mjane
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Thu Sep-09-10 12:38 AM
Response to Reply #82 |
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Edited on Thu Sep-09-10 12:43 AM by mjane
Here's a quote from the decision
"Burning a cross in the United States is inextricably intertwined with the history of the Ku Klux Klan, which, following its formation in 1866, imposed a reign of terror throughout the South, whipping, threatening, and murdering blacks, southern whites who disagreed with the Klan, and "carpetbagger" northern whites. The Klan has often used cross burnings as a tool of intimidation and a threat of impending violence, although such burnings have also remained potent symbols of shared group identity and ideology, serving as a central feature of Klan gatherings."
That's a NEXUS. It shows a CONNECTION between the act of burning a cross and violence. "Inextricably intertwined" = nexus. Actually, it equals a strong nexus.
There is a nexus between cross burning and impending violence
There is NOT a nexus between Quran burning and impending violence.
If there was a history of Quran burning in the US that was connected (iow a nexus) with impending violence, then we'd have a different story here.
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| -Just heard a caller on Randi Rhodes who said he Googled "cross burning illegal" |
gateley |
Sep-08-10 09:31 PM |
#0 |
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Yes. |
Sinistrous |
Sep-08-10 09:33 PM |
#1 |
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Actually, no. |
Common Sense Party |
Sep-08-10 09:50 PM |
#8 |
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You're both right. |
rucky |
Sep-08-10 10:12 PM |
#19 |
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From what I gather |
Canuckistanian |
Sep-08-10 09:36 PM |
#2 |
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I guess that makes sense -- but too bad. People can be arrested for other |
gateley |
Sep-08-10 09:43 PM |
#4 |
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It is NOT illegal to burn a cross |
mjane |
Sep-08-10 11:24 PM |
#59 |
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then, I'd love to see him frog marched to jail |
WhiteTara |
Sep-08-10 10:01 PM |
#11 |
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That won't work either |
ProgressiveProfessor |
Sep-08-10 10:06 PM |
#14 |
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You do not know that. Any person can file a lawsuit |
sabrina 1 |
Sep-09-10 10:54 AM |
#96 |
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You've really got to stop playing lawyer. |
COLGATE4 |
Sep-09-10 12:26 PM |
#97 |
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I'm not playing. Are you? I think this is serious, not a game. |
sabrina 1 |
Sep-09-10 12:38 PM |
#98 |
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I hope so. I heard it too, but |
Cleita |
Sep-08-10 09:37 PM |
#3 |
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Check out Canuckistanian's response above. But I'm hoping that maybe they |
gateley |
Sep-08-10 10:00 PM |
#9 |
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Cross burning per se cannot be proscribed by statute |
depakid |
Sep-08-10 09:47 PM |
#5 |
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I caught that part (by Randi) after I posted. Interesting. And, I think pretty |
gateley |
Sep-08-10 10:02 PM |
#12 |
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Well, in the court case the yahoos tried to burn a cross in their African American neighbor's yard |
aikoaiko |
Sep-08-10 09:48 PM |
#6 |
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Someone on TV said that burning crosses |
Bitwit1234 |
Sep-08-10 09:48 PM |
#7 |
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I heard the part about him not being able to get a burn permit or something |
gateley |
Sep-08-10 10:05 PM |
#13 |
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Also applies to identifiable groups of people |
depakid |
Sep-08-10 10:10 PM |
#17 |
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True, but without a law banning it per se, there is nothing illegal about what is planned |
ProgressiveProfessor |
Sep-08-10 10:30 PM |
#32 |
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As far as we know... |
depakid |
Sep-08-10 10:37 PM |
#36 |
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Doubtful...this is really about sacrilege, not threats. Its designed to draw a response |
ProgressiveProfessor |
Sep-08-10 10:40 PM |
#40 |
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No, it wouldn't |
mjane |
Sep-08-10 11:26 PM |
#60 |
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Do you actually have an informed viewpoint? |
depakid |
Sep-08-10 11:32 PM |
#65 |
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Mine is based on case law |
mjane |
Sep-08-10 11:37 PM |
#69 |
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You must have missed the previous posts |
depakid |
Sep-09-10 12:04 AM |
#75 |
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There is no way |
mjane |
Sep-09-10 12:10 AM |
#76 |
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No reason whatsoever that flag burning with intent to intimidate couldn't be outlawed! |
