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Reply #12: Why is the union objecting to this settlement? Because it's the wrong solution. [View All]

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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-11-10 08:33 PM
Response to Reply #2
12. Why is the union objecting to this settlement? Because it's the wrong solution.
"The union said it was concerned that the agreement would leave low-performing schools with a higher concentration of less experienced teachers. It also said "state law already gives schools districts flexibility in layoff procedures to best meet the needs of students" and "the settlement does nothing to solve ongoing staffing problems at hard-to-staff schools."'


The union is not anti-civil rights as your OP suggests. They are against this fake solution to the problem.
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  -8th Grader Sues School District. Wins. Who Objects to Settlement? The Teacher's Union. msanthrope  Oct-11-10 07:50 PM   #0 
  - and your complaint against the teachers' union is.....? nt  msongs   Oct-11-10 08:00 PM   #1 
  - I find it interesting that a union would object to an Equal Protection settlement.  msanthrope   Oct-11-10 08:04 PM   #2 
  - Why is the union objecting to this settlement? Because it's the wrong solution.  EFerrari   Oct-11-10 08:33 PM   #12 
     - The ACLU offered a fake solution to a civil rights problem?  msanthrope   Oct-11-10 08:44 PM   #18 
     - The district that was happy to leave those schools in the hands of subs is frustrated?  EFerrari   Oct-11-10 08:52 PM   #24 
        - Generally, when you object to a civil rights settlement for self-interest, well, that makes you  msanthrope   Oct-11-10 08:58 PM   #28 
        - Doesn't even merit a response. n/t  EFerrari   Oct-11-10 10:22 PM   #66 
           - And yet, you responded. n/t  msanthrope   Oct-11-10 10:23 PM   #69 
              - LOL  wtmusic   Oct-11-10 10:25 PM   #71 
              - +1  BzaDem   Oct-13-10 05:57 AM   #122 
        - Maybe it's because the UTLA contract has 19 pages devoted to how teachers  wtmusic   Oct-11-10 10:18 PM   #63 
     - Mumbo-jumbo, gobbledy-gook.  wtmusic   Oct-11-10 08:50 PM   #22 
     - You're ignoring the fact that UTLA has fiercely fought to keep the seniority system in place.  Frank Booth   Oct-11-10 10:34 PM   #76 
     - One of my closest friends  Dorian Gray   Oct-12-10 05:43 AM   #93 
        - Interesting take. Thank you for sharing that. n/t  msanthrope   Oct-12-10 07:09 AM   #96 
        - Well, it is  Dorian Gray   Oct-12-10 09:05 AM   #108 
           - well, I liked the proposed settlement-- up to 45 of the poorest and/or worst performing  msanthrope   Oct-12-10 09:23 AM   #110 
           - I do hope that things can turn around for the state soon  Dorian Gray   Oct-12-10 04:44 PM   #119 
           - The source of the problem is a system which ignores merit.  wtmusic   Oct-12-10 10:54 AM   #117 
              - That can be true  Dorian Gray   Oct-12-10 04:47 PM   #120 
                 - Merit is difficult to determine  wtmusic   Oct-13-10 01:21 PM   #124 
        - oops  Dorian Gray   Oct-12-10 09:03 AM   #107 
  - Their very existence. n/t  QC   Oct-11-10 10:32 PM   #75 
  - The obvious solution is for the district to keep the good teachers in the bad schools. nt  bemildred   Oct-11-10 08:06 PM   #3 
  - You are conflating 'bad' with 'poorest.'  msanthrope   Oct-11-10 08:08 PM   #4 
     - Exactly, some good teachers have to go back to the poor schools.  thunder rising   Oct-11-10 08:12 PM   #6 
     - No I am not, "bad" meant "bad".  bemildred   Oct-11-10 08:34 PM   #14 
     - I misunderstood you, sorry! You are correct. n/t  msanthrope   Oct-11-10 08:46 PM   #19 
     - you mean teach for awhile recruits, don't you.  Hannah Bell   Oct-11-10 08:56 PM   #27 
        - If you have any evidence as to the caliber of the teachers subjected to layoffs,  msanthrope   Oct-11-10 09:04 PM   #31 
        - here you go:  Hannah Bell   Oct-11-10 09:16 PM   #37 
        - You do realize that's the wrong case? The wrong court, too. n/t  msanthrope   Oct-11-10 09:25 PM   #42 
           - yes dear, i realize it's not the case in your OP. It's a recently decided case demonstrating  Hannah Bell   Oct-11-10 09:30 PM   #46 
              - Do you have any evidence that links your case to my case? An issue?  msanthrope   Oct-11-10 09:44 PM   #49 
                 - disingenuous one.  Hannah Bell   Oct-11-10 09:47 PM   #52 
                    - That might be the sweetest thing you've ever said to me.  msanthrope   Oct-11-10 09:53 PM   #55 
        - you don't seem to know much about education  Gabi Hayes   Oct-11-10 09:20 PM   #39 
