beam me up scottie
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Sun Nov-21-10 10:52 PM
Response to Original message |
| 129. "To a man whose mind is free there is something even more intolerable in the sufferings of animals |
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In those hours when he was weak with suffering, torn alive away from life, devoid of human egoism, he saw the victims of men, the field of battle in which man triumphed in the bloody slaughter of all other creatures: and his heart was filled with pity and horror. Even in the days when he had been happy he had always loved the beasts: he had never been able to bear cruelty towards them: he had always had a detestation of sport, which he had never dared to express for fear of ridicule: but his feeling of repulsion had been the secret cause of the apparently inexplicable feeling of dislike he had had for certain men: he had never been able to admit to his friendship a man who could kill an animal for pleasure. It was not sentimentality: no one knew better than he that life is based on suffering and infinite cruelty: no man can live without making others suffer. It is no use closing our eyes and fobbing ourselves off with words. It is no use either coming to the conclusion that we must renounce life and sniveling like children. No. We must kill to live, if, at the time, there is no other means of living. But the man who kills for the sake of killing is a miscreant. An unconscious miscreant, I know. But, all the same, a miscreant. The continual endeavor of man should be to lessen the sum of suffering and cruelty: that is the first duty of humanity. *** "What have I done to you? Why do you hurt me?" He could not bear to see the most ordinary sights that he had seen hundreds of times —a calf crying in a wicker pen, with its big, protruding eyes, with their bluish whites and pink lids, and white lashes, its curly white tufts on its forehead, its purple snout, its knock-kneed legs: —a lamb being carried by a peasant with its four legs tied together, hanging head down, trying to hold its head up, moaning like a child, bleating and lolling its gray tongue: —fowls huddled together in a basket: —the distant squeals of a pig being bled to death: —a fish being cleaned on the kitchen-table. . . . The nameless tortures which men inflict on such innocent creatures made his heart ache. Grant animals a ray of reason, imagine what a frightful nightmare the world is to them: a dream of cold-blooded men, blind and deaf, cutting their throats, slitting them open, gutting them, cutting them into pieces, cooking them alive, sometimes laughing at them and their contortions as they writhe in agony. Is there anything more atrocious among the cannibals of Africa? To a man whose mind is free there is something even more intolerable in the sufferings of animals than in the sufferings of men. For with the latter it is at least admitted that suffering is evil and that the man who causes it is a criminal. But thousands of animals are uselessly butchered every day without a shadow of remorse. If any man were to refer to it, he would be thought ridiculous. —And that is the unpardonable crime. That alone is the justification of all that men may suffer. It cries vengeance upon God. If there exists a good God, then even the most humble of living things must be saved. If God is good only to the strong, if there is no justice for the weak and lowly, for the poor creatures who are offered up as a sacrifice to humanity, then there is no such thing as goodness, no such thing as justice. ~The Unpardonable Crime by Romain Rolland
Excerpted from Jean-Christophe. New York: Random House Modern Library, 1938, pp. 326-328 translated by Gilbert Cannanhttp://www.animal-rights-library.com/texts-c/rolland01.... There is no such thing as justice for animals.
