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Reply #65: The way to save lives is to get out. There is no military solution. [View All]

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brg5001 Donating Member (240 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-21-07 01:28 PM
Response to Reply #64
65. The way to save lives is to get out. There is no military solution.
Edited on Sun Jan-21-07 01:38 PM by brg5001
Hillary was NOT fooled. She chose to believe the lies because it was expedient to do so. Cindy Sheehan never excused Hillary and neither will I.

By the way, you mention that ideolgoues don't listen...but are YOU listening? I'm glad that I haven't stopped listening. I previously supported Edwards until I learned that he followed the herd on the war instead of seeking out the truth. Are you willing to admit the truth about Hillary? Or is it easier to tar me as an "ideologue" and excuse Hillary for talking out of her neck?

It's not fair to call anyone an ideologue for pointing out the TRUTH and the FACTS about Hillary's support for this war. The way to save lives has been made very clear -- by the experts Bushco fired, by the strategists Buscho ignored, and by the Iraq Study Group that Buscho dismissed. It's to get OUT and stop trying to play World Cop for a nation (Iraq) that is not a nation at all, and which is the center of a regional conflict in which every move we make kills thousands more. Our presence is the problem. That's not an ideology, it's a fact and if Hillary intentionally refuses to recognize it then she doesn't deserve the progressive vote or anyone else's vote.

Iraq is not a single issue -- it's the most important issue because it has bearing on everything else that progressives hope to accomplish toward building a better America and a better world.

