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Reply #164: I think we are both responding to someone else's post, because I DID NOT say [View All]

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Liberal_Stalwart71 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-15-10 12:43 PM
Response to Reply #160
164. I think we are both responding to someone else's post, because I DID NOT say
Edited on Tue Jun-15-10 12:48 PM by Liberal_Stalwart71
that I would rather have Palin. I said that DUers who are upset with Obama would rather have Palin because they are threatening to sit out in 2012. Go back and re-read my post.

You also need to do a search on my posts because if you did, you will see that:

1. I wasn't an Obama supporter. I was a Kucinich supporter.
2. Even when Kucinich dropped out, I was an Edwards supporter.
3. Do a search of my postings. You will see that I have criticized Obama on everything from his appointments; to lack of support for the public option; FISA decision; drones in Afghanistan; not hitting Republicans back hard when they lie and his obsession with bipartisanship. The list goes on and on.

I'm also learning that there is no middle ground here on DU. No balance. Very little practicality.

If you are critical of Obama when necessary, then you hate him. If you defend him when it is warranted, then you are a Robot, an apologist who cannot accept criticism.

If you are critical of Clinton when he fucks up, then you hate him and his wife. If you defend Clinton--as I have because despite his mistakes, he was a good president overall--then you are a "Clintonista," an apologist.

Here's one in several instances where I feel that it is necessary and important to defend Obama in as much as I believe that no other president in history has had to deal with the mounting challenges coming from all sides--and the magnitude of those challenges--that the president is faced with. And yes, I absolutely believe that in the larger scheme of things when Democrats are threatening to take their ball and go home because they're angry at Obama for something, I believe that it is the "Black Tax" operating. Again, the fact that people are willing to give Clinton 8 years despite very bad policies, and aren't willing to do the same for Obama--I mean, at least give the brother one FULL term, to me suggests that there is something else at work here.

Now, in the end, if Obama continues down the same, very bad path as his predecessors, then yes, I think he should pay for it. Yes, I think he should be criticized. And yes, I don't think he deserves support. But, all this talk about sitting out elections I find very odd and disturbing.

Just as you're sick of the "don't criticize Obama shit," I get sick and tired of the "I'm-stomping off-like-a-spoiled-brat-because-Obama-didn't-do-this-or-that" bullshit.

And don't get it twisted. I'm no lemming. I voted for Nader in 2000. I went against the Establishment and didn't care what color they were many times. I'm not the kind of person who goes along with party just because people think that that's what you're supposed to do.