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| -Will Michael Vick ever be forgiven? |
Liberal_Stalwart71 |
Nov-21-10 06:32 PM |
#0 |
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I hope not. I hope he has a career-ending injury. Soon. |
de novo |
Nov-21-10 06:33 PM |
#1 |
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What you said. |
Systematic Chaos |
Nov-21-10 06:35 PM |
#2 |
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That would make my day. |
emilyg |
Nov-21-10 06:49 PM |
#19 |
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How progressive of you. |
Goblinmonger |
Nov-21-10 08:56 PM |
#65 |
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Not extreme harm, just enough so that he never makes another dollar for playing a game. |
de novo |
Nov-21-10 08:59 PM |
#66 |
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So do hunters. |
Goblinmonger |
Nov-21-10 09:10 PM |
#69 |
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You can't see the difference? |
de novo |
Nov-21-10 09:17 PM |
#70 |
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There are plenty that don't kill the animals they hunt quickly. |
Goblinmonger |
Nov-21-10 09:31 PM |
#82 |
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He is a sick fuck. He killed and maimed animals for money. |
de novo |
Nov-21-10 09:33 PM |
#85 |
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Now it's for money that is important. |
Goblinmonger |
Nov-21-10 09:38 PM |
#89 |
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haha. You are in the minority. Enjoy defending this waste. |
de novo |
Nov-21-10 09:39 PM |
#92 |
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haha. You committed a fallacy. |
Goblinmonger |
Nov-21-10 09:42 PM |
#97 |
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Oh yeah, and on of the activities is illegal. |
de novo |
Nov-21-10 09:19 PM |
#72 |
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And Vick paid the price society put on that illegal activity. n/t |
Goblinmonger |
Nov-21-10 09:30 PM |
#80 |
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He is still a sick son-of-a-bitch that I do not have to respect. Fuck him. |
de novo |
Nov-21-10 09:32 PM |
#83 |
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I don't give a shit if you respect him. |
Goblinmonger |
Nov-21-10 09:39 PM |
#91 |
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Have fun defending this fucking asshole. |
de novo |
Nov-21-10 09:40 PM |
#93 |
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I'm not defending him. |
Goblinmonger |
Nov-21-10 09:43 PM |
#98 |
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"As a progressive"....Right. |
de novo |
Nov-21-10 09:45 PM |
#101 |
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You're right...progressives hope for bodily harm to come to those |
Goblinmonger |
Nov-21-10 09:46 PM |
#104 |
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Welcome to the light. |
de novo |
Nov-21-10 09:47 PM |
#105 |
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Unrec. |
Codeine |
Nov-21-10 06:36 PM |
#3 |
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How the heck am I supposed to know this? Geez!!! |
Liberal_Stalwart71 |
Nov-21-10 06:36 PM |
#5 |
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.... |
tammywammy |
Nov-21-10 06:45 PM |
#16 |
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I obviously know how to use the Search button, but let's be serious... |
Liberal_Stalwart71 |
Nov-21-10 07:30 PM |
#44 |
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I rarely LOL but this one was good. |
Happyhippychick |
Nov-21-10 07:52 PM |
#56 |
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Top of the page, a search icon. Go to simple search, type in Michael |
Obamanaut |
Nov-21-10 06:58 PM |
#26 |
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Whatever. See my response above. You people are unnecessarily rude!! |
Liberal_Stalwart71 |
Nov-21-10 07:31 PM |
#46 |
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I don’t know why every one gets so upset over multiple postings |
left is right |
Nov-21-10 07:38 PM |
#52 |
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He's just the best darn fella in the whole world. |
Balbus |
Nov-21-10 06:36 PM |
#4 |
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Not by me. n/t |
muffin1 |
Nov-21-10 06:37 PM |
#6 |
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Not by me. Psycho fucker deserves to be torn apart by wild pit bulls. |
katandmoon |
Nov-21-10 06:37 PM |
#7 |
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+1. |
SammyWinstonJack |
Nov-21-10 08:51 PM |
#63 |
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It's not for me to forgive him. In his case, it's poor defenseless maimed, traumatized |
Catherina |
Nov-21-10 06:39 PM |
#8 |
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NO. there is no forgiveness for what he did. It's all hype. |
johnaries |
Nov-21-10 06:39 PM |
#9 |
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As long as he has made peace. |
demmiblue |
Nov-21-10 06:39 PM |
#10 |
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I wish more would worry about what he does to make amends |
hlthe2b |
Nov-21-10 06:40 PM |
#11 |
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Thanks for the thoughtful response. n/t |
Liberal_Stalwart71 |
