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Mimosa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-10 09:11 AM
Response to Original message
109. Who uses a term like that?
Nobody I know would use such a putdown.
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  -Why I find the term pink tutu so damn offensive dsc  Nov-13-10 05:36 PM   #0 
  - There is often a connection between insults and ideology  jpgray   Nov-13-10 05:38 PM   #1 
  - Case in point, my rec has disappeared into the aether  jpgray   Nov-13-10 05:38 PM   #2 
  - Mine disappeared too. :( K&R  LiberalLoner   Nov-13-10 05:44 PM   #3 
  - I rec'd  uppityperson   Nov-13-10 05:51 PM   #8 
  - K & R  Pirate Smile   Nov-13-10 06:04 PM   #21 
  - Here is one. K & R.  chill_wind   Nov-13-10 05:52 PM   #10 
  - Did Michael Moore  whathehell   Nov-14-10 07:56 AM   #98 
     - He made one about Obama.  Qutzupalotl   Nov-14-10 01:07 PM   #150 
        - True....  whathehell   Nov-14-10 04:39 PM   #183 
  - Right on  The Philosopher   Nov-13-10 05:45 PM   #4 
  - Not all want to be bigots--some see a lack of belligerence as equivocation and weakness  jpgray   Nov-13-10 05:49 PM   #6 
  - Most insults originate from some stereotype. Many with  sufrommich   Nov-13-10 05:46 PM   #5 
  - Its both  FreeState   Nov-13-10 05:52 PM   #12 
  - because the biggest insult to a "man" is to equate him with a "girl".  mzteris   Nov-13-10 08:37 PM   #59 
     - I agree. In fact I often think that the deeply homophobic types  unpossibles   Nov-14-10 11:47 AM   #141 
  - Absolutely...and it's too bad  whathehell   Nov-14-10 07:49 AM   #97 
  - that's what I thought too, that it was a slam at women being weak, not gays  Hamlette   Nov-14-10 09:56 AM   #115 
  - This is the way that I took the remark when I heard it as well.  DawgHouse   Nov-14-10 03:21 PM   #175 
  - Which is also weird because MM has a wife and a daughter ....  defendandprotect   Nov-14-10 07:12 PM   #213 
  - me too. I thought it was a misogyny-based remark.  BlancheSplanchnik   Nov-14-10 04:10 PM   #182 
  - k&r and why I find the term so damn offensive  uppityperson   Nov-13-10 05:51 PM   #7 
  - Thank you, you said it much better than I. nt  sufrommich   Nov-13-10 05:52 PM   #11 
  - +1  Pacifist Patriot   Nov-14-10 12:37 PM   #145 
  - To me, there is none other more courageous than gay men and women  BlueCaliDem   Nov-13-10 05:52 PM   #9 
  - Well said..  polmaven   Nov-14-10 03:52 PM   #180 
  - In the hospital, years and years ago,  PDJane   Nov-13-10 05:53 PM   #13 
  - Mike Malloy uses (used?) the term "pink tutu Democrats"  BolivarianHero   Nov-13-10 05:53 PM   #14 
  - Maybe not, but why is "pink tutu" insulting?  jpgray   Nov-13-10 05:57 PM   #16 
  - exactly , well said - if weren't insult why would they say it in the context they do  karynnj   Nov-13-10 08:52 PM   #63 
  - Many people use words rooted in homophobia not knowing it  FreeState   Nov-13-10 05:59 PM   #17 
  - But lots of "homophobia" is rooted in mysogyny...and  whathehell   Nov-14-10 07:38 AM   #95 
     - Absolutely  FreeState   Nov-14-10 03:23 PM   #176 
        - That was a just a mistake..  whathehell   Nov-14-10 04:41 PM   #184 
  - Ignorance is not always steeped in bigotry.  October   Nov-14-10 10:58 AM   #132 
  - I'm into the arts and sports  panader0   Nov-13-10 05:57 PM   #15 
  - The worst thing  femrap   Nov-13-10 06:00 PM   #18 
  - Highly recommended. And as just one example of refuting the whole "gays are cowards" crap....  terrya   Nov-13-10 06:02 PM   #19 
  - I don't think this is the primary problem  CreekDog   Nov-13-10 06:02 PM   #20 
  - Why not do both?  jpgray   Nov-13-10 06:04 PM   #22 
