Democratic Underground - You know what? I'll do you one better.

Reply #32: You know what? I'll do you one better. [View All]

Nicholas D Wolfwood

(1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore

Tue Aug-31-10 01:53 PM
Response to Reply #25

32. You know what? I'll do you one better.

From a series of U.S. Department of Education data tables, with the information populated from the Schools and Staffing Survey, which is filled out by schools themselves each year.

http://nces.ed.gov/surveys/sass/tables/sass_2004_01.asp
http://nces.ed.gov/surveys/sass/tables/state_2004_40.as...

Average number of public school teachers in public school districts who were dismissed in the previous year or did not have their contracts renewed based on poor performance, by years of teaching experience, and state: 3.1 (emphasis mine to point out that this is the number, not percentage)

There are 3.7 million teachers in 15,500 districts. If an average of 3.1 of them are fired in each school district for poor performance, that means only 1.29% of all teachers in any given year are deemed unfit to be teachers.

There is no profession or group of people in the entire world for which I can say that 98.7% of them are doing a good job. That is damn near criminal in a country where we have as many students as we do dropping out and unable to even read at grade level.

Like I said, pro-forma rubber stamp.

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-Will an evaluation system for teachers be flawed ?	UndertheOcean	Aug-31-10 11:49 AM	#0
- Yeah I'm kind of amused that teachers are now telling us tests and scores have no value.	dkf	Aug-31-10 11:51 AM	#1
- give the teachers a test	zipplewrath	Aug-31-10 11:53 AM	#2
- I'm accountable for the training I give others...	JuniperLea	Aug-31-10 11:55 AM	#4
- But are you training adults, because that's really a different situation.	GreenPartyVoter	Aug-31-10 12:00 PM	#5
- Barely out of college, most of them...	JuniperLea	Aug-31-10 12:08 PM	#8
- Which is why I did have to take 4 years in college to be trained for it	joeglow3	Aug-31-10 12:12 PM	#11
- And teachers are "accountable"	zipplewrath	Aug-31-10 12:05 PM	#7
- Why isn't it a teacher's responsibility to get kids to class and engaged?	JuniperLea	Aug-31-10 12:10 PM	#9
- It is PART of their job	zipplewrath	Aug-31-10 12:42 PM	#23
- Actually, I have 177 students now.	Catshrink	Sep-02-10 05:13 PM	#105
- What does "get kids to class" mean?	WinkyDink	Aug-31-10 02:42 PM	#41
- JuniperLea, let me tell you a story.	JDPriestly	Sep-01-10 02:13 PM	#75
- I agree	joeglow3	Aug-31-10 12:13 PM	#12
- Dunno about individually	zipplewrath	Aug-31-10 12:39 PM	#21
- There is another problem.	JDPriestly	Sep-01-10 02:18 PM	#76
- I don't agree with "academic freedom" in grade schools.	joeglow3	Sep-01-10 02:41 PM	#78
- Academic freedom is especially important in grade schools today	JDPriestly	Sep-01-10 03:27 PM	#84
- I see that as a district issue	joeglow3	Sep-01-10 05:12 PM	#85
- Well, bully for Private Enterprise!	WinkyDink	Aug-31-10 02:41 PM	#40
- Still not the same thing.	Igel	Aug-31-10 09:35 PM	#53
- Having smart teachers is not the end goal. Having smart students is.	dkf	Aug-31-10 12:01 PM	#6
- Ummm, welcome to EVERY job in America	joeglow3	Aug-31-10 12:11 PM	#10
- My boss isn't graded on how smart I am	zipplewrath	Aug-31-10 12:40 PM	#22
- Your boss' job also isn't to improve your academic achievement.	Nicholas D Wolfwood	Aug-31-10 01:28 PM	#31
- My boss's job is to improve my technical achievement	joeglow3	Aug-31-10 10:14 PM	#55
- And students aren't employees. They are a product, as far as our education system is	uncommon	Sep-01-10 01:40 PM	#73
- Give the politicians the test first and PUBLISH THE RESULTS!	JCMach1	Sep-01-10 01:37 PM	#72
- THAT? Is the #1 Anti-Teacher Problem. Thank you for finally expressing it for one and all.	WinkyDink	Aug-31-10 02:40 PM	#39
