dkf
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Tue Aug-31-10 12:01 PM
Response to Reply #2 |
| 6. Having smart teachers is not the end goal. Having smart students is. |
| -Will an evaluation system for teachers be flawed ? |
UndertheOcean |
Aug-31-10 11:49 AM |
#0 |
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Yeah I'm kind of amused that teachers are now telling us tests and scores have no value. |
dkf |
Aug-31-10 11:51 AM |
#1 |
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give the teachers a test |
zipplewrath |
Aug-31-10 11:53 AM |
#2 |
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I'm accountable for the training I give others... |
JuniperLea |
Aug-31-10 11:55 AM |
#4 |
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But are you training adults, because that's really a different situation. |
GreenPartyVoter |
Aug-31-10 12:00 PM |
#5 |
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Barely out of college, most of them... |
JuniperLea |
Aug-31-10 12:08 PM |
#8 |
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Which is why I did have to take 4 years in college to be trained for it |
joeglow3 |
Aug-31-10 12:12 PM |
#11 |
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And teachers are "accountable" |
zipplewrath |
Aug-31-10 12:05 PM |
#7 |
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Why isn't it a teacher's responsibility to get kids to class and engaged? |
JuniperLea |
Aug-31-10 12:10 PM |
#9 |
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It is PART of their job |
zipplewrath |
Aug-31-10 12:42 PM |
#23 |
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Actually, I have 177 students now. |
Catshrink |
Sep-02-10 05:13 PM |
#105 |
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What does "get kids to class" mean? |
WinkyDink |
Aug-31-10 02:42 PM |
#41 |
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JuniperLea, let me tell you a story. |
JDPriestly |
Sep-01-10 02:13 PM |
#75 |
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I agree |
joeglow3 |
Aug-31-10 12:13 PM |
#12 |
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Dunno about individually |
zipplewrath |
Aug-31-10 12:39 PM |
#21 |
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There is another problem. |
JDPriestly |
Sep-01-10 02:18 PM |
#76 |
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I don't agree with "academic freedom" in grade schools. |
joeglow3 |
Sep-01-10 02:41 PM |
#78 |
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Academic freedom is especially important in grade schools today |
JDPriestly |
Sep-01-10 03:27 PM |
#84 |
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I see that as a district issue |
joeglow3 |
Sep-01-10 05:12 PM |
#85 |
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Well, bully for Private Enterprise! |
WinkyDink |
Aug-31-10 02:41 PM |
#40 |
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Still not the same thing. |
Igel |
Aug-31-10 09:35 PM |
#53 |
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Having smart teachers is not the end goal. Having smart students is. |
dkf |
Aug-31-10 12:01 PM |
#6 |
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Ummm, welcome to EVERY job in America |
joeglow3 |
Aug-31-10 12:11 PM |
#10 |
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My boss isn't graded on how smart I am |
zipplewrath |
Aug-31-10 12:40 PM |
#22 |
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Your boss' job also isn't to improve your academic achievement. |
Nicholas D Wolfwood |
Aug-31-10 01:28 PM |
#31 |
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My boss's job is to improve my technical achievement |
joeglow3 |
Aug-31-10 10:14 PM |
#55 |
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And students aren't employees. They are a product, as far as our education system is |
uncommon |
Sep-01-10 01:40 PM |
#73 |
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Give the politicians the test first and PUBLISH THE RESULTS! |
JCMach1 |
Sep-01-10 01:37 PM |
#72 |
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THAT? Is the #1 Anti-Teacher Problem. Thank you for finally expressing it for one and all. |
WinkyDink |
Aug-31-10 02:40 PM |
#39 |
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They have diagnostic value. |
rucky |
Sep-01-10 08:43 AM |
#60 |
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Test the students....that IS the teacher's grade. |
madfloridian |
Aug-31-10 11:55 AM |
#3 |
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Why not do it like corporations do? |
Taverner |
Aug-31-10 12:15 PM |
#13 |
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That's actually similar to what is being done now, |
MadHound |
Aug-31-10 12:17 PM |
#14 |
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I don't see a problem with the teachers then |
Taverner |
Aug-31-10 12:19 PM |
#15 |
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There are bad teachers, no doubt, |
MadHound |
Aug-31-10 12:23 PM |
#16 |
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We spend more than anyone in the world on education as a percentage of our GDP |
Nicholas D Wolfwood |
Aug-31-10 12:30 PM |
#19 |
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Well, I would have to disagree with you, |
MadHound |
Aug-31-10 12:47 PM |
#24 |
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I would certainly agree that the funding needs to be more equitable. |
Nicholas D Wolfwood |
Aug-31-10 01:16 PM |
#27 |
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OK, thanks, you don't need to say one more thing, |
MadHound |
Aug-31-10 02:08 PM |
#33 |