depakid |
Sep-09-10 12:19 AM |
#78 |
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There has to be some nexus |
mjane |
Sep-09-10 12:26 AM |
#80 |
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Virginia v. Black doesn't mention a nexus |
depakid |
Sep-09-10 12:33 AM |
#82 |
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Yes it does |
mjane |
Sep-09-10 12:38 AM |
#84 |
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There certainly is such a connection in my hypothetical (which you responded to) |
depakid |
Sep-09-10 12:48 AM |
#86 |
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ok, i get you now |
mjane |
Sep-09-10 12:54 AM |
#87 |
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We don't know if there's a threat or not as the "event" hasn't occurred yet |
depakid |
Sep-09-10 12:55 AM |
#88 |
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Yes we do |
mjane |
Sep-09-10 01:02 AM |
#90 |
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We have no idea what this guy or any other speaker's going to say or do! |
depakid |
Sep-09-10 01:08 AM |
#91 |
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It would |
mjane |
Sep-09-10 01:18 AM |
#92 |
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Mostly on the same page except that the standard of intent to intimidate |
depakid |
Sep-09-10 01:31 AM |
#94 |
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right. my community doesn't allow leaf burning. i don't know about |
orleans |
Sep-09-10 12:17 AM |
#77 |
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I cannot believe you people want someone arrested for free expression! |
Codeine |
Sep-08-10 10:00 PM |
#10 |
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Maybe YOU can cope with this |
Canuckistanian |
Sep-08-10 10:06 PM |
#15 |
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Then they have a serious fucking problem. |
Codeine |
Sep-08-10 10:13 PM |
#20 |
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What you are arguing for is the heckler's veto, its not a side I would want to be on |
ProgressiveProfessor |
Sep-08-10 10:18 PM |
#23 |
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We can condemn it all we want |
mjane |
Sep-09-10 12:00 AM |
#74 |
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"But the INTERNATIONAL Muslim community CAN'T. And that means a whole lot of hurt for Americans..." |
smalll |
Sep-09-10 01:30 AM |
#93 |
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+100 nt |
Skip Intro |
Sep-08-10 10:09 PM |
#16 |
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I was thinking about the repercussions in the Muslim communities. |
gateley |
Sep-08-10 10:12 PM |
#18 |
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To put it in simple terms, people are going to die over this |
Canuckistanian |
Sep-08-10 10:17 PM |
#22 |
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Book-burning will not cause that. |
Codeine |
Sep-08-10 10:20 PM |
#24 |
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I beleive it will. Its a provacative sacrelidge and intemational islam does not react well to it |
ProgressiveProfessor |
Sep-08-10 10:28 PM |
#28 |
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This isn't a simple "book-burning" |
Canuckistanian |
Sep-08-10 10:29 PM |
#30 |
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Yes it is a simple "book-burning." |
Codeine |
Sep-08-10 10:34 PM |
#33 |
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So, people in other countries should die for your freedoms? |
Canuckistanian |
Sep-08-10 10:46 PM |
# |
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Blame will be on those commiting the violence, not the Florida nut cases, at least here in the US |
ProgressiveProfessor |
Sep-08-10 10:49 PM |
#47 |
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Oh, I realize that |
Canuckistanian |
Sep-08-10 11:09 PM |
#52 |
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It never was purely an American issue if the nut bags go forward with their plans |
ProgressiveProfessor |
Sep-08-10 11:18 PM |
#55 |
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My freedoms are not really the problem here, are they? |
Codeine |
Sep-08-10 11:15 PM |
#53 |
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I agree 100% |
mjane |
Sep-08-10 11:29 PM |
#62 |
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It seems to me that |
verges |
Sep-08-10 11:31 PM |
#63 |
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Reasonable reactions are one thing. |
Codeine |
Sep-08-10 11:33 PM |
#68 |
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But it is a reasonable assumption that |
verges |
Sep-08-10 11:53 PM |
#72 |
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So you are willing to accept the Heckler's Veto and sacrifice principle in the process? |
ProgressiveProfessor |
Sep-09-10 10:46 AM |
#95 |
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Heckler Schmeckler. |
verges |
Sep-09-10 09:51 PM |
#99 |
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You are right, its a deliberately provocative sacrilege |
ProgressiveProfessor |
Sep-08-10 10:35 PM |
