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Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (1/22-2007 thru 12/14/2010) Donate to DU
Hannah Bell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-17-10 01:56 AM
Response to Original message
68. yes, i DID.
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  -Social democrats win Greek regional elections amid mass abstention (voting is mandatory in greece) Hannah Bell  Nov-17-10 12:12 AM   #0 
  - My, that was clever of voters.  EmilyKent   Nov-17-10 12:24 AM   #1 
  - it is when all the parties are enforcing austerity policies.  Hannah Bell   Nov-17-10 12:26 AM   #2 
     - I'm well aware of the situation in Greece.  EmilyKent   Nov-17-10 12:28 AM   #3 
     - why, in your opinion, was it "dumb"?  Hannah Bell   Nov-17-10 12:38 AM   #4 
     - Greece is broke.  EmilyKent   Nov-17-10 12:43 AM   #6 
        - lol. their representatives all support the same program, as you've just said.  Hannah Bell   Nov-17-10 01:00 AM   #7 
        - On the economy, yes.  EmilyKent   Nov-17-10 01:04 AM   #9 
           - as i said, there are no other issues when you're unemployed or unable to make  Hannah Bell   Nov-17-10 01:09 AM   #13 
              - Lots of Greeks are employed.  EmilyKent   Nov-17-10 01:12 AM   #15 
                 - they're not broke, as i've already explained here:  Hannah Bell   Nov-17-10 01:20 AM   #21 
                    - They are quite broke.  EmilyKent   Nov-17-10 01:26 AM   #23 
                    - you're quite wrong, they are not broke, and since you offer no counter-argument to  Hannah Bell   Nov-17-10 01:34 AM   #32 
                       - Believe in magic all you want, but they don't have enough  EmilyKent   Nov-17-10 01:36 AM   #34 
                          - the fact that you keep asserting it without evidence or logical argument doesn't  Hannah Bell   Nov-17-10 01:38 AM   #37 
                             - LOL it's on the front pages of the news.  EmilyKent   Nov-17-10 01:40 AM   #39 
                                - if the front page of "the news" says greece is broke, then they don't know what  Hannah Bell   Nov-17-10 01:44 AM   #43 
                                - Ahh everyone in the world is wrong, except you.  EmilyKent   Nov-17-10 01:44 AM   #45 
                                   - ah, straw man + personal attack.  Hannah Bell   Nov-17-10 01:45 AM   # 
                                   - Like you're doing?  EmilyKent   Nov-17-10 01:46 AM   #48 
                                   - no, what i'm doing is saying: you don't know what you're talking about.  Hannah Bell   Nov-17-10 01:48 AM   #52 
                                   - 'Honest discussion' meaning agreeing with you?  EmilyKent   Nov-17-10 01:51 AM   #58 
                                   - It's not everyone in the world. It's the neoliberals and their lapdog media. nt  laughingliberal   Nov-17-10 01:48 AM   #51 
                                - And we all know the news always tells the truth and never spins it the way the PTB wants. nt  laughingliberal   Nov-17-10 01:46 AM   #49 
                                   - More conspiracy theory.  EmilyKent   Nov-17-10 01:49 AM   #55 
                                      - I'm done. If you believe the media acts in the best interest of what people need to know...  laughingliberal   Nov-17-10 02:10 AM   #83 
                                         - I said nothing about the media.  EmilyKent   Nov-17-10 02:12 AM   #85 
                    - That's actually not a whole lot higher than it is here  KamaAina   Nov-17-10 11:47 AM   #164 
        - You think it went unnoticed  crikkett   Nov-17-10 08:53 AM   #149 
     - Europeans tend to take on a state of disbelief when social policies fail.  fishbulb703   Nov-17-10 12:40 AM   #5 
        - But it isn't the social policies that failed.  aquart   Nov-17-10 01:02 AM   #8 
           - Greece has no factories.  EmilyKent   Nov-17-10 01:08 AM   #11 
