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Reply #57: You need to stop kickin it with Conrad. No objective view of our model would conflate it with Swiss' [View All]

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TheKentuckian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-13-10 12:27 PM
Response to Reply #2
57. You need to stop kickin it with Conrad. No objective view of our model would conflate it with Swiss'
I mean other than one rightish Senator making a dishonest claim, what would make you think so?
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  -Let me ask again: how much would single payer or public option cost? Recursion  Sep-13-10 10:28 AM   #0 
  - about the same as it costs in Canada n/t  Enrique   Sep-13-10 10:31 AM   #1 
  - What makes you think so?  Recursion   Sep-13-10 10:33 AM   #2 
     - the point is that there are models to look at  Enrique   Sep-13-10 10:38 AM   #7 
     - They also have healthier populations  Recursion   Sep-13-10 10:45 AM   #11 
        - Maybe we'd be healthier if we could see a frickin' doctor once in awhile  Capitalocracy   Sep-13-10 12:49 PM   #67 
        - Healthier, yes. Would that be cheaper?  Recursion   Sep-13-10 01:01 PM   #72 
        - Baconaise lite  SmileyRose   Sep-13-10 09:57 PM   #96 
     - You need to stop kickin it with Conrad. No objective view of our model would conflate it with Swiss'  TheKentuckian   Sep-13-10 12:27 PM   #57 
     - That was from Krugman  Recursion   Sep-13-10 12:32 PM   #61 
        - There was no bill last August. Wake me up when we get strict regulation of nonprofits  TheKentuckian   Sep-13-10 01:12 PM   #78 
     - The Swiss law FORBIDS profit for insurance companies on essential healthcare  kenny blankenship   Sep-13-10 01:30 PM   #86 
        - Who the hell is required to buy for-profit insurance in the US?  Recursion   Sep-13-10 07:57 PM   #90 
  - In europe & elsewhere, health care spending is significantly less than here, with better results.  Hannah Bell   Sep-13-10 10:35 AM   #3 
  - I certainly agree  Recursion   Sep-13-10 10:37 AM   #4 
     - the costs are driven by government subsidization of a for-profit system.  Hannah Bell   Sep-13-10 11:22 AM   #30 
        - I remember wondering if they were pushing Part D to make Medicare go broke  Recursion   Sep-13-10 11:57 AM   #42 
           - i think weakening the financial position of medicare was part of the plan -- as  Hannah Bell   Sep-13-10 11:59 AM   #44 
  - How much do you have?  slackmaster   Sep-13-10 10:37 AM   #5 
  - 0$  zipplewrath   Sep-13-10 10:38 AM   #6 
  - A couple thoughts on that...  phantom power   Sep-13-10 10:39 AM   #8 
  - Canada  Recursion   Sep-13-10 10:43 AM   #9 
  - Raise the cap.  Dappleganger   Sep-13-10 10:44 AM   #10 
  - What cap? Medicare levies haven't been capped in 20 years. NT  Recursion   Sep-13-10 10:46 AM   #12 
     - The cap on Social Security tax for the wealthy  m00nbeam   Sep-13-10 10:59 AM   #20 
        - That's social security. This is medicare  Recursion   Sep-13-10 11:01 AM   #23 
           - Medicare is funded by Social Security.  m00nbeam   Sep-13-10 11:21 AM   #29 
              - No. They are two separate systems. NT  Recursion   Sep-13-10 11:48 AM   #34 
  - The costs for retirees won't go down under single payer.  denverbill   Sep-13-10 10:47 AM   #13 
  - OK  Recursion   Sep-13-10 10:52 AM   #15 
  - Well, I have an USAToday article from last month that says we spend $6565 per US citizen  sinkingfeeling   Sep-13-10 10:47 AM   #14 
  - So a complete spread-the-pain plan would have a $547 premium  Recursion   Sep-13-10 10:53 AM   #17 