Hillary's supporters' argument is essentially this: Because lots of people were lied to by Bush, let's vote for someone else who believed those lies. The decision to believe those lies was intentional...the truth was out there but it was easier to go along with the crowd, especially when making cold, calculated moves toward the approval of the increasingly marginal "Christian Right". I'm on DU because as Steven Colbert put it, "reality has a liberal bias", and I'm deeply suspicious of anyone trying to say that my worldview is just an ideology that rejects facts and embraces emotion. That's nonsense. When the facts don't support an argument, then it's the argument that should be changed. Hillary refuses to take responsibility for her embrace of Bushco and she's attempting to have it both ways. Cindy is just the messenger. Sorry that the news is bad for your candidate.
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  -'HILLARY for PRESIDENT?' CINDY SHEEHAN Jcrowley  Jan-20-07 09:51 PM   #0 
  - You go girl!  roamer65   Jan-20-07 09:59 PM   #1 
  - I agree.  Hardrada   Jan-20-07 10:00 PM   #2 
  - Cindy as right on target as ever. Bravo!  illinoisprogressive   Jan-20-07 10:03 PM   #3 
  - Here here!  ShortnFiery   Jan-20-07 10:03 PM   #4 
  - Remember this?  Jcrowley   Jan-20-07 10:09 PM   #6 
     - How many of our Congress people are invested in the Military Industrial Complex?  ShortnFiery   Jan-20-07 10:17 PM   #11 
     - I learned about war being big business when we lived near DC.  phylny   Jan-21-07 07:17 PM   #77 
     - Yep  LibFromWV   Jan-21-07 08:35 AM   #42 
  - Continuing to speak truth to power  notsodumbhillbilly   Jan-20-07 10:06 PM   #5 
  - I agree with Cindy  pennylane100   Jan-20-07 10:11 PM   #7 
  - I think that Hillary Clinton should be given a close look. She may  MasonJar   Jan-20-07 10:14 PM   #8 
  - Nancy and Hillary going head to head.  aquart   Jan-20-07 11:18 PM   #20 
  - Cindy calling Hill and Bill "carpetbaggers" is a wee bit pedestrian.  oasis   Jan-20-07 10:15 PM   #9 
  - Americans are not carpetbaggers in their own country.  aquart   Jan-20-07 11:19 PM   #21 
  - I appreciate what Cindy has done for the anti-war movement, but I  oasis   Jan-20-07 11:28 PM   #22 
     - But she can't rest.  aquart   Jan-21-07 12:05 AM   #27 
     - 100% correct n/t  malaise   Jan-21-07 04:36 AM   #37 
     - As Neil Young once sang, "It's better to burn out than it is to rust"  derby378   Jan-21-07 08:42 AM   #44 
     - She still has a couple more years before she'll be able to do that with any success.  kdpeters   Jan-21-07 09:08 PM   #87 
  - Agreed. This "carpetbagger" meme is used too often.  Canuckistanian   Jan-21-07 08:53 PM   #84 
  - I can't vote for Hillary if she's not for detaching the milindus people from the Treasury ASAP.  Peake   Jan-20-07 10:15 PM   #10 
  - Well then, Hillary has a lot of making up to do..  Tellurian   Jan-20-07 10:17 PM   #12 
  - Cindy is becoming a whack-job, divorced from political realities.  David Dunham   Jan-20-07 10:30 PM   #13 
  - Cindy's  Mz Pip   Jan-20-07 10:36 PM   #14 
  - Hillary  Jcrowley   Jan-20-07 11:03 PM   #18 
  - Could you  Jcrowley   Jan-20-07 10:40 PM   #16 
  - isn't cindy a green party voter? n/t  bluedog   Jan-21-07 09:34 AM   #49 
  - That would be a new one. I've heard Dem, I've Repub,  LittleClarkie   Jan-21-07 08:44 PM   #81 
  - Cindy is not wacky. Her cause is peace. Viva, Cindy!  The Wielding Truth   Jan-21-07 08:35 PM   #79 
  - You live in luxury divorced from wartime realities. That's her journey. Politics is yours..  kdpeters   Jan-21-07 08:59 PM   #85 
  - K&R  bonito   Jan-20-07 10:38 PM   #15 
  - K/R  fooj   Jan-20-07 10:46 PM   #17 
  - Will Hillary's war on Iran be bloodier than Bush's war on Iraq?  Tom Joad   Jan-20-07 11:16 PM   #19 
  - Who provided you with information that Hill is pursuing a war with Iran?  oasis   Jan-21-07 11:08 AM   #54 
     - It doesn't hurt  obnoxiousdrunk   Jan-22-07 01:55 PM   #103 
  - thank you....  unkachuck   Jan-20-07 11:28 PM   #23 
  - I will support Dennis Again  OutNow   Jan-20-07 11:48 PM   #24 
  - Cindy pulls Hillary's covers expertly and accurately.  Tierra_y_Libertad   Jan-20-07 11:53 PM   #25 
  - Cindy has a knack for saying outright what most of us are reluctant to say.  sfexpat2000   Jan-21-07 12:01 AM   #26 
  - kicked  CrazyOrangeCat   Jan-21-07 12:10 AM   #28 
  - Deleted message  Name removed   Jan-21-07 12:15 AM   #29 
  - funny  LibFromWV   Jan-21-07 08:36 AM   #43 
  - Lieberman has transformed himself into a GOP Trojan Horse  derby378   Jan-21-07 08:48 AM   #45 
  - Gotta love it.  Buzz Clik   Jan-21-07 09:31 AM   #47 
  - Better get the shackles  seasonedblue   Jan-21-07 09:38 AM   #50 
  - Cindy speaks the truth. Does not get simpler than that.  Neshanic   Jan-21-07 01:05 AM   #30 
  - Yes but Americans can't handle the truth  Imagevision   Jan-21-07 01:27 AM   #31 
  - Thanks for posting this..  kimsterdemster   Jan-21-07 01:44 AM   #32 
  - the presidency is the Democrats' to lose in 2008 . . . nominating Hillary might just do it . . .n/t  OneBlueSky   Jan-21-07 03:04 AM   #33 
  - I think you're right....asking repubs to vote for Hillary is like asking us to vote for Laura  Just-plain-Kathy   Jan-21-07 09:04 PM   #86 