              - oh, bullshit.  Hannah Bell   Nov-17-10 01:11 AM   #14 
              - Oh. Well. That solves everything.  EmilyKent   Nov-17-10 01:13 AM   #16 
                 - you have no answer to the facts, do you? that's why you focus on the "bullshit" as though it were  Hannah Bell   Nov-17-10 01:19 AM   #20 
                    - The 'fact' is....Greece is broke.  EmilyKent   Nov-17-10 01:24 AM   #22 
                       - "broke" = no money. greece has money, income, assets.  Hannah Bell   Nov-17-10 01:28 AM   #25 
                          - Yes, but not enough to cover what they owe.  EmilyKent   Nov-17-10 01:29 AM   #28 
                             - i didn't realize loans had to be paid off in one payment. first i've heard about that.  Hannah Bell   Nov-17-10 01:37 AM   #35 
                                - Bills have to be paid off, and they all have different  EmilyKent   Nov-17-10 01:38 AM   #36 
                                   - link? evidence they "can't meet any of them"? you have some inside  Hannah Bell   Nov-17-10 01:39 AM   #38 
                                      - I thought you said you were aware of the situation?  EmilyKent   Nov-17-10 01:40 AM   #40 
                                         - so link me to where the financial news says the greeks can't meet ANY of their  Hannah Bell   Nov-17-10 01:45 AM   #46 
                                            - You're reporting Greeks aren't voting  EmilyKent   Nov-17-10 01:48 AM   #53 
                                               - Imposing austerity measures at the behest of the World Bank and IMF. The owners demand it.  laughingliberal   Nov-17-10 01:50 AM   #56 
                                               - People who are owed money always demand it.  EmilyKent   Nov-17-10 01:52 AM   #60 
                                               - They have the money. The tax cheats are robbing the country. nt  laughingliberal   Nov-17-10 01:58 AM   #70 
                                               - Ordinary middle class people.  EmilyKent   Nov-17-10 02:01 AM   #76 
                                               - are you selectively quoting from the article you say i didn't link? lol.  Hannah Bell   Nov-17-10 02:03 AM   #80 
                                               - Ordinary middle class people.  EmilyKent   Nov-17-10 02:06 AM   #81 
                                               - Yes. She is. nm  laughingliberal   Nov-17-10 02:12 AM   #86 
                                               - yes, but only loan sharks demand that you kill your children to pay it  Hannah Bell   Nov-17-10 01:58 AM   #71 
                                               - LOL I doubt the Greek govt said that.  EmilyKent   Nov-17-10 02:00 AM   #74 
              - Tourism and shipping don't make money?  aquart   Nov-17-10 01:15 AM   #17 
                 - Of course they do.  EmilyKent   Nov-17-10 01:27 AM   #24 
                    - they more than cover the bills. rich greeks are cheating on their taxes, massively.  Hannah Bell   Nov-17-10 01:29 AM   #27 
                       - Ahhh conspiracy theory.  EmilyKent   Nov-17-10 01:30 AM   #29 
                          - no, reported fact. but lol for pulling out the "conspiracy theory" defense  Hannah Bell   Nov-17-10 01:42 AM   #41 
                          - No it's not.  EmilyKent   Nov-17-10 01:43 AM   #42 
                             - i linked you to an article about rich greeks not paying their taxes.  Hannah Bell   Nov-17-10 01:47 AM   #50 
                             - No you didn't.  EmilyKent   Nov-17-10 01:48 AM   # 
                                - Well, here it is, again. NYT. nt  laughingliberal   Nov-17-10 01:56 AM   #67 
                                - yes, i DID.  Hannah Bell   Nov-17-10 01:56 AM   #68 
                                   - They aren't wealthy, they're middle class  EmilyKent   Nov-17-10 01:59 AM   #73 
                                      - Not the whole problem, no.  laughingliberal   Nov-17-10 02:07 AM   #82 
