pa28
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Mon Sep-20-10 10:10 PM
Response to Reply #48 |
| 53. I'm not sure I want to embrace the idea of having entitlements and "entitlements". |
|
The people who populate this board are thinkers and readers for the most part who are capable of digesting the nuance. Unfortunately the Republicans are very good using words as tools and applying them for a visceral effect despite what the dictionary might say.
Frank Luntz has made a career of finding words with maximum emotional impact and if you check in on his work as a pundit he has a special fondness for the word "entitlements".
I have nearly 20 years of principle in the SS system and calling it anything less than savings is opening the door to have that equity stripped IMO.
|
| -Social Security is not an Entitlement! |
MannyGoldstein |
Sep-20-10 08:08 PM |
#0 |
 -
K&R |
Cleita |
Sep-20-10 08:12 PM |
#1 |
| -
That's an entitlement. |
rucky |
Sep-20-10 08:12 PM |
#2 |
 -
agreed. it's just one of those many good words republicans say with a sneer so often |
unblock |
Sep-20-10 08:19 PM |
#8 |
 -
They are misusing the word, not you. |
AtheistCrusader |
Sep-21-10 11:09 AM |
#104 |
| -
Unfortunately the money in Social Security has been replaced by IOU's |
NorthCarolina |
Sep-20-10 09:18 PM |
#40 |
| -
Those IOUs are also known as "Treasury Bills" |
MannyGoldstein |
Sep-20-10 09:27 PM |
#43 |
| -
The Chinese own T-bills and notes |
customerserviceguy |
Sep-21-10 05:53 PM |
#155 |
| -
It was be disasterous to the economy |
TxVietVet |
Sep-21-10 07:11 PM |
#161 |
| -
"Special Issue Securities" not T-Bills |
PoliticAverse |
Sep-21-10 07:55 PM |
#166 |
| -
Well it's not optional. n/t |
eShirl |
Sep-20-10 09:55 PM |
#52 |
| -
Read post # 43. nt |
Enthusiast |
Sep-21-10 09:22 AM |
#80 |
| -
But like the word 'liberal', entitlement |
Enthusiast |
Sep-21-10 09:20 AM |
#79 |
| -
Isn't SS really |
femrap |
Sep-21-10 12:36 PM |
#115 |
| -
Whatever it is called, |
Enthusiast |
Sep-22-10 06:56 AM |
#172 |
| -
I have no doubt of |
femrap |
Sep-22-10 09:34 AM |
#173 |
| -
Yes, it is tangible...nt |
Enthusiast |
Sep-22-10 09:40 AM |
#174 |
| -
"Entitlement" is a Republican frame. |
JDPriestly |
Sep-21-10 03:40 PM |
#131 |
| -
The conservanazis like to use the word "entitlements" to define |
TxVietVet |
Sep-21-10 07:15 PM |
#163 |
| -
Agreed. nt |
TBF |
Sep-20-10 08:15 PM |
#3 |
| -
It's a pension plan WE pay for! |
Mimosa |
Sep-20-10 08:15 PM |
#4 |
| -
Holy moley! Even this gets un-reced |
MannyGoldstein |
Sep-20-10 08:16 PM |
#5 |
| -
Don't worry I recced it back up. |
kenfrequed |
Sep-21-10 08:08 AM |
#71 |
| -
"Entitlement" isn't a bad word, IMHO. We ARE entitled to it because |
pnwmom |
Sep-20-10 08:18 PM |
#6 |
| -
Many who are alive today will collect 2-3 times what they put in |
PeaceNikki |
Sep-20-10 08:18 PM |
#7 |
| -
Most people don't get that. |
ProSense |
Sep-20-10 08:25 PM |
#17 |
| -
Some people die before they collect anything at all... |
JuniperLea |
Sep-20-10 08:43 PM |
#23 |
| -
thats the price they pay being undocumented workers |
BigD_95 |
Sep-21-10 01:45 PM |
#126 |
| -
You don't contribute to pay for yourself. You pay for those collecting now... |
Fearless |
Sep-20-10 08:58 PM |
#35 |
| -
That's true, but |
ProSense |
Sep-20-10 09:06 PM |
#37 |
| -
It is a government debt based on a contract the government made |
JDPriestly |
Sep-21-10 04:01 PM |
#134 |
| -
Fleming vs Nestor, SS is not an enforceable contract |
PoliticAverse |
Sep-21-10 07:26 PM |
#165 |
| -
Not the first time the Supreme Court was wrong. |
JDPriestly |
Sep-22-10 01:07 AM |
#170 |
| -
Unfortunately since 1983 that is not how the plan has been |
exboyfil |
Sep-21-10 12:54 AM |
#62 |
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Right on! nt |
Enthusiast |
Sep-21-10 09:25 AM |
#83 |
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Sure they do...It is a part of their income they don't see, their employer puts it in for them.. |
Toots |
Sep-21-10 08:23 AM |
#72 |
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But the money's worth a whole lot less by the time they get it. |
