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Reply #201: Do you not realize how massively different these things are in scale? [View All]

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harmonicon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-27-11 01:49 AM
Response to Reply #200
201. Do you not realize how massively different these things are in scale?
Cuba is one small-ish island with a population of about 11 million with a largely uniform culture (despite the people coming from numerous historical backgrounds), where as the USSR was a massive multi-continent empire made up of many different regions and countries brought together over decades (sometimes through illegal occupation, as in the case of the Baltic states). Far more than a representation of the failure of socialism, the failure of the USSR is one of many historical examples of the failure of empire, and in that sense, is far more relevant to the US than it is to Cuba (hint: it's not Cuba which is now trying to occupy and pacify Afghanistan for economic and political/strategic reasons). ... but this is beside the point, and off topic.

You are cherry picking your example ballots. You mention that in some (really very few) ballots in the US, there are sometimes runoffs, but you choose to present the ballot one level down from that to compare to a Cuban ballot which has also been narrowed to a final version by means of earlier votes and selection procedures (and, yes, the US and many other countries have numerous rules, laws, and hurdles before someone can be on a ballot).

If your contention really is that more choices at a single point in time = more freedom/democracy, why do you not then argue that Australia is a democracy and the US is not, if you are willing to use that reasoning to say that the US is but Cuba is not? Furthermore, Cuba has a lower voting age. Does this mean they have more democracy? Is democracy being denied in the US and Australia because of the difference in the eligible voting age, or is it simply yet another example of different countries having different cultures, customs, and laws?

To say that a certain percentage of the Cuban population is "exiled" is purposefully loaded speech. Sure, a hell of a lot of the upper crust got the fuck out when they learned that their free criminal ride was over. In the US we simply let them move their assets to tax havens and continue to swindle the rest of the populace. More importantly, with Cuba you are dealing with a small island nation. Do you know what the percentage of the populations of New Zealand and Ireland living overseas is? It's high, and neither of those countries have had to suffer the misfortune of the most powerful empire on earth persecuting them for the original sin of being born somewhere run by a government which kicked that empire out and told it to fuck itself.

However, thinking about this, I don't think I'm going to be able to convince you, despite all of the facts that can be presented. By bringing up what you imagine to be the "failure" of socialism, I'm guessing that what really bothers you is that Cuba is a communist country, and you simply can't deal with the fact that there is a prosperous, free, democratic country which has chosen communism as their best path forward in life. If you want to argue about socialism and communism, do it somewhere else. It is entirely unrelated to the case that I've been trying to make.
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  -Venezuela to spend oil income on social programmes Judi Lynn  Apr-23-11 12:44 PM   #0 
  - Damned Socialist.  bullimiami   Apr-23-11 12:49 PM   #1 
  - PROFITS TO THE PEOPLE NOT CORPORATIONS, OH YEAH!  PonyJon   Apr-24-11 09:40 AM   #142 
     - Absolutely right. Welcome to D.U., PonyJon.  Judi Lynn   Apr-25-11 03:05 AM   #172 
  - Good! I'll just keep on tolerating the crappy pumps in the Shell station I use. nt  patrice   Apr-23-11 12:53 PM   #2 
  - Yeah, Shell is so kind to Nigerians and it isn't ruled by a socialist dictator!  JackRiddler   Apr-23-11 05:57 PM   #90 
  - You ahbor a President bringing change to a population which was loathed,  Judi Lynn   Apr-25-11 04:22 AM   #177 
