Yavin4
(1000+ posts)
Send PM |
Profile |
Ignore
|
Mon Feb-14-11 04:52 PM
Response to Reply #47 |
| 86. Fuel Efficiency Is All Well and Good |
|
But the rate of fuel efficiency cannot withstand the overall global consumption rate. It just cannot.
|
| -Robert Samuelson Is Dead Wrong About High Speed Rail |
ProSense |
Feb-14-11 09:28 AM |
#0 |
 -
I read Samuelson's op-ed piece this morning, and I agree with him |
slackmaster |
Feb-14-11 09:30 AM |
#1 |
 -
Why? n/t |
ProSense |
Feb-14-11 09:32 AM |
#2 |
 -
Construction costs and predicted ridership have been severely underestimated,... |
slackmaster |
Feb-14-11 09:47 AM |
#6 |
| -
The article is from 2006! |
ProSense |
Feb-14-11 09:52 AM |
#8 |
| -
Ridership on the Sprinter is still nowhere near what was planned for |
slackmaster |
Feb-14-11 10:01 AM |
#11 |
| -
Nobody Expects a FREEWAY to Make a Profit, Roads are Heavily Subsidized |
AndyTiedye |
Feb-14-11 10:40 AM |
#14 |
| -
As Samuelson points out, fuel taxes more than cover federal spending on the highway system |
slackmaster |
Feb-14-11 12:16 PM |
#19 |
| -
It's about the |
The Wizard |
Feb-14-11 03:09 PM |
#57 |
| -
And high-speed, long distance trains use _what_ as their power source? |
slackmaster |
Feb-14-11 03:18 PM |
#62 |
| -
Are you kidding? |
Tesha |
Feb-15-11 07:24 AM |
#95 |
| -
To replace cars with rail |
WatsonT |
Feb-14-11 03:24 PM |
#65 |
| -
Not to put too fine a point on it, but NOT doing it would also |
jtuck004 |
Feb-16-11 11:37 PM |
#111 |
| -
Railroads Have to Pay Real Estate Taxes on Every Mile of Track |
AndyTiedye |
Feb-15-11 11:25 PM |
#103 |
| -
I think every decade since the 80s has seen gov bailouts of the airline |
StarsInHerHair |
Feb-15-11 10:02 PM |
#97 |
| -
is the Amtrak Northeast corridor an acceptable rail project? (DC to Boston) |
CreekDog |
Feb-14-11 12:26 PM |
#23 |
| -
Some routes make sense. Most of the country isn't like the Amtrak Northeast corridor. |
slackmaster |
Feb-14-11 12:38 PM |
#30 |
| -
but you said you didn't think any rail line in the nation met your standard |
CreekDog |
Feb-14-11 12:40 PM |
#31 |
| -
No, I never said that |
slackmaster |
Feb-14-11 12:41 PM |
#33 |
| -
you said, "A rail system needs to pay for itself, or it's not worth doing." |
CreekDog |
Feb-14-11 12:52 PM |
#39 |
| -
Yes, and the benefits of a rail system extend beyond receipts from fares |
slackmaster |
Feb-14-11 12:59 PM |
#44 |
| -
There is a Benefit in Having a Diversity of Transportation Options |
AndyTiedye |
Feb-14-11 03:29 PM |
#67 |
| -
maybe look at Japan, and Europe and meditate on what the U.S. could do |
StarsInHerHair |
Feb-15-11 10:04 PM |
#98 |
| -
Population desnity is the key |
WatsonT |
Feb-14-11 03:07 PM |
#56 |
| -
I love the train system in Japan. The country is like a giant Disneyland. |
slackmaster |
Feb-14-11 03:15 PM |
#60 |
| -
On density they're somewhere between Mass. and RI |
WatsonT |
Feb-14-11 03:22 PM |
#64 |
| -
is it key for highways too? |
StarsInHerHair |
Feb-15-11 10:06 PM |
#99 |
| -
Thanks for the link. So |
ProSense |
Feb-14-11 09:40 AM |
#4 |
| -
The Internet is not a train system |
slackmaster |
Feb-14-11 09:50 AM |
#7 |
| -
His entire case |
ProSense |
Feb-14-11 09:56 AM |
#9 |
| -
So you're basically saying that the solution to losing money on small projects... |
slackmaster |
Feb-14-11 10:00 AM |
#10 |
| -
Wait, |
ProSense |
Feb-14-11 10:36 AM |
#13 |
| -
Maybe |
slackmaster |
Feb-14-11 12:10 PM |
#17 |
| -
Hmmm? |
ProSense |
Feb-14-11 12:35 PM |
#29 |
| -
I'm not seeing anything that resembles a cohesive plan |
slackmaster |
Feb-14-11 12:42 PM |
#34 |
| -
that poster is against government spending in general |
CreekDog |
Feb-14-11 12:26 PM |
#24 |
| -
I'm against inefficient use of public money. |
slackmaster |
Feb-14-11 03:17 PM |
#61 |
| -
then you must be reallyangry how they designed the county budgets so |
StarsInHerHair |
Feb-15-11 10:12 PM |