freedom fighter jh |
Sep-21-10 09:36 AM |
#85 |
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that's not a fair comparison |
hfojvt |
Sep-21-10 10:53 AM |
#96 |
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hojvt, your post is shortsighted. |
JDPriestly |
Sep-21-10 04:21 PM |
#135 |
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Your figuring leaves out a few things |
dixiegrrrrl |
Sep-21-10 04:29 PM |
#140 |
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put 300-400 in monthly for 40 years, collect 1200 monthly for 12 years. |
RaleighNCDUer |
Sep-21-10 10:59 AM |
#99 |
| -
yes he does... |
awoke_in_2003 |
Sep-21-10 05:33 PM |
#152 |
| -
you sure as fuck don't get what SS is about ..or you don't give a damn about fucking anyone as long |
flyarm |
Sep-21-10 03:42 PM |
#132 |
| -
A Coke used to cost a nickel. |
JDPriestly |
Sep-21-10 03:53 PM |
#133 |
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Really? You aren't leaving much room for inflation are you? |
juajen |
Sep-21-10 06:18 PM |
#157 |
| -
And many will die before collecting one red cent... |
JuniperLea |
Sep-20-10 08:42 PM |
#22 |
| -
So how do you avoid that? |
ProSense |
Sep-20-10 08:45 PM |
#26 |
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It's a risk, no question... |
JuniperLea |
Sep-20-10 08:49 PM |
#28 |
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I get that. |
PeaceNikki |
Sep-20-10 08:48 PM |
#27 |
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But that's not the same thing... |
JuniperLea |
Sep-20-10 08:50 PM |
#29 |
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Thank you for your common sense answer. |
truedelphi |
Sep-20-10 09:09 PM |
#39 |
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One of my parents died in his early 60s. The other is still |
JDPriestly |
Sep-21-10 04:25 PM |
#137 |
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After accounting for interest? |
MannyGoldstein |
Sep-20-10 08:44 PM |
#24 |
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Good call... |
JuniperLea |
Sep-20-10 08:51 PM |
#30 |
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Most definitely |
ProSense |
Sep-20-10 08:55 PM |
#34 |
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Link please? |
MannyGoldstein |
Sep-20-10 09:01 PM |
#36 |
| -
Social Security |
ProSense |
Sep-20-10 09:18 PM |
#41 |
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I don't get your point |
MannyGoldstein |
Sep-20-10 11:23 PM |
#56 |
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Not even close to the truth. |
W_HAMILTON |
Sep-21-10 06:05 AM |
#67 |
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True. It isn't a pension plan. |
Radical Activist |
Sep-20-10 10:19 PM |
#55 |
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If you pay into a property insurance policy, you may receive far more |
JDPriestly |
Sep-21-10 04:26 PM |
#138 |
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and many will not. perhaps the problem is you don't get it. |
Hannah Bell |
Sep-20-10 11:42 PM |
#59 |
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I get it. Don't act like I am some right-wing asshole, ok? |
PeaceNikki |
Sep-20-10 11:45 PM |
#60 |
| -
my error, then. |
Hannah Bell |
Sep-20-10 11:47 PM |
#61 |
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Do you have any evidence for this assertion? |
Greyhound |
Sep-21-10 01:23 AM |
#64 |
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So if you invest in stocks and get 2-3 times the return someday is that an entitlement too? |
harun |
Sep-21-10 07:44 AM |
#70 |
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bullcrap..many generations we paid for that never paid into it or paid very little into it |
flyarm |
Sep-21-10 03:38 PM |
#130 |
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True. Baby boomers paid in more because it is believed that |
JDPriestly |
Sep-21-10 04:31 PM |
#141 |
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And please do not forget those elected in our government that were equally responsible,In Both |
flyarm |
Sep-21-10 09:52 PM |
#168 |