  - What a scumbag.  Forkboy   Apr-23-11 12:54 PM   #3 
  - How un-American. nt  Zorra   Apr-23-11 12:58 PM   #4 
  - Really...  watajob   Apr-23-11 08:42 PM   #117 
     - Welcome to D.U., watajob. n/t  Judi Lynn   Apr-25-11 04:24 AM   #178 
  - Venezuela to set up fund  Judi Lynn   Apr-23-11 01:01 PM   #5 
  - So the greedy speculators inadvertently  sabrina 1   Apr-23-11 01:14 PM   #9 
     - They'd probably rather have taken poison than to have inadvertently helped the poor! n/t  Judi Lynn   Apr-23-11 01:21 PM   #10 
     - Yes, although the greed is so intense  sabrina 1   Apr-23-11 01:33 PM   #12 
     - Profits are being leeched by the idle wealthy....  dencol   Apr-24-11 05:06 AM   #130 
        - They are known by their deeds in every country they infest, aren't they? Sheesh. n/t  Judi Lynn   Apr-25-11 04:25 AM   #179 
  - He may be a totalitarian dictator  FLPanhandle   Apr-23-11 01:02 PM   #6 
  - He was ELECTED and RE-ELECTED by a huge margin.  mysterysoup   Apr-23-11 01:58 PM   #16 
  - So was Castro  FLPanhandle   Apr-23-11 02:47 PM   #25 
  - You seem confused about what "dictator" means.  harmonicon   Apr-23-11 02:49 PM   #26 
  - LOL  FLPanhandle   Apr-23-11 02:55 PM   #30 
     - Do you have proof that Castro wasn't elected?  harmonicon   Apr-23-11 02:58 PM   #31 
     - You do realize, don't you, that HITLER was democratically elected?  tblue37   Apr-23-11 03:50 PM   #43 
     - hitler was never elected to anything.  KG   Apr-23-11 04:32 PM   #53 
        - But his appointment was constitutionally legal. He did not seize power in a coup. n/t  totodeinhere   Apr-23-11 05:32 PM   #84 
           - never suggested otherwise. but i've heard many people make that claim.  KG   Apr-23-11 06:34 PM   #110 
              - Parliamentary system of government  DissedByBush   Apr-24-11 08:28 AM   #137 
                 - ... and the US military personnel were greeted as liberators... (nt)  harmonicon   Apr-24-11 09:59 AM   #144 
     - Leftists have far more in common with the far-right than they do with  UnrepentantLiberal   Apr-23-11 03:55 PM   #44 
     - this comment is supposed to mean what?  harmonicon   Apr-23-11 04:47 PM   #59 
     - It is not supposed to mean much  liberation   Apr-23-11 04:56 PM   #64 
     - The poster means leftist as in socialist or communist -  TBF   Apr-24-11 10:31 AM   #148 
        - but what the hell then is "liberal Democrat" supposed to mean? nt  harmonicon   Apr-24-11 11:34 AM   #150 
           - I think in terms of status quo and resistance.  TBF   Apr-24-11 12:59 PM   #153 
              - I know that it was supposed to be some kind of insult or baiting...  harmonicon   Apr-24-11 02:09 PM   #156 
                 - I simply answered from my perspective.  TBF   Apr-24-11 09:42 PM   #167 
                    - Oh, I wasn't asking you to define it.  harmonicon   Apr-24-11 09:44 PM   #168 
     - Please provide any honest links you have to substantiate your claim leftists  Judi Lynn   Apr-25-11 03:16 AM   #174 
     - Fine, fine. Castro was fairly elected over and over and over and....  FLPanhandle   Apr-23-11 04:58 PM   #65 
        - The obvious is what? That facts mean nothing to you?  harmonicon   Apr-23-11 05:06 PM   #73 
     - castro became a dictator  reggie the dog   Apr-23-11 03:39 PM   #39 
     - Chavez is headed toward becoming a dictator.  UnrepentantLiberal   Apr-23-11 04:27 PM   #52 
     - so the legislature voted a law  reggie the dog   Apr-23-11 04:36 PM   #56 
     - So you're in favor of someone deciding for you  UnrepentantLiberal   Apr-23-11 05:43 PM   #88 
        - if the democrats had a large enough majority  reggie the dog   Apr-23-11 06:09 PM   #96 
     - The article you have linked is OPINION, not a news story.  Judi Lynn   Apr-25-11 04:10 AM   #175 
     - "chavez just got bad press because he nationalized the oil interests"  bloomington-lib   Apr-23-11 05:42 PM   #87 
     - perhaps he is parinoid  reggie the dog   Apr-23-11 06:07 PM   #94 
     - Outlawing outlaws  classysassy   Apr-24-11 02:23 AM   #127 
     - FLP, every time there is a Chavez post.  dotymed   Apr-23-11 04:23 PM   #48 
