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TreasonousBastard Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-13-10 12:15 PM
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53. Add to that that Medicare A&B aren't squat compared to the better...
group plans out there. (Not that there are that many really good group plans out there any more...)

The primary thing that all the yabbos demanding some sort of single payer forget is that the US has one of the highest cost delivery systems. After all is said and done, your broken bone, childbirth (including pre- and postnatal care) dialysis, or cancer treatment costs more here than just about anywhere else. Then, they forget that many primary care practices subsidize the pittance Medicare and Medicaid pays with the rest of their practice. If you can find a primary care practice any more.

A nice, shiny, new doctor just hitting residency has school loans of maybe half a million bucks and then has to eventually come up with the cash to establish a practice somewhere, which ain't cheap-- this is also an American phenomenon and ultimately affects costs.

Changing the fee-for-service model would be a more sensible first step.
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  -Let me ask again: how much would single payer or public option cost? Recursion  Sep-13-10 10:28 AM   #0 
  - about the same as it costs in Canada n/t  Enrique   Sep-13-10 10:31 AM   #1 
  - What makes you think so?  Recursion   Sep-13-10 10:33 AM   #2 
     - the point is that there are models to look at  Enrique   Sep-13-10 10:38 AM   #7 
     - They also have healthier populations  Recursion   Sep-13-10 10:45 AM   #11 
        - Maybe we'd be healthier if we could see a frickin' doctor once in awhile  Capitalocracy   Sep-13-10 12:49 PM   #67 
        - Healthier, yes. Would that be cheaper?  Recursion   Sep-13-10 01:01 PM   #72 
        - Baconaise lite  SmileyRose   Sep-13-10 09:57 PM   #96 
     - You need to stop kickin it with Conrad. No objective view of our model would conflate it with Swiss'  TheKentuckian   Sep-13-10 12:27 PM   #57 
     - That was from Krugman  Recursion   Sep-13-10 12:32 PM   #61 
        - There was no bill last August. Wake me up when we get strict regulation of nonprofits  TheKentuckian   Sep-13-10 01:12 PM   #78 
     - The Swiss law FORBIDS profit for insurance companies on essential healthcare  kenny blankenship   Sep-13-10 01:30 PM   #86 
        - Who the hell is required to buy for-profit insurance in the US?  Recursion   Sep-13-10 07:57 PM   #90 
  - In europe & elsewhere, health care spending is significantly less than here, with better results.  Hannah Bell   Sep-13-10 10:35 AM   #3 
  - I certainly agree  Recursion   Sep-13-10 10:37 AM   #4 
     - the costs are driven by government subsidization of a for-profit system.  Hannah Bell   Sep-13-10 11:22 AM   #30 
        - I remember wondering if they were pushing Part D to make Medicare go broke  Recursion   Sep-13-10 11:57 AM   #42 
           - i think weakening the financial position of medicare was part of the plan -- as  Hannah Bell   Sep-13-10 11:59 AM   #44 
  - How much do you have?  slackmaster   Sep-13-10 10:37 AM   #5 
  - 0$  zipplewrath   Sep-13-10 10:38 AM   #6 
  - A couple thoughts on that...  phantom power   Sep-13-10 10:39 AM   #8 
  - Canada  Recursion   Sep-13-10 10:43 AM   #9 
  - Raise the cap.  Dappleganger   Sep-13-10 10:44 AM   #10 
  - What cap? Medicare levies haven't been capped in 20 years. NT  Recursion   Sep-13-10 10:46 AM   #12 
     - The cap on Social Security tax for the wealthy  m00nbeam   Sep-13-10 10:59 AM   #20 
        - That's social security. This is medicare  Recursion   Sep-13-10 11:01 AM   #23 
           - Medicare is funded by Social Security.  m00nbeam   Sep-13-10 11:21 AM   #29 
              - No. They are two separate systems. NT  Recursion   Sep-13-10 11:48 AM   #34 