  - No, that figure is premised on the dominance of the insurer as a sticky fingered middleman  kenny blankenship   Sep-13-10 12:56 PM   #70 
     - My HMO is non-profit. It gets no profit from anywhere in the system  Recursion   Sep-13-10 01:11 PM   #77 
  - Actually taking in all the government health programs  Cleita   Sep-13-10 12:00 PM   #47 
     - Because doctors' practices would go bankrupt  Recursion   Sep-13-10 12:24 PM   #56 
        - Boy you are just full of insurance company talking points.  Cleita   Sep-13-10 02:21 PM   #88 
  - Well, if you're so 'concerned', you can figure it out for yourself. Remove the profit and  Edweird   Sep-13-10 10:52 AM   #16 
  - Health insurance companies' profit margins are about 5%  Recursion   Sep-13-10 10:57 AM   #18 
  - Lovely RW talking point you got there.  Hello_Kitty   Sep-13-10 11:52 AM   #38 
  - How is that a right-wing talking point?  Recursion   Sep-13-10 11:55 AM   #41 
  - Because I've only ever heard that talking point from wingnuts.  Hello_Kitty   Sep-13-10 01:08 PM   #76 
     - I just got it from yahoo finance  Recursion   Sep-13-10 01:16 PM   #79 
        - They'll just fold more of those things into MLR  Hello_Kitty   Sep-13-10 01:28 PM   #85 
  - I'll say.  Safetykitten   Sep-13-10 11:52 PM   #101 
  - If you were sincere you would already know that single payer costs about 1/3  Edweird   Sep-13-10 12:32 PM   #60 
     - WTF? The status quo is horrible  Recursion   Sep-13-10 12:33 PM   #62 
        - The information is out there.  Edweird   Sep-13-10 12:37 PM   #64 
           - So, nothing, then?  Recursion   Sep-13-10 12:41 PM   #65 
              - Like I said, I find your sincerity highly suspect. Do your own research.  Edweird   Sep-13-10 12:50 PM   #68 
                 - I have.  Recursion   Sep-13-10 12:56 PM   #71 
  - Hell yea...  daleanime   Sep-13-10 11:01 AM   #22 
     - My current insurance at work is through a non-profit  Recursion   Sep-13-10 11:02 AM   #24 
        - Because nonprofit means you don't pay taxes  Hello_Kitty   Sep-13-10 11:53 AM   #40 
           - It means you can't distribute surpluses to owners or shareholders  Recursion   Sep-13-10 12:00 PM   #46 
              - Right....  daleanime   Sep-14-10 12:12 PM   #102 
  - Dude, Medicare is currently *just for old people* who are guaranteed to get ill  kenny blankenship   Sep-13-10 10:59 AM   #19 
  - First off, being 65 doesn't mean you're sick and decrepit  Recursion   Sep-13-10 11:01 AM   #21 
     - At 65 you're a hell of a lot closer to being sick and decrepit than you were at 35  kenny blankenship   Sep-13-10 11:14 AM   #27 
     - It doesn't mean you are sick and decrepit. It means you are much more likely to be though.  denverbill   Sep-13-10 11:16 AM   #28 
     - No, no - this guy or gal is a libertarian Ubermensch. He can simply WILL himself into health!  kenny blankenship   Sep-13-10 11:22 AM   #32 
        - What the hell are you talking about? NT  Recursion   Sep-13-10 11:49 AM   #35 
        - I was a card-carrying, dues paying libertarian in my younger years, maybe 20 years ago.  denverbill   Sep-13-10 11:51 AM   #36 
           - Why did libertarianism come up?  Recursion   Sep-13-10 11:53 AM   #39 
              - Just answering the above post. Didn't mean to sidetrack the discussion.  denverbill   Sep-13-10 11:59 AM   #45 
                 - Sorry, just irritated that I was getting called a libertarian  Recursion   Sep-13-10 12:34 PM   #63 
                    - Willfully ignoring the insurance industry's true cost  Spike89   Sep-13-10 05:09 PM   #89 
     - In every other universal health care system that I know of,  subterranean   Sep-13-10 11:22 AM   #31 