        - Really? "Ape-shit"?  FLPanhandle   Apr-23-11 05:01 PM   #67 
           - try looking at these:  harmonicon   Apr-23-11 05:07 PM   #74 
           - Ah yes.  FLPanhandle   Apr-23-11 05:17 PM   #77 
              - many people on this thread have explained these things to you already...  harmonicon   Apr-23-11 05:19 PM   #79 
              - You don't even listen to what people say.  Forkboy   Apr-23-11 05:30 PM   #83 
           - Dissenting view?  bitchkitty   Apr-23-11 05:17 PM   #78 
           - Yep, Calling a President who has been elected by a verifiable  dotymed   Apr-23-11 05:35 PM   #86 
           - It's an amusing, commonly used word, recognized and honored by U.S. citizens, normally.  Judi Lynn   Apr-28-11 04:58 AM   #208 
  - except that the united nations election monitors  reggie the dog   Apr-23-11 03:37 PM   #38 
  - and the number of parties matters how?  harmonicon   Apr-23-11 04:50 PM   #60 
     - are you making the argument that a one party system  reggie the dog   Apr-23-11 06:10 PM   #97 
        - I'm saying that it can be as much as a two party system can.  harmonicon   Apr-23-11 06:16 PM   #101 
        - The people of Cuba have no say over who will represent them.  joshcryer   Apr-23-11 08:43 PM   #118 
           - that's a bit of an exaggeration  harmonicon   Apr-23-11 09:52 PM   #120 
              - No one can run for office that is not vetted by a Candidate Commission.  joshcryer   Apr-24-11 12:33 AM   #123 
                 - did not just do it  tiny elvis   Apr-24-11 03:07 AM   #129 
                 - Yes, they did "just do it." It was never tested in court, IACHR deemed it illegal and blacklisted...  joshcryer   Apr-24-11 03:48 PM   #157 
                 - I'm not saying that you or I should agree with the Cuban system,  harmonicon   Apr-24-11 09:57 AM   #143 
                    - Yes, but when the US does undemocratic things, there are people like you or me...  joshcryer   Apr-24-11 03:49 PM   #158 
                       - Care to cite some sources for that?  harmonicon   Apr-24-11 04:57 PM   #160 
                          - Read about the Black Spring.  joshcryer   Apr-24-11 07:35 PM   #162 
                             - The Varela Project I knew about  harmonicon   Apr-24-11 08:26 PM   #164 
                                - IF you haven't seen this yet, written by a former CIA guy, it may help, if you take the time:  Judi Lynn   Apr-24-11 09:22 PM   #165 
                                - It's not baffling.  harmonicon   Apr-24-11 09:41 PM   #166 
                                - It's true providing some checkable facts gives the ones whose character demands answers  Judi Lynn   Apr-24-11 10:29 PM   #171 
                                - Everything I said is factual, and checkable.  joshcryer   Apr-25-11 09:23 PM   #190 
                                - I don't think an "index" put together by a for profit company...  harmonicon   Apr-25-11 11:13 PM   #194 
                                - I'm fully open to other indexes...  joshcryer   Apr-26-11 02:31 AM   #195 
                                - Still, with no real way to substantiate...  harmonicon   Apr-26-11 02:58 AM   #196 
                                - By saying it is a democracy, you are watering down the term.  joshcryer   Apr-26-11 04:36 AM   #197 
                                - The USSR doesn't exist anymore, and we're not discussing that.  harmonicon   Apr-26-11 04:45 AM   #198 
                                - The USSR is completely relevant, today, and forever. It shows how not to do socialism.  joshcryer   Apr-26-11 09:52 PM   #200 
                                - Do you not realize how massively different these things are in scale?  harmonicon   Apr-27-11 01:49 AM   #201 
                                - That's what's even more apalling about it.  joshcryer   Apr-28-11 01:24 AM   #203 
                                - Ok, we're way off topic, and/or just spinning wheels now, so I'll make this my last post on this.  harmonicon   Apr-28-11 01:54 AM   #204 
                                - It appears that you love to make things personal with people.  joshcryer   Apr-28-11 03:30 AM   #205 