In the end, if Obama has fucked up, I will say so and behave accordingly. But I WILL NOT sit out an election. To me, that's the most ignorant thing a person can do. We cannot afford to have Republicans back in power! PERIOD! No matter how bad people think Obama is, we cannot allow that to happen.
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  -So will all of you who say you're gonna sit out the '12 election/vote 3rd party REALLY OK with Pres. jenmito  Jun-13-10 08:18 PM   #0 
  - I'm convinced some are fine with their self-fulfilling prophecies.  AtomicKitten   Jun-13-10 08:21 PM   #1 
  - From what I read here, not only do some here say they're definitely NOT going to  jenmito   Jun-13-10 08:23 PM   #2 
  - The 2000 election was pivotal.  AtomicKitten   Jun-13-10 10:27 PM   #60 
  - +1000  suzie   Jun-15-10 08:58 AM   #148 
  - Why is it always, "they" with you?  niceypoo   Jun-15-10 09:21 AM   #152 
  - LOL  Frances   Jun-13-10 08:27 PM   #5 
  - Elections have consequences. Sometimes the damage isn't fully realized until years later. nt  AtomicKitten   Jun-13-10 08:31 PM   #9 
  - Extremely important point by you and the responder to you who said elections have consequences and  stevenleser   Jun-13-10 09:36 PM   #43 
  - Very astute observation. n/t  Fire1   Jun-14-10 12:10 PM   #116 
  - Totally agree  CakeGrrl   Jun-14-10 01:15 AM   #79 
     - I agree.  AtomicKitten   Jun-15-10 12:24 AM   #138 
  - On the bright side: a Pres. Palin would mean the end of the Repub party for the next 200 yrs.  Speck Tater   Jun-13-10 08:24 PM   #3 
  - I think it would bring a civil war to this country  MadMaddie   Jun-13-10 08:24 PM   #4 
  - I believe you.  TxVietVet   Jun-13-10 08:27 PM   #6 
     - Yep!  MadMaddie   Jun-13-10 08:49 PM   #20 
     - It took 6 years to revolt against Bushco  Proud Liberal Dem   Jun-14-10 05:56 AM   #83 
     - I am not crazy about any religious fanatics  golfguru   Jun-14-10 04:34 PM   #125 
  - That's precisely what some people were saying about George W Bush in 2000  Hippo_Tron   Jun-13-10 09:10 PM   #35 
  - We said that about W too. (nt)  Nicholas D Wolfwood   Jun-15-10 08:38 AM   #147 
  - Fear tactics only go so far...  depakid   Jun-13-10 08:28 PM   #7 
  - So if Obama's polling plummets, they're more likely to nominate a loon?  Robb   Jun-13-10 08:30 PM   #8 
  - If either Obama polls very well- or polls very poorly in terms of disapproval  depakid   Jun-13-10 08:38 PM   #12 
  - WHAT fear tactics? Please explain fear tactics vs. facts. n/t  jenmito   Jun-13-10 08:36 PM   #11 
  - Simple  depakid   Jun-13-10 08:41 PM   #15 
     - Which means you DON'T think Palin (or any other Palin-like nutjob) is  jenmito   Jun-13-10 08:43 PM   #17 
        - No- as I said, Palin hasn't got a snowball's chance in hell  depakid   Jun-13-10 09:01 PM   #29 
           - It could be her or someone LIKE her. Would you not mind living with her or someone LIKE  jenmito   Jun-13-10 09:05 PM   #33 
              - Let's put it this way- Huck would be a lot better than Bush  depakid   Jun-13-10 09:12 PM   #36 
                 - He's a Christain fundamentalist. He's a million percent against gay rights. He puts  jenmito   Jun-13-10 09:16 PM   #37 
                    - He's more of an economic populist than Bush ever was  depakid   Jun-13-10 09:28 PM   #42 
                       - He could very well be right, along with John Thune as another example.  jenmito   Jun-13-10 09:55 PM   #48 
                          - I think Obama and his advisors have made their own beds with cynical triangulation  depakid   Jun-13-10 10:26 PM   #58 
                             - You didn't answer my questions. n/t  jenmito   Jun-13-10 10:29 PM   #61 