#100 |
| -
Yes, despite 30 years of evidence to the contrary, |
Doctor_J |
Feb-14-11 06:06 PM |
#88 |
| -
Oh, no! Lose money???? |
Doctor_J |
Feb-14-11 11:20 AM |
#16 |
| -
As Samuelson points out, long-term transit subsidies take money away from more important things |
slackmaster |
Feb-14-11 12:13 PM |
#18 |
| -
New York City Subway? Is that subsidized? And for how long has it been? |
CreekDog |
Feb-14-11 12:28 PM |
#26 |
| -
Is someone planning on building a national subway system with stops every few blocks? |
slackmaster |
Feb-14-11 12:44 PM |
#36 |
| -
about the New York City subway, should it be subsidized? |
CreekDog |
Feb-14-11 12:48 PM |
#38 |
| -
Your question is a Red Herring. Local transit and national transit are not the same issues. |
slackmaster |
Feb-14-11 12:56 PM |
#41 |
| -
you said that "...long-term transit subsidies take money away from more important things" |
CreekDog |
Feb-14-11 12:57 PM |
#42 |
| -
Your replies in this thread are argumentative. It's not a "rail is good" vs. "rail is bad" issue |
slackmaster |
Feb-14-11 01:00 PM |
#45 |
| -
but you set a standard that is likely not met anywhere |
CreekDog |
Feb-14-11 01:50 PM |
#52 |
| -
Is it "worth" subsidizing the Amtrak line connecting L.A. and New Orleans for more than $400... |
slackmaster |
Feb-14-11 03:12 PM |
#58 |
| -
is that what's being proposed for high speed rail? |
CreekDog |
Feb-14-11 04:03 PM |
#80 |
| -
I haven't seen any details on what is being proposed for high-speed rail |
slackmaster |
Feb-14-11 04:06 PM |
#82 |
| -
then why are you attacking a proposal based on the fact that Amtrak runs New Orleans to LA |
CreekDog |
Feb-14-11 04:18 PM |
#84 |
| -
I'm criticizing the idea of spending $600 billion over 20 years without a detailed financial plan |
slackmaster |
Feb-14-11 04:48 PM |
#85 |
| -
Trying to trick us? There is no plan to spend $600 billion in 20 years |
CreekDog |
Feb-14-11 05:33 PM |
#87 |
| -
if you saw a plan would you be able to recognize it? |
StarsInHerHair |
Feb-15-11 10:14 PM |
#101 |
| -
A rail project will give us healthcare, jobs, and education? |
WatsonT |
Feb-14-11 03:03 PM |
#53 |
| -
you're being dishonest, you stated that no passenger rail projects made money anywhere |
CreekDog |
Feb-14-11 12:22 PM |
#22 |
| -
Baloney, CreekDog. I have never said any such thing. |
slackmaster |
Feb-14-11 12:27 PM |
#25 |
| -
you said, "I don't know of an example, but I'm not sure there aren't any" |
CreekDog |
Feb-14-11 12:34 PM |
#28 |
| -
Saying "I don't know of any" is not the same as saying that none exist |
slackmaster |
Feb-14-11 12:43 PM |
#35 |
| -
then why did you say "I'm sure there aren't any" (in the same sentence!) |
CreekDog |
Feb-14-11 12:54 PM |
#40 |
| -
RIF - I said "I'm _not_ sure there aren't any" as you quoted me up-thread |
slackmaster |
Feb-14-11 12:58 PM |
#43 |
| -
true |
CreekDog |
Feb-14-11 01:01 PM |
#46 |
| -
PEACE! |
slackmaster |
Feb-14-11 01:02 PM |
#48 |
| -
What modes of transportation are self-sustaining? eom |
Hello_Kitty |
Feb-14-11 03:37 PM |
#71 |
| -
The US highway system |
slackmaster |
Feb-14-11 03:39 PM |
#72 |
| -
Considering the state of many of our roads and bridges there shouldn't be a surplus. |
Hello_Kitty |
Feb-14-11 03:45 PM |
#76 |
| -
Anyone remember the I-35 bridge collapse in MN? |
Kennah |
Feb-14-11 08:35 PM |
#89 |
| -
What modes of transportation have been money-makers? |
Hello_Kitty |
Feb-14-11 03:36 PM |
#70 |
| -
The US highway system brings in more money than it costs to maintain |
slackmaster |
Feb-14-11 03:40 PM |
#73 |
| -
Not this year, apparently |
Hello_Kitty |
Feb-14-11 03:49 PM |
#77 |
| -
Good catch |
slackmaster |
Feb-14-11 03:54 PM |
#79 |
| -
Recommend nt |
Saturday |
Feb-14-11 09:32 AM |
#3 |
| -
K&R, thank you. |
great white snark |
Feb-14-11 09:42 AM |
#5 |
| -
I don't think he's "dead wrong", he makes some valid points |
paulk |