                                      - Yes, ordinary middle class.  EmilyKent   Nov-17-10 02:10 AM   #84 
                                         - Nope.  laughingliberal   Nov-17-10 02:19 AM   #89 
                                         - Yes, ordinary middle class people.  EmilyKent   Nov-17-10 02:21 AM   #92 
                                         - Yes. And what I posted is from the same article. The one you said wasn't there. nt  laughingliberal   Nov-17-10 02:24 AM   #95 
                                         - If you'd stop bouncing all over the place,  EmilyKent   Nov-17-10 02:26 AM   #97 
                                         - It also said the wealthy don;t pay but you seem to be invested in protecting them. nt  laughingliberal   Nov-17-10 02:31 AM   #102 
                                         - the poster never met a rich person he didn't love.  Hannah Bell   Nov-17-10 02:33 AM   #103 
                                         - No one was paying their taxes.  EmilyKent   Nov-17-10 02:42 AM   #108 
                                      - The rot starts at the top: Taxi drivers' cheating is a drop in the bucket compared to the big fish:  Hannah Bell   Nov-17-10 02:13 AM   #87 
                                         - Everyone should pay their taxes. Middle class too.  EmilyKent   Nov-17-10 02:15 AM   #88 
                                            - der spiegel has a vested interest in calling greece "broke".  Hannah Bell   Nov-17-10 02:20 AM   #90 
                                            - Everyone calls Greece 'broke'.  EmilyKent   Nov-17-10 02:22 AM   #93 
                                            - Oh. "Everyone." Fail. nt  laughingliberal   Nov-17-10 02:44 AM   #110 
                                            - Only posters here think otherwise.  EmilyKent   Nov-17-10 02:45 AM   #111 
                             - Lol. It's not a secret group. It's the same robber barons who are bringing everyone down. nt  laughingliberal   Nov-17-10 01:53 AM   #63 
                                - Oh THOSE evil doers.  EmilyKent   Nov-17-10 01:55 AM   #65 
                                   - Yes and thriving. We, for instance, have transferred somewhere between $5-23 trillion...  laughingliberal   Nov-17-10 02:00 AM   #75 
                                      - I doubt that.  EmilyKent   Nov-17-10 02:02 AM   #79 
                                      - Doubt it all you want. That's the estimate of the amount of the secret loans that have been...  laughingliberal   Nov-17-10 02:21 AM   #91 
                                         - A conspiracy I betcha.  EmilyKent   Nov-17-10 02:23 AM   #94 
                                            - No. Just plain old theft by the elite from the people. Here's a link about part of it:  laughingliberal   Nov-17-10 02:28 AM   #98 
                                            - This is about Greece. Not the US Federal Reserve  EmilyKent   Nov-17-10 02:29 AM   #100 
                                      - Here's where this part of the conversation started:  laughingliberal   Nov-17-10 02:36 AM   #104 
                                         - Maybe it did for you.  EmilyKent   Nov-17-10 02:41 AM   #107 
                          - No. Just the typical theft the owners have been perpetrating world wide. nt  laughingliberal   Nov-17-10 01:52 AM   #59 
                          - Ahhh a global conspiracy then!  EmilyKent   Nov-17-10 01:53 AM   #61 
                          - that's all you got. lame "conspiracy theorist" bullshit. cause you don't know  Hannah Bell   Nov-17-10 01:55 AM   #66 
                          - You were leaving, remember?  EmilyKent   Nov-17-10 01:57 AM   #69 
                             - i couldn't stand by while you continued your clueless lameness.  Hannah Bell   Nov-17-10 01:59 AM   #72 
                                - No, you continued it.  EmilyKent   Nov-17-10 02:02 AM   #78 