Nov-21-10 06:44 PM |
#14 |
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I've sometimes wondered..... |
Ken Burch |
Nov-21-10 06:42 PM |
#12 |
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were the bum fighters killed when they no longer could fight? |
dsc |
Nov-21-10 06:45 PM |
#15 |
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It isn't enough that they were badly impaired street people made to severely injure each other |
Ken Burch |
Nov-21-10 06:58 PM |
#27 |
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I think they are about equal |
dsc |
Nov-21-10 07:06 PM |
#32 |
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I guess I don't see that what Vick did, given everything else that's happening |
Ken Burch |
Nov-21-10 07:27 PM |
#43 |
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Exactly! Thanks for the thoughtful response. n/t |
Liberal_Stalwart71 |
Nov-21-10 07:32 PM |
#47 |
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I would feel very different if Vick showed some sign of |
dsc |
Nov-21-10 07:33 PM |
#48 |
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Well, then, he's not worth wasting your indignation on. |
Ken Burch |
Nov-21-10 07:54 PM |
#57 |
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Those guys are fucking scum who should be beaten to death in the street. |
superduperfarleft |
Nov-21-10 09:04 PM |
#68 |
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If you're speaking of those who organize and produce the "Bum Fights" videos, I'm with you. |
Ken Burch |
Nov-21-10 09:44 PM |
#99 |
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I read an article a few weeks ago about one of the "bums" who survived |
superduperfarleft |
Nov-21-10 09:58 PM |
#111 |
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Unrec. |
City Lights |
Nov-21-10 06:43 PM |
#13 |
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he would have to try long and hard to redeem himself |
Skittles |
Nov-21-10 06:46 PM |
#17 |
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Why do these posts keep showing up on DU? |
Faygo Kid |
Nov-21-10 06:49 PM |
#18 |
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+1 nt |
Obamanaut |
Nov-21-10 07:17 PM |
#40 |
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Maybe because I wasn't aware of the other threads. Again, let's be honest... |
Liberal_Stalwart71 |
Nov-21-10 07:35 PM |
#49 |
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It's not like he worked for Goldman Sachs. |
Skink |
Nov-21-10 06:52 PM |
#20 |
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did he ask? and maybe we should ask these folks: |
CreekDog |
Nov-21-10 06:52 PM |
#21 |
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Thank you and they are the reasons that I still think he's a POS! |
tnlefty |
Nov-21-10 07:46 PM |
#55 |
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Even if his remorse is genuine, I don't think it will matter to those who are mad at him....... |
marmar |
Nov-21-10 06:53 PM |
#22 |
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Well fuck, so long as HE'S made peace with it. |
flvegan |
Nov-21-10 06:54 PM |
#23 |
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And THIS, ladies and gentlemen, |
Codeine |
Nov-21-10 06:55 PM |
#25 |
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+1. |
SammyWinstonJack |
Nov-21-10 08:54 PM |
#64 |
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Not by me...ever!! n/t |
michaz |
Nov-21-10 06:55 PM |
#24 |
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I hope never. He's sure no role model for youngsters. I personally wish him |
williesgirl |
Nov-21-10 07:00 PM |
#28 |
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Right after Ray Lewis |
alcibiades_mystery |
Nov-21-10 07:00 PM |
#29 |
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Ask the dogs. |
Catshrink |
Nov-21-10 07:02 PM |
#30 |
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Should he be forgiven simply because he's doing well? |
rocktivity |
Nov-21-10 07:05 PM |
#31 |
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That was not my intent!!! There was an interview with Costas this evening! |
Liberal_Stalwart71 |
Nov-21-10 07:37 PM |
#51 |
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Michael Vick doesn't need forgiveness, |
beam me up scottie |
Nov-21-10 07:07 PM |
#33 |
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I hope to hell not. Forgive him if you choose, he's a POS now and forever IMO. n/t |
tpsbmam |
Nov-21-10 07:07 PM |
#34 |
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Never!!!!!!!!!! There are some crimes that are deliberative, sick and too |
Peregrine Took |
Nov-21-10 07:12 PM |
#35 |
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no - fuck him |
Locrian |
Nov-21-10 07:13 PM |
#36 |
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Unrecommended. |
Quantess |
Nov-21-10 07:14 PM |
#37 |
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Mike Vick has been forgiven |
Alenne |
Nov-21-10 07:15 PM |
#38 |
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Seems like so many people on this thread are making it a top priority. |
Liberal_Stalwart71 |
Nov-21-10 07:39 PM |
#53 |
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Not by me. Nope. Never. He's just mean. nt |
Obamanaut |
Nov-21-10 07:15 PM |
#39 |
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NO!!!! |