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Pray tell - what's so wrong with TFA? |
Nicholas D Wolfwood |
Aug-31-10 02:23 PM |
#36 |
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Two years and they are out of the profession. |
kwassa |
Sep-01-10 10:58 AM |
#63 |
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On the first part in your title: So what? |
Nicholas D Wolfwood |
Sep-01-10 11:10 AM |
#65 |
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Consistency is important. |
kwassa |
Sep-01-10 11:43 AM |
#67 |
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Ideologue? |
Nicholas D Wolfwood |
Sep-01-10 12:00 PM |
#68 |
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This whole movement is about idealogy |
kwassa |
Sep-01-10 01:22 PM |
#69 |
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And the response to the reform movement is that teachers can't be blamed for anything. |
Nicholas D Wolfwood |
Sep-01-10 01:27 PM |
#70 |
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So you are in policy, but haven't taught yourself? |
kwassa |
Sep-01-10 02:49 PM |
#80 |
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Prove your claims. |
Nicholas D Wolfwood |
Sep-01-10 02:53 PM |
#81 |
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Your attitude is revealing. |
kwassa |
Sep-01-10 03:14 PM |
#82 |
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Wow - you don't know what a fact is, do you? |
Nicholas D Wolfwood |
Sep-01-10 03:20 PM |
#83 |
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You are misusing the word "anecdote". |
kwassa |
Sep-01-10 08:41 PM |
#86 |
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"Anecdotal Evidence" |
Nicholas D Wolfwood |
Sep-02-10 08:23 AM |
#91 |
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Oh we spend a lot |
Taverner |
Aug-31-10 05:51 PM |
#51 |
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+1000 |
Recursion |
Sep-01-10 02:47 PM |
#79 |
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Administrators are overpaid and have to justify their salaries. |
JDPriestly |
Sep-01-10 02:23 PM |
#77 |
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Yeah, and in most states, 95+% of teachers reach "satisfactory or better" |
Nicholas D Wolfwood |
Aug-31-10 12:26 PM |
#17 |
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Wow, where are you getting these "facts"? |
MadHound |
Aug-31-10 12:49 PM |
#25 |
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How about you provide a fact for a change? |
Nicholas D Wolfwood |
Aug-31-10 01:20 PM |
#29 |
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You know what? I'll do you one better. |
Nicholas D Wolfwood |
Aug-31-10 01:53 PM |
#32 |
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Thank you for using facts to back your argument. |
Joe Fields |
Aug-31-10 02:09 PM |
#34 |
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I'd just love to get a single fact - bogus or otherwise - in return! |
Nicholas D Wolfwood |
Aug-31-10 02:25 PM |
#37 |
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Check the bibliography in... |
YvonneCa |
Sep-01-10 08:55 PM |
#87 |
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Diane Ravitch is a profiteering hack. |
Nicholas D Wolfwood |
Sep-02-10 08:26 AM |
#93 |
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I had a feeling you had heard... |
YvonneCa |
Sep-02-10 01:51 PM |
#95 |
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Yeah, and I think it's pretty clear how I feel about it and her. (nt) |
Nicholas D Wolfwood |
Sep-02-10 02:16 PM |
#98 |
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You're right. |
Igel |
Aug-31-10 10:11 PM |
#54 |
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It's not always the teacher's fault the students can't read |
Taverner |
Aug-31-10 03:44 PM |
#48 |
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It's a teacher's fault for advancing them. |
Nicholas D Wolfwood |
Aug-31-10 03:53 PM |
#49 |
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And again, anyone would get the same results given the conditions |
Taverner |
Aug-31-10 05:49 PM |
#50 |
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Have YOU ever been to an inner city school? |
Nicholas D Wolfwood |
Sep-01-10 08:15 AM |
#58 |
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Come to Oakland, CA |
Taverner |
Sep-01-10 10:28 AM |
#61 |
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Come to LA, DC, or NYC. (nt) |
Nicholas D Wolfwood |
Sep-01-10 11:03 AM |
#64 |
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Well at this point its he said he said |
Taverner |
Sep-01-10 11:12 AM |
#66 |
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... |
YvonneCa |
Sep-01-10 08:59 PM |
#89 |
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In 24 years as a teacher, I never had the power... |
YvonneCa |
Sep-01-10 08:57 PM |
#88 |
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I call BS on that. |
Nicholas D Wolfwood |
Sep-02-10 08:25 AM |
#92 |
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Call it whatever you wish. It's the truth and... |
YvonneCa |
Sep-02-10 01:54 PM |
#96 |
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Corporations use "students and parents"? Not even a close comparison. |
WinkyDink |
Aug-31-10 03:06 PM |
#44 |
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Jeez, do I have to spell everything out for you? |
Taverner |
Aug-31-10 03:43 PM |
#47 |
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The evaluation system for students is flawed |
Starry Messenger |
Aug-31-10 12:27 PM |
#18 |
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There's no such thing as a perfect evaluation system for anything. |
