| 61. I rephrased what you said an an equivalent form that happens to make your argument look ridiculous. |
|
Sorry that makes you uncomfortable.
You are literally saying that charging people for their services on the spot (or ANY other scheme) couldn't possibly work, SOLELY because they would already be doing it if it would have worked.
|
| -Should DU take up a collection to help Obion county pay for fire protection? |
Fumesucker |
Oct-07-10 08:56 PM |
#0 |
 -
yes. n/t |
sohndrsmith |
Oct-07-10 08:58 PM |
#1 |
| -
I'd be fine with that |
sandnsea |
Oct-07-10 09:00 PM |
#2 |
  -
Where did I offer an opinion on whether DU would do such a thing? |
Fumesucker |
Oct-07-10 09:03 PM |
#7 |
| -
A lot of us are dirt poor, but you may have some success. nt |
ZombieHorde |
Oct-07-10 09:00 PM |
#3 |
| -
But have no problem demanding that others pay for services you won't pay for nt |
WolverineDG |
Oct-07-10 09:04 PM |
# |
| -
certainly I would agree |
SargeUNN |
Oct-07-10 09:00 PM |
#4 |
| -
I pledge $0.00 to the cause. |
JVS |
Oct-07-10 09:01 PM |
#5 |
| -
Maybe we could each volunteer to pay one $75 scrip. |
LiberalAndProud |
Oct-07-10 09:02 PM |
#6 |
| -
I think that's actually the fire chief of a different department |
fishwax |
Oct-08-10 12:09 AM |
#136 |
| -
I'd be more in favor of a collection to help out the poor guy whose house burned down |
derby378 |
Oct-07-10 09:03 PM |
#8 |
| -
I encourage you to write an OP on that subject.. |
Fumesucker |
Oct-07-10 09:04 PM |
#9 |
| -
absolutely - the county legislators need to do the right thing |
TorchTheWitch |
Oct-07-10 09:25 PM |
#11 |
| -
county voted to put 2 more municipals on opt out subscribes...they didnt learn a damn thing. |
seabeyond |
Oct-07-10 09:34 PM |
#14 |
| -
he's already been paid a couple thousand in temporary housing money & |
Hannah Bell |
Oct-07-10 10:17 PM |
#43 |
| -
BUT, .... is he going to put aside $75 to subscribe? i wanna know. nt |
seabeyond |
Oct-07-10 10:26 PM |
#46 |
| -
wow, your hatred and prejudice on this issue is astounding. |
Bluerthanblue |
Oct-08-10 08:37 AM |
#174 |
| -
No, this is the county's responsibility |
TorchTheWitch |
Oct-07-10 09:21 PM |
#10 |
| -
The victims' son, Todd Cranick, still does not know whether he supports a tax for fire protection.. |
Fumesucker |
Oct-07-10 09:29 PM |
#12 |
| -
I believe Todd is the guy who assaulted the fire chief, & the father of the young man who started |
Hannah Bell |
Oct-07-10 10:33 PM |
#48 |
| -
and the man that started his own fire 3 yrs ago and didnt pay then either |
seabeyond |
Oct-07-10 10:46 PM |
#54 |
| -
it's kind of odd how that man is connected to fire. |
Hannah Bell |
Oct-07-10 10:54 PM |
#64 |
| -
and the man that started his own fire 3 yrs ago and didnt pay then either |
seabeyond |
Oct-07-10 10:46 PM |
#55 |
| -
Todd's actual quote supported tax funded service |
TorchTheWitch |
Oct-08-10 04:39 AM |
#164 |
| -
.013 per $100 rolled into their taxes.... " loathe to tax themselves so heavily " |
seabeyond |
Oct-07-10 09:31 PM |
#13 |
| -
Exactly... |
Fumesucker |
Oct-07-10 09:35 PM |
#15 |
| -
Per $100. I posted the wrong number in one of my earlier responses. |
LiberalAndProud |
Oct-07-10 09:39 PM |
#18 |
| -
I read per $1000 on another site, not DU, if I was wrong I apologize .. |
Fumesucker |
Oct-07-10 09:46 PM |
#23 |
| -
well |
seabeyond |
Oct-07-10 10:00 PM |
#27 |
| -
Yep, it's late and I'm getting tired and a bit slow.. |
Fumesucker |
Oct-07-10 10:02 PM |
#30 |
| -