                                - Sure I have- the more the President enables, legitimizes Republicans- and adopts their policies  depakid   Jun-13-10 10:43 PM   #63 
                                   - I asked you-  jenmito   Jun-14-10 10:20 AM   #102 
                                      - Interesting  Sheepshank   Jun-14-10 02:09 PM   #120 
                                         - Very interesting. And perhaps worth exploring some more, given the numerous  suzie   Jun-15-10 09:01 AM   #149 
                                            - Crikey- are some of you really as thick as the responses above suggest?  depakid   Jun-15-10 10:37 PM   #181 
  - "Fear tactics only go so far..."  pnorman   Jun-13-10 08:39 PM   #14 
  - save your breath, there is no reasoning  demtenjeep   Jun-13-10 08:32 PM   #10 
  - I'd just like to hear the 'logic" of those who are willing to live under a President Palin  jenmito   Jun-13-10 08:39 PM   #13 
     - Jesus christ on a pogo stick.  muffin1   Jun-14-10 11:12 AM   #109 
        - we do hold his feet to the fire. we do not threaten to vote or let  nofurylike   Jun-15-10 02:54 AM   #141 
           - Did you urge him to escalate the war in Afghanistan?  muffin1   Jun-15-10 07:01 AM   #144 
              - the trashing was so immediate and fierce there was no reason  nofurylike   Jun-16-10 01:33 AM   #183 
  - Deleted message  Name removed   Jun-13-10 08:42 PM   #16 
  - So you are one of those who's ready and willing to have Palin as president...  jenmito   Jun-13-10 08:45 PM   #18 
  - I have no idea what I'll do in 2012.  Beacool   Jun-13-10 08:48 PM   #19 
     - So your comment is already inoperative?:  jenmito   Jun-13-10 08:51 PM   #21 
     - Why inoperative?  Beacool   Jun-13-10 08:53 PM   #23 
        - Hmmm...  jenmito   Jun-13-10 08:59 PM   #28 
           - I don't approve of sexism, even when it's applied to Palin.  Beacool   Jun-13-10 09:05 PM   #32 
              - WHAT sexism? She plays the victim every chance she gets! And she claims her children  jenmito   Jun-13-10 09:50 PM   #46 
     - I KNOW I will be voting for the Democratic nominee in 2012 if I am well and able,  karynnj   Jun-14-10 07:14 AM   #84 
        - Oh, I never said that I would ever vote for a Republican.  Beacool   Jun-14-10 08:15 AM   #90 
           - I never would have voted for a republican either  karynnj   Jun-14-10 08:35 AM   #93 
  - you have every right to feel the way you do  Frances   Jun-13-10 10:14 PM   #55 
     - I guess that I don't have the right to feel the way I do since the moderators deleted the message.  Beacool   Jun-14-10 01:08 AM   #77 
        - Freedom of Speech Fail.  SemiCharmedQuark   Jun-14-10 08:18 AM   #91 
        - I'm still curious why you chose Hillary's pix  Frances   Jun-14-10 01:48 PM   #118 
           - It's simple.  Beacool   Jun-15-10 12:14 AM   #137 
              - But are you showing respect for Hillary  Frances   Jun-15-10 12:06 PM   #157 
  - I am generally a pretty tolerant sort, but how many variations of this simple-minded bullshit  Atticus   Jun-13-10 08:52 PM   #22 
  - It's not MY words, it's the words of people on this very board who  jenmito   Jun-13-10 08:54 PM   #24 
  - I was specifically referring to the OP, which was YOUR words. Why are you trying to avoid  Atticus   Jun-13-10 09:03 PM   #30 
     - Uh, yes, my OP asked  jenmito   Jun-13-10 10:00 PM   #50 
        - Please, don't we have enough drama and hyperventalating?  Go2Peace   Jun-13-10 11:17 PM   #68 
           - Thank you. nt  Atticus   Jun-13-10 11:27 PM   #69 
           - +200  RedRoses323   Jun-14-10 07:52 AM   #88 