  - futility and time  CreekDog   Nov-13-10 06:07 PM   #25 
     - "I don't think this is the primary problem..."  jpgray   Nov-13-10 06:12 PM   #30 
     - I disagree - look at the gay teen suicides  FreeState   Nov-13-10 06:12 PM   #31 
     - you arent the one for a lifetime being told weak, timid, hysterical,  seabeyond   Nov-13-10 06:14 PM   #33 
     - Someone likely thought that about Little Rock schools once, too.  blondeatlast   Nov-13-10 07:09 PM   #47 
        - trying to change the stereotype that "manly" = tough?  CreekDog   Nov-13-10 08:10 PM   #51 
        - again, it;s not an either or situation at all, they should go hand in hand  bettyellen   Nov-13-10 10:12 PM   #77 
        - I had some racist uncles  dsc   Nov-13-10 08:56 PM   #66 
  - You either fight prejudices everywhere you find it or you leave an opening  ThomCat   Nov-14-10 05:24 AM   #84 
  - I never even thought of that.  murielm99   Nov-13-10 06:05 PM   #23 
  - that is what bothers me so. this illusion only manly men are tough and strong when courage comes in  seabeyond   Nov-13-10 06:06 PM   #24 
  - +  struggle4progress   Nov-13-10 06:09 PM   #27 
  - Laila Ali called. She has a pink tutu AND boxing gloves...  pinboy3niner   Nov-13-10 11:06 PM   #82 
  - It also takes strength and courage to be willing to listen to others about what is offensive to them  bobbolink   Nov-13-10 08:33 PM   #57 
  - AMEN. Very succinctly--and beautifully simply--said. nt  blondeatlast   Nov-13-10 10:08 PM   #76 
  - Boiled down to the very essential point. Well said!  ThomCat   Nov-14-10 05:28 AM   #85 
  - Didn't Bartcop initiate this? I've called him on it for YEARS  October   Nov-14-10 12:51 PM   #148 
     - I think you are right.  murielm99   Nov-14-10 02:57 PM   #170 
     - Bart also said "Just list the facts"  Buzz cook   Nov-19-10 11:47 AM   #224 
  - I took it to mean women are cowards.  mzmolly   Nov-13-10 06:08 PM   #26 
  - People whose feet look like this from their art and livelihood are tough as nails and no cowards.  Brickbat   Nov-13-10 06:10 PM   #28 
  - +1  Tuesday Afternoon   Nov-13-10 07:01 PM   #46 
  - recommend  TexasObserver   Nov-13-10 06:10 PM   #29 
  - I took it to mean Obama was acting like a woman ballerina  XemaSab   Nov-13-10 06:13 PM   #32 
  - I know an old man who used to be a denver bronco  Roon   Nov-13-10 06:22 PM   #36 
  - There were loads of soccer player in my college ballet class because their  1monster   Nov-14-10 10:34 AM   #126 
  - that was the stereotype I witnessed, not the anti-gay stereotype in this instance  CreekDog   Nov-13-10 06:37 PM   #40 
  - Bill Maher is often very incredibly sexist and homophobic.  ThomCat   Nov-14-10 05:40 AM   #86 
     - Maher's messaging has base, RW tendencies  Kolesar   Nov-14-10 06:27 AM   #90 
     - You are correct about Maher...  whathehell   Nov-14-10 07:45 AM   #96 
     - Hold on, it wasn't Bill Maher that said it...it was Michael Moore  CreekDog   Nov-14-10 12:13 PM   #143 
     - My post was speaking in general about Bill Maher's commentary  ThomCat   Nov-14-10 01:21 PM   #153 
     - I was one of the people that complained about "Femi-Nazis", then...  Odin2005   Nov-14-10 05:39 PM   #196 
        - I remember you from before. And I remember when you posted  ThomCat   Nov-14-10 06:02 PM   #202 
           - Thanks!  Odin2005   Nov-14-10 06:07 PM   #203 
  - Thank you. /nt  October   Nov-14-10 12:47 PM   #147 
  - so did i.  orleans   Nov-14-10 03:37 PM   #178 
  - I get your point but to be honest when I hear that I think "little girl ballerina"  Dragonfli   Nov-13-10 06:18 PM   #34 