You're right. Quit moving decimals on me! |
LiberalAndProud |
Oct-07-10 10:42 PM |
#52 |
| -
i have been lectured it is really really hard coming up with $75 a year. 11.05 is hard |
seabeyond |
Oct-07-10 10:47 PM |
#58 |
| -
Check my math, seabeyond. |
LiberalAndProud |
Oct-07-10 09:37 PM |
#16 |
| -
i copied |
seabeyond |
Oct-07-10 09:40 PM |
#19 |
| -
Since Keith has announced and is promoting such an act |
SargeUNN |
Oct-07-10 09:37 PM |
#17 |
| -
Not everyone watches TV.. |
Fumesucker |
Oct-07-10 09:42 PM |
#21 |
| -
olberman is collecting money for the twit? does he know the guy has |
Hannah Bell |
Oct-07-10 10:25 PM |
#45 |
| -
Nope. If they don't want to pay annual fees, they can pay for the full cost of any fires. |
BzaDem |
Oct-07-10 09:40 PM |
#20 |
| -
If not for the people of Obion county then why not for the poor taxpayers of S Fulton ? |
Fumesucker |
Oct-07-10 09:44 PM |
#22 |
| -
They don't need to pay more than their fair share if the fire department simply billed unsubscribers |
BzaDem |
Oct-07-10 09:51 PM |
#24 |
| -
This would be fine, except |
distantearlywarning |
Oct-07-10 09:53 PM |
#25 |
| -
You can't sue someone if they are out of your state? |
BzaDem |
Oct-07-10 10:02 PM |
#29 |
| -
You can't sue someone if state law says you can't.. |
Fumesucker |
Oct-07-10 10:05 PM |
#31 |
| -
Please point me to this place in TN state law. n/t |
BzaDem |
Oct-07-10 10:06 PM |
#33 |
| -
South Fulton is in Tennessee. |
LiberalAndProud |
Oct-07-10 10:53 PM |
#62 |
| -
Then why have over half the people who had a fire extinguished without the benefit of subscription. |
Fumesucker |
Oct-07-10 09:57 PM |
#26 |
| -
i think it is more than half. reading odions fire plan, i read where it said "most" did not pay. |
seabeyond |
Oct-07-10 10:01 PM |
#28 |
| -
If they don't pay the bill, they can sue. |
BzaDem |
Oct-07-10 10:05 PM |
#32 |
| -
have you run a businesss? nt |
seabeyond |
Oct-07-10 10:07 PM |
#34 |
| -
wait... a SUCCESSFUL business? |
seabeyond |
Oct-07-10 10:07 PM |
#35 |
| -
The legal question over whether a claim is valid in court has nothing to do with whether or not |
BzaDem |
Oct-07-10 10:09 PM |
#36 |
| -
but it does. and since you dont get it, that tells me you are clueless. |
seabeyond |
Oct-07-10 10:11 PM |
#37 |
| -
That is true for small amounts. It would not make sense to sue over a few dollars or even a few |
BzaDem |
Oct-07-10 10:11 PM |
#38 |
| -
ah... you are gonna get that blood out of that turnup, huh? average income 35K. nt |
seabeyond |
Oct-07-10 10:14 PM |
#40 |
| -
Yeah, it might take a few years of garnished wages to pay it off. |
BzaDem |
Oct-07-10 10:16 PM |
#42 |
| -
that's |
Common Sense Party |
Oct-07-10 11:07 PM |
#85 |
| -
well, shit |
seabeyond |
Oct-07-10 11:08 PM |
#88 |
| -
No problem. |
Common Sense Party |
Oct-08-10 12:48 AM |
#147 |
| -
there are 5 municipals that are suppose to get $500 for a call. they are not on subscibe |
seabeyond |
Oct-07-10 10:13 PM |
#39 |
| -
The $500/call is if you ALREADY pay the $75. The cost if you didn't pay the $75 would be MUCH higher |
BzaDem |
Oct-07-10 10:15 PM |
#41 |
| -
none of it is getting paid.... and neither you nor i know the legalities |
seabeyond |
Oct-07-10 10:30 PM |
#47 |
| -
So your entire argument comes down to "if you were right, they wouldn't have let the house burn!" |
BzaDem |
Oct-07-10 10:42 PM |
#51 |
| -
you know, take someones words. fabricate a story, and discuss.... |
seabeyond |
Oct-07-10 10:49 PM |
#59 |
| -