                          - No, global theft. Here's more about what they're doing here:  laughingliberal   Nov-17-10 02:40 AM   #105 
                             - They're all in on it!  EmilyKent   Nov-17-10 02:44 AM   #109 
                                - "Everyone" isn't going broke. The people at the top are getting all the money transferred to them.  laughingliberal   Nov-17-10 02:46 AM   #112 
                                   - Well the number of billionaires isn't rising dramatically.  EmilyKent   Nov-17-10 02:47 AM   #114 
                                      - uh huh nt  laughingliberal   Nov-17-10 02:51 AM   #115 
                                      - lol. just 27% in one year.  Hannah Bell   Nov-17-10 02:53 AM   #116 
                                         - 'reflects growing power of Asia'  EmilyKent   Nov-17-10 02:55 AM   #117 
                                            - You said the number of billionaires was flat, now you're complaining because they're asian?  Hannah Bell   Nov-17-10 02:58 AM   #119 
                                            - No, I said it wasn't rising dramatically.  EmilyKent   Nov-17-10 03:00 AM   #121 
                                            - no, we weren't talking about anything. you're having your private conversation,  Hannah Bell   Nov-17-10 03:02 AM   #123 
                                            - Well I'm certainly not having one with you.  EmilyKent   Nov-17-10 03:04 AM   #124 
                                            - Or a zombie conspiracy. nt  laughingliberal   Nov-17-10 09:53 AM   #153 
                          - WORKERS OF THE WORLD UNITE!!!!  ellisonz   Nov-17-10 06:22 AM   #144 
                          - thank you for kicking this thread and for baiting Hannah for more info  fascisthunter   Nov-17-10 10:45 AM   #158 
     - The KKE is anti-austerity.  David__77   Nov-17-10 02:25 AM   #96 
     - Soviets already tried that.  EmilyKent   Nov-17-10 02:28 AM   #99 
     - If at first you don't succeed, try, try again.  JVS   Nov-17-10 02:41 AM   #106 
        - No thank you.  EmilyKent   Nov-17-10 02:46 AM   #113 
           - yes!! something new like -- AUSTERITY FOR THE PROLES!!!! YAY!!!!  Hannah Bell   Nov-17-10 02:56 AM   #118 
              - You're a prole?  EmilyKent   Nov-17-10 03:12 AM   #126 
                 - you're not?  Hannah Bell   Nov-17-10 03:13 AM   #127 
                    - A prole is someone who does physical labour.  EmilyKent   Nov-17-10 03:16 AM   #128 
                       - you're a prole.  Hannah Bell   Nov-17-10 03:16 AM   #129 
                          - No, not even close.  EmilyKent   Nov-17-10 03:17 AM   #130 
                             - lol. so you're in education, but don't work for wages paid by an employer?  Hannah Bell   Nov-17-10 03:19 AM   #131 
                                - I'm in a research project, and currently in Canada.  EmilyKent   Nov-17-10 03:27 AM   #132 
                                   - do you get paid, or not?  Hannah Bell   Nov-17-10 03:31 AM   #133 
                                      - I don't work for free, although I would,  EmilyKent   Nov-17-10 03:33 AM   #134 
                                         - so, you sell your labor. case closed.  Hannah Bell   Nov-17-10 03:37 AM   #135 
                                            - There is no 'case' to be closed.  EmilyKent   Nov-17-10 03:38 AM   #136 
                                               - you said you work for someone else, & you don't work for free.  Hannah Bell   Nov-17-10 03:44 AM   #137 
                                               - The Queen works, and gets paid.  EmilyKent   Nov-17-10 03:47 AM   #138 
                                               - does the bulk of her income come from her capital, or her labor?  Hannah Bell   Nov-17-10 03:49 AM   #139 
                                               - I have no idea.  EmilyKent   Nov-17-10 03:53 AM   #140 
                                               - it's pay with a fancy name. you do a job for someone else & get paid for it.  Hannah Bell   Nov-17-10 03:59 AM   #141 