                                - I haven't once said I agree with Castro's policies.  harmonicon   Apr-28-11 04:36 AM   #206 
                                - I had something to add after seeing your post, didn't read anything by the other poster,  Judi Lynn   Apr-28-11 04:55 AM   #207 
                                - Your post does not invalidate what I have said.  joshcryer   Apr-28-11 06:54 AM   #209 
                                - It's certainly an odd situation.  harmonicon   Apr-28-11 08:31 AM   #210 
                                - Haven't been there, know people in my area who have. There are also quite a few DU'ers  Judi Lynn   Apr-28-11 08:51 AM   #211 
                                - The photos I've seen are great.  harmonicon   Apr-28-11 10:49 AM   #212 
                                - LOL, sounds about right, yuppies dreading the embargo lift...  joshcryer   Apr-28-11 11:14 PM   #213 
                                - Cuba doesn't have legalized prostitution. They will also never build casinos there.  Judi Lynn   Apr-29-11 02:07 AM   #214 
                                - I don't know if the original detraction was a troll, but I was merely responding to your...  joshcryer   Apr-25-11 09:24 PM   #191 
                                   - I wasn't accusing you of trolling at all.  harmonicon   Apr-25-11 11:10 PM   #193 
                                - Are you accusing people discussing Cuba here of being infiltrators?  joshcryer   Apr-25-11 09:05 PM   #188 
                                - Oswaldo Pay started it, and he is extremely clean, he takes no money from outside sources...  joshcryer   Apr-25-11 09:15 PM   #189 
                                   - again, I think this is apples and oranges.  harmonicon   Apr-25-11 11:05 PM   #192 
        - If it has more than one faction that has real political power, yes n/t  eridani   Apr-24-11 01:58 AM   #124 
           - you hit the nail on the head when you say "real political power"  reggie the dog   Apr-24-11 02:04 AM   #126 
  - Chavez has been elected in MULTI-PARTY elections  Ken Burch   Apr-23-11 06:03 PM   #93 
  - see my responses above.  harmonicon   Apr-23-11 06:18 PM   #104 
  - Castro was elected president by the assembly, not by popular vote.  roody   Apr-24-11 10:14 AM   #147 
  - Most leaders aren't elected by popular vote.  harmonicon   Apr-24-11 11:37 AM   #151 
  - The subject is Venezuela and oil profits. Try to concentrate. n/t  Judi Lynn   Apr-25-11 03:07 AM   #173 
  - No Crap.  dotymed   Apr-23-11 04:13 PM   #46 
  - Thanks for that.  Kurovski   Apr-23-11 05:03 PM   #69 
  - Excellent post, thank you! n/t  sabrina 1   Apr-23-11 07:14 PM   #114 
  - Kudos...  RedRoses323   Apr-24-11 06:24 AM   #133 
  - W was Elected and Re-elected  WVRICK13   Apr-24-11 06:00 AM   #132 
  - Actually, he is NOT either a totalitarian NOR a dictator. He is an elected, democratic President  L. Coyote   Apr-23-11 01:58 PM   #17 
  - In today's climate that's war talk  cprise   Apr-23-11 01:58 PM   #18 
  - The fact that he now rules by decree is a fact  FLPanhandle   Apr-23-11 02:40 PM   #24 
     - The decree power you are talking about was granted to him  sabrina 1   Apr-23-11 02:53 PM   #28 
     - Not he's not only viewed that way because of media  FLPanhandle   Apr-23-11 02:58 PM   #33 
     - If you are reading multiple sources, why are posting  sabrina 1   Apr-23-11 03:12 PM   #35 
     - So he is not ruling by decree?  FLPanhandle   Apr-23-11 05:03 PM   #68 
        - decree power given to him by the legislature  reggie the dog   Apr-23-11 06:18 PM   #103 
           - Decree powers from Dec 2010 to July 2012 (18 months) by a legislature ending its term in Jan 2011 nt  spanza   Apr-23-11 06:23 PM   #106 
              - Clear, verifiable facts. Thanks!  ChangoLoa   Apr-24-11 07:17 AM   #136 
     - Yet you won't post your "sources". Why? n/t  bitchkitty   Apr-23-11 05:20 PM   #80 
     - Depends on which "news" network you watch  desertrat777   Apr-23-11 03:34 PM   #37 
     - Remember when America had  dotymed   Apr-23-11 06:01 PM   #92 
