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Reply #113: And the "subsidy" is a tax credit [View All]

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Lydia Leftcoast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-19-10 10:19 PM
Response to Reply #45
113. And the "subsidy" is a tax credit
which is an affluent person's idea of a good deal and does nothing for the person who has trouble actually coming up with the premium money every month.

Ask one who is self-employed and is already for a 100% tax credit on insurance premiums. Namely me. Getting a reduction in my income tax of a couple hundred dollars is NOT HELPFUL when I, with my variable income, can't afford the premium payment, which the insurance co. automatically withdraws from my bank account. (And that's for a policy with a $5000 deductible and a 20% copay thereafter.)

I broke my elbow last winter and had to pay the entire cost of treatment myself. It took me seven months to pay it off. That was WITH insurance in what is supposed to be one of the "best" states for insurance in the country.

All the insurance company did for my hundreds of dollars per month was mail out letters telling me that I hadn't made my deductible.

That's why I dropped my insurance. And there is nothing in the current bill to prevent people from going bankrupt.

That's why I will resist any attempts to force me to buy private insurance unless, as in Germany and Switzerland, the insurance companies are put on a choke chain.

I'm old enough to remember when paying for insurance got you NO DEDUCTIBLES and a 10% copay.

Any health insurance law that still permits deductibles is just an excuse for the insurance companies to print money.

That's REALITY, not think tank theory, not DNC PR babble. It's REALITY, and many, many people are worse off than I am.