  - i waited for someone to comment. no one has. sexist... is goes over your head, but now homophobic  seabeyond   Nov-13-10 08:17 PM   #54 
  - I didn't know I was all that, I guess children beat up grown men all the time and are tough  Dragonfli   Nov-13-10 08:45 PM   #61 
  - from the time we are little up to our grown men, we use relating all male to girl when we want to  seabeyond   Nov-13-10 08:59 PM   #67 
  - Yes...It seems women are always  whathehell   Nov-14-10 07:59 AM   #100 
  - so it's okay to insult someone by calling them a girl, though?  mzteris   Nov-13-10 08:55 PM   #64 
     - I didn't mean to insult anybody and now I am a horrible human being  Dragonfli   Nov-13-10 10:56 PM   #81 
        - Naw. This stuff gets nuts..  axollot   Nov-14-10 02:01 PM   #157 
  - I will say that certainly there is a huge sexist component here  dsc   Nov-13-10 06:19 PM   #35 
  - Much of homophobia is rooted in misogyny.  foxfeet   Nov-13-10 06:37 PM   #39 
     - exactly! n/t  mzteris   Nov-13-10 08:56 PM   #65 
     - IMO most stereotypes of gays are misogynistic projections...  Odin2005   Nov-14-10 05:44 PM   #197 
  - Recommended. nt  ZombieHorde   Nov-13-10 06:33 PM   #37 
  - K&R  myrna minx   Nov-13-10 06:35 PM   #38 
  - in the same show he bemoaned that we haven't passed DADT repeal despite 70% support for doing so  CreekDog   Nov-13-10 06:39 PM   #41 
  - Deleted message  Name removed   Nov-13-10 06:39 PM   #42 
  - I just countered your unrec  Stinky The Clown   Nov-13-10 06:51 PM   #43 
     - WTF was his problem? Note, I use past tense.  chill_wind   Nov-13-10 06:53 PM   #44 
  - Well spoken (it's also insulting to women, as many slurs for gay are) and I nullified  blondeatlast   Nov-13-10 06:59 PM   #45 
  - So "pink tutu" is used as a noun?  darkstar3   Nov-13-10 08:01 PM   #48 
  - i dont think its homophobic but more sexist  La Lioness Priyanka   Nov-13-10 08:03 PM   #49 
  - it's homophobia derived from sexism. I have thought this for a  jonnyblitz   Nov-13-10 09:04 PM   #70 
     - a lot of straight people have no idea that there are unfeminine gay men. it's pretty crazy.  bettyellen   Nov-13-10 10:18 PM   #79 
  - I'm glad I got here in time to K&R this.  Jamastiene   Nov-13-10 08:06 PM   #50 
  - I've always seen it as a SEXIST insult (against women), and not anti-gay at all.  kath   Nov-13-10 08:12 PM   #52 
  - Does it matter? A slur is a slur, regardless of where it is aimed. nt  blondeatlast   Nov-13-10 08:16 PM   #53 
  - If you see a difference between anti-gay and misogyny, you let me know.  darkstar3   Nov-13-10 08:20 PM   #55 
     - +1!  mzteris   Nov-13-10 08:50 PM   #62 
     - Agreed. nt  blondeatlast   Nov-13-10 09:26 PM   #71 
     - Precisely... i've always observed the two to go hand-in-hand. n/t  Rhythm   Nov-13-10 09:58 PM   #73 
     - Indeed  Pacifist Patriot   Nov-14-10 12:39 PM   #146 
  - Exactly. It's this whole half-stalled gender revolution shit we're stuck in. It's a-ok for  iris27   Nov-13-10 08:22 PM   #56 
  - Sorry, but how in the world do you take Moores comment as a gay slur?  earth mom   Nov-13-10 08:34 PM   #58 
  - You can call someone "weak" without adding "you know, feminine."  jpgray   Nov-13-10 09:01 PM   #68 
  - He could have just said "Obama needs to put on his boxing gloves."  blondeatlast   Nov-13-10 10:00 PM   #74 
  - Misogyny and homophobia (at least against gay men) usually go hand-in-hand.  iris27   Nov-13-10 10:28 PM   #80 
  - wow, now that is an interesting theory i have never thought about  seabeyond   Nov-13-10 11:18 PM   #83 
  - All homophobia is also misogynistic.  Odin2005   Nov-14-10 05:47 PM   #199 
  - And I might add, ballerinas are far from weaklings!!  Sparkly   Nov-13-10 08:39 PM   #60 