           - Speak for yourself. I'M talking about people here who said they WON'T vote for Obama in '12, that  jenmito   Jun-14-10 10:25 AM   #105 
  - +100. Good post  Go2Peace   Jun-13-10 11:08 PM   #66 
  - Deleted message  Name removed   Jun-13-10 08:56 PM   #25 
  - We did not survive Reagan, his anti-govt. rhetoric is with you everywhere and infected  Jennicut   Jun-13-10 08:59 PM   #27 
  - Are you seriously asking what the difference is to a lgbtq person whether we have  jenmito   Jun-13-10 09:04 PM   #31 
  - It is deleted now. Can you give a clue as to the author?  Pirate Smile   Jun-13-10 09:55 PM   #49 
  - Shame.  jefferson_dem   Jun-13-10 10:12 PM   #54 
  - I'm PRETTY sure I remember...  jenmito   Jun-13-10 10:25 PM   #57 
  - The President is opposed to equal rights.  Bluenorthwest   Jun-14-10 09:41 AM   #97 
  - My best friend is gay.  muffin1   Jun-14-10 11:41 AM   #112 
  - WoW that'll teach us?  jaxx   Jun-13-10 09:06 PM   #34 
  - You really don't get it  KingFlorez   Jun-13-10 09:19 PM   #40 
  - I think it is a question of would some rather use a third party vote as a message to the Dem  Jennicut   Jun-13-10 08:57 PM   #26 
  - I like your comment about sending Dems a message. That's  Lindsey   Jun-13-10 09:17 PM   #38 
     - Well, attentions spans ARE shorter these days. At least my kids are....  Jennicut   Jun-13-10 09:22 PM   #41 
     - If you'll vote for a Dem no matter what, then what incentive will the Dems have to  Raineyb   Jun-15-10 01:30 PM   #168 
        - After 8 LONG freaking years of George W. Bush??  AsahinaKimi   Jun-16-10 05:53 AM   #186 
  - Palin will never be president.  Orsino   Jun-13-10 09:17 PM   #39 
  - Don't ever say that!  Joe Bacon   Jun-13-10 09:38 PM   #44 
     - Nope. Won't happen for Palin.  Orsino   Jun-13-10 09:49 PM   #45 
        - Fox is the biggest money there is  Frances   Jun-14-10 10:06 AM   #101 
           - And Palin loves Fox money.  Orsino   Jun-14-10 10:20 AM   #103 
  - Obama becoming president seems to have people losing their minds.  volvoblue   Jun-13-10 09:54 PM   #47 
  - Excellent post.  jefferson_dem   Jun-13-10 10:08 PM   #52 
  - If by minds you mean "independent thought" then yes, they have.  spoony   Jun-14-10 12:46 AM   #73 
  - Excellent post  HughMoran   Jun-14-10 09:48 AM   #98 
  - I don't know what I'll actually DO in '12, but  socialist_n_TN   Jun-14-10 10:21 AM   #104 
  - Wow...  tallahasseedem   Jun-14-10 02:29 PM   #122 
  - The left is betraying Obama?????  muffin1   Jun-14-10 03:28 PM   #123 
  - What asinine drivel  Raineyb   Jun-15-10 01:41 PM   #169 
  - Deleted message  Name removed   Jun-13-10 10:04 PM   #51 
  - I'm utterly convinced ...  jefferson_dem   Jun-13-10 10:10 PM   #53 
  - Strangely, it is a lot like late-night talk shows...  PBS Poll-435   Jun-13-10 10:21 PM   #56 
  - Are you going to make us take a Loyalty Oath?  BuelahWitch   Jun-13-10 10:27 PM   #59 
  - You didn't comprehend my post.  jenmito   Jun-13-10 10:32 PM   #62 
     - Don't act like you posted something profound, or original.  spoony   Jun-13-10 11:11 PM   #67 
        - You're part of the problem. You think of Obama as "whatever the Democrats stuff in  jenmito   Jun-14-10 10:31 AM   #106 
           - "You're part of the problem" = "get back in line and stop asking questions"  spoony   Jun-14-10 04:16 PM   #124 
              - Ummm, no.  jenmito   Jun-15-10 12:06 PM   #156 
  - I'll never sit out an election! Not after 8 years of Bustards!  agentS   Jun-13-10 11:04 PM   #64 
  - Well said!  akbacchus_BC   Jun-14-10 12:50 AM   #75 
  - Why should anyone bother answering you  spoony   Jun-13-10 11:08 PM   #65 
  - I fear Palin, but Obama hasn't motivated me.  LittleBlue   Jun-14-10 12:02 AM   #70 