- They have diagnostic value.	rucky	Sep-01-10 08:43 AM	#60
- Test the students....that IS the teacher's grade.	madfloridian	Aug-31-10 11:55 AM	#3
- Why not do it like corporations do?	Taverner	Aug-31-10 12:15 PM	#13
- That's actually similar to what is being done now,	MadHound	Aug-31-10 12:17 PM	#14
- I don't see a problem with the teachers then	Taverner	Aug-31-10 12:19 PM	#15
- There are bad teachers, no doubt,	MadHound	Aug-31-10 12:23 PM	#16
- We spend more than anyone in the world on education as a percentage of our GDP	Nicholas D Wolfwood	Aug-31-10 12:30 PM	#19
- Well, I would have to disagree with you,	MadHound	Aug-31-10 12:47 PM	#24
- I would certainly agree that the funding needs to be more equitable.	Nicholas D Wolfwood	Aug-31-10 01:16 PM	#27
- OK, thanks, you don't need to say one more thing,	MadHound	Aug-31-10 02:08 PM	#33
- Pray tell - what's so wrong with TFA?	Nicholas D Wolfwood	Aug-31-10 02:23 PM	#36
- Two years and they are out of the profession.	kwassa	Sep-01-10 10:58 AM	#63
- On the first part in your title: So what?	Nicholas D Wolfwood	Sep-01-10 11:10 AM	#65
- Consistency is important.	kwassa	Sep-01-10 11:43 AM	#67
- Ideologue?	Nicholas D Wolfwood	Sep-01-10 12:00 PM	#68
- This whole movement is about idealogy	kwassa	Sep-01-10 01:22 PM	#69
- And the response to the reform movement is that teachers can't be blamed for anything.	Nicholas D Wolfwood	Sep-01-10 01:27 PM	#70
- So you are in policy, but haven't taught yourself?	kwassa	Sep-01-10 02:49 PM	#80
- Prove your claims.	Nicholas D Wolfwood	Sep-01-10 02:53 PM	#81
- Your attitude is revealing.	kwassa	Sep-01-10 03:14 PM	#82
- Wow - you don't know what a fact is, do you?	Nicholas D Wolfwood	Sep-01-10 03:20 PM	#83
- You are misusing the word "anecdote".	kwassa	Sep-01-10 08:41 PM	#86
- "Anecdotal Evidence"	Nicholas D Wolfwood	Sep-02-10 08:23 AM	#91
- Oh we spend a lot	Taverner	Aug-31-10 05:51 PM	#51
- +1000	Recursion	Sep-01-10 02:47 PM	#79
- Administrators are overpaid and have to justify their salaries.	JDPriestly	Sep-01-10 02:23 PM	#77
- Yeah, and in most states, 95+% of teachers reach "satisfactory or better"	Nicholas D Wolfwood	Aug-31-10 12:26 PM	#17
- Wow, where are you getting these "facts"?	MadHound	Aug-31-10 12:49 PM	#25
- How about you provide a fact for a change?	Nicholas D Wolfwood	Aug-31-10 01:20 PM	#29
- You know what? I'll do you one better.	Nicholas D Wolfwood	Aug-31-10 01:53 PM	#32
- Thank you for using facts to back your argument.	Joe Fields	Aug-31-10 02:09 PM	#34
- I'd just love to get a single fact - bogus or otherwise - in return!	Nicholas D Wolfwood	Aug-31-10 02:25 PM	#37
- Check the bibliography in...	YvonneCa	Sep-01-10 08:55 PM	#87
- Diane Ravitch is a profiteering hack.	Nicholas D Wolfwood	Sep-02-10 08:26 AM	#93
- I had a feeling you had heard...	YvonneCa	Sep-02-10 01:51 PM	#95
- Yeah, and I think it's pretty clear how I feel about it and her. (nt)	Nicholas D Wolfwood	Sep-02-10 02:16 PM	#98
- You're right.	Igel	Aug-31-10 10:11 PM	#54
- It's not always the teacher's fault the students can't read	Taverner	Aug-31-10 03:44 PM	#48
- It's a teacher's fault for advancing them.	Nicholas D Wolfwood	Aug-31-10 03:53 PM	#49
- And again, anyone would get the same results given the conditions	Taverner	Aug-31-10 05:49 PM	#50
- Have YOU ever been to an inner city school?	Nicholas D Wolfwood	Sep-01-10 08:15 AM	#58
- Come to Oakland, CA	Taverner	Sep-01-10 10:28 AM	#61
- Come to LA, DC, or NYC. (nt)	Nicholas D Wolfwood	Sep-01-10 11:03 AM	#64
- Well at this point its he said he said	Taverner	Sep-01-10 11:12 AM	#66
- ...	YvonneCa	Sep-01-10 08:59 PM	#89
- In 24 years as a teacher, I never had the power...	YvonneCa	Sep-01-10 08:57 PM	#88
- I call BS on that.	Nicholas D Wolfwood	Sep-02-10 08:25 AM	#92
- Call it whatever you wish. It's the truth and...	YvonneCa	Sep-02-10 01:54 PM	#96