I rephrased what you said an an equivalent form that happens to make your argument look ridiculous. |
BzaDem |
Oct-07-10 10:52 PM |
#61 |
| -
it really is moot. first, ignore the part of you being clueless on legalities. i dont argue |
seabeyond |
Oct-07-10 10:59 PM |
#73 |
| -
If you are going to make the radical claim that a verbal contract here isnt valid in a court of law, |
BzaDem |
Oct-07-10 11:06 PM |
#83 |
| -
oh bullshit. look at you back pedal..... ba ha hahaha. |
seabeyond |
Oct-07-10 11:09 PM |
#90 |
| -
I'm sure you meant something other than gibberish by that. |
BzaDem |
Oct-07-10 11:11 PM |
#94 |
| -
what? bullshit? or "back pedal"? lol. |
seabeyond |
Oct-07-10 11:23 PM |
#104 |
| -
I simply pointed out that you are the one claiming a contract is invalid without giving a theory |
BzaDem |
Oct-07-10 11:31 PM |
#111 |
| -
i said, i am not arguing legalities. i dont know them. you dont know them. how stupid is it |
seabeyond |
Oct-07-10 11:33 PM |
#113 |
| -
I do know enough about legalities to know that verbal contracts are valid contracts. |
BzaDem |
Oct-07-10 11:44 PM |
#119 |
| -
county is the one that say must be subscribe. so tell me the rules to a subscribe system. |
seabeyond |
Oct-07-10 11:52 PM |
#125 |
| -
All of that is IRRELEVANT if a verbal contract is made on the spot betwen the homeowner and the FD. |
BzaDem |
Oct-07-10 11:56 PM |
#130 |
| -
see, you are clueless on law. one thing,. all there has to be is one thing |
seabeyond |
Oct-08-10 05:31 AM |
#165 |
| -
Good luck Sea |
JustAmused |
Oct-08-10 12:19 AM |
#140 |
| -
i need the legalities. i need to know what county allows city to do on counties opt out subscribe |
seabeyond |
Oct-07-10 11:03 PM |
#80 |
| -
no, it's not. |
Hannah Bell |
Oct-07-10 10:39 PM |
#49 |
| -
No, what's not? n/t |
BzaDem |
Oct-07-10 10:41 PM |
#50 |
| -
i believe the 500 was for the 5 municipal that did not subscribe. right? nt |
seabeyond |
Oct-07-10 10:50 PM |
#60 |
| -
Yeah, um count me out of this one. Thanks. |
flvegan |
Oct-07-10 10:22 PM |
#44 |
| -
I quite honestly have not seen a more absurd debate on DU since I joined - neither side has |
apocalypsehow |
Oct-07-10 10:43 PM |
#53 |
| -
What's absurd to me is why ANYONE who supports what the FD did could even CLAIM to call themselves |
BzaDem |
Oct-07-10 10:46 PM |
#57 |
| -
So...how much cash are you dispatching to Obion County to cover the libertarian deadbeats? |
apocalypsehow |
Oct-07-10 10:56 PM |
#65 |
| -
None. The FD can bill the cost of their services, and sue if they don't pay. Just like ERs do. |
BzaDem |
Oct-07-10 10:57 PM |
#67 |
| -
"None" - That's about what I figured. Point made & discussion concluded. n/t. |
apocalypsehow |
Oct-07-10 10:59 PM |
#70 |
| -
Of course you would leave the discussion, since you have absolutely no argument whatsoever. |
BzaDem |
Oct-07-10 11:03 PM |
#79 |
| -
Sure I did - and you just made it. |
apocalypsehow |
Oct-08-10 12:29 AM |
#145 |
| -
Do you think the FD didn't put out the fire because they are heartless bastards? |
Fumesucker |
Oct-07-10 10:58 PM |
#68 |
| -
Somehow when it comes to someone's life, emergency rooms magically don't have a problem. |
BzaDem |
Oct-07-10 11:00 PM |
#74 |
| -
No one's life was in danger.. |
Fumesucker |
Oct-07-10 11:08 PM |
#86 |
| -
Exactly. You admit there are some things where help should be provided before asking about payment. |
BzaDem |
Oct-07-10 11:09 PM |
#89 |
| -
Your point? |
Fumesucker |
Oct-07-10 11:11 PM |
#95 |
| -
That is my point in its entirety. It speaks for itself. |