        - Even at the height of the New Deal, explicit price controls were a hard sell  Recursion   Sep-13-10 12:28 PM   #58 
  - Well,  area51   Sep-13-10 11:08 AM   #25 
  - Capital investment planning, spending targets, peer comparison, and professional guidelines?  Recursion   Sep-13-10 11:13 AM   #26 
  - Our health care costs are around $7,000 a year per person and only  Cleita   Sep-13-10 11:35 AM   #33 
  - I don't think that if we replicated Canada's systems we would pay their prices  Recursion   Sep-13-10 11:51 AM   #37 
     - Nice to blame it on the immigrants again.  Cleita   Sep-13-10 11:58 AM   #43 
     - What did I "blame" on immigrants?  Recursion   Sep-13-10 12:02 PM   #49 
     - How about France, then? Or Japan? Or Germany? Or the UK?  dpibel   Sep-13-10 12:01 PM   #48 
        - I was pretty sure we could all agree our healthcare is worst in the industrialized world  Recursion   Sep-13-10 12:03 PM   #50 
           - Fine. What about the rest?  dpibel   Sep-13-10 12:05 PM   #51 
              - (I added some stuff about diet above)  Recursion   Sep-13-10 12:18 PM   #54 
  - At costofwar.com, so far the wars have only cost $3515 per person in the US since 2001.  valerief   Sep-13-10 12:09 PM   #52 
  - Because that's 1/8th the cost of health care  Recursion   Sep-13-10 12:31 PM   #59 
     - No, I asked why can't the cost of medical insurance be the same as the cost of war.  valerief   Sep-13-10 12:56 PM   #69 
        - Well, and I was saying the reason it can't  Recursion   Sep-13-10 01:03 PM   #73 
           - Or cut the cost of medical insurancecare. nt  valerief   Sep-13-10 01:05 PM   #74 
  - Add to that that Medicare A&B aren't squat compared to the better...  TreasonousBastard   Sep-13-10 12:15 PM   #53 
  - I completely agree  Recursion   Sep-13-10 12:21 PM   #55 
  - A 65% dem senate, that's how much....people act like congress doesn't exist  uponit7771   Sep-13-10 12:43 PM   #66 
  - Devil is always in the details but we should be able to cover everyone and at least maintain per  TheKentuckian   Sep-13-10 01:06 PM   #75 
  - Obviously taxes would have to be raised somewhere to pay for single-payer  Vinca   Sep-13-10 01:17 PM   #80 
  - You can lose your insurance in Canada  Recursion   Sep-13-10 01:21 PM   #82 
  - Canada has a Single Payer system and spends out much less,  harun   Sep-13-10 01:21 PM   #81 
  - I'm hung up on how much it costs period  Recursion   Sep-13-10 01:24 PM   #83 
  - Waste in the system  Recursion   Sep-13-10 01:26 PM   #84 
     - For one they aren't needed. How does an insurance company  harun   Sep-13-10 01:33 PM   #87 
        - My insurance company isn't trying to make a profit  Recursion   Sep-13-10 08:00 PM   #91 
           - Mine is too. Not really cheaper but I do fight with them less about claims  harun   Sep-13-10 09:11 PM   #92 
           - God I hate UHC  Recursion   Sep-13-10 09:18 PM   #93 
           - many possible reasons  Spike89   Sep-13-10 10:21 PM   #97 
  - A larger healthier population paying in could reduce costs or outlays.  mmonk   Sep-13-10 09:23 PM   #94 
  - It could. It could also give providers a single target to corrupt  Recursion   Sep-13-10 09:53 PM   #95 
     - I tend to think differently on providers but pharma could still buy people off.  mmonk   Sep-14-10 03:39 PM   #103 
  - Way to put up a strawman! or strawmen to be accurate.  depakid   Sep-13-10 10:29 PM   #98 
  - Other nations do it for less than $4000/person/year  krispos42   Sep-13-10 10:50 PM   #99 
     - Other nations have less income inequality and violence  Recursion   Sep-13-10 11:44 PM   #100 
 

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