REALITY. Sometimes it conflicts with political PR.
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  -It is amazing how every "criticism" of HCR seems to rely on incorrect information. BzaDem  Sep-18-10 07:29 PM   #0 
  - How about "it does nothing to reduce health care costs"  MannyGoldstein   Sep-18-10 07:34 PM   #1 
  - Cost controls  BzaDem   Sep-18-10 07:38 PM   #3 
  - That article confirms the middle class tax hike  MannyGoldstein   Sep-18-10 09:03 PM   #30 
  - Yeah, the tax hike for those who have a health plan that costs more than 27,500/year.  BzaDem   Sep-18-10 09:08 PM   #33 
     - A plan that costs $27,000 per year  Jeff In Milwaukee   Sep-18-10 09:19 PM   #37 
     - the 27 is for a family  dsc   Sep-18-10 11:03 PM   #64 
        - Mine is family coverage....  Jeff In Milwaukee   Sep-19-10 08:09 AM   #92 
           - and my point is that many singles, I know we don't matter, but many singles  dsc   Sep-19-10 09:40 AM   #98 
     - Insurers certainly compete on price now  MannyGoldstein   Sep-18-10 09:34 PM   #40 
        - I'm talking about the individual market, not the employer market.  BzaDem   Sep-18-10 10:03 PM   #48 
           - In fact, rising medical costs are in insurer's best interests  MannyGoldstein   Sep-18-10 10:31 PM   #56 
              - You are now claiming that Obama didn't try to get a public option??  BzaDem   Sep-18-10 11:24 PM   #71 
                 - He'd already bargained it away  MannyGoldstein   Sep-19-10 11:36 AM   #108 
  - Post one single solid cost control device within this bill .......  Exilednight   Sep-18-10 10:45 PM   #57 
  - People don't care how much it costs, they only care about how much they have  harun   Sep-18-10 11:07 PM   #67 
  - Thanks for that. I'm sorry that you will be attacked for it shortly.  MineralMan   Sep-18-10 07:34 PM   #2 
  - I accept that something is better than nothing in this case . . .  MrModerate   Sep-18-10 07:41 PM   #4 
  - This wasn't a golden opportunity for single payer. It wouldn't have gotten 10 votes in the Senate.  BzaDem   Sep-18-10 07:44 PM   #5 
     - And the passengers on the Titanic were enjoying the cruise up to the point . . .  MrModerate   Sep-18-10 07:49 PM   #6 
     - The new exchanges are meant to deal with employers dropping insuranace coverage  BzaDem   Sep-18-10 07:52 PM   #9 
        - I'm afraid you're right. I don't like it very much, however . . .  MrModerate   Sep-18-10 08:50 PM   # 
           - The question is not whether you like it compared to single payer.  BzaDem   Sep-18-10 09:01 PM   #29 
     - His ads called it "extreme."  GreenArrow   Sep-18-10 08:44 PM   #21 
        - Just because you think something is sensible, reasonable, humane, pragmatic, fundamentally civilized  BzaDem   Sep-18-10 09:03 PM   #31 
           - Just because other people don't think  GreenArrow   Sep-18-10 09:36 PM   #43 
  - Under Obama's bill, someone with pre-existing conditions will have to pay $xxxx/month!  Safetykitten   Sep-18-10 07:50 PM   #7 
  - So your argument is that we shouldn't have passed a bill at all? If it can't start  BzaDem   Sep-18-10 07:53 PM   #11 
  - XXXX's a month!  Safetykitten   Sep-18-10 07:51 PM   #8 
  - What you call amazing I call perfectly predictable.  HiFructosePronSyrup   Sep-18-10 07:52 PM   #10 
  - As predictable as your bullying. eom  Hello_Kitty   Sep-18-10 08:50 PM   #23 
     - Pot/Kettle  MajorChode   Sep-19-10 10:00 AM   #105 
     - Bullying?  HiFructosePronSyrup   Sep-19-10 11:32 AM   #107 
  - The funniest part is  Safetykitten   Sep-18-10 07:56 PM   #12 
  - What will be more funny is watching you eat your words when they turn out to be false. n/t  BzaDem   Sep-18-10 07:58 PM   #13 
     - Amazing, cheerleading this clusterfuck as others told you about  Safetykitten   Sep-18-10 08:03 PM   #14 
        - Your post is a perfect example of what I'm talking about. It illustrates my point perfectly.  BzaDem   Sep-18-10 08:08 PM   #16 
        - + 999999 Most criticism from the left of Obama is just as flawed as what you illustrated  stevenleser   Sep-19-10 10:49 PM   #119 
           - Criticism of the insurance bill is criticism of Obama?  dflprincess   Sep-20-10 11:59 AM   #122 
        - that's the way it works for some DUers  Skittles   Sep-18-10 09:01 PM   #26 
        - +1 nt  SammyWinstonJack   Sep-19-10 08:41 AM   #95 
        - I like you.  Hell Hath No Fury   Sep-19-10 09:41 AM   #99 
  - The ultimate solution is to make Hospitals non-profit  MadMaddie   Sep-18-10 08:04 PM   #15 
  - The majority are already non-profit  Jeff In Milwaukee   Sep-18-10 09:26 PM   #39 