  - The costs for retirees won't go down under single payer.  denverbill   Sep-13-10 10:47 AM   #13 
  - OK  Recursion   Sep-13-10 10:52 AM   #15 
  - Well, I have an USAToday article from last month that says we spend $6565 per US citizen  sinkingfeeling   Sep-13-10 10:47 AM   #14 
  - So a complete spread-the-pain plan would have a $547 premium  Recursion   Sep-13-10 10:53 AM   #17 
  - No, that figure is premised on the dominance of the insurer as a sticky fingered middleman  kenny blankenship   Sep-13-10 12:56 PM   #70 
     - My HMO is non-profit. It gets no profit from anywhere in the system  Recursion   Sep-13-10 01:11 PM   #77 
  - Actually taking in all the government health programs  Cleita   Sep-13-10 12:00 PM   #47 
     - Because doctors' practices would go bankrupt  Recursion   Sep-13-10 12:24 PM   #56 
        - Boy you are just full of insurance company talking points.  Cleita   Sep-13-10 02:21 PM   #88 
  - Well, if you're so 'concerned', you can figure it out for yourself. Remove the profit and  Edweird   Sep-13-10 10:52 AM   #16 
  - Health insurance companies' profit margins are about 5%  Recursion   Sep-13-10 10:57 AM   #18 
  - Lovely RW talking point you got there.  Hello_Kitty   Sep-13-10 11:52 AM   #38 
  - How is that a right-wing talking point?  Recursion   Sep-13-10 11:55 AM   #41 
  - Because I've only ever heard that talking point from wingnuts.  Hello_Kitty   Sep-13-10 01:08 PM   #76 
     - I just got it from yahoo finance  Recursion   Sep-13-10 01:16 PM   #79 
        - They'll just fold more of those things into MLR  Hello_Kitty   Sep-13-10 01:28 PM   #85 
  - I'll say.  Safetykitten   Sep-13-10 11:52 PM   #101 
  - If you were sincere you would already know that single payer costs about 1/3  Edweird   Sep-13-10 12:32 PM   #60 
     - WTF? The status quo is horrible  Recursion   Sep-13-10 12:33 PM   #62 
        - The information is out there.  Edweird   Sep-13-10 12:37 PM   #64 
           - So, nothing, then?  Recursion   Sep-13-10 12:41 PM   #65 
              - Like I said, I find your sincerity highly suspect. Do your own research.  Edweird   Sep-13-10 12:50 PM   #68 
                 - I have.  Recursion   Sep-13-10 12:56 PM   #71 
  - Hell yea...  daleanime   Sep-13-10 11:01 AM   #22 
     - My current insurance at work is through a non-profit  Recursion   Sep-13-10 11:02 AM   #24 
        - Because nonprofit means you don't pay taxes  Hello_Kitty   Sep-13-10 11:53 AM   #40 
           - It means you can't distribute surpluses to owners or shareholders  Recursion   Sep-13-10 12:00 PM   #46 
              - Right....  daleanime   Sep-14-10 12:12 PM   #102 
  - Dude, Medicare is currently *just for old people* who are guaranteed to get ill  kenny blankenship   Sep-13-10 10:59 AM   #19 
  - First off, being 65 doesn't mean you're sick and decrepit  Recursion   Sep-13-10 11:01 AM   #21 
     - At 65 you're a hell of a lot closer to being sick and decrepit than you were at 35  kenny blankenship   Sep-13-10 11:14 AM   #27 
     - It doesn't mean you are sick and decrepit. It means you are much more likely to be though.  denverbill   Sep-13-10 11:16 AM   #28 
     - No, no - this guy or gal is a libertarian Ubermensch. He can simply WILL himself into health!  kenny blankenship   Sep-13-10 11:22 AM   #32 
        - What the hell are you talking about? NT  Recursion   Sep-13-10 11:49 AM   #35 
        - I was a card-carrying, dues paying libertarian in my younger years, maybe 20 years ago.  denverbill   Sep-13-10 11:51 AM   #36 
           - Why did libertarianism come up?  Recursion   Sep-13-10 11:53 AM   #39 
              - Just answering the above post. Didn't mean to sidetrack the discussion.  denverbill   Sep-13-10 11:59 AM   #45 
                 - Sorry, just irritated that I was getting called a libertarian  Recursion   Sep-13-10 12:34 PM   #63 
