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Reply #201: Do you not realize how massively different these things are in scale? [View All]

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harmonicon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-27-11 01:49 AM
Response to Reply #200
201. Do you not realize how massively different these things are in scale?
Cuba is one small-ish island with a population of about 11 million with a largely uniform culture (despite the people coming from numerous historical backgrounds), where as the USSR was a massive multi-continent empire made up of many different regions and countries brought together over decades (sometimes through illegal occupation, as in the case of the Baltic states). Far more than a representation of the failure of socialism, the failure of the USSR is one of many historical examples of the failure of empire, and in that sense, is far more relevant to the US than it is to Cuba (hint: it's not Cuba which is now trying to occupy and pacify Afghanistan for economic and political/strategic reasons). ... but this is beside the point, and off topic.

You are cherry picking your example ballots. You mention that in some (really very few) ballots in the US, there are sometimes runoffs, but you choose to present the ballot one level down from that to compare to a Cuban ballot which has also been narrowed to a final version by means of earlier votes and selection procedures (and, yes, the US and many other countries have numerous rules, laws, and hurdles before someone can be on a ballot).

If your contention really is that more choices at a single point in time = more freedom/democracy, why do you not then argue that Australia is a democracy and the US is not, if you are willing to use that reasoning to say that the US is but Cuba is not? Furthermore, Cuba has a lower voting age. Does this mean they have more democracy? Is democracy being denied in the US and Australia because of the difference in the eligible voting age, or is it simply yet another example of different countries having different cultures, customs, and laws?

To say that a certain percentage of the Cuban population is "exiled" is purposefully loaded speech. Sure, a hell of a lot of the upper crust got the fuck out when they learned that their free criminal ride was over. In the US we simply let them move their assets to tax havens and continue to swindle the rest of the populace. More importantly, with Cuba you are dealing with a small island nation. Do you know what the percentage of the populations of New Zealand and Ireland living overseas is? It's high, and neither of those countries have had to suffer the misfortune of the most powerful empire on earth persecuting them for the original sin of being born somewhere run by a government which kicked that empire out and told it to fuck itself.

However, thinking about this, I don't think I'm going to be able to convince you, despite all of the facts that can be presented. By bringing up what you imagine to be the "failure" of socialism, I'm guessing that what really bothers you is that Cuba is a communist country, and you simply can't deal with the fact that there is a prosperous, free, democratic country which has chosen communism as their best path forward in life. If you want to argue about socialism and communism, do it somewhere else. It is entirely unrelated to the case that I've been trying to make.
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