Howler |
Nov-21-10 07:22 PM |
#41 |
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Not in this house. |
Greyhound |
Nov-21-10 07:22 PM |
#42 |
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I'm with you. |
tilsammans |
Nov-21-10 10:09 PM |
#121 |
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Forgiven and what? |
Amerigo Vespucci |
Nov-21-10 07:30 PM |
#45 |
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No. |
nonconformist |
Nov-21-10 07:36 PM |
#50 |
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It's sad, but Michael Vick is the new OJ. |
political_Dem |
Nov-21-10 07:40 PM |
#54 |
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Well it couldn't possibly be because he's black. Since elected Obama racism is gone from America! |
Sirveri |
Nov-21-10 08:10 PM |
#59 |
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It has nothing to do with him being black. |
Balbus |
Nov-21-10 08:27 PM |
#61 |
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OJ is in jail? I had no idea until now. But whatever. Thanks |
Catherina |
Nov-21-10 09:18 PM |
#71 |
  -
Yes, OJ is truly in jail. He was incarcerated last year. |
political_Dem |
Nov-21-10 09:59 PM |
#113 |
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I can't believe I missed that bit of news. Thanks again. n/t |
Catherina |
Nov-21-10 10:04 PM |
#116 |
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Spit it out. Why are you beating around the bush? |
de novo |
Nov-21-10 09:24 PM |
#74 |
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When thinking about the societal reaction to Michael Vick, I do think race is a part of it. |
political_Dem |
Nov-21-10 11:04 PM |
#130 |
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You just completey invalidated yourself with that ridiculousness. |
nonconformist |
Nov-22-10 12:07 AM |
#142 |
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If I were making this up, where's the outrage for these murderers? |
political_Dem |
Nov-22-10 02:39 AM |
#144 |
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Race has nothing to do with it. Not in this case. |
flvegan |
Nov-22-10 12:33 AM |
#143 |
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Yes it does. But not in the way you might think. |
political_Dem |
Nov-22-10 02:52 AM |
#146 |
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Robert Downey Jr? Why on earth would you compare him? |
nonconformist |
Nov-21-10 11:48 PM |
#141 |
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Forgive a murderer? |
sellitman |
Nov-21-10 08:03 PM |
#58 |
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------------------------ NO ------------------------------ |
ladywnch |
Nov-21-10 08:13 PM |
#60 |
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Humble? Made peace with what he did? Who twisted his arm and made he do what he did? |
SammyWinstonJack |
Nov-21-10 08:50 PM |
#62 |
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So one of my friends on Facebook talked about shooting a deer. |
Goblinmonger |
Nov-21-10 09:03 PM |
#67 |
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Yeah that's the same as deliberately torturing dozens upon dozens of innocent dogs. |
SammyWinstonJack |
Nov-21-10 09:25 PM |
#75 |
  -
entertainment = sport, yes? |
Goblinmonger |
Nov-21-10 09:33 PM |
#84 |
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Who the fuck eats dead dogs? |
de novo |
Nov-21-10 09:27 PM |
#77 |
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So if Vick had eaten the dogs, that would be better? |
Goblinmonger |
Nov-21-10 09:29 PM |
#79 |
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Your analogy fails, so hard. |
de novo |
Nov-21-10 09:31 PM |
#81 |
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Do hunters cause the painful death of animals? |
Goblinmonger |
Nov-21-10 09:34 PM |
#87 |
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What utility does fighting dogs provide? |
de novo |
Nov-21-10 09:38 PM |
#90 |
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What utility does hunting deer provide? |
Goblinmonger |
Nov-21-10 09:41 PM |
#94 |
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Goblinmonger *hearts* dog fighters/dog murderers. Enjoy! |
de novo |
Nov-21-10 09:42 PM |
#96 |
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Is that what it takes for you to feel good about yourself? |
Goblinmonger |
Nov-21-10 09:45 PM |
#100 |
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You made your bed! |
de novo |
Nov-21-10 09:46 PM |
#103 |
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I am warm and comfy in my bed. I have never said what Vick did was OK. |
Goblinmonger |
Nov-21-10 09:51 PM |
#106 |
  -
Oh, I sleep sound and warm, thanks! |
de novo |
Nov-21-10 09:55 PM |
#110 |
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I have no affinity for Vick. |
Goblinmonger |
Nov-21-10 09:58 PM |
#112 |
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I find it really curious, then, that you would go through such exercises. |
de novo |
Nov-21-10 10:09 PM |
#119 |
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Take a look above. Post 23. flvegan. He gets it. |
Goblinmonger |
Nov-21-10 09:54 PM |
#109 |
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If Vick had raised the dogs humanely, slaughtered them in a non-torturous fashion, and eaten them... |
JVS |
Nov-21-10 10:13 PM |
