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Reply #13: Exactly. It's not any one thing [View All]

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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-26-10 03:33 PM
Response to Reply #12
13. Exactly. It's not any one thing
But there are models that address ALL aspects of successful schools and can be used in transforming failing schools. I really don't understand the opposition.
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  -Something that has been missing from all of these discussions about education reform: bad parenting bluestateguy  Sep-26-10 03:05 PM   #0 
  - parents income is the factor which most closely correlates with school performance.  Hannah Bell   Sep-26-10 03:06 PM   #1 
  - Same with Lower Income and Alchohol and Drug Abuse rates  FreakinDJ   Sep-26-10 03:18 PM   #9 
  - my point is that if you want the "underclass" to have the same results the middle or upper classes  Hannah Bell   Sep-26-10 03:21 PM   #10 
     - You do homage to your avatar  izquierdista   Sep-26-10 03:57 PM   #21 
     - i think you're guilty of vast overgeneralization.  Hannah Bell   Sep-26-10 09:55 PM   #110 
     - Most of the time they are further handicapped by poorer school districts  MajorChode   Sep-26-10 06:49 PM   #94 
     - spending money on hiring others to "help" the poor is a sop to the middle class, &  Hannah Bell   Sep-27-10 04:23 AM   #114 
        - It's a mute point to begin with  MajorChode   Sep-27-10 04:35 AM   #116 
           - moot  AngryAmish   Sep-27-10 11:41 AM   #145 
           - Thanx  MajorChode   Sep-27-10 12:50 PM   #149 
           - issues  donquijoterocket   Sep-27-10 02:23 PM   #158 
     - Correct ... these children/parents and communities are impoverished ....  defendandprotect   Sep-27-10 02:24 PM   #159 
  - Because of what I teach, I get to keep my kids for several years  proud2BlibKansan   Sep-26-10 03:29 PM   #11 
     - I wish I could K&R your post.  auntAgonist   Sep-26-10 04:18 PM   #27 
     - +1 n/t  lumberjack_jeff   Sep-27-10 11:34 AM   #142 
  - Well parents aren't employed by school districts  proud2BlibKansan   Sep-26-10 03:12 PM   #2 
  - reality? all the changes, all the fixes come to not when a child does NOT want to learn. nt  seabeyond   Sep-26-10 03:15 PM   #4 
  - ALL children want to learn  sandnsea   Sep-26-10 03:35 PM   #14 
     - are you mad!!! no, many children, more and more do NOT wnat to learn  seabeyond   Sep-26-10 04:22 PM   #30 
        - That is pure crap  sandnsea   Sep-26-10 04:29 PM   #35 
        - no. head start and young, one of the best programs that is being cut, is a time kids will learn.  seabeyond   Sep-26-10 04:34 PM   # 
        - If schools haven't laid the foundation  sandnsea   Sep-26-10 04:38 PM   #39 
           - my youngest couldnt get multiplication memorized for anything. a couple years  seabeyond   Sep-26-10 05:49 PM   #59 
              - here's some books for ou  mzteris   Sep-26-10 06:38 PM   #85 
                 - i read a mind at a time for my oldest.  seabeyond   Sep-26-10 06:43 PM   #90 
        - i teach in high school  reggie the dog   Sep-27-10 04:33 AM   #115 
        - Perhaps with older children, but younger kids always want to learn and that passion  uncommon   Sep-27-10 10:46 AM   #124 
           - i am referring to the older student that has the ability and desire to mae own decisions  seabeyond   Sep-27-10 11:08 AM   #133 
  - but if that kid scores low on his tests, YOU are held responsible  Gin   Sep-26-10 03:17 PM   #8 
  - You could have a system where better rated parents get first choice of good schools.  JVS   Sep-26-10 04:38 PM   #38 
     - How do you rate them?  proud2BlibKansan   Sep-26-10 04:59 PM   #45 
     - This would amount to sending kids who are already horribly disadvantaged to the shittiest schools  uncommon   Sep-27-10 10:50 AM   #127 
  - exactly. right on. truth. nt  seabeyond   Sep-26-10 03:15 PM   #3 
  - Stop it Right Now with the Reality Check  FreakinDJ   Sep-26-10 03:16 PM   #5 
  - Teachers always blame the parents  sandnsea   Sep-26-10 03:17 PM   #6 
  - You really mean to say that parents do not have any responsibility  Curmudgeoness   Sep-26-10 03:47 PM   #17 
  - Love how people distort what I say  sandnsea   Sep-26-10 04:34 PM   #37 