  - I am sorry it is not incorrect information  Bitwit1234   Sep-18-10 08:11 PM   #17 
  - Kindly point out where the act makes one earning minimum wage eligible for free Medicaid.  rug   Sep-18-10 08:12 PM   #18 
  - Sure.  BzaDem   Sep-18-10 08:17 PM   #19 
     - That doesn't work in 13 states that have a higher minimum wage than the federal.  rug   Sep-18-10 08:34 PM   #20 
     - Even people in some of those states would qualify for Medicaid.  BzaDem   Sep-18-10 08:57 PM   #25 
        - Which is why it's inaccurate to equate the minimum wage with medicare.  rug   Sep-18-10 09:05 PM   #32 
           - The more accurate statement is your repitition that this is NOT a national health care law  BzaDem   Sep-18-10 09:12 PM   #34 
           - And your critical mistake is believing and disseminating the false notion that merely purchasing  rug   Sep-18-10 09:22 PM   #38 
              - "Along with its premiums, copayments, and noncovered services and facilities"  BzaDem   Sep-18-10 09:53 PM   #45 
                 - You are misinterpreting what real change is, 2014 notwithstanding.  rug   Sep-18-10 11:01 PM   #63 
                 - I think someone is in our conversation, but it isn't me. n/t  BzaDem   Sep-18-10 11:07 PM   #66 
                    - That's accurate.  rug   Sep-18-10 11:15 PM   #69 
                 - And the "subsidy" is a tax credit  Lydia Leftcoast   Sep-19-10 10:19 PM   #113 
           - In most cases, income is not the deciding factor...  Jeff In Milwaukee   Sep-18-10 09:35 PM   #41 
              - That will not be true in 2014. Income will be THE ONLY factor.  BzaDem   Sep-18-10 09:54 PM   #46 
                 - Most of us make over 133% of the poverty level.  dflprincess   Sep-18-10 10:22 PM   #53 
                 - I was responding to a post that claimed even people making under 133% won't get Medicaid.  BzaDem   Sep-18-10 11:25 PM   #72 
                    - Check what you wrote. You said anyone making OVER 133% of the poverty level would get Medicaid  dflprincess   Sep-19-10 12:19 AM   #83 
                       - Exactly  LostinVA   Sep-19-10 06:47 AM   #86 
                 - As the subsequent replies to your thread indicate  Jeff In Milwaukee   Sep-19-10 08:11 AM   #93 
                    - Yes, I meant up to, not over. Over was a typo and would make no sense  BzaDem   Sep-19-10 09:53 AM   #102 
     - Make slightly more than that, 150% FPL or $17250 a year you are not eligible for Medicaid  Hello_Kitty   Sep-18-10 08:50 PM   #22 
        - Yeah -- like make it available to everybody! Like just about every other developed country. n/t  MrModerate   Sep-18-10 08:53 PM   #24 
        - $57/month that gets them health insurance.  BzaDem   Sep-18-10 09:01 PM   #27 
           - $57 that is really easy to find when you're making that little money.  Hello_Kitty   Sep-18-10 09:18 PM   #35 
           - You really have to look at who are the providers in these plans...  slipslidingaway   Sep-18-10 11:55 PM   #81 
           - $57 that will be impossible for most people at that income level to find  LostinVA   Sep-19-10 06:49 AM   #87 
              - So how would they pay for the tax increase that would come with single payer?  stevenleser   Sep-19-10 10:53 PM   #120 
                 - With the money they would have used paying premiums to private companies  dflprincess   Sep-20-10 12:00 PM   #123 
  - You mean the health care bill that became a law in March?  subterranean   Sep-18-10 09:01 PM   #28 
  - My pet peeve is why anyone calls the Health Insurance Company Profit Protection Act  dflprincess   Sep-18-10 10:27 PM   #55 
     - "only a requirement that we continue to pay for the same products we've had all along."  BzaDem   Sep-18-10 11:27 PM   #74 
     - People under 400% of the poverty level already get free health care  LostinVA   Sep-19-10 06:50 AM   #88 
        - Under 400% of the poverty level is under 88k per year for a family of 4.  BzaDem   Sep-19-10 09:56 AM   #103 
     - My pet peeve...  Jeff In Milwaukee   Sep-19-10 12:00 PM   #110 
        - People who have insurance policies with large deductibles and  dflprincess   Sep-19-10 09:20 PM   #111 
  - How about this criticism: my pre-tax flexible spending card is being capped at $2500 instead of $6K  aikoaiko   Sep-18-10 09:18 PM   #36 
  - Except...  Jeff In Milwaukee   Sep-18-10 09:49 PM   #44 
  - I do have insurance and I still need the benefit of the $6000 tax free FSA  aikoaiko   Sep-18-10 10:10 PM   #49 
     - If you have chronic illnesses, your premiums will be lower now, because of the ban on considering  BzaDem   Sep-18-10 10:12 PM   #50 