                    - Willfully ignoring the insurance industry's true cost  Spike89   Sep-13-10 05:09 PM   #89 
     - In every other universal health care system that I know of,  subterranean   Sep-13-10 11:22 AM   #31 
        - Even at the height of the New Deal, explicit price controls were a hard sell  Recursion   Sep-13-10 12:28 PM   #58 
  - Well,  area51   Sep-13-10 11:08 AM   #25 
  - Capital investment planning, spending targets, peer comparison, and professional guidelines?  Recursion   Sep-13-10 11:13 AM   #26 
  - Our health care costs are around $7,000 a year per person and only  Cleita   Sep-13-10 11:35 AM   #33 
  - I don't think that if we replicated Canada's systems we would pay their prices  Recursion   Sep-13-10 11:51 AM   #37 
     - Nice to blame it on the immigrants again.  Cleita   Sep-13-10 11:58 AM   #43 
     - What did I "blame" on immigrants?  Recursion   Sep-13-10 12:02 PM   #49 
     - How about France, then? Or Japan? Or Germany? Or the UK?  dpibel   Sep-13-10 12:01 PM   #48 
        - I was pretty sure we could all agree our healthcare is worst in the industrialized world  Recursion   Sep-13-10 12:03 PM   #50 
           - Fine. What about the rest?  dpibel   Sep-13-10 12:05 PM   #51 
              - (I added some stuff about diet above)  Recursion   Sep-13-10 12:18 PM   #54 
  - At costofwar.com, so far the wars have only cost $3515 per person in the US since 2001.  valerief   Sep-13-10 12:09 PM   #52 
  - Because that's 1/8th the cost of health care  Recursion   Sep-13-10 12:31 PM   #59 
     - No, I asked why can't the cost of medical insurance be the same as the cost of war.  valerief   Sep-13-10 12:56 PM   #69 
        - Well, and I was saying the reason it can't  Recursion   Sep-13-10 01:03 PM   #73 
           - Or cut the cost of medical insurancecare. nt  valerief   Sep-13-10 01:05 PM   #74 
  - Add to that that Medicare A&B aren't squat compared to the better...  TreasonousBastard   Sep-13-10 12:15 PM   #53 
  - I completely agree  Recursion   Sep-13-10 12:21 PM   #55 
  - A 65% dem senate, that's how much....people act like congress doesn't exist  uponit7771   Sep-13-10 12:43 PM   #66 
  - Devil is always in the details but we should be able to cover everyone and at least maintain per  TheKentuckian   Sep-13-10 01:06 PM   #75 
  - Obviously taxes would have to be raised somewhere to pay for single-payer  Vinca   Sep-13-10 01:17 PM   #80 
  - You can lose your insurance in Canada  Recursion   Sep-13-10 01:21 PM   #82 
  - Canada has a Single Payer system and spends out much less,  harun   Sep-13-10 01:21 PM   #81 
  - I'm hung up on how much it costs period  Recursion   Sep-13-10 01:24 PM   #83 
  - Waste in the system  Recursion   Sep-13-10 01:26 PM   #84 
     - For one they aren't needed. How does an insurance company  harun   Sep-13-10 01:33 PM   #87 
        - My insurance company isn't trying to make a profit  Recursion   Sep-13-10 08:00 PM   #91 
           - Mine is too. Not really cheaper but I do fight with them less about claims  harun   Sep-13-10 09:11 PM   #92 
           - God I hate UHC  Recursion   Sep-13-10 09:18 PM   #93 
           - many possible reasons  Spike89   Sep-13-10 10:21 PM   #97 
  - A larger healthier population paying in could reduce costs or outlays.  mmonk   Sep-13-10 09:23 PM   #94 
  - It could. It could also give providers a single target to corrupt  Recursion   Sep-13-10 09:53 PM   #95 
     - I tend to think differently on providers but pharma could still buy people off.  mmonk   Sep-14-10 03:39 PM   #103 
  - Way to put up a strawman! or strawmen to be accurate.  depakid   Sep-13-10 10:29 PM   #98 
  - Other nations do it for less than $4000/person/year  krispos42   Sep-13-10 10:50 PM   #99 
     - Other nations have less income inequality and violence  Recursion   Sep-13-10 11:44 PM   #100 
 

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