  - I would love a woman President, but Hillary is not the one for me or this country...  Pachamama   Jan-21-07 03:34 AM   #34 
  - Amen Pachamama!  Swamp Rat   Jan-21-07 09:18 PM   #89 
  - The only JCrowley post I have ever disagreed with. It's not worth posting.  wiley   Jan-21-07 04:04 AM   #35 
  - You seem to think it's Cindy's job to promote Democratic politicians  Leopolds Ghost   Jan-21-07 07:01 AM   #39 
  - Bravo Cindy! Bravo!!  VenusRising   Jan-21-07 04:06 AM   #36 
  - To be blunt.......  BooScout   Jan-21-07 04:53 AM   #38 
  - That is the Republican position  Leopolds Ghost   Jan-21-07 07:04 AM   #40 
  - I for one, am not blaming Hillary for the War...  Tellurian   Jan-21-07 08:30 AM   #41 
  - I agree with you. Not really on the "volunteer" part, because I spent  Miss Chybil   Jan-21-07 09:29 AM   #46 
  - Just to clarify a few points..  Tellurian   Jan-21-07 09:38 AM   #51 
     - Points well clarified!  Miss Chybil   Jan-21-07 09:45 AM   #52 
     - nothing to forgive, Miss Chybil..  Tellurian   Jan-21-07 01:52 PM   #67 
     - you can't blame electronic voting machines for Reagan being elected twice  provis99   Jan-21-07 01:01 PM   #62 
        - no, that was the democrats fault..  Tellurian   Jan-21-07 01:51 PM   #66 
  - Excellent post.  Buzz Clik   Jan-21-07 09:33 AM   #48 
  - BooScout--thank you for this this post. As you say, it is blunt, but  gratefultobelib   Jan-21-07 10:40 AM   #53 
  - Which "Iraqi People" would we be abandoning?  brg5001   Jan-21-07 12:32 PM   #59 
  - Ms. Sheehan is correct in her accessment of Mrs. Clinton, regarding her hawkishness  nealmhughes   Jan-21-07 11:44 AM   #55 
  - Weasel words from Hillary on possibly the most important issue of our lifetime  brg5001   Jan-21-07 11:53 AM   #56 
  - Hillary is a triangulator just like Bill  provis99   Jan-21-07 01:04 PM   #63 
  - this is exactly why ideologists on both sides make idiots of themselves  Hamlette   Jan-21-07 12:05 PM   #57 
  - This is not about ideology: It's about leadership and judgement  brg5001   Jan-21-07 12:20 PM   #58 
  - so all people who supported this war at one time or another are  Hamlette   Jan-21-07 01:16 PM   #64 
     - The way to save lives is to get out. There is no military solution.  brg5001   Jan-21-07 01:28 PM   #65 
     - you said:  Hamlette   Jan-21-07 02:38 PM   #68 
     - YES. All the people who supported this war at one time or another  mistertrickster   Jan-21-07 05:45 PM   #75 
     - Hillary wasn't fooled at all  Jcrowley   Jan-21-07 07:41 PM   #78 
        - I totally agree. She's the epitome of "Republicrat" we need to root out  mistertrickster   Jan-22-07 12:18 AM   #94 
        - Nail hit on head, JCrowley EOM  brg5001   Jan-22-07 10:08 AM   #100 
  - And Hillary isn't backing Bush now. Did Cindy not hear about that?  LittleClarkie   Jan-21-07 08:47 PM   #83 
     - In what way?  Jcrowley   Jan-21-07 09:23 PM   #90 
        - She's recently said she can't support the surge  LittleClarkie   Jan-22-07 01:54 AM   #95 
  - Yeeeeeeeehawllllllllllllll, let the games commence  specimenfred1984   Jan-21-07 12:36 PM   #60 
  - Behind the talk of "hurting the party" is a subtle pro-war stance  brg5001   Jan-21-07 04:21 PM   #71 
     - Hilarious  Madspirit   Jan-21-07 07:15 PM   #76 
        - I didn't call her a Republican, I just don't think her behavior is defensible  brg5001   Jan-22-07 09:20 AM   #96 
           - I didn't say...  Madspirit   Jan-22-07 01:31 PM   #101 
  - Neocons feel confident that Hilary couldn't win the general...  Mr_Jefferson_24   Jan-21-07 12:58 PM   #61 
  - So Cindy, if Hillary get the nomination, will you vote for her? Or will you support the repukes?  Beaverhausen   Jan-21-07 02:43 PM   #69 
  - You are correct, sir. BUT Hillary did vote to give the pResident the authority  mistertrickster   Jan-21-07 05:33 PM   #74 
  - "don't want their sons to  zidzi   Jan-21-07 02:44 PM   #70 
  - Damn right! Hillary didn't have the guts to fight the man who STOLE the  mistertrickster   Jan-21-07 05:29 PM   #72 
  - K & R - saved.  RiverStone   Jan-21-07 05:33 PM   #73 
  - Right on, Cindy!!! I'm with you! n/t  freefall   Jan-21-07 08:37 PM   #80 
  - Have to agree with Cindy on this one.  Canuckistanian   Jan-21-07 08:47 PM   #82 
  - right on cindy are right on just about everything you  ooglymoogly   Jan-21-07 09:11 PM   #88 
  - Cindy is RIGHT!  proud2Blib   Jan-21-07 09:40 PM   #91 
  - 1) You know if Hillary gets the nomination...  dsharp88   Jan-21-07 09:46 PM   #92 
  - Welcome to DU, Dsharp88.  oasis   Jan-21-07 09:57 PM   #93 
  - She summed up my biggest gripe about Hillary. I will never vote for her.  Chimichurri   Jan-22-07 09:34 AM   #97 
  - Here is my problem with Cindy: Her opinion means no more than mine  theboss   Jan-22-07 09:44 AM   #98 
  - Thank God Cindy is shouting. If your son had died for rich white men to make more money  shance   Jan-22-07 01:35 PM   #102 
  - Well, her opinions re: the war are one thing  LittleClarkie   Jan-22-07 04:16 PM   #106 
  - some of these candidates are just worried about their  alyce douglas   Jan-22-07 09:47 AM   #99 
  - Keep it up, Cindy!  paulk   Jan-22-07 02:10 PM   #104 
  - No Draft  Madspirit   Jan-22-07 04:13 PM   #105 

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