  - I get it and I believe educating people about it is crucial.  laughingliberal   Nov-13-10 09:02 PM   #69 
  - I'm startled that many DUers so easily dismiss the anger about it.  blondeatlast   Nov-13-10 10:06 PM   #75 
  - yep, there's a lot of patriarchal bullshit here. dismissive explainations about how they know  bettyellen   Nov-13-10 10:16 PM   #78 
  - Yup, as I said up-thread I was like that until my friend's getting raped forced me to open my eyes.  Odin2005   Nov-14-10 05:50 PM   #201 
  - K & R  Withywindle   Nov-13-10 09:43 PM   #72 
  - Why do you assume it's all about gays and not a sexist slam on being a female?  dkf   Nov-14-10 05:52 AM   #87 
  - So gay men should be equated with women?  Behind the Aegis   Nov-14-10 06:20 AM   #88 
  - when my youngest son had that done to him, he said... and what is the problem with being a female?  seabeyond   Nov-14-10 09:03 AM   #107 
     - exactly!  mzteris   Nov-14-10 09:35 AM   #112 
     - "no, mom. It's not like being called a girl is an insult or anything!" ... enlightened  seabeyond   Nov-14-10 10:24 AM   #121 
     - I love him, too.  mzteris   Nov-14-10 11:25 AM   #136 
        - your boys sound like mine, difference in size too. and age order. isnt that interesting  seabeyond   Nov-14-10 11:31 AM   #137 
        - It sounds like your kids grow up with some very well rounded  ThomCat   Nov-14-10 06:18 PM   #208 
     - That is a wonderful kid. You did well with him.  ThomCat   Nov-14-10 06:14 PM   #207 
     - So bigotry against women and gay men is accepatable?  Behind the Aegis   Nov-14-10 02:07 PM   #159 
        - i think you had to work too hard to twist what happened with son, to that.  seabeyond   Nov-14-10 02:12 PM   #160 
           - Actually, your's doesn't.  Behind the Aegis   Nov-14-10 02:24 PM   #164 
              - aegis, be it a slam against women or used to insult gays, it is wrong. simply. wrong.  seabeyond   Nov-14-10 02:42 PM   #165 
                 - Well, that is good to hear!  Behind the Aegis   Nov-14-10 02:44 PM   #166 
                    - i dont have an issue with that. nor was i arguing dsc creating this thread.  seabeyond   Nov-14-10 02:51 PM   #168 
  - It is clearly both.  ThomCat   Nov-14-10 06:21 AM   #89 
  - Yet the poster equates being feminine with being weak and lacking courage.  dkf   Nov-14-10 06:30 AM   #91 
     - Deleted message  Name removed   Nov-14-10 07:12 AM   #92 
        - From your post...  dkf   Nov-14-10 07:57 AM   #99 
        - Edit: Not worth the effort. nt  blondeatlast   Nov-14-10 08:08 AM   #101 
        - Deleted message  Name removed   Nov-14-10 08:09 AM   #102 
           - Read the thread. I'm not the only one pointing this out.  dkf   Nov-14-10 11:45 AM   #139 
  - i got that little twist also, lol. nt  seabeyond   Nov-14-10 09:01 AM   #106 
  - K&R for all my loving & loved Gay friends! Well said! Thank you!! eom  flyarm   Nov-14-10 07:26 AM   #93 
  - well, for the record, ballet dancers take a lot of shit....  tomp   Nov-14-10 07:27 AM   #94 
  - I agree with you ..  sendero   Nov-14-10 08:16 AM   #103 
  - True, but that isn't how Moore meant it. The exact quote:  blondeatlast   Nov-14-10 08:33 AM   #104 
  - The first thing that always comes to MY mind when I hear "pink tutu" is Cheech, end of "Up In Smoke"  HopeHoops   Nov-14-10 08:52 AM   #105 
  - Yep. n/t  kurtzapril4   Nov-14-10 05:15 PM   #189 
  - K & R!  lonestarnot   Nov-14-10 09:09 AM   #108 
  - Who uses a term like that?  Mimosa   Nov-14-10 09:11 AM   #109 
  - Michael Moore did, on "Real time with Bill Maher," referring to Pres. Obama. Quote:  blondeatlast   Nov-14-10 09:50 AM   #113 