Feb-14-11 10:20 AM |
#12 |
| -
A year ago when I helped a daughter plan a UK train trip, the website |
karynnj |
Feb-14-11 11:06 AM |
#15 |
| -
To Those That Agree with Samuelson |
Yavin4 |
Feb-14-11 12:18 PM |
#20 |
| -
I'm OK with having government continue to not (net) subsidize highway travel |
slackmaster |
Feb-14-11 12:20 PM |
#21 |
| -
Fuel Efficient Vehicles Are Not The Answer to |
Yavin4 |
Feb-14-11 12:33 PM |
#27 |
| -
Fuel-efficient vehicles are absolutely necessary and will become more important as resources dwindle |
slackmaster |
Feb-14-11 12:40 PM |
#32 |
| -
Didn't Say They Were Not Necessary |
Yavin4 |
Feb-14-11 12:45 PM |
#37 |
| -
No, you said they were not "the" answer |
slackmaster |
Feb-14-11 01:01 PM |
#47 |
| -
Fuel Efficiency Is All Well and Good |
Yavin4 |
Feb-14-11 04:52 PM |
#86 |
| -
Greater fuel efficiency is a step towards progress, but not the end game |
Kennah |
Feb-14-11 08:40 PM |
#90 |
| -
Interesting. |
ProSense |
Feb-14-11 01:13 PM |
#49 |
| -
What do long-distance trains run on? |
slackmaster |
Feb-14-11 01:32 PM |
#50 |
| -
There are always arguments against |
ProSense |
Feb-14-11 01:43 PM |
#51 |
| -
Let's compare apples to apples. Amtrak claims 28% higher fuel efficiency than passenger vehicles. |
slackmaster |
Feb-14-11 03:05 PM |
#55 |
| -
So |
ProSense |
Feb-14-11 03:21 PM |
#63 |
| -
My replies 21, 32, and 47 are all clearly supportive of fuel efficiency |
slackmaster |
Feb-14-11 03:35 PM |
#69 |
| -
"Perhaps my point would be harder to misunderstand if I had used the term "tax penalties" Well, |
ProSense |
Feb-14-11 03:42 PM |
#75 |
| -
Water and pixie dust |
WatsonT |
Feb-14-11 03:05 PM |
#54 |
| -
Too late to edit, I realized a better title would be "Trains: How Do They Work?" |
slackmaster |
Feb-14-11 03:12 PM |
#59 |
| -
no "the market" has never been honest, they lie about expiration dares on |
StarsInHerHair |
Feb-15-11 10:22 PM |
#102 |
| -
Amtrak is a financial disaster requiring massive tax payer subsidies |
golfguru |
Feb-14-11 03:28 PM |
#66 |
| -
"No thanks, no more government bureaucrats deciding what is good for us." |
ProSense |
Feb-14-11 03:34 PM |
#68 |
| -
Post Office, Amtrak are never profitable |
golfguru |
Feb-14-11 10:42 PM |
#92 |
| -
Post office isn't suppose to make a profit |
ProSense |
Feb-15-11 11:29 PM |
#104 |
| -
If we always waited until the private sector thought things were profitable |
Hello_Kitty |
Feb-14-11 03:40 PM |
#74 |
| -
Just a couple of data points here... |
slackmaster |
Feb-14-11 03:52 PM |
#78 |
| -
They were government investments that private companies found practical uses for |
Hello_Kitty |
Feb-14-11 04:05 PM |
#81 |
| -
They would not necessarily have ever been developed had government not started them |
slackmaster |
Feb-14-11 04:07 PM |
#83 |
| -
Telephone, Transistor, Airplanes, Steam Locomotive, |
golfguru |
Feb-14-11 10:40 PM |
#91 |
| -
Nice products |
ProSense |
Feb-15-11 11:41 PM |
#105 |
| -
As opposed to you, I actually worked in a government funded |
golfguru |
Feb-16-11 12:31 AM |
#106 |
| -
"The money we wasted will make you puke." |
ProSense |
Feb-16-11 02:04 AM |
#107 |
| -
Private companies have to produce PROFITS |
golfguru |
Feb-16-11 10:04 PM |
#108 |
| -
And they still waste money |
ProSense |
Feb-16-11 10:23 PM |
#110 |
| -
Profits are the surest indicator that the product or service |
golfguru |
Feb-17-11 01:13 AM |
#112 |
| -
Private companies have to produce PROFITS |
golfguru |
Feb-16-11 10:04 PM |
#109 |
| -
Incorrect |
golfguru |
Feb-14-11 10:54 PM |
#94 |
| -
Yeah, let's see them link Salt Lake to Denver via high speed rail. |
Common Sense Party |
Feb-14-11 10:48 PM |
#93 |
| -
Its Good to Have More Options for Travel |
AndyTiedye |
Feb-15-11 08:43 PM |
#96 |
| -
Priorities |
lovefreedomfairness |
Feb-17-11 05:14 AM |
#113 |
Printer-friendly format
Email this thread to a friend
Bookmark this thread