           - While I find madfloridian's journals interesting, you still haven't  msanthrope   Oct-11-10 09:27 PM   #44 
              - you've been linked twice, dear. quit pretending.  Hannah Bell   Oct-11-10 09:31 PM   #47 
              - Again, do you have any evidence that the cases are linked?  msanthrope   Oct-11-10 09:46 PM   #51 
                 - ...  Hannah Bell   Oct-11-10 09:48 PM   #53 
                 - to spell it out for the last time, TFA and similar groups, like that bogus  Gabi Hayes   Oct-11-10 10:22 PM   #67 
                    - Again, other than speculation, do you have a single bit of evidence that  msanthrope   Oct-11-10 10:26 PM   #72 
                       - you can knock it off....it's not working, microrhetoro. it's very clear what the  Gabi Hayes   Oct-11-10 10:58 PM   #78 
                          - Wait--are you saying the ACLU is fomenting a TFA and Green Dot agenda?  msanthrope   Oct-11-10 11:03 PM   #80 
                             - you mean a blog post littered with agenda driven wingnuts like the one you  Gabi Hayes   Oct-11-10 11:11 PM   #84 
                                - The ACLU are agenda driven wingnuts? Did you not notice the Huffpo link was to the AP feed?  msanthrope   Oct-11-10 11:17 PM   #86 
                                - Advocating seniority reform does not equate to cheerleading the charter movement.  wtmusic   Oct-11-10 11:21 PM   #87 
              - you know very well, don't you?  Gabi Hayes   Oct-11-10 10:07 PM   #60 
                 - Again, do you have ANY evidence that Teach For America is involved in this case?  msanthrope   Oct-11-10 10:22 PM   #68 
                    - I've already answered the question of TFA's involvement. it's NOT with this case, but  Gabi Hayes   Oct-11-10 11:02 PM   #79 
                       - So, if TFA isn't involved, then WHY are you bringing them up???  msanthrope   Oct-11-10 11:05 PM   #81 
                       - "when your own OP is carefully designed to hide sources and agendas"  msanthrope   Oct-11-10 11:32 PM   #89 
        - really.... do you believe this garbage? Teach For America strikes again, charging THOUSANDS in  Gabi Hayes   Oct-11-10 09:14 PM   #36 
           - What does Teach for America have to do with this thread?  msanthrope   Oct-11-10 09:19 PM   #38 
              - quite a bit.  Hannah Bell   Oct-11-10 09:22 PM   #40 
                 - Again, that's the wrong case, and the wrong court.  msanthrope   Oct-11-10 09:28 PM   #45 
                 - i already did, dear.  Hannah Bell   Oct-11-10 09:33 PM   #48 
                 - why bother with this one? agenda written all over it  Gabi Hayes   Oct-11-10 09:45 PM   #50 
  - That's disgusting. Shame on the teacher's union and those teachers for putting $$ before kids.  ClarkUSA   Oct-11-10 08:09 PM   #5 
  - I thought that direct citations to primary source material on an education thread  msanthrope   Oct-11-10 08:14 PM   #7 
     - Yes, I can hardly believe what I'm seeing: facts minus the usual overwrought victimized spin.  ClarkUSA   Oct-11-10 08:28 PM   #10 
  - What's the policy of UTLA on teachers leaving poor schools for "rich "ones?  wtmusic   Oct-11-10 08:19 PM   #8 
  - UTLA has a teacher-initiated transfer program--your seniority number doesn't  msanthrope   Oct-11-10 08:41 PM   #15 
     - Thx. nt  wtmusic   Oct-11-10 08:43 PM   #17 
     - Surely dismissals should be by school rather than by district.  Donald Ian Rankin   Oct-12-10 05:40 AM   #92 
        - The collective bargaining agreement of UTLA prevented a by-school  msanthrope   Oct-12-10 06:54 AM   #95 
  - K&R n/t  DeSwiss   Oct-11-10 08:21 PM   #9 
  - Disappointing.  JNelson6563   Oct-11-10 08:32 PM   #11 
  - So what would you say to a teacher with 6 years senority in one school  dsc   Oct-11-10 08:34 PM   #13 
  - They should be protected from layoffs if they're working at the poorest  wtmusic   Oct-11-10 08:42 PM   #16 
  - actually if the numbers justify having x number of teachers at that school  dsc   Oct-11-10 08:48 PM   #21 
     - Teachers don't want to move to poorer schools  wtmusic   Oct-11-10 08:53 PM   #25 
        - they do if the teacher is told either move to that school or you don't have a job at all  dsc   Oct-11-10 09:13 PM   #35 
           - Please, give me an example of just one.  wtmusic   Oct-11-10 10:07 PM   #59 
              - when our state laid off employees it was last hired first fired  dsc   Oct-11-10 10:19 PM   #64 
                 - Which employees?  wtmusic   Oct-11-10 10:20 PM   #65 
                 - It was an across the board cut  dsc   Oct-11-10 10:26 PM   #73 