     - simply left off the pink tutu part; I'd have no problem with what he said.  seabeyond   Nov-14-10 10:26 AM   #122 
        - In context, Moore's remark was not hate speech  Mimosa   Nov-14-10 10:34 AM   #127 
           - i didnt say hate and i figure he was buddying up to sexist maher to feel all manly  seabeyond   Nov-14-10 10:49 AM   #129 
           - Agree with all of it--as I say, had he just used the boxing analogy alone, no problem.  blondeatlast   Nov-14-10 11:10 AM   #134 
  - My younger brother is a combat-decorated Naval aviator. He's also gay. I defy anyone ...  11 Bravo   Nov-14-10 09:19 AM   #110 
  - I'm baffled that this even needs explanation! (n/t)  Iggo   Nov-14-10 09:35 AM   #111 
  - I winced when MM used that expression  Love Bug   Nov-14-10 09:50 AM   #114 
  - thanks. spade a spade  seabeyond   Nov-14-10 10:27 AM   #123 
  - looked before and wasnt difinite so stopped using. i remember. here is what it says  seabeyond   Nov-14-10 10:33 AM   #125 
     - Interesting.  kurtzapril4   Nov-14-10 05:30 PM   #194 
  - Michael Moore had been talking earlier, about how "effective"  SoCalDem   Nov-14-10 02:21 PM   #161 
  - so when repugs use girlie man, are they merely talking about little girls or feminized men?  seabeyond   Nov-14-10 02:46 PM   #167 
     - Yes, I guess it IS "sexist", but as a political tool, it paints a vivid  SoCalDem   Nov-14-10 03:19 PM   #174 
        - you either stand against something or dont. n***** was once the way it was.  seabeyond   Nov-14-10 03:53 PM   #181 
  - When someone tells me to "grow a pair"  kurtzapril4   Nov-14-10 05:20 PM   #191 
  - here's why I don't like it...  AlbertCat   Nov-14-10 10:01 AM   #116 
  - I don't like those stupid pink ribbons everywhere, either - and for  Kalyke   Nov-14-10 10:05 AM   #117 
  - I completely agree.  PerpetuallyDazed   Nov-14-10 10:05 AM   #118 
  - I've got news for you. When I hear the term "pink tutus", I don't connect it with "gay".  vanbean   Nov-14-10 10:17 AM   #119 
  - Very happy to K&R this!  racaulk   Nov-14-10 10:18 AM   #120 
  - I have to take issue with you elevating football! over the arts. If we want  1monster   Nov-14-10 10:28 AM   #124 
  - Nice. Thank you. /nt  October   Nov-14-10 12:52 PM   #149 
  - no one is disrespecting ballerinas here, sorry. they are disrespecting the idea that it is okay to  bettyellen   Nov-14-10 07:07 PM   #212 
     - You totally missed my point.......  1monster   Nov-14-10 10:41 PM   #216 
        - Oh were you joking that people here were denying respect to ballerinas? because your post is  bettyellen   Nov-15-10 06:09 PM   #219 
           - step further, female qualities we are given, not that they are true. a forever conditioning  seabeyond   Nov-16-10 08:17 AM   #222 
              - I don't believe the weird detours people go to in denying that fact that these  bettyellen   Nov-16-10 06:53 PM   #223 
  - Oh pulleeezzzeee  Raoul   Nov-14-10 10:37 AM   #128 
  - right. only about dissing female and as a hetero male, that is please, get a life.  seabeyond   Nov-14-10 10:50 AM   #130 
  - "Get a fucking life." "Lighten up a bit>" In this very thread, many gays and women  blondeatlast   Nov-14-10 11:16 AM   #135 
  - Well, I'm a woman  kurtzapril4   Nov-14-10 06:10 PM   #205 
  - yes, and as you shrig this off, many shrugged off the coulter thing. then again, ,many of the  seabeyond   Nov-14-10 06:50 PM   #209 
  - Sorry, dupe  kurtzapril4   Nov-14-10 06:10 PM   #206 
  - Those "uppity" coloreds should never have been pissed off about  blondeatlast   Nov-14-10 11:35 AM   #138 
  - the one who is insulted gets to decide whether they are insulted  mzteris   Nov-14-10 11:51 AM   #142 