  - Obama isn't the one who's going to lose. WE are.  CakeGrrl   Jun-14-10 01:42 AM   #80 
     - Social Security  libmom74   Jun-15-10 12:56 PM   #165 
  - Epic fail. n/t  Catherina   Jun-14-10 12:16 AM   #71 
  - It's Obama's own fault - and yours for not pulling out of iraqistan, closing gitmo, etc...  grahamhgreen   Jun-14-10 12:40 AM   #72 
  - It's Obama's own fault and MINE?  jenmito   Jun-14-10 10:35 AM   #107 
     - Yes - as well as many others here.  muffin1   Jun-14-10 11:44 AM   #113 
        - Good point.  avaistheone1   Jun-16-10 01:35 AM   #184 
  - They deserve more Conservatives! Best fucking country in the world,  akbacchus_BC   Jun-14-10 12:49 AM   #74 
  - Hmmm....sounds like you're hoping for the country to fail  spoony   Jun-14-10 12:54 AM   #76 
     - Read my message again, I am rooting for America. If America fails,  akbacchus_BC   Jun-14-10 01:14 AM   #78 
        - Wow- you sure don't sound like any Canadian I've ever met  depakid   Jun-14-10 07:32 AM   #86 
  - No, I'm not okay with a President Palin and I'm disappointed that I'm not okay with President Obama  TheKentuckian   Jun-14-10 02:21 AM   #81 
  - Speaking just for myself.. hell no  abq e streeter   Jun-14-10 03:22 AM   #82 
  - scare tactics!  bigwillq   Jun-14-10 07:27 AM   #85 
  - So you are not in the least bit scared of having a Republican President again?  treestar   Jun-14-10 07:47 AM   #87 
     - We will have a republican president again  bigwillq   Jun-14-10 07:55 AM   #89 
  - If you honestly think that Palin is going to get the presidential nod,  MadHound   Jun-14-10 08:18 AM   #92 
  - I was hoping by 2010 that we'd have a better message to run on than "We're not them!".  Forkboy   Jun-14-10 08:40 AM   #94 
  - I just wish the Central Committee would send out some fresh talking points.  QC   Jun-14-10 08:46 AM   #96 
     - I think "threaten them with Palin" days fall every three days.  kiva   Jun-14-10 10:00 AM   #99 
     - I was just going to say that.  muffin1   Jun-14-10 10:48 AM   #108 
  - Meh, I doubt that anything more than 1% of them even voted for Obama in '08  WeDidIt   Jun-14-10 08:45 AM   #95 
  - Willful ignorance is a fundamentally Republican trait  TheKentuckian   Jun-15-10 08:25 AM   #146 
  - I'm totally voting Obama. n/t  vaberella   Jun-14-10 10:01 AM   #100 
  - That's like, you know, like, so AWESOME! n/t  QC   Jun-14-10 01:51 PM   #119 
  - They'll sit out. Then from 2012 to 2016 whine about Obama "deserting" them.  tranche   Jun-14-10 11:13 AM   #110 
  - I thought that the Republicans were the ones who used scare tactics.  totodeinhere   Jun-14-10 11:38 AM   #111 
  - Some have said the same about Bush---especially the second time around. n/t  vaberella   Jun-14-10 06:55 PM   #133 
  - the old, tired SCARE TACTICS routine  amborin   Jun-14-10 11:56 AM   #114 
  - It's not a bloody scare tactic when you have posters on DU---  vaberella   Jun-14-10 07:00 PM   #134 
  - Oh, and I keep forgetting this.  muffin1   Jun-14-10 12:04 PM   #115 
  - If you think Dumbya Bush's administration was bad then sit out...  kjackson227   Jun-14-10 12:42 PM   #117 
  - I don't think Palin will be a 2012 GOP nominee  Sheepshank   Jun-14-10 02:18 PM   #121 
  - Better her than a black man. They gave Clinton 8 years to screw up and deregulate  Liberal_Stalwart71   Jun-14-10 05:56 PM   #126 
  - So, because some people take issue with many of Obama's  muffin1   Jun-14-10 06:05 PM   #127 
  - Yes, that is exactly what the poster is saying.  demmiblue   Jun-14-10 06:25 PM   #129 
  - Crazy is one word for it...  muffin1   Jun-14-10 06:29 PM   #131 