BzaDem |
Oct-07-10 11:13 PM |
#96 |
| -
So you equate property, which is covered by insurance in fact, with human life? |
Fumesucker |
Oct-07-10 11:22 PM |
#102 |
| -
Who said anything about equating? Just because the situations are analogous doesn't mean life and |
BzaDem |
Oct-07-10 11:26 PM |
#106 |
| -
You brought up the example of an ER.. |
Fumesucker |
Oct-07-10 11:38 PM |
#116 |
| -
I brought it up because it was an analogous situation. Not the exact same situation. n/t |
BzaDem |
Oct-07-10 11:44 PM |
#118 |
| -
Property, particularly insured property, is not human life.. |
Fumesucker |
Oct-07-10 11:46 PM |
#120 |
| -
Do you know what an analogy is? |
BzaDem |
Oct-07-10 11:47 PM |
#122 |
| -
The situation is analogous when human life is at risk from the fire.. |
Fumesucker |
Oct-07-10 11:50 PM |
#123 |
| -
The ER doesn't just help people who's life is at risk. n/t |
BzaDem |
Oct-07-10 11:52 PM |
#126 |
| -
Indeed, and not everyone whose life is at risk is helped by the ER.. |
Fumesucker |
Oct-07-10 11:56 PM |
#129 |
| -
Let me put it this way. There are people at the ER for which the cost of helping are higher than |
BzaDem |
Oct-07-10 11:59 PM |
#132 |
| -
Your point? |
Fumesucker |
Oct-08-10 12:04 AM |
#133 |
| -
That ERs don't tend to go bankrupt from helping people and collecting later. n/t |
BzaDem |
Oct-08-10 12:06 AM |
#134 |
| -
Do over half of the people who use an ER skip payment? |
Fumesucker |
Oct-08-10 12:17 AM |
#139 |
| -
That affects how MUCH the ER/FD would have to overcharge to other non-subscribers who DO pay |
BzaDem |
Oct-08-10 12:22 AM |
#143 |
| -
Yes, the taxpayers of S Fulton will pay more.. |
Fumesucker |
Oct-08-10 12:36 AM |
#146 |
| -
no. they charge all us a brazillion more to cover that noncollected fee? so RAISE the tax on city |
seabeyond |
Oct-08-10 05:39 AM |
#166 |
| -
It's property damage. |
LiberalAndProud |
Oct-08-10 02:47 AM |
#157 |
| -
The "duress" point is COMPLETELY inapplicable. |
BzaDem |
Oct-08-10 03:03 AM |
#158 |
| -
prove it. prove a judge wont say, the emotional stress at the time the house was burning |
seabeyond |
Oct-08-10 05:42 AM |
#167 |
| -
any time there is a fire like this people's lives are in danger. |
Bluerthanblue |
Oct-08-10 08:43 AM |
#175 |
| -
which hospital is it in which ER admittees not covered by insurance, private pay or |
Hannah Bell |
Oct-07-10 11:16 PM |
#99 |
| -
That's my point. You are perfectly fine with there being SOME services where help is given and only |
BzaDem |
Oct-07-10 11:29 PM |
#109 |
| -
I lost a paid for home to fire in 1973.. |
Fumesucker |
Oct-07-10 11:33 PM |
#114 |
| -
Someone with personal experience can't simultaneously be wrong? n/t |
BzaDem |
Oct-07-10 11:46 PM |
#121 |
| -
My point is I understand what it's like to lose a home.. |
Fumesucker |
Oct-07-10 11:51 PM |
#124 |
| -
I never said otherwise. |
BzaDem |
Oct-07-10 11:54 PM |
#127 |
| -
Sure, if those who are being taxed pay more... |
Fumesucker |
Oct-08-10 12:09 AM |
#137 |
| -
not when the county has repeatedly voted not to fund fire service though it can afford to do so, no. |
Hannah Bell |
Oct-07-10 11:43 PM |
#117 |
| -
LMAO |
JustAmused |
Oct-08-10 12:24 AM |
#144 |
| -
not only all the answer.... but see how simple it all is. gee, why didnt the municipals figure |
seabeyond |
Oct-08-10 05:46 AM |
#168 |
| -
It's one of those situations that fractures across the grain of the usual politics.. |
Fumesucker |
Oct-07-10 10:53 PM |
#63 |
