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Reply #24: If Bush has sold the Iraq war to the Congress and the American people as a mission [View All]

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phleshdef Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-22-11 02:24 PM
Response to Reply #21
24. If Bush has sold the Iraq war to the Congress and the American people as a mission take out a cruel dictator and save the Iraqi people from oppression, IF that was the official argument used to sell it and IF the American people and the US Congress still bought what he sold, then he WOULD have been justified. I'm not saying that it would have still been sold to me personally, it likely would not have, but if the American public as a whole knew he wanted to go in for that particular reason and approved of the going in based on that, then we would have a different story on our hands.

Thats not what happened though. Bush sold us the Iraq war based on the fear that Hussein was basically stockpiling any WMD he could get his hands on with the notion that it would be used on American interests that he could reach. And it was based on lies. We never found what we were going in for. It wasn't there. And that was just the beginning of how things went wrong with Bush and Iraq.

Thus far, I don't think we are being lied to about Ghaddafi. I think its true that he has had thousands killed over the past few weeks. I think its true that he will kill thousands more. That the violence will push people fleeing from Libya into the countries that surround it which are all in the middle of their own civil uprising problems. I think that dynamic will destabilize the middle east even moreso and will lead to a massive humanitarian crisis. I think we can stop that from happening by stopping Ghaddafi. I think we can do it without putting troops on the ground.

Of course we can't respond to every possible humanitarian crisis in a military fashion. Of course we haven't always responded to one when we could have and of coruse there are similar problems in other countries that we aren't responding to. None of that cancels out the fact that its a good thing to stand between Ghaddafi and mass genocide, at this moment, while we actually have a chance to intervene in a way that matters. Its not a damn thing like Iraq in the least.
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  -For those comparing Libya to Iraq, explain this: jenmito  Mar-22-11 01:24 PM   #0 
  - I also noted Richard Engle's report Sunday....  JohnnyRingo   Mar-22-11 01:29 PM   #1 
  - engle has made like 500 reports and interviews over the last week.  meow mix   Mar-22-11 01:33 PM   #3 
  - I saw Engel's report. But I don't think he said the MAJORITY of rebels he spoke to didn't know WHY  jenmito   Mar-22-11 01:34 PM   #4 
     - Well, that's good enough for me...  rfranklin   Mar-22-11 01:38 PM   #8 
     - His anecdotal report yesterday has nothing to do with my OP. Engel ALSO reported  jenmito   Mar-22-11 01:47 PM   #16 
     - More than a few rebels oppose Gaddafi saying he's "Jewish."  David__77   Mar-22-11 02:31 PM   #27 
     - Richard Engel transcript  chowder66   Mar-22-11 03:07 PM   #35 
        - OK...  jenmito   Mar-22-11 03:21 PM   #39 
           - Just in case...I wasn't try to correct anyone...  chowder66   Mar-22-11 06:47 PM   #51 
  - not to mention the Arab Leauge and the UN.  meow mix   Mar-22-11 01:32 PM   #2 
  - Exactly. n/t  jenmito   Mar-22-11 01:36 PM   #5 
  - Yes, there were Iraqi exiles pleading for it...  rfranklin   Mar-22-11 01:38 PM   #6 
  - I read the whole article. Not one mention of them asking for a NFZ. Perhaps you could point it out  Very_Boring_Name   Mar-22-11 01:40 PM   #9 
  - There was already a NFZ in Iraq & had been for about 10 years  The_Casual_Observer   Mar-22-11 01:45 PM   #14 
  - I was talking about military action and regime change in general...  rfranklin   Mar-22-11 03:58 PM   #47 
  - "Iraqi exiles"? Wow...  jenmito   Mar-22-11 01:41 PM   #10 
     - Plus the article had no mention of anyone wanting a NFZ, which was the crux of the argument the OP  Very_Boring_Name   Mar-22-11 01:43 PM   #11 
        - Yeah, I noticed the poster didn't reply to your post yet. n/t  jenmito   Mar-22-11 01:45 PM   #13 
  - here is a link to an  Bluerthanblue   Mar-22-11 01:38 PM   #7 
  - Thanks! Can I add it to my OP?  jenmito   Mar-22-11 01:44 PM   #12 
     - absolutely-  Bluerthanblue   Mar-22-11 01:47 PM   #15 
        - Thanks!  jenmito   Mar-22-11 01:48 PM   #17 
  - Too young to remember the first gulf war?  GeorgeGist   Mar-22-11 01:49 PM   #18 
  - I'm talking about Bush Jr.'s invasion of Iraq. n/t  jenmito   Mar-22-11 01:51 PM   #20 
  - There was a very influential group called the Iraqi National Congress.  The_Casual_Observer   Mar-22-11 01:50 PM   #19 
  - The Kurds welcomed an invasion of Iraq  Prism   Mar-22-11 01:52 PM   #21 
  - "Under this standard, Bush was completely justified in Iraq."  jenmito   Mar-22-11 02:08 PM   #22 
  - You asked a question. I answered it. What's your response to that?  Prism   Mar-22-11 02:20 PM   #23 
     - You said the Kurds welcomed the invasion. Were they even considered Iraqis  jenmito   Mar-22-11 02:36 PM   #29 
        - Did Obama have the support of the United States Congress?  Prism   Mar-22-11 02:44 PM   #31 
           - Not yet, but the approval he DID get was more important, at least  jenmito   Mar-22-11 03:07 PM   #36 
              - You've answered my question, as horrifying as that answer is  Prism   Mar-22-11 03:20 PM   #38 
                 - Yup...  jenmito   Mar-22-11 03:25 PM   #40 
                    - Might as well dissolve our government  Prism   Mar-22-11 03:35 PM   #43 
                       - Wrong...  jenmito   Mar-22-11 03:50 PM   #44 
                          - You probably should've read the entire paragraph  Prism   Mar-22-11 03:57 PM   #46 
  - If Bush has sold the Iraq war to the Congress and the American people as a mission  phleshdef   Mar-22-11 02:24 PM   #24 
     - Bingo  Very_Boring_Name   Mar-22-11 02:27 PM   #25 
     - Humanitarian purpose was one of Bush's arguments  Prism   Mar-22-11 02:36 PM   #28 
     - Yea, I don't think its ok based simply on one group desiring it.  phleshdef   Mar-22-11 03:06 PM   #34 
        - And I concede that point  Prism   Mar-22-11 03:32 PM   #42 
     - No, it wouldn't have been justified.  David__77   Mar-22-11 02:52 PM   #33 
        - What I mean by justified is taking actions based on arguments of truth vs arguments based on lies.  phleshdef   Mar-22-11 03:09 PM   #37 
  - I don't care what Gaddafi's ex-minister says.  David__77   Mar-22-11 02:28 PM   #26 
  - The rebels wanted us there-not just one man. n/t  jenmito   Mar-22-11 02:37 PM   #30 
     - Of course it wasn't just one person.  David__77   Mar-22-11 02:50 PM   #32 
  - I also recall Bush kicking the UN inspectors out of Iraq.  Life Long Dem   Mar-22-11 03:32 PM   #41 
  - That's right...  jenmito   Mar-22-11 03:52 PM   #45 
  - thanks nt  Clio the Leo   Mar-22-11 05:30 PM   #48 
  - I was surprised when Cenk Uygur gave Pres Obama the thumbs up today.  AtomicKitten   Mar-22-11 06:20 PM   #49 
  - Ahmed Chalabi invited US to liberate Iraq from Saddam  golfguru   Mar-22-11 06:39 PM   #50 
  - It's only about regime change. It's very like Iraq.  robcon   Mar-22-11 06:55 PM   #52 

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