  - Because many of them are! We learned that clearly during the primaries.  Liberal_Stalwart71   Jun-15-10 12:01 PM   #153 
  - No, but I think it's odd that with all the mistakes Clinton made, no one blames  Liberal_Stalwart71   Jun-14-10 06:28 PM   #130 
     - No one blames Clinton? On DU?  muffin1   Jun-14-10 06:41 PM   #132 
     - If my post isn't directed at you, then there's no need for you to respond to me, is there?  Liberal_Stalwart71   Jun-15-10 12:03 PM   #155 
        - First of all, I'm responding to your reply to ME.  muffin1   Jun-15-10 12:21 PM   #160 
           - I think we are both responding to someone else's post, because I DID NOT say  Liberal_Stalwart71   Jun-15-10 12:43 PM   #164 
     - I most certainly do  spoony   Jun-14-10 11:25 PM   #136 
     - Again, you can attack me all you want. But if my words *assumptions*  Liberal_Stalwart71   Jun-15-10 12:10 PM   #158 
        - So you call a bunch of people you don't know racists and whine about being "attacked"  spoony   Jun-15-10 10:34 PM   #179 
     - +1  suzie   Jun-15-10 09:16 AM   #150 
  - Oh, that tired talking point again!  Lydia Leftcoast   Jun-15-10 01:05 AM   #140 
  - Right. And, I'm not suggesting that I would support him if he does that.  Liberal_Stalwart71   Jun-15-10 12:20 PM   #159 
     - Given our experience with Clinton  Lydia Leftcoast   Jun-15-10 02:57 PM   #170 
  - Your answer is that Obama be given eight years to deregulate, privatize, and screw up as an equal  TheKentuckian   Jun-15-10 08:16 AM   #145 
     - NO! Wrong!! Please think before writing trash like this.  Liberal_Stalwart71   Jun-15-10 12:26 PM   #162 
        - I did think before I wrote, you just don't like the result  TheKentuckian   Jun-15-10 06:14 PM   #173 
           - I don't disagree with this assessment re: Robinson, but I still can't  Liberal_Stalwart71   Jun-15-10 07:23 PM   #177 
              - I can agree to disagree about Clinton, at the very least. Like I said  TheKentuckian   Jun-15-10 08:03 PM   #178 
  - I don't see any difference...  Grinchie   Jun-14-10 06:15 PM   #128 
  - Deleted message  Name removed   Jun-14-10 09:28 PM   #135 
  - yes, palin would be the exact same as obama. you are a genius.  dionysus   Jun-15-10 12:23 PM   #161 
  - I'm trying to think of something Obama has done that the Republicans haven't  Lydia Leftcoast   Jun-15-10 01:02 AM   #139 
  - The healthcare bill contains every republican idea  niceypoo   Jun-15-10 09:17 AM   #151 
  - If we average one of these threads per week until November of 2012  hulka38   Jun-15-10 03:26 AM   #142 
  - They would  treestar   Jun-15-10 06:03 AM   #143 
  - Fail  Tailormyst   Jun-15-10 12:03 PM   #154 
  - If you fail to vote for Obama, our COUNTRY will fail. We'll go back to being despised by the  jenmito   Jun-15-10 12:34 PM   #163 
     - Double fail.  emilyg   Jun-15-10 12:59 PM   #166 
     - If only HILLARY were president!  jenmito   Jun-15-10 01:04 PM   #167 
        - Possibly so.  emilyg   Jun-15-10 06:32 PM   #175 
           - are you serious?  DonCoquixote   Jun-16-10 06:16 AM   #187 
     - Fail  Tailormyst   Jun-15-10 04:07 PM   #171 
     - Just put "VOTE OBAMA OR ELSE BOOGA BOOGA" in your sigline  spoony   Jun-15-10 10:36 PM   #180 
  - I'll vote for every progressive Democrat on the ballot.  branders seine   Jun-15-10 05:48 PM   #172 
  - false argument  backwoodsbob   Jun-15-10 06:30 PM   #174 
  - Palin would not be the GOP nominee. GOPers mostly do not like her.  Divine Discontent   Jun-15-10 07:10 PM   #176 
  - Palin is not getting the assured n/t  golfguru   Jun-15-10 10:52 PM   #182 
  - Translation:  niceypoo   Jun-16-10 02:36 AM   #185 

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