     - I did not distort what you said. I focussed on what you said  Curmudgeoness   Sep-26-10 05:41 PM   #53 
        - you know what hapens when my kids gets a "bad" teacher, or teacher whose style is contradictive to  seabeyond   Sep-26-10 05:44 PM   #55 
        - Wow. That's the exact wrong thing to do  sandnsea   Sep-26-10 06:46 PM   #93 
           - and my kids can deal with any particular teacher and continue to be successful  seabeyond   Sep-26-10 07:14 PM   #102 
              - Well clearly no they can't  sandnsea   Sep-26-10 08:29 PM   #106 
                 - i have had this kid tested at about 4, 6 and 8. i have had from regular doctor to allergy  seabeyond   Sep-26-10 08:44 PM   #107 
        - I said "It's not the parents"  sandnsea   Sep-26-10 06:55 PM   #97 
           - The beginning of this thread "Teachers always blame the parents".  Curmudgeoness   Sep-26-10 08:24 PM   #105 
  - the kids with ''bad'' parents don't go to charter schools  yurbud   Sep-26-10 04:24 PM   #31 
  - It's definitely a factor.  H2O Man   Sep-26-10 03:17 PM   #7 
  - Why do these discussions always begin with a scapegoat and work backward to a rationale?  EFerrari   Sep-26-10 03:31 PM   #12 
  - Exactly. It's not any one thing  sandnsea   Sep-26-10 03:33 PM   #13 
  - What I don't hear in this discussion is how the family  waiting for hope   Sep-26-10 03:59 PM   #22 
  - Your post is very accurate. Everyone is doing the best they can, an unfortunatly  Pisces   Sep-26-10 04:18 PM   #28 
  - i agree with both your posts. nt  seabeyond   Sep-26-10 04:28 PM   #33 
  - I've long thought that this nuclear family stuff  EFerrari   Sep-26-10 05:51 PM   #63 
  - +1  lumberjack_jeff   Sep-26-10 04:09 PM   #26 
  - they PARENT is the childs ADVOCATE. the parent is the front line. the parent is the ultimate  seabeyond   Sep-26-10 04:24 PM   #32 
     - That's not true  etherealtruth   Sep-26-10 05:33 PM   #51 
     - some of those kids will make it. many of those kids will not.  seabeyond   Sep-26-10 05:42 PM   #54 
     - All kids are "education material" ... not all kids are interested in college  etherealtruth   Sep-26-10 06:00 PM   #72 
        - plumber, mechanic, landscape business.... lots of professions out there  seabeyond   Sep-26-10 06:05 PM   #74 
        - I really don't buy the notion that everyone is "education material."  Codeine   Sep-26-10 06:24 PM   #80 
           - agree, again. and that is cool. it is ok. i mean, there has to be a below.... in average.  seabeyond   Sep-26-10 06:35 PM   #84 
           - Exactly.  Codeine   Sep-26-10 06:40 PM   #88 
           - ...and the dumb are not worthy of an education?  etherealtruth   Sep-26-10 06:39 PM   #87 
              - I mean college-level stuff.  Codeine   Sep-26-10 06:42 PM   #89 
                 - I think my post clearly stated that not everyone could or should be university bound  etherealtruth   Sep-26-10 06:50 PM   #95 
                    - You'll get no argument from me.  Codeine   Sep-26-10 06:55 PM   #96 
                       - Oh God ... I'm sorry  etherealtruth   Sep-26-10 07:01 PM   #99 
     - Amen - I had a terrible childhood and family life and excelled in school.  uncommon   Sep-27-10 11:35 AM   #143 
     - Yes, when you start with a conclusion and work backwards  EFerrari   Sep-26-10 05:45 PM   #57 
        - is it an all or nothing? are you suggesting all kids that fail have bad parents? all kids that  seabeyond   Sep-26-10 05:51 PM   #62 
           - No, lol, I'm suggesting nothing of the sort.  EFerrari   Sep-26-10 05:53 PM   #66 
  - I agree parent involvement/encouragement is a big part -  TBF   Sep-26-10 03:44 PM   #15 
  - +1. nt  seabeyond   Sep-26-10 04:29 PM   #34 
  - divorce, single parenting, and both parents working have changed the ball game  yurbud   Sep-26-10 03:44 PM   #16 
  - We have no control over parents. And we can't give up on a child because his/her  DevonRex   Sep-26-10 03:52 PM   #18 
  - it isnt "give" up. no we have no control, it doesnt change the fact, without the parent  seabeyond   Sep-26-10 04:31 PM   #36 
  - Children may want to learn but not necessarily  eilen   Sep-26-10 05:07 PM   #46 
  - I have always thought that we should have some control  Curmudgeoness   Sep-26-10 06:24 PM   #81 
  - Maybe we should pay the parents instead?  stray cat   Sep-26-10 03:54 PM   #19 
