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gravity Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-18-07 12:08 PM
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45. What about the immigrants who come to live a better life in this country
There isn't a fundamental right that says that Americans deserve better opportunities than people from other countries. Protectionists policies could just be viewed as just being greedy, taking away opportunities from immigrants.

I don't know what to do for sure over the immigration issue because it is a complicated issue, which we decide whose wellbeing is better off at the expense of the other's.
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  -The Immigration Bill! Joanne98  May-17-07 05:37 PM   #0 
  - Joanne, I agree with you. "WE "don't have a country anymore.  sweetladybug   May-17-07 05:56 PM   #1 
  - Thankyou!  Joanne98   May-17-07 06:07 PM   #3 
  - I agree and  vpilot   May-17-07 06:06 PM   #2 
  - Of course it's not good.  snappyturtle   May-17-07 06:09 PM   #4 
  - How many of them do you suppose even have the money  proud2Blib   May-18-07 11:29 AM   #39 
  - That's the point of a fine. It's supposed to be a hardship. nt  mycritters2   May-18-07 11:46 AM   #41 
     - A hardship and an impossibility are 2 different things  proud2Blib   May-18-07 11:48 AM   #42 
        - I don't think anything in this bill is going to be enforced--  mycritters2   May-18-07 11:58 AM   #44 
        - You know what's interesting?  proud2Blib   May-18-07 12:13 PM   #46 
           - It makes the corporations happy. And that was the point.  mycritters2   May-18-07 12:17 PM   #48 
        - They have eight years to pay the $5,000 fine.  High Plains   May-18-07 01:53 PM   #70 
  - Who would pay the fine?  High Plains   May-18-07 01:55 PM   #72 
     - Do you really think they're going to join the unions?  dbaker41   May-18-07 02:40 PM   #82 
  - We don't even know what's in the fine print. It's 1000 pages!  Joanne98   May-17-07 06:09 PM   #5 
  - I'm sure this bill includes stiff penalties for the illegal employers, right?  Opposite Reaction   May-17-07 06:10 PM   #6 
  - Who know's. It's a thousand pages and....  Joanne98   May-17-07 06:14 PM   #9 
  - Did you say the employers are getting stiffies? Yes. I think they are.  TahitiNut   May-17-07 06:17 PM   #12 
  - I think they should be able to vote.  Joanne98   May-17-07 06:27 PM   #16 
  - I think they should be paid a fair wage.  mycritters2   May-17-07 08:37 PM   #27 
  - Me too. And I know this many new citizens will lower wages...  Joanne98   May-18-07 12:39 PM   #52 
     - If employers are required to pay a living wage,  mycritters2   May-18-07 12:41 PM   #53 
     - It might be a little risky if we Democrats take up the cause of  pampango   May-18-07 12:56 PM   #59 
     - Don't assume they will vote Dem...  misanthrope   May-18-07 01:34 PM   #65 
        - That's true! I'm glad you reminded me. I've made that argument before.  Joanne98   May-18-07 01:40 PM   #67 
        - If current Hispanic voters are any indication...  High Plains   May-18-07 02:05 PM   #74 
  - Only CITIZENS can or should be allowed to vote.  dbaker41   May-18-07 02:42 PM   #83 
  - How does giving undocumented workers the same rights as...  High Plains   May-18-07 01:59 PM   #73 
  - Call me a cynic, but I sincerely doubt it.  mycritters2   May-17-07 09:36 PM   #32 
  - That the CofC wrote this is an answer to my question.  Opposite Reaction   May-17-07 09:43 PM   #34 
     - Good post (nt)  Babel_17   May-18-07 01:10 PM   #60 
  - I doubt it.  proud2Blib   May-18-07 11:48 AM   #43 
  - i think you forgot your Sarcasm smiley n/t  musette_sf   May-18-07 01:36 PM   #66 
     - I always do, but your sarcasm detector is working correctly.  Opposite Reaction   May-18-07 05:02 PM   #91 
  - I thank everybody who's posted to this thread!  Joanne98   May-17-07 06:11 PM   #7 
  - A new labor movement in this country will re-energize the Democratic Party.  Opposite Reaction   May-17-07 09:29 PM   #30 
     - We have to get rid of the DLC first! Traitor bastards!  Joanne98   May-18-07 01:47 PM   #69 
        - Rather, I believe these efforts must occur concurrently.  Opposite Reaction   May-18-07 05:04 PM   #93 
  - Totally Agreed. We Are Screwed.  Megahurtz   May-17-07 06:14 PM   #8 
  - That's right. We vote for a change and we get this.  Joanne98   May-17-07 06:16 PM   #11 
  - You aren't screwed by illegal hispanics.  Rosemary2205   May-17-07 09:35 PM   #31 
     - Nowhere in the post you've responded to are hispanics mentioned.  mycritters2   May-17-07 09:38 PM   #33 
     - In fact, the word "Hispanic," "Latino," or "Mexican" was never used until that post.  TahitiNut   May-17-07 11:59 PM   #36 
        - Clarification.............  Rosemary2205   May-18-07 10:49 AM   #37 
