11 06:19 PM   #35 
                 - Deleted message  Name removed   Jul-11-11 06:24 PM   #37 
        - So trimming those subsidies would be a hard, unpleasant thing to do?  high density   Jul-11-11 05:54 PM   #19 
           - He used to word 'people' which could be REPUBLICANS  Tx4obama   Jul-11-11 06:01 PM   #23 
              - There are more details available in the official WH transcript of today's news conf:  Zenlitened   Jul-11-11 06:17 PM   #33 
              - he didn't say "subisidies"...he said "benefits"  CreekDog   Jul-11-11 06:22 PM   #36 
              - We are all free here to post our opinions.  Tx4obama   Jul-11-11 06:28 PM   #39 
                 - it's clear i'm not trying to silence you --but that your defense of Obama actually hurts him  CreekDog   Jul-11-11 06:38 PM   #41 
              - jeez, you're making it sound like he choose his words very poorly  CreekDog   Jul-11-11 06:33 PM   #40 
     - My impression is that he was referring to raising or eliminating the  Frustratedlady   Jul-11-11 05:35 PM   #10 
     - Ummm  MNBrewer   Jul-11-11 06:10 PM   #27 
     - Deleted message  Name removed   Jul-11-11 06:27 PM   #38 
  - well, not to make it too obvious  Tansy_Gold   Jul-11-11 05:09 PM   #2 
  - Trimming 'benefits' probably means TAX CUTS that benefit the rich. n/t  Tx4obama   Jul-11-11 05:09 PM   #3 
  - It almost certainly does NOT mean that.  Zenlitened   Jul-11-11 05:45 PM   #13 
  - LOL, good one! nt  boston bean   Jul-11-11 05:45 PM   #14 
  - Exactly what unicorn-filled wonderland do you live in?  MNBrewer   Jul-11-11 06:15 PM   #32 
  - cancelling congressional retirement packages and health care? yeah right nt  msongs   Jul-11-11 05:12 PM   #5 
  - It means taking from the least among us.  Bluenorthwest   Jul-11-11 05:14 PM   #6 
  - Speaking of hypocrisy...  jefferson_dem   Jul-11-11 05:52 PM   #17 
  - I think he is talking about  wolfgirl   Jul-11-11 05:20 PM   #9 
  - Bottom line is that since Obama gave no details - no one knows what he was referring to. n/t  Tx4obama   Jul-11-11 05:44 PM   #12 
  - This is why I asked the question. I was hoping people could shed some more light on the subject  Cali_Democrat   Jul-11-11 05:53 PM   #18 
  - The only person that can shed any light is Obama.  Tx4obama   Jul-11-11 06:02 PM   #24 
  - Despite the fact that he must know that the rumor of SS and Medicare cuts is out there  MNBrewer   Jul-11-11 06:17 PM   #34 
     - ^That's how most heard and interpreted it, MNBrewer ^  Mimosa   Jul-11-11 06:49 PM   #43 
  - Old news...  jefferson_dem   Jul-11-11 05:50 PM   #15 
  - I'm not understanding your point here at all.  Zenlitened   Jul-11-11 06:08 PM   #26 
  - Most of the cuts will be to spending. That's not in dispute. n/t  Unvanguard   Jul-11-11 05:54 PM   #20 
  - The statement about "trimming benefits" was part of an answer...  Zenlitened   Jul-11-11 05:58 PM   #22 
  - He means cutting social security.  tcaudilllg   Jul-11-11 06:05 PM   #25 
     - Did Obama call you up and tell you that?  Tx4obama   Jul-11-11 06:12 PM   #28 
     - what difference would that make?  CreekDog   Jul-11-11 07:19 PM   #44 
     - Well, I honestly don't think I can be accused of having blinders on...  Zenlitened   Jul-11-11 06:13 PM   #31 
  - It seems pretty clear he was talking about entitlements.  Vattel   Jul-11-11 06:44 PM   #42 
     - The more I think about it  Cali_Democrat   Jul-11-11 07:24 PM   #45 

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