  - "Get a fucking life" "Lighten up"....."So fucking sensitive"....Disgusting.  Bluebear   Nov-14-10 02:05 PM   #158 
  - telling other people their concerns aren;t important? why does anyone here gives a fuck what u think  bettyellen   Nov-14-10 03:04 PM   #171 
  - I love you.  Bluebear   Nov-15-10 01:21 AM   #217 
     - I love you too Bluebear!  bettyellen   Nov-15-10 06:13 PM   #220 
  - No. n/t  demmiblue   Nov-14-10 03:12 PM   #173 
  - +1  fishbulb703   Nov-14-10 03:28 PM   #177 
  - The Marine's Lament (ridicules DADT)  frogmarch   Nov-14-10 10:58 AM   #131 
  - I prefer 'Vichy Dems' personally  Taverner   Nov-14-10 11:10 AM   #133 
  - Homosexuality, as someone said of old age, is not for sissies. n/t  Smarmie Doofus   Nov-14-10 11:47 AM   #140 
  - Can I add to this...  October   Nov-14-10 12:14 PM   #144 
  - This is some sort of common place terminology?  harmonicon   Nov-14-10 01:20 PM   #151 
  - DSC, You Rock  NashVegas   Nov-14-10 01:21 PM   #152 
  - Agree, agree - but please, hear my plea - outrage like this - about a tutu reminds me  axollot   Nov-14-10 01:46 PM   #154 
  - I never heard "pink tutu" before. Is that something only used in the LGBT community?  bc3000   Nov-14-10 01:50 PM   #155 
  - Cowardice... yeah right.... K&R  Lost-in-FL   Nov-14-10 01:52 PM   #156 
  - 100% agree.  Capitalocracy   Nov-14-10 02:22 PM   #162 
  - Totally agree the strongest peoplein the world are gay because they have to be.  DemocraticPilgrim   Nov-14-10 02:24 PM   #163 
  - K&R n/t  Denzil_DC   Nov-14-10 02:52 PM   #169 
  - Color me naive, but when I heard Michael Moore say that ...  puebloknot   Nov-14-10 03:11 PM   #172 
  - Hear hear! Also, taking it back back further, aren't they calling women cowards? Or just ballerinas?  DesertDiamond   Nov-14-10 03:38 PM   #179 
  - You and I may not agree on much in terms of the president, but you are spot on here!  Liberal_Stalwart71   Nov-14-10 04:44 PM   #185 
  - Toughen up  Hawkowl   Nov-14-10 04:53 PM   #186 
  - no he wasnt. a weak girl. calling bullshit out is toughing up.... ignoring it is weak. nt  seabeyond   Nov-14-10 04:58 PM   #188 
  - Haven't heard pink tutu in years - since I stopped going to bartcop  Politicub   Nov-14-10 04:54 PM   #187 
  - Didn't you have a Shirley picture for him? Guess not.  Hardrada   Nov-14-10 05:20 PM   #192 
  - What? Not sure what you mean n/t  Politicub   Nov-14-10 05:36 PM   #195 
     - Check down at the botton of Bartcop's columns.  Hardrada   Nov-15-10 03:13 AM   #218 
  - I suppose if you were a fan of Tom Dashle it might be upsetting.  Buzz cook   Nov-19-10 12:06 PM   #225 
  - Interesting. I will K&R because I honestly never saw it that way. I took that expression  Grown2Hate   Nov-14-10 05:19 PM   #190 
  - pink tutu = little girls. girlie men. quit crying like a girl, throwing, running  seabeyond   Nov-14-10 05:45 PM   #198 
  - Male ballet dancers  polmaven   Nov-16-10 07:35 AM   #221 
  - And us straight guys that fit the "stereotype" are accused of being gay, it sucks.  Odin2005   Nov-14-10 05:29 PM   #193 
  - K&R --  defendandprotect   Nov-14-10 05:50 PM   #200 
  - late K&R ---  defendandprotect   Nov-14-10 06:08 PM   #204 
  - Error: you can only recommend threads which were started in the past 24 hours  Truth2Tell   Nov-14-10 06:58 PM   #210 
  - OMG, I'm fucking GAY....  WCGreen   Nov-14-10 06:59 PM   #211 
  - +1  Odin2005   Nov-14-10 10:11 PM   #215 
  - Love that people are looking at this from the highest perspectives .... sexism and homophobia....  defendandprotect   Nov-14-10 07:21 PM   #214 
 

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