- Corporations use "students and parents"? Not even a close comparison.	WinkyDink	Aug-31-10 03:06 PM	#44
- Jeez, do I have to spell everything out for you?	Taverner	Aug-31-10 03:43 PM	#47
- The evaluation system for students is flawed	Starry Messenger	Aug-31-10 12:27 PM	#18
- There's no such thing as a perfect evaluation system for anything.	Nicholas D Wolfwood	Aug-31-10 12:32 PM	#20
- ASSUME...makes an...	YvonneCa	Sep-01-10 09:00 PM	#90
- I didn't even use the word "assume", but thanks for playing.	Nicholas D Wolfwood	Sep-02-10 08:26 AM	#94
- You made two assumptions without using the...	YvonneCa	Sep-02-10 02:05 PM	#97
- I never said or implied that evaluations aren't conducted.	Nicholas D Wolfwood	Sep-02-10 02:18 PM	#99
- I'm sick. Should have...	YvonneCa	Sep-02-10 03:13 PM	#101
- They don't want to hear that...	Imajika	Aug-31-10 12:54 PM	#26
- It is about wages and benefits and other kinds of resources for schools	EFerrari	Aug-31-10 01:26 PM	#30
- I strongly suspect that you are correct in your suspicions.	Joe Fields	Aug-31-10 02:12 PM	#35
- They real problem with evaluation	Scruffy1	Aug-31-10 02:36 PM	#38
- For your edification: THERE IS NO PRIVATE SECTOR EQUIVALENT TO TEACHING CHILDREN.	WinkyDink	Aug-31-10 02:43 PM	#42
- I thought Obama and Duncan were replacing everyone WITH private sector teachers	Nicholas D Wolfwood	Aug-31-10 03:03 PM	#43
- You are confused. The TfA teachers are still going to TEACH CHILDREN. There is no "industry"	WinkyDink	Aug-31-10 03:08 PM	#45
- I'm not confused by anything.	Nicholas D Wolfwood	Aug-31-10 03:14 PM	#46
- Teachers have been the biggest critics of the way children are evalutated.n/t	EFerrari	Aug-31-10 01:19 PM	#28
- So you want to compound the flawed evaluation of students...	LostInAnomie	Aug-31-10 06:01 PM	#52
- I'm just curious - does anyone other than me think parents have at least as much	dflprincess	Aug-31-10 10:16 PM	#56
- Anybody who knows anything about how standardized tests work.	LWolf	Sep-01-10 08:20 AM	#59
- Of course. But we all know this country is full of horrible parents	ecstatic	Sep-01-10 10:38 AM	#62
- unrecced for sheer stupidity	proud2BlibKansan	Aug-31-10 10:20 PM	#57
- I evaluate employees on a daily basis...	LanternWaste	Sep-01-10 01:33 PM	#71
- Evaluation has to be systematic.	JDPriestly	Sep-01-10 01:58 PM	#74
- By definition, a teacher is there to improve student achievement.	Nicholas D Wolfwood	Sep-02-10 02:20 PM	#100
- What if that was not what was measured? Under NCLB...	YvonneCa	Sep-02-10 03:27 PM	#103
- We've covered this ground before, Yvonne.	Nicholas D Wolfwood	Sep-03-10 04:52 AM	#108
- I come back to it because the debate is important. When you say things like this....	YvonneCa	Sep-03-10 12:45 PM	#113
- Edited to add this (brace yourself)...	YvonneCa	Sep-03-10 01:33 PM	#116
- Oh really?	End Of The Road	Sep-02-10 04:14 PM	#104
- No consequences for the student?!	Nicholas D Wolfwood	Sep-03-10 04:51 AM	#107
- Not for kids who already live in poverty. nt	End Of The Road	Sep-03-10 06:35 AM	#109
- Yeah, because consigning them to a life of birth-to-death poverty isn't a consequence.	Nicholas D Wolfwood	Sep-03-10 06:42 AM	#110
- So you're saying it's the teachers' job to end poverty?	End Of The Road	Sep-03-10 06:52 AM	#111
- /facepalm	Nicholas D Wolfwood	Sep-03-10 07:49 AM	#112
- Key word here is 'impart'...	YvonneCa	Sep-03-10 12:54 PM	#115
- And that was my original point, too.	End Of The Road	Sep-03-10 01:36 PM	#117
- Nick is too ...	YvonneCa	Sep-03-10 01:41 PM	#118
- But 10 year old kids don't realize...	YvonneCa	Sep-03-10 12:48 PM	#114
- I do. Thank you for making this...	YvonneCa	Sep-02-10 03:18 PM	#102
- All I see lately are pea-brained jerks who have no business setting up teacher evaluation systems	Swamp Rat	Sep-02-10 05:19 PM	#106

Reply #32: You know what? I'll do you one better. [View All]