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I am entitled to my wages and that includes social security - politicians don't call their pensions |
stray cat |
Sep-20-10 08:19 PM |
#9 |
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The pensions and health insurance of politicians are government and tax funded entitlements |
stray cat |
Sep-20-10 08:20 PM |
#12 |
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Exactly... |
JuniperLea |
Sep-20-10 08:52 PM |
#31 |
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Don't accept their definition of entitlement. |
glitch |
Sep-20-10 08:19 PM |
#10 |
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Exactly!!! I paid into it for over 50 F'en years. One half century!!! I am so so so pissed with |
RKP5637 |
Sep-20-10 08:20 PM |
#11 |
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I'm afraid I'm going to end up just where you are now. |
pa28 |
Sep-21-10 12:55 AM |
#63 |
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I had one R tell me "what would we do if the really wealthy took their money |
RKP5637 |
Sep-21-10 10:11 AM |
#92 |
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The banks just don't want your generation to have a secure |
JDPriestly |
Sep-21-10 04:34 PM |
#142 |
| -
It's an entitlement program |
ProSense |
Sep-20-10 08:20 PM |
#13 |
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Like the estate tax that the GOP calls so evil? I pay into disability |
stray cat |
Sep-20-10 08:21 PM |
#14 |
| -
You also pay into unemployment |
ProSense |
Sep-20-10 08:29 PM |
#19 |
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Employers pay for unemployment insurance, not employees. |
W_HAMILTON |
Sep-21-10 06:10 AM |
#68 |
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That varies by state n/t |
eggman67 |
Sep-21-10 09:30 AM |
#84 |
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Please explain... |
W_HAMILTON |
Sep-21-10 09:36 AM |
#86 |
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Excerpt from ProSense's Social Security (and Unemployment )Link |
MikeMc |
Sep-21-10 10:23 AM |
#94 |
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What point are you making exactly? |
ProSense |
Sep-21-10 01:06 PM |
#119 |
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Sorry Pro, didn't try to be disagreeable. |
MikeMc |
Sep-21-10 06:46 PM |
#158 |
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Pennsylvania, for one |
eggman67 |
Sep-21-10 02:56 PM |
#127 |
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You have a strangely egotistical view of the world, ProSense. |
JDPriestly |
Sep-21-10 04:40 PM |
#143 |
| -
That's a tiny bit of it. |
MannyGoldstein |
Sep-20-10 08:45 PM |
#25 |
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If you're retired and drawing ss, you get no money from ss for a child |
juajen |
Sep-21-10 07:14 PM |
#162 |
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Oh come on now. Hannity pretty much told me its welfare for old people you know. |
MichiganVote |
Sep-20-10 08:22 PM |
#15 |
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As a self-employed person |
catrose |
Sep-21-10 06:08 PM |
#156 |
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No, it is NOT. |
TheWraith |
Sep-20-10 08:24 PM |
#16 |
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Same as many other pension plans. |
MannyGoldstein |
Sep-20-10 08:41 PM |
#21 |
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Sorry... that's how pension plans work too... |
JuniperLea |
Sep-20-10 08:53 PM |
#32 |
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Not quite. |
TheWraith |
Sep-20-10 11:38 PM |
#57 |
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Actually, it depends on the type of pension -- TheWraith. |
JDPriestly |
Sep-21-10 04:44 PM |
#146 |
| -
Think of a pot luck supper. Everybody puts something on the |
JDPriestly |
Sep-21-10 04:42 PM |
#144 |
| -
And we will eventually be entitled to it....when we're 70 |
Crazy Dave |
Sep-20-10 08:26 PM |
#18 |
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The idea that all FDR created was a huge saving account is |
