Reply #181: Possibly ....

[defendandprotect]

you are working towards a Libertarian argument against all government?


Interesting points
and it is even more interesting that you stopped right before your ideas merged with the other sides.

I got tired . . . and thought you'd be worn out, as well!


They to believe in the 'elites,' but they actually take it one step further than you just did. If the main drive of these elites is 'control,' then they must use the ONLY entity that can wield such power over the people: government.

Ok -- let's take this apart a bit --

Are you saying there are no "elites" -- no olligarchy -- TPB?

And you're starting to sound a little rw Libertarian here as opposed to lw Libertarian --

do you consider a people's government the enemy?

First, one has to understand the obsessions of patriarchy -- and that organized patriarchal

religion is the creation of patriarchy. Because you can't declare yourself "superior," you

need a "god" to do it for you.

But the obsessions are completely about control -- in fact control over the majority gender --

females. Look at what Mary Shelley shows you in "Frankestein" about the male desire to create

life which many trace to patriarchy's war on nature which has been so unkind as to make the

male much less necessary in creating life than the female.

I've never gotten around to putting very much about capitalism into print here -- but it was

invented by the Vatican when Feudalism became insufficient to run their Papal States.

It is not intended to benefit the many - it is intended to move wealth and natural resources

into the hands of the few.

But coming back to control -- as we can see today and as we saw in the Reagan years --

bankrupting the Treasury and creating Recession and now new bailouts for capitalists --

again puts the right wing in charge of "austerity" programs which fall not on the MIC or

fat cats but on our safety nets --

Bankrupting the Treasuring -- forcing citizens or nations into compliance with arbitrary

corporate rules from banks -- even international banks and banking structures -- IMF, etal --

has long been recognized as a way to destroy democracy!

Further, simply controlling government -- i.e., buying out our government by buying out our

elected officials -- is quite powerful. Consider what Monsanto has done to the FDA!

But, privatizing our military -- and having "off the shelf" military and "black bag" jobs

at your beck and call is another powerful way to disrupt democracy. And, not only our own

effort to create a democracy -- but to disrupt nations all over the planet. Afghanistan,

Iran, Iraq which we've been bombing now for 30 years -- Korea, Pakistan.

As Chomsky once outlined for us -- government is like a typewriter -- it depends upon who

is doing the writing and what comes out of it!

If you see any need for control over corruption and criminality which might go beyond your

own arming of yourself to settle your affairs, then obviously you need government.

Keep in mind that FDR also used government and its power to make very positive changes for

the nation and the public. Keep in mind there is a distinct difference between a "people's"

government and a government usurped and co-opted and bought out by corporations.

A little difficult to cover all of the points in one blow -- but the right wing Kock/T-baggers

are mightily confused about what socialism is -- and that's purposeful because they've been

directed to think of socialism as "Nazism" -- or "Russian Communism " -- both of which were

dictatorships -- totalitarian governments. Infact, J. Edgar Hoover ALWYS referred to USSR in

that way -- "totalitarian communusm."

Again -- the Koch/T-baggers are financed by the oil industry and run out of a PR firm.

They are directed to attack, not to listen to discussion nor debate.

The original NAZI party in Germany was, of course, a truly socialist movement -- and socialism

is still respected all over the world. The NAZI party supported women's right, reproductive

freedom/abortion -- were involved in health issues and preventive care -- and Germany at that

time was noted for advancement and freedom of intellect. AFTER Hitler took over the NAZI party

everything was reversed. Same with "totalitarian communism" sometimes also called socialism.

These were right wing dictaroships having nothing to do with socialism.


Don't know if we're making any headway in the discussion -- but respond again when you feel

like it --


:)