        - It's irrelevant. The problem of "illegal aliens" (the legal term) is real and has nothing to do with  TahitiNut   May-18-07 11:28 AM   #38 
           - Thanks for the reply  Rosemary2205   May-18-07 12:27 PM   #50 
           - IGNORE--DUPE  High Plains   May-18-07 02:25 PM   #79 
           - IGNORE--DUPE  High Plains   May-18-07 02:26 PM   #80 
           - Your facts are wrong.  High Plains   May-18-07 02:26 PM   #81 
              - An estimate of 78% Latino among the 'illegal aliens'  TahitiNut   May-18-07 02:55 PM   #86 
        - Yeah, it's always interesting to see who REALLY raises  mycritters2   May-18-07 11:42 AM   #40 
     - I'm getting screwed by BIG BUSINESS! I know who's screwing me.  Joanne98   May-18-07 01:46 PM   #68 
  - It's time to stand up for the workers, to protect wages and workers rights  mycritters2   May-17-07 06:15 PM   #10 
  - Don't forget Big Pharma. They have SEVEN lobbyist per Senator!  Joanne98   May-17-07 06:17 PM   #13 
     - Open the border to CHEAP human labor, not CHEAP drugs.  TahitiNut   May-17-07 06:19 PM   #14 
        - OH YEAH! I' m glad you brought that up!  Joanne98   May-17-07 06:25 PM   #15 
           - Clearly, profteering is the only 'principle' at work.  TahitiNut   May-17-07 06:30 PM   #18 
              - Thankyou so much TahitiNut. That's a really good point.  Joanne98   May-17-07 06:35 PM   #20 
  - EVERYTHING proffered by this Administration has been a disaster  AzDar   May-17-07 06:27 PM   #17 
  - But what about the Dems? DEMS from OHIO DID NOT GET ELECTED  Joanne98   May-17-07 06:33 PM   #19 
  - We Arizonans, I believe,  PsN2Wind   May-17-07 08:35 PM   #26 
  - KICK!  Joanne98   May-17-07 07:28 PM   #21 
  - I've said before that importing labor  PsN2Wind   May-17-07 07:36 PM   #22 
  - Yep. It's time to TAX THE RICH to pay for it..  Joanne98   May-17-07 07:40 PM   #23 
  - KICK  Joanne98   May-17-07 07:46 PM   #24 
  - Game Over...  Kansas Wyatt   May-17-07 08:17 PM   #25 
  - Exactly! It's right out in the open.  Joanne98   May-17-07 08:48 PM   #28 
  - "It's an Illegal Employer Problem"  Opposite Reaction   May-17-07 09:27 PM   #29 
  - Kick!! n/t  AzDar   May-17-07 11:44 PM   #35 
  - What about the immigrants who come to live a better life in this country  gravity   May-18-07 12:08 PM   #45 
  - I want everyone in this country paid a living wage.  mycritters2   May-18-07 12:19 PM   #49 
  - Anyone whose job is dependent upon the "good graces" of an employer ...  TahitiNut   May-18-07 05:03 PM   #92 
  - Our political representatives should, first and foremost, be  sadiesworld   May-18-07 12:34 PM   #51 
  - Interesting thought. Those who feel they NEED to be here  mycritters2   May-18-07 12:43 PM   #55 
  - Why do immigrants who are here illegally deserve....  Zookeeper   May-18-07 12:42 PM   #54 
  - Exactly.  mycritters2   May-18-07 12:45 PM   #57 
  - I'm afraid that what could happen is a backlash against this bill, then a push to  Sapere aude   May-18-07 12:44 PM   #56 
     - You're AGAINST enforcement of laws against  mycritters2   May-18-07 12:47 PM   #58 
     - There are many here who consider enforcing the law against  pampango   May-18-07 01:19 PM   #62 
     - Why would it be a disappearance of immigrants?  Zookeeper   May-18-07 01:55 PM   #71 
     - They won't disappear. They will go underground even more.  Sapere aude   May-18-07 02:18 PM   #77 
     - You are right. I should have been clearer in stating that it would  pampango   May-18-07 03:04 PM   #88 
     - Huh?  High Plains   May-18-07 02:17 PM   #76 
        - That may be a crass way to put it, but if you read these immigration  pampango   May-18-07 03:11 PM   #90 
     - There is already a black market for labor  gravity   May-18-07 02:11 PM   #75 
     - you're actually AFRAID that if we enforce the law, illegals might peaceably repatriate themselves?  NorthernSpy   May-19-07 05:26 AM   #96 
  - and round, and round it goes..  stillcool47   May-18-07 12:17 PM   #47 
  - The people getting "Amnesty" on this is the businesses  Norquist Nemesis   May-18-07 01:16 PM   #61 
  - Tell your congresscritters. I have. I've made it clear that  mycritters2   May-18-07 01:22 PM   #63 
  - MY congresscritter is a Con in a very safe district  Norquist Nemesis   May-18-07 01:25 PM   #64 
  - DING, DING, DING, DING, we've got a winner  nadinbrzezinski   May-18-07 02:46 PM   #85 
  - I'm probably completely off track here  jdiggity   May-18-07 02:21 PM   #78 
  - How many times do I have to explain to people who  nadinbrzezinski   May-18-07 02:46 PM   #84 
  - Never before in the history of the world has a country...  bamacrat   May-18-07 03:02 PM   #87 
  - Ahem, Rome  nadinbrzezinski   May-18-07 03:05 PM   #89 
     - True, I meant to add that.  bamacrat   May-18-07 08:02 PM   #94 
  - it's always "jam tomorrow" when it comes to enforcing our immigration laws...  NorthernSpy   May-19-07 04:39 AM   #95 

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