     - Thank you Sabrina  dotymed   Apr-23-11 05:13 PM   #76 
     - limit to specific areas, time limited, and entirely normal and  Warren Stupidity   Apr-23-11 03:00 PM   #34 
     - the legislature of venezuela voted to give him that power  reggie the dog   Apr-23-11 03:41 PM   #40 
     - It's clear that FLPanhandle is flaming, but just to the set the record straight...  Peace Patriot   Apr-23-11 04:24 PM   #49 
     - Excellent post. You should turn it into on OP as there is so  sabrina 1   Apr-23-11 07:27 PM   #115 
     - Thank you , PP. As always a wonderful, well reasoned post. :)nt  amyrose2712   Apr-24-11 06:44 AM   #134 
     - How to pull a rabbit from a hat  ChangoLoa   Apr-24-11 08:59 AM   #140 
     - Congress doesn't enact laws that only last to the end of their term. That is a ridiculous argument.  Peace Patriot   Apr-24-11 12:06 PM   #152 
     - Right. Who the hell cares about the people's vote?!  spanza   Apr-24-11 09:13 AM   #141 
     - A limited-term power that was granted democratically  cprise   Apr-23-11 04:24 PM   #50 
     - I guess it is OK for you to build massive strawmen using your own projection  liberation   Apr-23-11 04:59 PM   #66 
     - So does Obama. Ever heard of an executive order?  eridani   Apr-24-11 02:01 AM   #125 
  - The kind of dictator who wins fair elections and governs at the will of the people?  harmonicon   Apr-23-11 01:59 PM   #19 
  - Chavez tends to be polarizing  FLPanhandle   Apr-23-11 02:50 PM   #27 
     - "I try to call the good and bad as it happens."  Warren Stupidity   Apr-23-11 02:58 PM   #32 
     - My God,  dotymed   Apr-23-11 06:13 PM   #98 
  - He was elected in 2006 with 63% of the vote.  olegramps   Apr-23-11 04:52 PM   #62 
  - Try watching a little less TV.  harun   Apr-23-11 05:05 PM   #71 
  - Don't watch any TV  FLPanhandle   Apr-23-11 05:08 PM   #75 
  - ... but at least he isn't killing the notion of language itself, as your comment does.  JackRiddler   Apr-23-11 06:00 PM   #91 
  - I've always though rather better of the non-totalitarian "dictators", haven't you? n/t  Judi Lynn   Apr-25-11 04:27 AM   #180 
  - Exxon to spend excess profits on CEO millions, record profits, etc.  L. Coyote   Apr-23-11 01:06 PM   #7 
  - good for him.  naaman fletcher   Apr-23-11 01:13 PM   #8 
  - What an evil doer.  Solly Mack   Apr-23-11 01:30 PM   #11 
  - I truly admire Chavez. The US government and media have tried  MasonJar   Apr-23-11 01:33 PM   #13 
  - Good!! nt  and-justice-for-all   Apr-23-11 01:42 PM   #14 
  - We need to start a war with them.......  joanbarnes   Apr-23-11 01:43 PM   #15 
  - The US will get around to this. Right now it's busy in the ME & Africa.  mysterysoup   Apr-23-11 02:00 PM   #20 
     - They view natural resources everywhere as belonging to the US multinationals.  Judi Lynn   Apr-25-11 04:35 AM   #181 
  - Dammit! That's a Fuck You right in our face!  lunatica   Apr-23-11 02:04 PM   #21 
  - K&R n/t  bobthedrummer   Apr-23-11 02:10 PM   #22 
  - He has been... is this new news?  DCKit   Apr-23-11 02:20 PM   #23 
  - Some of the numbers are new. From the O.P.:  Judi Lynn   Apr-25-11 04:38 AM   #182 
  - Must. Invade. Now.  Warren Stupidity   Apr-23-11 02:55 PM   #29 
  - LOL!  Zorra   Apr-23-11 04:52 PM   #63 
     - I just saw what the country's oil profit was when Greg Palast wrote about it in 2004. Very ugly!  Judi Lynn   Apr-25-11 04:57 AM   #183 
  - This is not totally new for that country is it? Isn't that why they nationalized  jwirr   Apr-23-11 03:17 PM   #36 
  - Wow what a great idea - using the resources to help THE PEOPLE instead of a just a few rich assholes  slay   Apr-23-11 03:43 PM   #41 
  - This is an outrage.  Cal Carpenter   Apr-23-11 03:46 PM   #42 
  - k&r  Starry Messenger   Apr-23-11 04:08 PM   #45 
  - What? No! They are supposed to spend it on more war!!  AllyCat   Apr-23-11 04:16 PM   #47 
  - Recommend +  The abyss   Apr-23-11 04:26 PM   #51 
  - Thank you, The abyss.  Judi Lynn   Apr-25-11 05:12 AM   #186 
  - Hmmm  mountainlion55   Apr-23-11 04:33 PM   #54 
  - Like Native Americans and casino income.  Beartracks   Apr-23-11 04:33 PM   #55 