                    - I would bet that UAW contracts don't give members with seniority  wtmusic   Oct-11-10 11:08 PM   #83 
                       - actually they do  dsc   Oct-12-10 04:53 AM   #90 
                       - The UTLA contract gives preference for transfers to members with seniority  wtmusic   Oct-12-10 10:00 AM   #115 
                       - They do, my dad worked at Chrysler Fenton MO plant  snooper2   Oct-12-10 08:55 AM   #102 
                 - these posters have no interest in facts. today is for teacher-bashing. they're out in force.  Hannah Bell   Oct-11-10 10:23 PM   #70 
  - Are you talking different schools? Or the same school?  msanthrope   Oct-11-10 08:51 PM   #23 
     - then they will leave that school once they have enough senority protection  dsc   Oct-12-10 04:54 AM   #91 
        - Do you think that the reasons stated for teacher transfer in Post 94  msanthrope   Oct-12-10 07:33 AM   #98 
           - honestly the fact the schools are hard to work in is part of it  dsc   Oct-12-10 08:24 AM   #100 
              - Why do you expect students to value the ship, when the teachers are taking the lifeboats out?  msanthrope   Oct-12-10 08:58 AM   #105 
  - LA Times  malletgirl02   Oct-11-10 08:46 PM   #20 
  - I hate to bring facts to your argument....  msanthrope   Oct-11-10 08:55 PM   #26 
     - You don't have to be all snarky  malletgirl02   Oct-11-10 09:00 PM   #30 
  - The court has made a ruling. Now it is time for the losers to shut up and comply with it  bluestateguy   Oct-11-10 08:59 PM   #29 
  - Not that easy--the court has yet to rule on the settlement, thus  msanthrope   Oct-11-10 09:09 PM   #33 
     - is that your next target: lawyers?  Gabi Hayes   Oct-11-10 09:26 PM   #43 
        - Not at all--the ACLU did a very fine job on this case. They should be applauded. n/t  msanthrope   Oct-11-10 09:59 PM   #56 
        - what are you, a comedian? you know exactly what I'm talking about  Gabi Hayes   Oct-11-10 10:09 PM   #61 
           - Actually, no. But here's a question--how would TFA involvement affect the EP  msanthrope   Oct-11-10 10:31 PM   #74 
              - last time...very last....I respond to you. it's the big picture. your narrow focus is self-  Gabi Hayes   Oct-11-10 11:05 PM   #82 
                 - I just don't see the ACLU as part of the "astroturf-led/funded so-called educational reform."  msanthrope   Oct-11-10 11:13 PM   #85 
        - Nurses. n/t  EFerrari   Oct-11-10 10:10 PM   # 
  - There are, of course, solutions that would work for all parties. But LA will use this to gut  Hannah Bell   Oct-11-10 09:09 PM   #32 
  - Then the union should have shown up to the settlement talks.  msanthrope   Oct-11-10 09:11 PM   #34 
     - ...  Hannah Bell   Oct-11-10 09:51 PM   #54 
        - How is it disingenuous to post an actual fact? The union didn't show up to the settlement.  msanthrope   Oct-11-10 10:01 PM   #57 
  - Therefore, obvious conclusion = "teacher's unions are bad"  Canuckistanian   Oct-11-10 09:22 PM   #41 
  - No--it's that UTLA is self-interested.  msanthrope   Oct-11-10 10:06 PM   #58 
  - A more reasonable conclusion is that this particular teachers union is more concerned about  Freddie Stubbs   Oct-12-10 07:45 AM   #99 
  - I only have two beefs with unions.  NutmegYankee   Oct-11-10 10:10 PM   #62 
  - Well, here you have seniority affecting the civil rights of a third party...  msanthrope   Oct-11-10 10:38 PM   #77 
  - Interesting thread n/t  tammywammy   Oct-11-10 11:31 PM   #88 
  - I just love the BS excuses in this thread.  crazyjoe   Oct-12-10 05:54 AM   #94 
  - I don't know why teachers transfer but I think that layoffs  msanthrope   Oct-12-10 07:24 AM   #97 
  - +1  uncommon   Oct-12-10 08:56 AM   #104 
  - agreed, if they lay off 10 teachers, and they all happen to teach  crazyjoe   Oct-13-10 05:52 AM   #121 
  - I think you are largely correct -  uncommon   Oct-12-10 08:56 AM   #103 
  - And teachers that leave reinforce the failure....  msanthrope   Oct-12-10 09:05 AM   #109 
     - Indeed.  uncommon   Oct-12-10 09:49 AM   #114 
  - Word!!!  Skidmore   Oct-12-10 09:28 AM   #111 
  - Good for those kids. nt  sufrommich   Oct-12-10 08:43 AM   #101 
  - Arne, is that you? n/t  joeybee12   Oct-12-10 09:03 AM   #106 
  - Yes, and I'm reporting you to Agent Mike, the DLC, the sell-outs  msanthrope   Oct-12-10 09:49 AM   #113 
  - Seniority sucks.  Nye Bevan   Oct-12-10 09:31 AM   #112 
  - When it gives rise to injustice, it does. n/t  msanthrope   Oct-12-10 10:25 AM   #116 
  - Thanks.  Scurrilous   Oct-12-10 02:46 PM   #118 
  - When the best response people can muster is "Look over there! TFA TFA TFA!"  BzaDem   Oct-13-10 06:05 AM   #123 
 

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