#124 |
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I'm not convinced you know all the crimes Vick committed |
Fleshdancer |
Nov-21-10 09:46 PM |
#102 |
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I'm trying to determine the line. |
Goblinmonger |
Nov-21-10 10:07 PM |
#117 |
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What did the dogs endure Goblinmonger? |
Fleshdancer |
Nov-22-10 10:54 PM |
#147 |
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No, that does not equate. False equivalency. |
Quantess |
Nov-21-10 09:54 PM |
#108 |
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So what is the level an animal needs to rise to before we care about them? |
Goblinmonger |
Nov-21-10 10:09 PM |
#120 |
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I didn't say any of that, and you know it. |
Quantess |
Nov-21-10 10:30 PM |
#126 |
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You and I agree on most everything, then. |
Goblinmonger |
Nov-21-10 10:33 PM |
#127 |
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That's cool. I usually stay out of threads like these. |
Quantess |
Nov-21-10 11:19 PM |
#134 |
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I think there is a difference of intention. Your friend was hoping for a clean kill. |
JVS |
Nov-21-10 10:09 PM |
#118 |
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That's a valid point. |
Goblinmonger |
Nov-21-10 10:11 PM |
#122 |
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Is forgiveness a necessity? I mean is forgiving Vick somehow a requisite for |
leeroysphitz |
Nov-21-10 09:22 PM |
#73 |
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WOW. The OP ignores my question. what a surprise. n/t |
leeroysphitz |
Nov-21-10 09:34 PM |
#86 |
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I wish DU were this bloodthirsty about white collar criminals |
rucky |
Nov-21-10 09:27 PM |
#76 |
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I am. It isn't mutually exclusive. |
de novo |
Nov-21-10 09:35 PM |
#88 |
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Yeah, DU totally loves the predator class. |
Occam Bandage |
Nov-21-10 10:02 PM |
#115 |
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As a dog-lover I don't think I can ever fully forgive him. |
Nye Bevan |
Nov-21-10 09:29 PM |
#78 |
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No, I haven't made peace with what he did... you're only humble when caught |
NotThisTime |
Nov-21-10 09:41 PM |
#95 |
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I wouldn't let my kid wear a Vick jersey |
Danmel |
Nov-21-10 09:51 PM |
#107 |
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Excellence in sport is not a good measure of morality. |
Occam Bandage |
Nov-21-10 10:01 PM |
#114 |
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He is a villain. It's time for him, you, and a lot of other fans to accept it. |
JVS |
Nov-21-10 10:11 PM |
#123 |
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Man! He is an AWESOME QB! |
outerSanctum |
Nov-21-10 10:13 PM |
#125 |
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Where have you been? He has been forgiven. |
tuckessee |
Nov-21-10 10:41 PM |
#128 |
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"To a man whose mind is free there is something even more intolerable in the sufferings of animals |
beam me up scottie |
Nov-21-10 10:52 PM |
#129 |
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No justice, just us. |
flvegan |
Nov-21-10 11:05 PM |
#131 |
  -
Yes, for a few, it is enough. |
beam me up scottie |
Nov-21-10 11:28 PM |
#136 |
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BUT |
crotchety |
Nov-21-10 11:07 PM |
#132 |
  -
I have seen dogs wag their tails while being abused. |
beam me up scottie |
Nov-21-10 11:21 PM |
#135 |
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Good Lord! Thank you! |
Biker13 |
Nov-24-10 09:43 PM |
#150 |
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You are more than welcome. |
beam me up scottie |
Nov-24-10 10:26 PM |
#153 |
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No. |
KittyLover |
Nov-21-10 11:11 PM |
#133 |
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Enough of this poor Michael Vick bullshit. |
Dappleganger |
Nov-21-10 11:29 PM |
#137 |
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Enough of this poor Michael Vick bullshit. |
Dappleganger |
Nov-21-10 11:29 PM |
#138 |
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I say we should put him in a cage full of rabid dogs... |
Lucian |
Nov-21-10 11:31 PM |
#139 |
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Not from me. |
Safetykitten |
Nov-21-10 11:44 PM |
#140 |
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Are you serious? |
proteus_lives |
Nov-22-10 02:47 AM |
#145 |
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lots of people riding their "high horse" against Vick |
SHRED |
Nov-24-10 08:55 PM |
#148 |
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Waa waa waa "poor Michael Vick" FUCK that SHIT |
Raine |
Nov-24-10 09:04 PM |
#149 |
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Oh, phew, as long as HE has made peace with it. |
Bluebear |
Nov-24-10 09:46 PM |
#151 |
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Michael Vick Killed Dogs. Personally. Brutally. Cruelly. |
NashVegas |
Nov-24-10 10:00 PM |
#152 |