  - My cousin takes her 30k from the tribe's casino and gives it directly to tribes  Lorien   Apr-23-11 06:09 PM   #95 
  - That's not how it's done in the US  liberal N proud   Apr-23-11 04:41 PM   #57 
  - That's not how it's done in the US  liberal N proud   Apr-23-11 04:41 PM   #58 
  - Good.  silverweb   Apr-23-11 04:51 PM   #61 
  - The U.S. is light years behind Venezuela in terms of policy.  harun   Apr-23-11 05:05 PM   #70 
  - What a sociopath!  athenasatanjesus   Apr-23-11 05:06 PM   #72 
  - I think I may move to Venezuela. Seems like I could give my family a better life there. NT  Devil_Fish   Apr-23-11 05:24 PM   #81 
  - K&R  me b zola   Apr-23-11 05:27 PM   #82 
  - Good. Now maybe Chavez can send some of that money to his good buddy Gaddafi. n/t  totodeinhere   Apr-23-11 05:34 PM   #85 
  - fuck it - if he wants to, who are we to criticize?  harmonicon   Apr-23-11 06:22 PM   #105 
  - Do you represent someone else? nt  spanza   Apr-23-11 06:24 PM   #108 
     - represent? nt  harmonicon   Apr-23-11 06:25 PM   #109 
  - You mean like the $850m the US gave Quadaffi a month before the rebellion? n/t  Mnemosyne   Apr-23-11 07:12 PM   #113 
  - Oh, snap....  liberation   Apr-23-11 08:45 PM   #119 
  - See reply #154. n/t  totodeinhere   Apr-24-11 01:53 PM   #155 
  - You're thinking of the US sending money to Qaddafi.  sabrina 1   Apr-24-11 12:11 AM   #121 
     - We made an agreement with Qaddafi in exchange for his giving up his weapons program and  totodeinhere   Apr-24-11 01:52 PM   #154 
        - We were sending him weapons right up to  sabrina 1   Apr-24-11 03:54 PM   #159 
           - For one thing, I am speaking for myself, not the US government. The fact that the US  totodeinhere   Apr-24-11 05:23 PM   #161 
  - Despite Chavez' shortcomings (and there are many)  Taverner   Apr-23-11 05:53 PM   #89 
  - Gotta start early to buy the 2012 elections.  joshcryer   Apr-23-11 06:14 PM   #99 
  - Right-wingers have accused leftists of "buying votes" from the poor for decades upon decades.  Judi Lynn   Apr-25-11 05:10 AM   #184 
  - Chavez, right now, is SO lucky there's a Democrat in the White House  jmowreader   Apr-23-11 06:16 PM   #100 
  - reading is your friend (nt)  harmonicon   Apr-23-11 06:24 PM   #107 
  - Oh, the humanity!  freshwest   Apr-23-11 06:16 PM   #102 
  - K&R and Many Thanks !  Overseas   Apr-23-11 06:41 PM   #111 
  - Thank you, Overseas.  Judi Lynn   Apr-25-11 05:11 AM   #185 
  - if only  Nossida   Apr-23-11 06:41 PM   #112 
  - Welcome to D.U., Nossida.  Judi Lynn   Apr-25-11 05:14 AM   #187 
  - Venezuela to Use Oil Revenues in Socio-Economic Investments  Judi Lynn   Apr-23-11 08:24 PM   #116 
  - Oh, the Horror!  ProudDad   Apr-24-11 12:12 AM   #122 
  - Viva Chavez  classysassy   Apr-24-11 02:30 AM   #128 
  - Your racialist view is an indication of your ignorance  ChangoLoa   Apr-24-11 08:31 AM   #138 
     - K&R  COLGATE4   Apr-24-11 10:01 AM   #145 
     - You don't think race plays a role in westerner's views of Latin American leaders?  harmonicon   Apr-24-11 10:10 AM   #146 
     - Yes, in westerner's views. nt  ChangoLoa   Apr-24-11 07:58 PM   #163 
     - Your reference to the poster as ignorant is unfounded.  Judi Lynn   Apr-24-11 10:12 PM   #169 
     - Unfornately DU'ers have known about Venezuela's racism far longer than you've posted here.  Judi Lynn   Apr-24-11 10:19 PM   #170 
        - Wow! You got it, we must be a bunch of self-hating brown people...  ChangoLoa   Apr-26-11 06:42 AM   #199 
  - That evil dictator!  irislake   Apr-24-11 05:53 AM   #131 
  - Another "Chavez promises" thread quickly drifting to "Chavez the dictator"  ChangoLoa   Apr-24-11 07:11 AM   #135 
  - Typical red-baiting -  TBF   Apr-24-11 10:33 AM   #149 
  - There's a small group of these people who are driven to offer their opinions  Judi Lynn   Apr-25-11 04:14 AM   #176 
  - Perhaps if we used "programmes" and used it like they misuse reform we have chance of keeping them.  kickysnana   Apr-24-11 08:48 AM   #139 
  - This thread is a near perfect example of why I don't hang out here much anymore.  Mika   Apr-27-11 12:38 PM   #202 

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