  - One thing every one seems to miss also is the disruptions  Bitwit1234   Sep-26-10 03:57 PM   #20 
  - No it does not happen all over the place  sandnsea   Sep-26-10 04:43 PM   #42 
     - It doesn't happen in the suburbs. nt  eilen   Sep-26-10 05:09 PM   #47 
        - I live in rural America  sandnsea   Sep-26-10 05:15 PM   #48 
  - This issue has been raised that is why the SEED charter is set up like a boarding school  Pisces   Sep-26-10 04:00 PM   #23 
  - There are always going to be variables beyond your control.  woo me with science   Sep-26-10 04:04 PM   #24 
  - I'm not the OP, but I'll bite.  LWolf   Sep-26-10 04:21 PM   #29 
     - Beautiful post. n/t  YvonneCa   Sep-26-10 06:09 PM   #75 
  - Seriously? You come around here much?  lumberjack_jeff   Sep-26-10 04:08 PM   #25 
  - "bad parents" don't need accountability measures. they need  mopinko   Sep-26-10 04:39 PM   #40 
  - I am in favor of driving a wedge between a parent and a child  proud2BlibKansan   Sep-26-10 04:57 PM   #43 
  - A brave statement.  Codeine   Sep-26-10 06:44 PM   #91 
  - those children belong in the family courts.  mopinko   Sep-26-10 06:58 PM   #98 
  - a lot of them don't need support, they need a kick in the pants.,,  Ex Lurker   Sep-26-10 05:50 PM   #61 
  - And you'll never convince the useless assholes that they're wrong. nt  Codeine   Sep-26-10 06:45 PM   #92 
  - I agree parents need support, but do you realize that what little they do get is often...  YvonneCa   Sep-26-10 06:12 PM   #76 
  - And I'll add a problem that most seem to totally ignore - drugs...  silverlib   Sep-26-10 04:43 PM   #41 
  - Too true. I watched a lot of my classmates become really shitty students  Codeine   Sep-26-10 06:31 PM   #83 
  - Deleted message  Name removed   Sep-26-10 04:59 PM   #44 
  - And how do you explain my situation, I value nothing higher than education  Duer 157099   Sep-26-10 05:17 PM   #49 
  - without snark... is it the teachers fault? now what?  seabeyond   Sep-26-10 05:37 PM   #52 
  - How could it be "the teachers fault"?  Duer 157099   Sep-26-10 05:46 PM   #58 
     - i agree with you. nt  seabeyond   Sep-26-10 05:53 PM   #67 
     - Maybe it has to do with the fact...  YvonneCa   Sep-26-10 06:15 PM   #77 
        - Maybe. But after observing him for 16 years, I have come to believe  Duer 157099   Sep-26-10 06:17 PM   #78 
        - I have a grandson like that...  YvonneCa   Sep-26-10 06:24 PM   #79 
        - yes. and an environment both my sons fight against, were stupid is cool  seabeyond   Sep-26-10 06:38 PM   #86 
  - People don't like to accept that some folks are just downright unteachable.  Codeine   Sep-26-10 06:28 PM   #82 
  - I just think all these ideas - while accurate -  cilla4progress   Sep-26-10 05:32 PM   #50 
  - OUR CULTURE JUST DOES NOT VALUE ITS CHILDREN ENOUGH.  seabeyond   Sep-26-10 05:45 PM   #56 
     - When I see a drug abusing mother who couldn't care less about her child's education...  bik0   Sep-26-10 07:35 PM   #103 
        - i will go with that too.  seabeyond   Sep-26-10 07:48 PM   #104 
        - Completely separate issues.  cilla4progress   Sep-27-10 10:20 AM   #117 
           - a lot. and looking at the reason is a good thing. if we can help society as a whole  seabeyond   Sep-27-10 10:22 AM   #118 
           - I don't believe there are "a lot"  cilla4progress   Sep-27-10 10:55 AM   #130 
              - there are a lot. but then i am not claiming that is the only issue.  seabeyond   Sep-27-10 11:10 AM   #134 
                 - Whew - I think we have found our common ground, then!  cilla4progress   Sep-27-10 11:33 AM   #141 
           - Not a generalization... I said when I see "a mother" (singular)...  bik0   Sep-27-10 02:36 PM   #160 
  - Bad parents don't want to hear it/won't listen  Taitertots   Sep-26-10 05:50 PM   #60 
  - How about the REAL third rail;  Codeine   Sep-26-10 05:52 PM   #64 
  - +1. ok, not a chance i would use your adjectives, but.....  seabeyond   Sep-26-10 05:58 PM   #70 
  - I really do have a potty mouth.  Codeine   Sep-26-10 05:59 PM   #71 
  - Andrew Breitbart to a tee. eom  Hello_Kitty   Sep-26-10 09:13 PM   #108 
  - this is why every teacher I know has quit the public system  Sen. Walter Sobchak   Sep-26-10 05:52 PM   #65 
  - It would take a very short amount of time for that to cause me to....  Taitertots   Sep-26-10 05:55 PM   #68 