Nicholas D Wolfwood |
Aug-31-10 12:32 PM |
#20 |
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ASSUME...makes an... |
YvonneCa |
Sep-01-10 09:00 PM |
#90 |
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I didn't even use the word "assume", but thanks for playing. |
Nicholas D Wolfwood |
Sep-02-10 08:26 AM |
#94 |
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You made two assumptions without using the... |
YvonneCa |
Sep-02-10 02:05 PM |
#97 |
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I never said or implied that evaluations aren't conducted. |
Nicholas D Wolfwood |
Sep-02-10 02:18 PM |
#99 |
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I'm sick. Should have... |
YvonneCa |
Sep-02-10 03:13 PM |
#101 |
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They don't want to hear that... |
Imajika |
Aug-31-10 12:54 PM |
#26 |
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It is about wages and benefits and other kinds of resources for schools |
EFerrari |
Aug-31-10 01:26 PM |
#30 |
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I strongly suspect that you are correct in your suspicions. |
Joe Fields |
Aug-31-10 02:12 PM |
#35 |
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They real problem with evaluation |
Scruffy1 |
Aug-31-10 02:36 PM |
#38 |
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For your edification: THERE IS NO PRIVATE SECTOR EQUIVALENT TO TEACHING CHILDREN. |
WinkyDink |
Aug-31-10 02:43 PM |
#42 |
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I thought Obama and Duncan were replacing everyone WITH private sector teachers |
Nicholas D Wolfwood |
Aug-31-10 03:03 PM |
#43 |
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You are confused. The TfA teachers are still going to TEACH CHILDREN. There is no "industry" |
WinkyDink |
Aug-31-10 03:08 PM |
#45 |
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I'm not confused by anything. |
Nicholas D Wolfwood |
Aug-31-10 03:14 PM |
#46 |
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Teachers have been the biggest critics of the way children are evalutated.n/t |
EFerrari |
Aug-31-10 01:19 PM |
#28 |
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So you want to compound the flawed evaluation of students... |
LostInAnomie |
Aug-31-10 06:01 PM |
#52 |
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I'm just curious - does anyone other than me think parents have at least as much |
dflprincess |
Aug-31-10 10:16 PM |
#56 |
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Anybody who knows anything about how standardized tests work. |
LWolf |
Sep-01-10 08:20 AM |
#59 |
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Of course. But we all know this country is full of horrible parents |
ecstatic |
Sep-01-10 10:38 AM |
#62 |
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unrecced for sheer stupidity |
proud2BlibKansan |
Aug-31-10 10:20 PM |
#57 |
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I evaluate employees on a daily basis... |
LanternWaste |
Sep-01-10 01:33 PM |
#71 |
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Evaluation has to be systematic. |
JDPriestly |
Sep-01-10 01:58 PM |
#74 |
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By definition, a teacher is there to improve student achievement. |
Nicholas D Wolfwood |
Sep-02-10 02:20 PM |
#100 |
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What if that was not what was measured? Under NCLB... |
YvonneCa |
Sep-02-10 03:27 PM |
#103 |
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We've covered this ground before, Yvonne. |
Nicholas D Wolfwood |
Sep-03-10 04:52 AM |
#108 |
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I come back to it because the debate is important. When you say things like this.... |
YvonneCa |
Sep-03-10 12:45 PM |
#113 |
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Edited to add this (brace yourself)... |
YvonneCa |
Sep-03-10 01:33 PM |
#116 |
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Oh really? |
End Of The Road |
Sep-02-10 04:14 PM |
#104 |
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No consequences for the student?! |
Nicholas D Wolfwood |
Sep-03-10 04:51 AM |
#107 |
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Not for kids who already live in poverty. nt |
End Of The Road |
Sep-03-10 06:35 AM |
#109 |
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Yeah, because consigning them to a life of birth-to-death poverty isn't a consequence. |
Nicholas D Wolfwood |
Sep-03-10 06:42 AM |
#110 |
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So you're saying it's the teachers' job to end poverty? |
End Of The Road |
Sep-03-10 06:52 AM |
#111 |
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/facepalm |
Nicholas D Wolfwood |
Sep-03-10 07:49 AM |
#112 |
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Key word here is 'impart'... |
YvonneCa |
Sep-03-10 12:54 PM |
#115 |
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And that was my original point, too. |
End Of The Road |
Sep-03-10 01:36 PM |
#117 |
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Nick is too ... |
YvonneCa |
Sep-03-10 01:41 PM |
#118 |
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But 10 year old kids don't realize... |
YvonneCa |
Sep-03-10 12:48 PM |
#114 |
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I do. Thank you for making this... |
YvonneCa |
Sep-02-10 03:18 PM |
#102 |
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All I see lately are pea-brained jerks who have no business setting up teacher evaluation systems |
Swamp Rat |
Sep-02-10 05:19 PM |
#106 |
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