        - I don't see anything that will require my premiums to go down.  aikoaiko   Sep-18-10 10:17 PM   #52 
        - I don't know the details of your current plan. If you are on a plan that rates based on risk, they  BzaDem   Sep-18-10 10:24 PM   #54 
           - I'm not in plan based on risk and yes I'm in a large organization pool.  aikoaiko   Sep-18-10 10:46 PM   #58 
              - Amazingly it was ultra-liberals like Raul Grijalva who wanted to kill savings accounts entirely.  BzaDem   Sep-18-10 11:01 PM   #61 
                 - I think I get one more year of $6K on the FSA.  aikoaiko   Sep-18-10 11:04 PM   #65 
                 - Because Health Savings Accounts are a lousy deal for anyone who isn't affluent  Lydia Leftcoast   Sep-19-10 10:22 PM   #115 
        - Age will set premiums.  amandabeech   Sep-19-10 08:46 AM   #96 
           - Yes, another REALITY check that conflicts with DNC press releases  Lydia Leftcoast   Sep-19-10 10:24 PM   #116 
  - What I am wondering is, what about all the positive benefits.  BzaDem   Sep-18-10 09:59 PM   #47 
  - There are no benefits to me and my family that I know of in our current situations  aikoaiko   Sep-18-10 10:14 PM   #51 
  - Yes, that will hurt us as well. n/t  slipslidingaway   Sep-18-10 10:57 PM   #60 
  - Heck, quite a bit of HCR *praise* does, too.  Orsino   Sep-18-10 09:35 PM   #42 
  - +1 nt  laughingliberal   Sep-18-10 11:26 PM   #73 
  - Of course you're 100% right on, and people who don't want to hear the truth are unreccing  HughMoran   Sep-18-10 10:48 PM   #59 
  - Explain how other countries provide HC to all for 50% less and why ...  slipslidingaway   Sep-18-10 11:01 PM   #62 
  - Your post is not an argument for how the current bill is worse than the status quo.  BzaDem   Sep-18-10 11:14 PM   #68 
     - If you say that you want to provide HC for all then you have to remove...  slipslidingaway   Sep-18-10 11:41 PM   #77 
     - And those who supported the Public Option should have heeded this warning sign.  girl gone mad   Sep-19-10 11:26 PM   #121 
  - Since you are so concerned about accuracy  dsc   Sep-18-10 11:19 PM   #70 
  - "That isn't what people have said."  BzaDem   Sep-18-10 11:31 PM   #75 
     - I have no problem with a mandate  dsc   Sep-18-10 11:44 PM   #78 
        - Your sole function under health insurance reform...  Fumesucker   Sep-18-10 11:50 PM   #80 
        - This is exactly what it is for  LostinVA   Sep-19-10 06:53 AM   #90 
        - 80% of Democrats approve of the bill. Guess according to you, they all wish to be fooled.  BzaDem   Sep-19-10 10:05 AM   #106 
           - That's because they don't understand the bill  Lydia Leftcoast   Sep-19-10 10:32 PM   #118 
        - +1 nt  SammyWinstonJack   Sep-19-10 08:46 AM   #97 
        - Ding ding ding!  Hell Hath No Fury   Sep-19-10 09:46 AM   #100 
        - I think you are misinterpreting what a public option would have done.  BzaDem   Sep-18-10 11:56 PM   #82 
           - Thanks for helping untangle the myths around HCR and the public option! nt  flamingdem   Sep-19-10 10:21 PM   #114 
  - Before HCR we had the most expensive healthcare in the world ...  spin   Sep-18-10 11:40 PM   #76 
  - Given that the insurance companies profit is set as a percentage of their cash flow..  Fumesucker   Sep-18-10 11:46 PM   #79 
     - That sounds like a good reason for heathcare expense ...  spin   Sep-19-10 06:40 AM   #85 
  - The "better than nothing argument" gets old  BlueCheese   Sep-19-10 12:25 AM   #84 
  - Now you see how Bush the idiot ended up with a 90% approval rating  NNN0LHI   Sep-19-10 06:51 AM   #89 
  - Calling out the OP like that is agaisnt DU rules  LostinVA   Sep-19-10 06:55 AM   #91 
  - Appears I hit a soft spot with you  NNN0LHI   Sep-19-10 08:12 AM   #94 
  - I heart you!  Hell Hath No Fury   Sep-19-10 09:47 AM   #101 
  - Says the person who can't refute anything in the OP and is consumed by your own narrative  BzaDem   Sep-19-10 09:59 AM   #104 
  - I for one was a proud ten percenter..  Fumesucker   Sep-19-10 11:43 AM   #109 
     - Perhaps you can clear some of that bullshit up  USArmyParatrooper   Sep-19-10 09:30 PM   #112 
        - I already have on this thread..  Fumesucker   Sep-19-10 10:27 PM   #117 
  - What's amazing is that disparaging subject lines making patently false statements are allowed to  Greyhound   Sep-20-10 12:17 PM   #124 
  - Where in the Constitution are the Feds given the power to mandate that Citizens purchase anything?  court jester   Sep-20-10 12:17 PM   #125 

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