  - Most of them held out for years,  Sen. Walter Sobchak   Sep-27-10 01:18 AM   #112 
  - Parents eager to excuse any behavior and defend the most horrible  Codeine   Sep-26-10 05:56 PM   #69 
     - i watch it. both brothers with their kids. and then they blame the teacher.  seabeyond   Sep-26-10 06:02 PM   #73 
     - And those kids grow up to be helpless and exploitive young adults.  Hello_Kitty   Sep-26-10 07:06 PM   #101 
     - The cursing parent wasn't looking to excuse the students behavior  Sen. Walter Sobchak   Sep-27-10 01:14 AM   #111 
  - WHAT?!? ARE YOU INSANE?  Confusious   Sep-26-10 07:02 PM   #100 
  - The students in my wife's kindergarten class or mostly from single unwed mothers...  bik0   Sep-26-10 09:49 PM   #109 
  - While teenagers having children is not desirable, I would not be so quick to  uncommon   Sep-27-10 10:57 AM   #131 
     - You left out "young"... that's a big piece of the problem...  bik0   Sep-27-10 02:57 PM   #161 
  - One of my mother's cousins began teaching high school in the 1950s and  Lydia Leftcoast   Sep-27-10 01:25 AM   #113 
  - Boys are 33% less likely to go to college than girls. Are parents only failing sons?  lumberjack_jeff   Sep-27-10 10:33 AM   #119 
  - we have talked about it before. there are things our boys need today  seabeyond   Sep-27-10 10:34 AM   #120 
  - Boys embrace dumb as cool because they have to...  lumberjack_jeff   Sep-27-10 10:39 AM   #121 
     - You think girls don't?  uncommon   Sep-27-10 10:58 AM   #132 
     - There's dumb and then there's faux dumb.  lumberjack_jeff   Sep-27-10 11:14 AM   #135 
     - yes, most of the girls that i see play dumb, also do their studies and dont get behind to where  seabeyond   Sep-27-10 11:20 AM   #138 
     - and then the young girls. my niece and her friend, well shit... both nieces  seabeyond   Sep-27-10 11:18 AM   #137 
     - my son saw it in middle school. dumb became cool, not learning was hip. it pissed him off  seabeyond   Sep-27-10 11:17 AM   #136 
  - my boyfriend is a middle-aged ex-military who teaches behavior problems  w8liftinglady   Sep-27-10 10:47 AM   #125 
     - Yes, self respect and someone to identify with. +1 n/t  lumberjack_jeff   Sep-27-10 10:51 AM   #129 
     - yes yes yes yes YES YES YES..  seabeyond   Sep-27-10 11:22 AM   #139 
  - Amen to that. However,  uncommon   Sep-27-10 10:40 AM   #122 
  - +1 n/t  lumberjack_jeff   Sep-27-10 10:41 AM   #123 
  - but... regardless of what the schools try, and they are aware of this, they fail  seabeyond   Sep-27-10 11:23 AM   #140 
     - Not true - I was an excellent student - top percentiles across the board - and my parents  uncommon   Sep-27-10 11:36 AM   #144 
        - few children do, and rah for them. i mean that sincerely. but that is not the odds.  seabeyond   Sep-27-10 11:52 AM   #146 
           - There have been numerous studies showing that preschool/head start gains do not  uncommon   Sep-27-10 11:56 AM   #147 
              - sigh... sure. that is the issue that so many are talking.  seabeyond   Sep-27-10 12:26 PM   #148 
                 - That was incoherent.  uncommon   Sep-27-10 12:55 PM   #150 
                    - yes you said that. the odds are against them. some can achieve. many cannot  seabeyond   Sep-27-10 01:24 PM   #151 
                    - btw.... i am really glad to hear  seabeyond   Sep-27-10 01:29 PM   #152 
                       - It's not easy -  uncommon   Sep-27-10 02:11 PM   #154 
  - I think if we were honest about how to manage both bad parents and bad teachers  izzybeans   Sep-27-10 10:48 AM   #126 
  - Parenting. Exactly the problem in Los Angeles  flamingdem   Sep-27-10 10:51 AM   #128 
  - We have a national culture that does not respect knowledge or its acquisition.  Skidmore   Sep-27-10 02:07 PM   #153 
  - I wish I could recommend your post  nadinbrzezinski   Sep-27-10 02:14 PM   #155 
  - My cat's breath smells like cat food.  flvegan   Sep-27-10 02:17 PM   #156 
  - That's where I saw the Leprchaun. He tells me to burn things! n/t  lumberjack_jeff   Sep-27-10 10:27 PM   #162 
  - And we have "bad parenting" because .... ????? I'm sure parents want to harm their children--!!!  defendandprotect   Sep-27-10 02:22 PM   #157 
  - No, not bad parenting. Economic inequality.  alarimer   Sep-27-10 10:32 PM   #163 

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