ProSense |
Sep-20-10 08:41 PM |
#20 |
| -
Right... so Goldman Sachs can manage your money... |
JuniperLea |
Sep-20-10 08:54 PM |
#33 |
| -
You are comparing Social Security to |
ProSense |
Sep-20-10 09:23 PM |
#42 |
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By definition it is an entitlement... |
Ozymanithrax |
Sep-20-10 09:07 PM |
#38 |
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i get an accounting of MY input. it's bought and paid for. |
spanone |
Sep-20-10 09:28 PM |
#44 |
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Why can't we take back the effing WORD?? |
eridani |
Sep-20-10 09:34 PM |
#45 |
| -
same goes for Social Security Disability INSURANCE |
CountAllVotes |
Sep-20-10 09:37 PM |
#46 |
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SS hawks love to use that term because it implies welfare. |
pa28 |
Sep-20-10 09:39 PM |
#47 |
| -
It *IS* an entitlement by definition. Denying it implies that "entitlements" are bad. |
PeaceNikki |
Sep-20-10 09:41 PM |
#48 |
| -
I'm not sure I want to embrace the idea of having entitlements and "entitlements". |
pa28 |
Sep-20-10 10:10 PM |
#53 |
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"calling it anything less than savings" |
ProSense |
Sep-20-10 10:16 PM |
#54 |
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Many companies have 401(K)s. |
JDPriestly |
Sep-21-10 04:51 PM |
#147 |
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The hawks want to |
ProSense |
Sep-20-10 09:42 PM |
#49 |
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Yes. This. |
PeaceNikki |
Sep-20-10 09:53 PM |
#51 |
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K&R....n/t |
unkachuck |
Sep-20-10 09:53 PM |
#50 |
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LOL |
Hubert Flottz |
Sep-21-10 09:55 AM |
#88 |
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Yes it is, but that's ok. nt |
Obamanaut |
Sep-20-10 11:40 PM |
#58 |
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Private pension plans change the rules all the time |
spinbaby |
Sep-21-10 05:23 AM |
#65 |
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ss was designed to avoid that. |
tomp |
Sep-21-10 05:47 AM |
#66 |
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Bernanke always says that and Obama should fire anyone he can fire who says that. |
harun |
Sep-21-10 07:43 AM |
#69 |
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I'm with you Manny! |
Hubert Flottz |
Sep-21-10 08:26 AM |
#73 |
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SS IS an Entitlement and is a legal term ... |
mntleo2 |
Sep-21-10 08:46 AM |
#74 |
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Why are we so afraid of this word? |
PeaceNikki |
Sep-21-10 09:01 AM |
#76 |
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We shouldn't be afraid of that word |
mntleo2 |
Sep-21-10 09:18 AM |
#77 |
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Agreed. |
PeaceNikki |
Sep-21-10 10:55 AM |
#97 |
| -
+1 n/t |
lumberjack_jeff |
Sep-21-10 11:50 AM |
#112 |
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K&R! //nt |
Overseas |
Sep-21-10 08:55 AM |
#75 |
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Absolutely fucking right on. |
Enthusiast |
Sep-21-10 09:19 AM |
#78 |
| -
But it IS an entitlement ... |
mntleo2 |
Sep-21-10 09:25 AM |
#81 |
| -
What's wrong with "entitlement?" |
JDPriestly |
Sep-21-10 04:54 PM |
#148 |
| -
If anyone is interested in the facts |
ProSense |
Sep-21-10 09:25 AM |
#82 |
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I see section 202, Manny is still right. |
MikeMc |
Sep-21-10 10:45 AM |
#95 |
| -
It's an entitlement program, |
ProSense |
Sep-21-10 01:07 PM |
#120 |
| -
Sorry again, Pro. Post # 158 contains my apologies to you. NT. |
MikeMc |
Sep-21-10 06:49 PM |
#159 |
| -
Your statement is 100% accurate. nt |
Lucky Luciano |
Sep-21-10 09:53 AM |
#87 |
| -
+1. Ike E. & Manny G. |
MikeMc |
Sep-21-10 10:00 AM |
#89 |
| -
Please don't validate the Republican redefinition of "entitlement" as a bad thing. |
Lyric |
Sep-21-10 10:01 AM |
#90 |
| -