| -
Would it be rational for ERs to simply stop accepting all comers, for the same reasons as the FD? |
BzaDem |
Oct-07-10 10:56 PM |
#66 |
| -
What if the FD had simply not come to the scene? |
Fumesucker |
Oct-07-10 10:59 PM |
#72 |
| -
The FD should have come to the scene if ANYONE called, including the original homeowner. |
BzaDem |
Oct-07-10 11:02 PM |
#75 |
| -
That sounds like a good plan.. |
Fumesucker |
Oct-07-10 11:04 PM |
#82 |
| -
You can keep misrepresenting my position, but that doesn't make it my position. |
BzaDem |
Oct-07-10 11:08 PM |
#87 |
| -
The practical effect will be that the taxpayers of S Fulton will experience higher rates.. |
Fumesucker |
Oct-07-10 11:15 PM |
#98 |
| -
No, that would not be the practical effect. Non-subscribers who pay one-time costs would pay more. |
BzaDem |
Oct-07-10 11:22 PM |
#103 |
| -
Over half of non subscribers in Obion county who utilize fire protection pay nothing .. |
Fumesucker |
Oct-07-10 11:28 PM |
#108 |
| -
They can sue those who pay nothing, and if they can't recoup the legal fees |
BzaDem |
Oct-07-10 11:30 PM |
#110 |
| -
If they can do so then why haven't they? |
Fumesucker |
Oct-07-10 11:35 PM |
#115 |
| -
Comparing an ER to a fire when no human lives were at stake |
Confusious |
Oct-07-10 11:14 PM |
#97 |
| -
I never said life and homes are equivalent. I just said the situations are analogous. |
BzaDem |
Oct-07-10 11:33 PM |
#112 |
| -
An analogy assumes equivalence |
Confusious |
Oct-08-10 01:53 AM |
#150 |
| -
They won't have to pay more in taxes, because the homeowner offered to pay thousands of dollars |
BzaDem |
Oct-08-10 02:04 AM |
#151 |
| -
So I suppose any person employed by a city |
Confusious |
Oct-08-10 02:11 AM |
#152 |
| -
The fire department could EASILY have the dispatcher over the phone enter into |
BzaDem |
Oct-08-10 02:15 AM |
#153 |
| -
You seem to be trying to twist my words |
Confusious |
Oct-08-10 02:23 AM |
#154 |
| -
The dispatcher records all calls. It would be very simple. But EVEN if we assume for the sake of |
BzaDem |
Oct-08-10 02:31 AM |
#155 |
| -
The dispatcher records the verbal agreement |
Confusious |
Oct-08-10 03:28 AM |
#159 |
| -
everything is so simple for you as it escalate in such complexity and all in verbal contract |
seabeyond |
Oct-08-10 05:53 AM |
#169 |
| -
When an ambulance makes an emergency run there is a charge for it. |
TexasObserver |
Oct-08-10 03:47 AM |
#161 |
| -
Well explain to me this then |
Confusious |
Oct-08-10 03:54 AM |
#162 |
| -
The fact you & I are agreeing on something - given our history - is very telling of how deep across |
apocalypsehow |
Oct-07-10 10:58 PM |
#69 |
| -
all the people i am agreeing |
seabeyond |
Oct-07-10 11:02 PM |
#76 |
| -
Ain't it wild? LOL - I feel the exact same way. I almost expect to hear Rod Serling narrating... |
apocalypsehow |
Oct-07-10 11:10 PM |
#92 |
| -
It is really weird, I agree. |
distantearlywarning |
Oct-08-10 08:43 AM |
#176 |
| -
maybe |
seabeyond |
Oct-08-10 08:49 AM |
#177 |
| -
81... |
HuckleB |
Oct-07-10 10:46 PM |
#56 |
| -
Everyone should be charged $1 per post. |
Renew Deal |
Oct-07-10 10:59 PM |
#71 |
| -
Not if the army was sent to Afghanistan.. |
Fumesucker |
Oct-07-10 11:02 PM |
#77 |
| -
no no really... i did laugh out loud on this one. lol. cute. but send it to orphange fund |
seabeyond |
Oct-07-10 11:04 PM |
#81 |
| -
Very good point. Either put up or shut up |
BrentWil |
Oct-07-10 11:02 PM |
#78 |
| -
Yes, that sounds like a good idea. |