                                               - No actually it's not.  EmilyKent   Nov-17-10 04:05 AM   #142 
                                               - here's a clue: you don't have one.  Hannah Bell   Nov-17-10 04:57 AM   #143 
     - But the voters did not want them. Perhaps being anti-austerity is not a winning electoral strategy  Freddie Stubbs   Nov-17-10 08:24 AM   #148 
        - actually, the communists made large gains. unlike both the mainstream parties.  Hannah Bell   Nov-17-10 11:40 AM   #161 
           - So, they did better than the shellacking they got last time, but still lost  Freddie Stubbs   Nov-17-10 11:44 AM   #163 
              - um -- regional elections, parlimentary system. they didn't get "shellacked"  Hannah Bell   Nov-17-10 11:52 AM   #165 
     - Why are ALL parties in favor of austerity?  Freddie Stubbs   Nov-17-10 07:53 AM   #147 
        - For the same reason that "impeachment was off the table"  crikkett   Nov-17-10 08:54 AM   #150 
        - Everyone thinks that it would be politically disastrous?  Freddie Stubbs   Nov-17-10 09:48 AM   #152 
           - In one way or another, I think so.  crikkett   Nov-17-10 10:25 AM   #155 
        - i should have said: "all mainstream parties, all the large parties"  Hannah Bell   Nov-17-10 11:41 AM   #162 
  - I'm sure people here will assume that this is some sort of BIG FAIL or something.  readmoreoften   Nov-17-10 01:07 AM   #10 
  - Bankruptcy is generally considered a 'big fail', yes.  EmilyKent   Nov-17-10 01:09 AM   #12 
     - greece isn't "bankrupt". its budget deficit & debt is higher than the EU rules deem "OK"  Hannah Bell   Nov-17-10 01:17 AM   #19 
     - Which is why the EU is trying to bail them out?  EmilyKent   Nov-17-10 01:28 AM   #26 
        - no, the eu is FORCING a bailout on them. big difference. to make sure  Hannah Bell   Nov-17-10 01:30 AM   #30 
           - Um, Greece asked for help.  EmilyKent   Nov-17-10 01:31 AM   #31 
              - lol. sure it did. that's their story & they're sticking to it. goodbye.  Hannah Bell   Nov-17-10 01:51 AM   #57 
                 - Bye. Let me know when you find the magic word  EmilyKent   Nov-17-10 01:54 AM   #64 
                    - uh huh nt  laughingliberal   Nov-17-10 03:01 AM   #122 
     - Yeah, I meant the abstention from voting. Obviously bankruptcy is a big fail. And not the fault of  readmoreoften   Nov-17-10 02:31 AM   #101 
  - This is a "None of the above" vote ... right? That's what we need ...!!  defendandprotect   Nov-17-10 01:15 AM   #18 
  - Yes, that's what they're voting.  EmilyKent   Nov-17-10 01:34 AM   #33 
  - A little late to get to considering all involved in this -- but will try to catch up with  defendandprotect   Nov-17-10 01:48 AM   #54 
  - +1000 nt  laughingliberal   Nov-17-10 02:02 AM   #77 
  - there is something familiar in this thread  JVS   Nov-17-10 01:44 AM   #44 
  - Yes, a year of countries going broke,  EmilyKent   Nov-17-10 01:45 AM   #47 
     - Deleted sub-thread  Name removed   Nov-17-10 01:53 AM   #62 
  - It does seem when the people feel no one is representing them, they lose interest in voting. nt  laughingliberal   Nov-17-10 02:58 AM   #120 
  - I'd agree with that.  EmilyKent   Nov-17-10 03:07 AM   #125 
     - Modernity makes such things easy.  ellisonz   Nov-17-10 06:25 AM   #145 
  - My my, that "foundation" must pay a handsome honorarium.  Starry Messenger   Nov-17-10 07:47 AM   #146 
  - And, yet, it lives. nm  laughingliberal   Nov-17-10 09:44 AM   #151 
  - that's a pretty thick turnout...  Blue_Tires   Nov-17-10 10:20 AM   #154 
     - more:  Starry Messenger   Nov-17-10 10:31 AM   #156 
        - We are legion....  blindpig   Nov-17-10 10:44 AM   #157 
           - Yes we are.  Starry Messenger   Nov-17-10 10:49 AM   #160 
  - This thread needs a picture of a Prole Dancer  leftstreet   Nov-17-10 10:46 AM   #159 
 

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