Social Security is a debt the government owes to seniors. |
JDPriestly |
Sep-21-10 04:59 PM |
#149 |
| -
Al Franken on SS: |
MikeMc |
Sep-22-10 10:07 AM |
#175 |
| -
Like it or not, the word “entitlement” has been co-opted by the greed monkeys. |
alberg |
Sep-21-10 10:10 AM |
#91 |
| -
I believe that the language argument is important |
Lyric |
Sep-21-10 10:18 AM |
#93 |
| -
I believe the language battle is a lost cause. There isn't enough time to reframe using "their" word |
alberg |
Sep-21-10 11:01 AM |
#100 |
| -
It's not a lost cause, |
ProSense |
Sep-21-10 11:07 AM |
#102 |
| -
+ 1 on your link in post # 90, thanks. |
MikeMc |
Sep-21-10 11:16 AM |
#105 |
| -
It IS an entitlement - what you mean, it is not welfare. |
RaleighNCDUer |
Sep-21-10 10:56 AM |
#98 |
| -
So our choice is this: take decades to try to change the meaning of the word |
alberg |
Sep-21-10 11:09 AM |
#103 |
| -
Forgive this vacuous Canadian, but I have a question regarding SS payments |
OnlinePoker |
Sep-21-10 11:04 AM |
#101 |
| -
Unfortunately everyone just lies about SS here on both sides, so it is tough |
harun |
Sep-21-10 11:26 AM |
#107 |
| -
How the system works |
PoliticAverse |
Sep-21-10 07:11 PM |
#160 |
| -
I would agree |
florida08 |
Sep-21-10 11:25 AM |
#106 |
| -
We have term limits in California. |
JDPriestly |
Sep-21-10 05:15 PM |
#150 |
| -
some issues I have with Soc Security |
littlewolf |
Sep-21-10 11:33 AM |
#108 |
| -
You can save in addition to Social Security. |
JDPriestly |
Sep-21-10 05:19 PM |
#151 |
| -
Flemming vs Nestor - no right to SS benefits. |
PoliticAverse |
Sep-21-10 07:16 PM |
#164 |
| -
It's the entitlement that's supposed to be there... |
Orsino |
Sep-21-10 11:41 AM |
#109 |
| -
Perhaps true, but then "entitlement" was never a dirty word until conservatives got hold of it. |
DirkGently |
Sep-21-10 11:46 AM |
#110 |
| -
It is an entitlement. If you meet the terms, you're entitled to the benefit. |
lumberjack_jeff |
Sep-21-10 11:47 AM |
#111 |
| -
Very strange OP if the intent is to be supportive of Social Security... |
Spazito |
Sep-21-10 11:56 AM |
#113 |
| -
Ayup. |
PeaceNikki |
Sep-21-10 12:52 PM |
#116 |
| -
Repukes use the word 'entitlement' as to mean 'hand out' where have you been? |
Rex |
Sep-21-10 12:56 PM |
#118 |
| -
So what if the repukes are too stupid to know what the word means.... |
Spazito |
Sep-21-10 01:07 PM |
#121 |
| -
uh huh |
PeaceNikki |
Sep-21-10 01:10 PM |
#122 |
| -
All your social security are belong to us |
demi moore |
Sep-21-10 12:01 PM |
#114 |
| -
If I could rec this thread a million times I would! |
Rex |
Sep-21-10 12:54 PM |
#117 |
| -
i agree. it pisses me off |
DesertFlower |
Sep-21-10 01:19 PM |
#123 |
| -
Kicked and recommended. |
Uncle Joe |
Sep-21-10 01:27 PM |
#124 |
| -
K & R ++++ n/t |
N_E_1 for Tennis |
Sep-21-10 01:39 PM |
#125 |
| -
OH YES!!!!!! |
bobburgster |
Sep-21-10 03:08 PM |
#128 |
| -
Damn Right! Thank you for always telling the truth of the matter Manny!!! |
flyarm |
Sep-21-10 03:36 PM |
#129 |
| -
Entitlement does NOT equal hand-out. Stop buying into the right-wing bullshit |
PeaceNikki |
Sep-21-10 04:24 PM |
#136 |
| -
What????????? did you read what i wrote????????? seems not. eom |
flyarm |
Sep-21-10 05:43 PM |
#153 |
| -
Sure did. You are saying it's not an entitlement because you paid into it. |
PeaceNikki |
Sep-21-10 05:45 PM |
#154 |
| -
Social Security is an Insurance all workers paid into..it is not an entitlement! |
flyarm |
Sep-21-10 09:45 PM |
#167 |
| -
Yes, it is. In fact it's a TEXTBOOK example of an entitlement. |
PeaceNikki |
Sep-22-10 12:38 PM |
#176 |
| -
Private pension plans change the rules all the time |
KamaAina |
Sep-21-10 04:28 PM |
#139 |
| -
No, the private-industry people would NOT go to jail. Ask the retirees of Bethlehem Steel. |
WinkyDink |
Sep-21-10 04:43 PM |
#145 |
| -
Of course it's an entitlement. BUT THERE'S NOTHING WRONG WITH ENTITLEMENTS |
EstimatedProphet |
Sep-21-10 09:58 PM |
#169 |
| -
Stop it! We need to cower and run and hide because the right-wing has made this a dirty word. |
PeaceNikki |
Sep-22-10 06:38 AM |
#171 |
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