sabrina 1 |
Oct-07-10 11:07 PM |
#84 |
| -
This is not for the Cranicks.. |
Fumesucker |
Oct-07-10 11:10 PM |
#91 |
| -
Whatever, if it's helping people, fine. I am for supporting 'the common |
sabrina 1 |
Oct-07-10 11:21 PM |
#101 |
| -
Then you are saying you will contribute to a fund to help Obion county establish a FD? |
Fumesucker |
Oct-07-10 11:24 PM |
#105 |
| -
We have always contributed to our own volunteer FD. Why would I not want to |
sabrina 1 |
Oct-08-10 01:51 AM |
#149 |
| -
ya, cause really this guy has absolutely no ownership in his fuck up.... it is all everyone elses |
seabeyond |
Oct-07-10 11:10 PM |
#93 |
| -
It isn't about him. It's about a failed system that was thrown |
sabrina 1 |
Oct-07-10 11:19 PM |
#100 |
| -
Huh? Roads are mostly paid for with user taxes. nt |
DURHAM D |
Oct-07-10 11:27 PM |
#107 |
| -
These SErvices should be provided by the Govt through tax collection |
JI7 |
Oct-07-10 11:54 PM |
#128 |
| -
This is the type of shit Freepers support |
JI7 |
Oct-07-10 11:57 PM |
#131 |
| -
DU should take up a collection |
Gormy Cuss |
Oct-08-10 12:08 AM |
#135 |
| -
Haven't you noticed the fact that people who normally mostly agree are disagreeing.. |
Fumesucker |
Oct-08-10 12:22 AM |
#142 |
| -
What I've noticed is too many people who are focused on punishing Cranick |
Gormy Cuss |
Oct-08-10 10:10 AM |
#179 |
| -
then, respectfully, you dont notice well. you are making assumptions. |
seabeyond |
Oct-08-10 10:19 AM |
#180 |
| -
Oh, I see those posts too. |
Gormy Cuss |
Oct-08-10 10:34 AM |
#182 |
| -
yes... to your whole post. and yes... |
seabeyond |
Oct-08-10 10:37 AM |
#183 |
| -
Agreed. The individual is irrelevant to this issue. |
TexasObserver |
Oct-08-10 10:45 AM |
#186 |
| -
So you don't think Ayn Rand County should have a fire department? |
thelordofhell |
Oct-08-10 12:13 AM |
#138 |
| -
No, I think they should definitely have an FD.. |
Fumesucker |
Oct-08-10 12:19 AM |
#141 |
| -
I will not give one penny to Ayn Rand County |
thelordofhell |
Oct-08-10 01:01 AM |
#148 |
| -
Not just no. Hell no. |
adamuu |
Oct-08-10 02:36 AM |
#156 |
| -
Burn baby Burn!!!!! n/t |
JTFrog |
Oct-08-10 03:46 AM |
#160 |
| -
I'd rather take a collection to have it bulldozed so I never have to hear about it again. |
HEyHEY |
Oct-08-10 04:14 AM |
#163 |
| -
Then, why not take up collections for those in foreclosure or unable to pay for health premiums? |
DailyGrind51 |
Oct-08-10 06:31 AM |
#170 |
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these people arent in need. they dont want to foot the bill for their protection. not about need |
seabeyond |
Oct-08-10 07:39 AM |
#171 |
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Satire alert. |
WinkyDink |
Oct-08-10 07:42 AM |
#172 |
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If people want to donate, cool. |
bigwillq |
Oct-08-10 08:02 AM |
#173 |
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Just make fires illegal and arrest them on sight. QED |
RedCloud |
Oct-08-10 08:56 AM |
#178 |
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I am thrilled I still had time to unrec this bullshit! |
joeybee12 |
Oct-08-10 10:20 AM |
#181 |
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Help me out here |
JNelson6563 |
Oct-08-10 10:40 AM |
#184 |
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No, but we should have a fundraiser to fight OCD. |
TexasObserver |
Oct-08-10 10:43 AM |
#185 |
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