#35 |
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Targeting and killing Americans |
Mz Pip |
Sep-08-10 10:38 PM |
#38 |
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Look what happened over some cartoons even in countries where they were not published |
ProgressiveProfessor |
Sep-08-10 10:42 PM |
#42 |
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Not lonely. I agree with Mz Pip. nt |
riderinthestorm |
Sep-08-10 10:54 PM |
#49 |
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As do I and many here, but we are not the ones who believe it was intentional |
ProgressiveProfessor |
Sep-08-10 11:06 PM |
#51 |
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I do too. |
mjane |
Sep-08-10 11:31 PM |
#64 |
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Unfortunately extremists |
Mz Pip |
Sep-08-10 11:00 PM |
#50 |
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Its a principle issue and for most Americans, it trumps most other considerations |
ProgressiveProfessor |
Sep-08-10 10:21 PM |
#26 |
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I'm really torn on this one -- as I often am in many situations. My initial, deep |
gateley |
Sep-08-10 10:30 PM |
#31 |
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I agree |
Mz Pip |
Sep-08-10 10:48 PM |
#46 |
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We can give a damn |
mjane |
Sep-08-10 11:28 PM |
#61 |
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Does this mean that |
verges |
Sep-08-10 11:46 PM |
#71 |
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you haven't been reading much here then |
mjane |
Sep-08-10 11:56 PM |
#73 |
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Jayzus, the Nazis in Skokie. I vividly remember that fight. |
riderinthestorm |
Sep-08-10 10:20 PM |
#25 |
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OMG, a voice of friggin reason! |
Codeine |
Sep-08-10 10:22 PM |
#27 |
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The Nazis in Skokie are far more analogous to the Quran burning than anything else |
riderinthestorm |
Sep-08-10 10:42 PM |
#41 |
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No. |
TexasObserver |
Sep-08-10 10:16 PM |
#21 |
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But the city has told the pastor that there is city ordinance regarding fires |
Tx4obama |
Sep-08-10 10:28 PM |
#29 |
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And the FD will be on-site to extinguish--immediately--any fire that is started |
pinboy3niner |
Sep-08-10 10:34 PM |
#34 |
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I doubt it would do any good internationally and I also think that is what he wants |
ProgressiveProfessor |
Sep-08-10 10:37 PM |
#37 |
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I disagree - I think it would make a statement that while his civil rights weren't |
gateley |
Sep-08-10 10:43 PM |
#43 |
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It would be matrydom for him to many in the US |
ProgressiveProfessor |
Sep-08-10 10:46 PM |
#45 |
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That would probably be the best possible outcome. The minute they light the |
gateley |
Sep-08-10 10:38 PM |
#39 |
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And the First Amendment gets thrown out the window? |
riderinthestorm |
Sep-08-10 10:52 PM |
#48 |
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Indeed. Respecting freedom of expression regarding religion is paramount. |
TexasObserver |
Sep-08-10 11:16 PM |
#54 |
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That would be anathema to what America stands for. |
Codeine |
Sep-08-10 11:18 PM |
#56 |
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"unless the starting of a fire itself is a crime" is what I wrote. |
TexasObserver |
Sep-08-10 10:46 PM |
#44 |
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Is it a misdemeanor |
mjane |
Sep-08-10 11:33 PM |
#67 |
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Not only is there no law |
mjane |
Sep-08-10 11:32 PM |
#66 |
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I concur with your constitutional analysis in this thread. |
TexasObserver |
Sep-09-10 12:21 AM |
#79 |
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I think we stand together |
mjane |
Sep-09-10 12:27 AM |
#81 |
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The hysteria to stop him seems oblivious to the constitutional issue. |
TexasObserver |
Sep-09-10 12:37 AM |
#83 |
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Yes, and many countries |
mjane |
Sep-09-10 12:40 AM |
#85 |
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Burning a cross in and of itself is not a crime |
Hugabear |
Sep-08-10 11:21 PM |
#57 |
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The Klan does cross burnings fairly regularly. |
Codeine |
Sep-08-10 11:23 PM |
#58 |
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Err sort of |
ProgressiveProfessor |
Sep-08-10 11:40 PM |
#70 |
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It's illegal to burn them on someone else's yard. If anyone burns a Quran on my yard, I'm |
McCamy Taylor |
Sep-09-10 12:57 AM |
#89 |